Project Metagame Workshop

I thought Neutralizing Gas and Ability Shield were placed on the hard banlist instead - in particular, especially with Ability Shield restricted or banned, Neutralizing Gas will swamp the meta if left restricted and if going Sketchmons or breaking the EV limit aren't enough to compensate. Are the two of them on the hard banlist or the Restricted List?

...Unless there are two levels of Restricted List based on how you're treating Last Respects? ...So Wonder Guard would be on Restricted List 1, where a ban break unlocks it for all mons, and Last Respects is on Restricted List 2 based on your earlier posts, where a ban break only unlocks it for legal learners (the set of legal learners changes depending on whether this draws from Gen 9 or Natdex). Is Neutralizing Gas on Restricted List 1, Restricted List 2, or the hard banlist, then? (I'm a big fan of making things simpler and using only Restricted List 1 and the Hard Banlist.)
I really did a bad job explaining, didn’t I?

Neutralizing Gas and Ability Shield are treated as if they were banned in Ubers- they can be ban broken, but your limit of one ban break restricts you to using Neutralizing Gas on only Pokémon that naturally have it, like Weezing. If you were to give it to, say, Koraidon, then a second (and not allowed) ban break would be used, since Neutralizing Gas Koraidon is not legal in Ubers. The Ability Shield is also still available, but it requires your ban break. By doing this, the Ability Shield can still be used, but more problematic combinations with it (such as Wonder Guard + Ability Shield) are no longer possible.

In summary, treat bans in this format as if they were added to the banlist in Ubers.

The Watchlist is not a restricted list. It is merely a list of things I’m concerned may be a problem. You could think of it as similar to a Pokémon being on a watchlist in Ubers- it isn’t banned or restricted yet, but it could be later. Right now, it is merely being watched. Neutralizing Gas used to be on here, but when it was, it was allowed through ban breaking (unless you used a Pokémon that naturally had it, like Weezing, in which case your ban break for the mentioned Weezing would still be available).

I’m probably going to have to rewrite part of my post

EDIT: here is my attempt to better clarify the rules:
The format is based on Ubers, but with a twist: any ban or illegality (something only possible through hacking or glitches) of a Pokémon is allowed once on each Pokémon of your team.

For example: Koraidon does not learn Shell Smash, but it can if you use cheats. If you decide to use your “ban break” this way, then your Shell Smash Koraidon would be allowed.

The following aspects of a Pokémon is allowed if you use your ban break on it: an illegal ability, an illegal move, the EV limit may be broken to allow 252 in everything, otherwise not allowed mechanics may be used (such as Last Respects and Baton Pass).

Other details: the Ability Shield and Neutralizing Gas are treated as if they were banned in Ubers. Calyrex-Shadow is unbanned. Alternate forms of Pokémon already in Scarlet/Violet (such as megas) are freed, and do not require a ban break.
 
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Healthmons

Premise: Your weight is an important issue and it should also be for your Pokemon as well. In this meta, Pokemon get a boost/nerf depending on their BMI.

Example:
:ss/Pheromosa:
BMI 13.88~
:ss/Machop:
BMI 24.375
:sv/Snorlax:
BMI 219.05
These Pokemon represent 3 different bodyweights. Pheromosa being below 18.5 is Underweight. Snorlax being above 24.9 (by a lot) is considered overweight (or over x5 Class 3 obese). Machop being inbetween 18.5 and 24.9 is considered healthy weight.
Pheromosa and Snorlax will get different buffs for being under/overweight respectfully as well as nerfs as well. Ideally underweight Pokemon being faster but frailer, whils overweight Pokemon become bulkier but slower.
Machop being at perfect health should ideally only be buffed in a kind of neutral way because surprisingly it’s really hard finding Pokemon at perfect health (like Gardevoir is actually an obese fuck at 30.25 BMI). Likely something like Machop getting 6.25% healing each turn or maybe having both boosts.


Metagame Changes:
:Dragapult:
Dragapult being underweight I feel would make it a bit worse. It already has a massive speed stat and outspeeds almost everything. Especially now that so many more Pokemon are considered obese or overweight. Making it frailer I’d say makes it a bit worse considering the speed only marginally helps it.

:Toxapex:
Buffed for sure. It’s at a healthy BMI so it’ll straight up be buffed. It’s slow and doesn’t hit hard anyways.

