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Mienshao
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
Nah. I'm using her on my UU team as I type lol.
EDIT: I'm talking about PO tiers. Sorry
My bad. As my edit is saying, I'm talking about PO tiers lol sorry
Is Hidden Power Ice needed? I just like switching to a bulky water to check Gliscor!
HP Ice both prevents Gliscor from hard countering Mienshao and can also work as a lure to pave the way for your physical pokes to break through the opposing team more easily. It's not always the best idea to rely on your bulky water to counter Gliscor, as they can easily be set-up bait for another poke on Gliscor's team (plus, hazards can prevent them from constantly switching in).
However HP Ice has become somewhat standard. It's almost always 4/5 of these moves:
HJK/HP Ice/Uturn/Stone Edge/Fake Out
Stone edge and Fake Out are the most interchangeable. Fake out is for priority and picking off fear/spear pokes and Stone edge is for flyers and Hjk resists/immunes not named golurk. I personally prefer HP Ice using a niave nature with max atack, speed, and 4 hp. However, how much special attack would it take to ohko a no hp and no sp def gliscor ?
Ive been using a Sub-Pass Mienshao lately, it good for getting a free switch for a Pokemon that needs it.
Mienshao@Flying Gem
4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly
Regenerator:
-Hi Jump Kick
-Acrobatics
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
Mienshao@Flying Gem
4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly
Regenerator:
-Hi Jump Kick
-Acrobatics
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
But on something so frail how do you keep the sub up though ?
similar to subpass jolteon in 4th gen, sub on predicted switch, attack or baton pass accordingly.
a lot of teams just don't have a reliable switch in to HJK, especially drag mag ones, a really brutal pokemon on occasion.
a lot of teams just don't have a reliable switch in to HJK, especially drag mag ones, a really brutal pokemon on occasion.
Ah. Good point. Thank you for the idea :)
if only this thing got Close Combat it would sweep like a beast
HJK actually hits harder than CC; it just has spotty accuracy.
Maybe he meant that we won't have to deal with pesky HJK misses anymore ;)
How much special attack investment does it take to kill a 12 hp 0 sp def gliscor with HP Ice ?
If I'm not mistaken, 4EVs since if I'm not mistaken, standard Fake Out/HJK/U-turn/HP Ice takes out Standard Gliscor after SR.
It takes a decent amount of investment to guarantee the 1hko. here's the calc:
250 Atk vs 186 Def & 354 HP (70 Base Power): 356 - 420 (100.56% - 118.64%)
He doesn't need EVs to 1hko after SR, but since protect is very common on poison heal gliscor, it can recover SR damage and potentially KO with another move.
250 Atk vs 186 Def & 354 HP (70 Base Power): 356 - 420 (100.56% - 118.64%)
He doesn't need EVs to 1hko after SR, but since protect is very common on poison heal gliscor, it can recover SR damage and potentially KO with another move.
I've been using Mienshao quite a bit recently. Regenerator makes it an excellent scout, but for some reason I really don't like it. Being forced to use a move as shitty as Hi Jump Kick is never a good thing, in my opinion. Something as frail as Mienshao can't afford to miss AND take crash damage, because then just about anything will KO it for sure.
Its movepool is also garbage. To get any form of coverage, it needs to use Hidden Power. That base 125 Attack is incredible, but when you have no form of respectable coverage in your physical moves and HAVE to run Hidden Power Ice to get any form of coverage, that's pretty shitty IMO.
I'm sticking with Infernape. Sure, it can't OHKO Chansey with Close Combat, but it's not like Chansey will get a chance to heal off the damage anyway. It still does OHKO Blissey with Close Combat - Blissey is far more common than Chansey anyway. Also, even though HJK has slightly higher base power, I will ALWAYS pick the Pokemon that has Close Combat in its movepool. I don't give a shit about any defense drops - I'd rather have that than take some nasty crash damage for missing. Also, would you rather hit all the time or miss 1/10th of the time AND lose 50% of your health for missing, your opponent switching into a Ghost-type, or your opponent using Protect? Not to mention, Infernape has better mixed attacking stats, ALSO has Fake Out and U-turn, a far better movepool, speed ties with Terrakion, and has far more viable sets than Mienshao. I particularly love this calc:
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Infernape Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 92.51% - 109.58% (fixed calc; PO's damage calculator blows)
That's with no weather. Mienshao can only dream of doing that. +2 LO Fire Punch also OHKOs Ferrothorn in the rain.
TL;DR: Infernape is better than Mienshao, hands down.
Its movepool is also garbage. To get any form of coverage, it needs to use Hidden Power. That base 125 Attack is incredible, but when you have no form of respectable coverage in your physical moves and HAVE to run Hidden Power Ice to get any form of coverage, that's pretty shitty IMO.
I'm sticking with Infernape. Sure, it can't OHKO Chansey with Close Combat, but it's not like Chansey will get a chance to heal off the damage anyway. It still does OHKO Blissey with Close Combat - Blissey is far more common than Chansey anyway. Also, even though HJK has slightly higher base power, I will ALWAYS pick the Pokemon that has Close Combat in its movepool. I don't give a shit about any defense drops - I'd rather have that than take some nasty crash damage for missing. Also, would you rather hit all the time or miss 1/10th of the time AND lose 50% of your health for missing, your opponent switching into a Ghost-type, or your opponent using Protect? Not to mention, Infernape has better mixed attacking stats, ALSO has Fake Out and U-turn, a far better movepool, speed ties with Terrakion, and has far more viable sets than Mienshao. I particularly love this calc:
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Infernape Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 92.51% - 109.58% (fixed calc; PO's damage calculator blows)
That's with no weather. Mienshao can only dream of doing that. +2 LO Fire Punch also OHKOs Ferrothorn in the rain.
TL;DR: Infernape is better than Mienshao, hands down.
Hi Jump Kick is also unreliable.
Also, a Swords Dance set.... With a movepool that terrible? Forget about it. Lucario outclasses it.
For fucks sake, why does it matter if Mienshao's movepool isn't that expansive!? It has such a fucking strong Hi Jump Kick that it doesn't really matter, and iit can run Stone Edge and Hidden Power Ice to hit everything that can take Hi Jump Kick. Lucario is also annoyingly slow, and weaker than Mienshao. You say that Mienshao has an unreliable STAB? than I can say Infernape takes a shit load of recoil and dies way too qucikly.
I also love this calc
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 91.6% - 107.8%
Mienshao is dealing pretty much the exact same amount of damage as Infernape.
Lucario has ExtremeSpeed and can get away with using an Adamant nature. I'm just saying, Lucario is a far better sweeper than Mienshao, and even Infernape is to a certain extent.
Also, try using SE/HP Ice to take down Jellicent. Good luck.
Dealing almost the same exact amount of damage with an unreliable move.
Unlike Hi Jump Kick, Fire Punch is reliable and Ferrothorn can't troll you with Protect to force you to take crash damage.
Infernape and Lucario both also have reliable Fighting STAB: Close Combat.
Also, you say that Infernape takes a shit load of recoil? If it uses Flare Blitz, yes. I was using Fire Punch in my calcs.