:Kingambit:
Well it’s slower but much harder to take down thanks to the added defenses. It could very easily get banned since it can bypass its speed with Sucker Punch, which against underweight targets is way stronger.


Questions:
-What exact values should the buff and nerfs be for under/overweight Pokemon? They could be direct multipliers or even stat stages too. Their could also be room for different mechanics like obese Pokemon being immune to phasing or unable to use priority, or both losing HP because they’re unhealthy (though that might be going too far).
-For Healthy Pokemon, what should their exact buffs be? I made a few suggestions like passive leftovers and getting only stat buffs, but would do you guys think?
-Should the BMI scaling change? I’m currently using the regular human BMI scale where healthy weight is between 18.5-24.9. In this case many Pokemon are considered obese, such as previously mentioned Gardevoir who was surprisingly obese.
 
Surprise Singles
The premise of this meta is simple. The match has a 50% chance of being singles, and a 50% chance of being doubles. As such, you must make sure your team is good in both formats.
Changes:
Moves like Protect and Follow Me will likely be seen less, as they are not very useful in singles, and moves like Ally Switch will probably disappear entirely.
Pokemon who only set up hazards, like Deoxys-Speed will probably fall off, as hazards are less useful in doubles.
Pokemon that will be good will likely be ones that excel in both formats, like Landorus-T, while pokemon who only excel in one, like Incineroar, or Weavile, will probably not be used.
Questions:
What pokemon could be banworthy?
What team archetypes will not be good, and what ones will remain?
 
Surprise Singles
The premise of this meta is simple. The match has a 50% chance of being singles, and a 50% chance of being doubles. As such, you must make sure your team is good in both formats.
Changes:
Moves like Protect and Follow Me will likely be seen less, as they are not very useful in singles, and moves like Ally Switch will probably disappear entirely.
Pokemon who only set up hazards, like Deoxys-Speed will probably fall off, as hazards are less useful in doubles.
Pokemon that will be good will likely be ones that excel in both formats, like Landorus-T, while pokemon who only excel in one, like Incineroar, or Weavile, will probably not be used.
Questions:
What pokemon could be banworthy?
What team archetypes will not be good, and what ones will remain?
I don’t think this could be programmable as a ladder. This sounds more like a funny tournament instead.
 
I think I have a concept that gives Pokemon new entirely different roles. I was inspired by Scalemons and came up with this formula.

(BST₁-HP₁)/(BST₂-HP₂) × stat = statf

If you're familiar with scale you'll have a general idea of how this works. But what does the subscript mean? "(BST₁-HP₁)" gives us the BST of the base mon, excepting HP. "(BST₂-HP₂)" gives us the same number, but for a separate Pokemon. This works in the same way that Scalemons does, which is giving a multiplier and applying it to a stat.

Where this format differs is that we use that scale multiplier, and apply it onto a different Pokemon's stats.

:ss/Great Tusk::ss/Regice:

The two Pokemon I used to work out the math, Great Tusk and Regice, will demonstrate how this works in a step-by-step process. Great Tusk will represent the stats noted by the 1 subscript, and Regice will represent the stats noted by the 2 subscript, as well as the stat variable.

(BST₁-HP₁)/(BST₂-HP₂) × stat = statf
(570-115)/(580-80) × stat = statf
455/500 × stat = statf
.91 × stat = statf

Now that we've found the multiplier, we can just apply it to all of Regice's stats.

Great Tusk: 115/131/131/53/53/87
Regice: 80/50/100/100/200/50
Multiplier = .91
Great Tusk redistributed: 115/45/91/91/182/45

This example I've given you would undoubtedly be worse than just using a regular Great Tusk. But you can apply this formula to any Pokemon. Some other things that keep Great Tusk's general distribution, but minmax them more for optimal play

:Bonsly: Bonsly
Before: 50/80/95/10/45/10
After: 115/151/180/18/85/18

:Sandshrew-Alola: Sandshrew-Alola
Before: 50/75/90/10/35/40
After: 115/136/18/63/72

:Stonjourner: Stonjourner
Before: 100/125/135/20/20/70
After: 115/153/166/24/24/86

This is the general gist of the metagame, but I believe that this does not leave room for plenty of creativity. I think that for a specific role, as long as any Pokemon has the appropriate tools, they will all choose one singular mon to fulfill that role. I think that every physical stall mon will want to be distributed like Nosepass, every specially defensive one will want to be one of the Chansey line, Sneasel for physical glass cannons, etc.

This is where I'd think that feedback is necessary. The concept so far I believe is simple. Should this concept be developed further?

Getting some other benefit from the Pokemon they're being redistributed into. I was thinking ability, but then I think it's too similar to Frantic Fusions. Should it be getting a singular move? Should it choose between getting a move or ability? Some secret, nefarious, third thing? Nothing?

Other Remarks
  • When applying the multiplier, round down. Because of this, the Pokemon will likely lose some BST when redistributed.
  • If this concept were ever to make it into a metagame, I assume it would have a PS command to calculate it, like /scale or /ff.
  • The only way I could imagine determining which mon you redistribute into is to put that Pokemon as the nickname.
  • I don't have a name for this concept. If you think that's the concept is worth it, suggest a name. Ideally something that can be used as a verb to describe the stat changes. Like Scalemons has scaled and FF has fused.
 
Hoopa Unbound (680-80 for 600) / Happiny (220-100 for 120) = 5

So a hoopa with capped stats in everything but HP, which is 100 (since it gets that from Happiny??)

Unless I've got it backwards, in which case Happiny's stats are 80/25/25/75/255/150???

I can't help but feel this particular concept is flawed (unless I'm totally misunderstanding the concept?)
 
Hoopa Unbound (680-80 for 600) / Happiny (220-100 for 120) = 5

So a hoopa with capped stats in everything but HP, which is 100 (since it gets that from Happiny??)

Unless I've got it backwards, in which case Happiny's stats are 80/25/25/75/255/150???

I can't help but feel this particular concept is flawed (unless I'm totally misunderstanding the concept?)
I think the stats are
Hoopa’s HP
Happiny’s other stats multiplied by 5
So it should be 80/25/25/75/255/150 like you said.
 
Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.

0: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe(unchanged)
1: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD
2: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA
3: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def
4: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk
5: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP

Example:
:sv/clodsire:
1 (Clodsire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unaware
Base Stats: 20/130/75/60/45/100
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Clodsire, in this example, is reinvented into an incredibly strong Choice Scarf revenge killer that is scared of priority moves.

:sv/toxapex:
4 (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Base Stats: 152/53/142/35/50/63
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Surf
Big stall™ always wins. This Toxapex will eat any physical move and stall you to death, much like standard Toxapex already does.

Pokemon now have 5 times the viability they once had. This opens new creative options that you wouldn't assume a Pokemon might have.

I actually submitted a version of this where each rotation number was confined to a slot. It was rejected since the niche of "slot based meta with stat changes" is taken by Godly Gift. This is a valid argument in my opinion.
Another reason, not related to the slot mechanic, is that rotation was too complicated of a mechanic, which I disagree. Cross Evolution requires you to use /ce and /showevo to make a good, creative team and learn the meta for a new player. Cross Evolution has become one of the community's favorite OMs. Torquemons is similar to this, if not easier to get a ball-park estimate of stats.
Their final reason was being too similar to Flipped, which I also disagree with. Torquemons gives more new toys and interesting unconventional options, which the OM community likes. This is less so in Flipped, where the change is static.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with the OM Team or not?
 
Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.

0: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe(unchanged)
1: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD
2: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA
3: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def
4: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk
5: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP

Example:
:sv/clodsire:
1 (Clodsire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unaware
Base Stats: 20/130/75/60/45/100
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Clodsire, in this example, is reinvented into an incredibly strong Choice Scarf revenge killer that is scared of priority moves.

:sv/toxapex:
4 (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Base Stats: 152/53/142/35/50/63
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Surf
Big stall™ always wins. This Toxapex will eat any physical move and stall you to death, much like standard Toxapex already does.

Pokemon now have 5 times the viability they once had. This opens new creative options that you wouldn't assume a Pokemon might have.

I actually submitted a version of this where each rotation number was confined to a slot. It was rejected since the niche of "slot based meta with stat changes" is taken by Godly Gift. This is a valid argument in my opinion.
Another reason, not related to the slot mechanic, is that rotation was too complicated of a mechanic, which I disagree. Cross Evolution requires you to use /ce and /showevo to make a good, creative team and learn the meta for a new player. Cross Evolution has become one of the community's favorite OMs. Torquemons is similar to this, if not easier to get a ball-park estimate of stats.
Their final reason was being too similar to Flipped, which I also disagree with. Torquemons gives more new toys and interesting unconventional options, which the OM community likes. This is less so in Flipped, where the change is static.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with the OM Team or not?
I like it a lot, but it feels like Flipped+. If Flipped gets removed somehow I think this could be accepted as it allows for more creativity and viability.
 
Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.

0: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe(unchanged)
1: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD
2: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA
3: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def
4: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk
5: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP

Example:
:sv/clodsire:
1 (Clodsire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unaware
Base Stats: 20/130/75/60/45/100
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Clodsire, in this example, is reinvented into an incredibly strong Choice Scarf revenge killer that is scared of priority moves.

:sv/toxapex:
4 (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Base Stats: 152/53/142/35/50/63
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Surf
Big stall™ always wins. This Toxapex will eat any physical move and stall you to death, much like standard Toxapex already does.

Pokemon now have 5 times the viability they once had. This opens new creative options that you wouldn't assume a Pokemon might have.

I actually submitted a version of this where each rotation number was confined to a slot. It was rejected since the niche of "slot based meta with stat changes" is taken by Godly Gift. This is a valid argument in my opinion.
Another reason, not related to the slot mechanic, is that rotation was too complicated of a mechanic, which I disagree. Cross Evolution requires you to use /ce and /showevo to make a good, creative team and learn the meta for a new player. Cross Evolution has become one of the community's favorite OMs. Torquemons is similar to this, if not easier to get a ball-park estimate of stats.
Their final reason was being too similar to Flipped, which I also disagree with. Torquemons gives more new toys and interesting unconventional options, which the OM community likes. This is less so in Flipped, where the change is static.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with the OM Team or not?
Pretty interesting.
Also ban :hoopa-unbound: for sure.
130/80/80/160/60/170 is just over the top for something with Nasty Plot/Calm Mind.
For perspective
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 322-379 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Hoopa’s HP
Happiny’s other stats multiplied by 5
So it should be 80/25/25/75/255/150 like you said.
hmm, so the meta would be "High HP with decent BST" with "LC mon with low HP but otherwise good stats" or "Low HP with crazy stats" with "LC mon with good HP but not much else"

e.g, Blissey + Duskull would be 285 (540-255)/275(295-20) = 1.03, but the mon has 255/42/94/31/94/26 stats
e.g.2, Deo-S + Slugma would be 550(600-50)/210(250-40)=2.6ish, which would make Slugma a 50 (from Deo-S)/104/104/182/104/52 monster.

I feel like there's some abuse case here I'm not thinking, and the forumla is overly complicated for something that'd essentially be 350 cup on steroids.


Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.
I really like this.
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
I think I have a concept that gives Pokemon new entirely different roles. I was inspired by Scalemons and came up with this formula.

(BST₁-HP₁)/(BST₂-HP₂) × stat = statf

If you're familiar with scale you'll have a general idea of how this works. But what does the subscript mean? "(BST₁-HP₁)" gives us the BST of the base mon, excepting HP. "(BST₂-HP₂)" gives us the same number, but for a separate Pokemon. This works in the same way that Scalemons does, which is giving a multiplier and applying it to a stat.

Where this format differs is that we use that scale multiplier, and apply it onto a different Pokemon's stats.

:ss/Great Tusk::ss/Regice:

The two Pokemon I used to work out the math, Great Tusk and Regice, will demonstrate how this works in a step-by-step process. Great Tusk will represent the stats noted by the 1 subscript, and Regice will represent the stats noted by the 2 subscript, as well as the stat variable.

(BST₁-HP₁)/(BST₂-HP₂) × stat = statf
(570-115)/(580-80) × stat = statf
455/500 × stat = statf
.91 × stat = statf

Now that we've found the multiplier, we can just apply it to all of Regice's stats.

Great Tusk: 115/131/131/53/53/87
Regice: 80/50/100/100/200/50
Multiplier = .91
Great Tusk redistributed: 115/45/91/91/182/45

This example I've given you would undoubtedly be worse than just using a regular Great Tusk. But you can apply this formula to any Pokemon. Some other things that keep Great Tusk's general distribution, but minmax them more for optimal play

:Bonsly: Bonsly
Before: 50/80/95/10/45/10
After: 115/151/180/18/85/18

:Sandshrew-Alola: Sandshrew-Alola
Before: 50/75/90/10/35/40
After: 115/136/18/63/72

:Stonjourner: Stonjourner
Before: 100/125/135/20/20/70
After: 115/153/166/24/24/86

This is the general gist of the metagame, but I believe that this does not leave room for plenty of creativity. I think that for a specific role, as long as any Pokemon has the appropriate tools, they will all choose one singular mon to fulfill that role. I think that every physical stall mon will want to be distributed like Nosepass, every specially defensive one will want to be one of the Chansey line, Sneasel for physical glass cannons, etc.

This is where I'd think that feedback is necessary. The concept so far I believe is simple. Should this concept be developed further?

Getting some other benefit from the Pokemon they're being redistributed into. I was thinking ability, but then I think it's too similar to Frantic Fusions. Should it be getting a singular move? Should it choose between getting a move or ability? Some secret, nefarious, third thing? Nothing?

Other Remarks
  • When applying the multiplier, round down. Because of this, the Pokemon will likely lose some BST when redistributed.
  • If this concept were ever to make it into a metagame, I assume it would have a PS command to calculate it, like /scale or /ff.
  • The only way I could imagine determining which mon you redistribute into is to put that Pokemon as the nickname.
  • I don't have a name for this concept. If you think that's the concept is worth it, suggest a name. Ideally something that can be used as a verb to describe the stat changes. Like Scalemons has scaled and FF has fused.
I think we have enough stat mod formats to need another.
Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.

0: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe(unchanged)
1: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD
2: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA
3: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def
4: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk
5: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP

Example:
:sv/clodsire:
1 (Clodsire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unaware
Base Stats: 20/130/75/60/45/100
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Clodsire, in this example, is reinvented into an incredibly strong Choice Scarf revenge killer that is scared of priority moves.

:sv/toxapex:
4 (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Base Stats: 152/53/142/35/50/63
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Surf
Big stall™ always wins. This Toxapex will eat any physical move and stall you to death, much like standard Toxapex already does.

Pokemon now have 5 times the viability they once had. This opens new creative options that you wouldn't assume a Pokemon might have.

I actually submitted a version of this where each rotation number was confined to a slot. It was rejected since the niche of "slot based meta with stat changes" is taken by Godly Gift. This is a valid argument in my opinion.
Another reason, not related to the slot mechanic, is that rotation was too complicated of a mechanic, which I disagree. Cross Evolution requires you to use /ce and /showevo to make a good, creative team and learn the meta for a new player. Cross Evolution has become one of the community's favorite OMs. Torquemons is similar to this, if not easier to get a ball-park estimate of stats.
Their final reason was being too similar to Flipped, which I also disagree with. Torquemons gives more new toys and interesting unconventional options, which the OM community likes. This is less so in Flipped, where the change is static.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with the OM Team or not?
We don't need flipped 2.
Surprise Singles
The premise of this meta is simple. The match has a 50% chance of being singles, and a 50% chance of being doubles. As such, you must make sure your team is good in both formats.
Changes:
Moves like Protect and Follow Me will likely be seen less, as they are not very useful in singles, and moves like Ally Switch will probably disappear entirely.
Pokemon who only set up hazards, like Deoxys-Speed will probably fall off, as hazards are less useful in doubles.
Pokemon that will be good will likely be ones that excel in both formats, like Landorus-T, while pokemon who only excel in one, like Incineroar, or Weavile, will probably not be used.
Questions:
What pokemon could be banworthy?
What team archetypes will not be good, and what ones will remain?
We don't accept formats that are RNG based.
Healthmons

Premise: Your weight is an important issue and it should also be for your Pokemon as well. In this meta, Pokemon get a boost/nerf depending on their BMI.

Example:
:ss/Pheromosa:
BMI 13.88~
:ss/Machop:
BMI 24.375
:sv/Snorlax:
BMI 219.05
These Pokemon represent 3 different bodyweights. Pheromosa being below 18.5 is Underweight. Snorlax being above 24.9 (by a lot) is considered overweight (or over x5 Class 3 obese). Machop being inbetween 18.5 and 24.9 is considered healthy weight.
Pheromosa and Snorlax will get different buffs for being under/overweight respectfully as well as nerfs as well. Ideally underweight Pokemon being faster but frailer, whils overweight Pokemon become bulkier but slower.
Machop being at perfect health should ideally only be buffed in a kind of neutral way because surprisingly it’s really hard finding Pokemon at perfect health (like Gardevoir is actually an obese fuck at 30.25 BMI). Likely something like Machop getting 6.25% healing each turn or maybe having both boosts.


Metagame Changes:
:Dragapult:
Dragapult being underweight I feel would make it a bit worse. It already has a massive speed stat and outspeeds almost everything. Especially now that so many more Pokemon are considered obese or overweight. Making it frailer I’d say makes it a bit worse considering the speed only marginally helps it.

:Toxapex:
Buffed for sure. It’s at a healthy BMI so it’ll straight up be buffed. It’s slow and doesn’t hit hard anyways.

:Kingambit:
Well it’s slower but much harder to take down thanks to the added defenses. It could very easily get banned since it can bypass its speed with Sucker Punch, which against underweight targets is way stronger.


Questions:
-What exact values should the buff and nerfs be for under/overweight Pokemon? They could be direct multipliers or even stat stages too. Their could also be room for different mechanics like obese Pokemon being immune to phasing or unable to use priority, or both losing HP because they’re unhealthy (though that might be going too far).
-For Healthy Pokemon, what should their exact buffs be? I made a few suggestions like passive leftovers and getting only stat buffs, but would do you guys think?
-Should the BMI scaling change? I’m currently using the regular human BMI scale where healthy weight is between 18.5-24.9. In this case many Pokemon are considered obese, such as previously mentioned Gardevoir who was surprisingly obese.
This is gonna end quite complex between having to check what BMI each mon has and then remembering what each BMI range gets, specially in the middle of a game.
Ban Breaking

Premise: An Ubers-based format where a ban or illegality may be bypassed once on each Pokémon.

Extra Information: Calyrex-Shadow is unbanned, and using an illegal form (such as a mega) does not count as your “ban break”. Teams must be possible to use in Scarlet/Violet, assuming hacks/glitches were allowed.

Example: Baton Pass is normally banned in Ubers. If a Smeargle were to use Baton Pass, that would count as its ban break. However, Pokémon that do not naturally learn Baton Pass, such as Koraidon, would not be allowed to use it, since this would require two ban breaks- one to permit Baton Pass, and one to give Koraidon the move.

Sample teams:

Hyper Offense
https://pokepast.es/fed1c72041a54609
Wonder Guard Spam
https://pokepast.es/1c412f3ecb22ac20


Bans:
  • Neutralizing Gas
  • Ability Shield
Watchlist:
  • Last Respects
  • Revival Blessing
  • Innards Out
  • Wonder Guard?
  • Shell Smash
Italics indicate the most-watched items/abilities/moves/etc..

Predictions:
  • Unless banned, almost everything will run an Ability Shield, and those who can afford to run Neutralizing Gas will love to do so I’m not even going to let those two be a problem in the first place.
  • Wonder Guard will define the format. The main reason why I am not banning it outright is because there is a variety of counterplay to it, some of which is viable regardless of whether or not Wonder Guard is there
  • Do you like the pink blobs (Chansey/Blissey)? I hope you do, because I can see at least three viable abilities for them (Innards Out, Imposter, Wonder Guard)
  • Necrozma-Dusk-Mane will reign supreme. It can viably run Huge Power, it can run Wonder Guard, it can output damage against Wonder Guard without Mold Breaker due to learning Sunsteel Strike and Photon Geyser, it can run Fur Coat (maybe?)… I could go on. My point is that Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is incredibly versatile, and I would be surprised if it doesn’t become a force to be reckoned with.
Questions for the community:
  • What can I do to make this format more distinct from Balanced/Pure Hackmons?
  • Do you disagree with me keeping Wonder Guard? It would be great if you provided an explanation as to why why and provided some evidence if possible (I know there is only so much you can do for a format that doesn’t exist, but anything would help). Also, I don’t need references related to Pure Hackmons- that is the format I’m most knowledgeable about.
  • Do you have any other ideas for what could be problematic and should be on the watchlist?
  • Is allowing just one “ban break” enough, or should there be more? What about two? Is three too many?
  • Would it be better to base the format on Anything Goes rather than Ubers?
  • Less serious: is “Breaking Banned” a better name for this format?
Anticipated Questions:

Q ) Is this National Dex?
A ) Not quite. While you can theoretically use a cut Pokémon, this would count as a ban break. Each move you give it would also count as a ban break, since these cut Pokémon were never programmed to learn any moves. The only exception to this are alternate forms of Pokémon that already exist in-game, such as Groudon-Primal (Groudon is usable, therefore so is Groudon-Primal). Content such as Z-Moves are not present at all in Scarlet/Violet, and therefore are not usable at all.

Q ) Can I run Last Respects on everything?
A ) Yes, if all of your team members can naturally learn it. This is because a ban break is used if you want to use Last Respects at all due to it being banned in Ubers.

Q ) How do bans specific to this format work?
A ) You may break these bans like any other, but it will count as your ban break. This is subject to change.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -​

I think I did better this time posting here, compared to last time. Sorry for the wall of text- I wanted to do my idea justice, especially since I’ve been working on it for a good part of today. Those sample teams took at least an hour combined, maybe more.

Edits: changed some things (sorry, I don’t remember much about what I did), banned Ability Shield and Neutralizing Gas, removed a question reliant upon Ability Shield not being banned yet, added edits log section, added disclaimer to sample teams section, removed meaning of bold + italics from watchlist, changed meaning of italics in the watchlist, updated teams and removed disclaimer, updated Hyper Offense sample team with a fix for Mewtwo-Mega-Y’s Tera-type along with the items on some Pokémon (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Lunala, Rayquaza-Mega) and the moveset of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane.

Hopefully that will be it, but knowing my luck, this will be edited over the course of several weeks.
This sounds like you had a simple idea and found a way to make it complex, first you should forget about Ubers as a concept, specially if you want hackmon stuff to be allowed to be rule breaks, if someone wants to use an illegal move let them without worrying of learnsets, you should also have your own list of restrictinons (only allowed to be rule breaks) and bans (cant be used at all), you need to somehow turn this into a somewhat balanced format after all.
 
Torquemons

Premise:
Pokemon's stats are "rotated" by a certain amount. This amount is dictated by their nickname, which would be a number from 0-5.

0: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe(unchanged)
1: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD
2: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def/SpA
3: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk/Def
4: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP/Atk
5: HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe -> Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe/HP

Example:
:sv/clodsire:
1 (Clodsire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unaware
Base Stats: 20/130/75/60/45/100
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Clodsire, in this example, is reinvented into an incredibly strong Choice Scarf revenge killer that is scared of priority moves.

:sv/toxapex:
4 (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Base Stats: 152/53/142/35/50/63
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Surf
Big stall™ always wins. This Toxapex will eat any physical move and stall you to death, much like standard Toxapex already does.

Pokemon now have 5 times the viability they once had. This opens new creative options that you wouldn't assume a Pokemon might have.

I actually submitted a version of this where each rotation number was confined to a slot. It was rejected since the niche of "slot based meta with stat changes" is taken by Godly Gift. This is a valid argument in my opinion.
Another reason, not related to the slot mechanic, is that rotation was too complicated of a mechanic, which I disagree. Cross Evolution requires you to use /ce and /showevo to make a good, creative team and learn the meta for a new player. Cross Evolution has become one of the community's favorite OMs. Torquemons is similar to this, if not easier to get a ball-park estimate of stats.
Their final reason was being too similar to Flipped, which I also disagree with. Torquemons gives more new toys and interesting unconventional options, which the OM community likes. This is less so in Flipped, where the change is static.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with the OM Team or not?
I really like that idea, but as to keep the nickname slot free, maybe the team slot could be used instead?
 
All-Weathermons

(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)

(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)


Premise: Every match is played with a randomized and permanent weather, field and dimension.

Weather conditions: Rain, Sun, Sand and Snow
Terrain conditions: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
Dimension conditions: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity

This makes for a total of 64 possible combinations of field conditions (from now on used as a collective term for weather, terrain and/or dimension).

The randomized field conditions will be shown before each player sends out their lead mon.

Example:
In most metagames, field conditions are a core component of team building. Some teams even revolve around one, and in rare cases more, field conditions. In Gen 9 OU, when building a team that doesn't need a field condition to function, one still might want to build their team so they are able to still win versus Rain, Sun, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain. What if we were to take this to the extreme: a metagame where one is required to build a team able to handle all field conditions.

A few specific examples:

:sv/walking wake:
Walking Wake doesn't mind Snow and doesn't enjoy Sand, but oh boy does it love both Rain and Sun. This means that in close to half of all games, where either Rain of Sun is active, Walking Wake will have a good time blasting through the opposition.

:sv/raging bolt:
Raging Bolt loves Grassy (recovery and EQ nerf) and Electric Terrain (nuke electric attacks) a lot as terrain. However, it hates Psychic Terrain completely nullifying its beloved priority Thunderclap, making one move slot effectively useless. And while Misty Terrain blocks status, it also cuts the power of Raging Bolt's Dragon-type moves in half, leaving it as a mostly mono Electric-type attacker.

:sv/roaring moon: :sv/iron valiant:
I don't think I will have to elaborate much on the inevitable clashes between past and future paradox mons that await in this metagame with the possibility of unlimited Sun and Electric Terrain.

:sv/skarmory: :sv/blissey:
Ah yes, the good old Gen 2 walls. Without field conditions, they will still function fine. But what happens if the dimension Wonder Room is active? Suddenly Skarmory becomes the special wall, while Blissey becomes the physical wall. What happens if Trick Room is active? Now Skarmory and Blissey are more likely to outpace their opponents and take the initiative in battle. And what happens if Magic Room is active? Unfortunately, now Skarmory will have to miss out on its trusty Rocky Helmet or Leftovers, while Blissey will have to enter the field without its Heavy-Duty Boots. Finally some opportunities to use those close to unused 'Wonder Room', 'Magic Room' and 'Gravity' buttons in the Damage Calc.

:sv/volcarona: :sv/iron moth:
Speaking of Magic Room making Heavy-Duty Boots obsolete: do you dare bring Volcarona on your team in the 1 in 4 chance it will have to face the pre-Gen 8 PTSD of no boots? And would you still blindly slap that Booster Energy on your Iron Moth and call it a day, ignoring the off chance where Magic Room prevents Booster Energy from activating?

:sv/ursaluna:
One final example, which is one of my favorites since I'm a sucker for Trick Room. In the 1 in 4 chance that Trick Room will be active while you are using your bulky balance team, your opponent will be in for a baaad time. Not to mention if conditions like Sand, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain are active. You just have to hope that Misty Terrain won't be active at the same time and thus blocking Ursaluna's Flame or Toxic Orb.

Even though these are just a few example, the implications of field conditions can have serious consequences for a mon's viability.

Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken. Yes, Walking Wake will be very good in about half of the games where either Sun or Rain is active, just like Iron Bundle with Rain or Snow and/or Electric Terrain, but Trick Room and Magic Room can put a serious dent in those threats. To do a quick and easy calculation with Walking Wake: either Sun or Rain will be active 50% of the time. However, either Trick Room or Magic Room will also be active 50% of the time. This means that in 'only' 25% of the time Walking Wake has a clear opportunity to succeed in unlimited Sun and Rain. While Wake is undoubtedly strong is these instances, I do not think it is as big of a hitter in the other 50% where neither Sun/Rain nor Trick/Magic Room is active, and especially in the 25% where Sun/Rain are not active while Trick/Magic Room are active. This example goes for more big hitters, but I expect only time will tell.

Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream and Snow Warning
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.

Other:
The field effects have to be active on turn 0. This is mostly important for Booster Energy users, as when Magic Room only becomes active after the lead mons are send out, Booster Energy can still activate and will not be nullified even after Magic Room goes up.

Final:
One variant I already came up with, is adding the possibility of having no weather, terrain and/or dimension. As weather, terrain and dimension then have 5 possible 'states' that can be chosen randomly, the total number of combinations increases to 125. This means that there is a 1 in 125 possibility that no field conditions will be active, and a 12 in 125 possibility that only one field condition is active.

Another variant is making it so only two of three field conditions will be chosen at random, while the third one will be ignored, reducing the randomness and thus less erratic. For example, having Rain and Trick Room active and therefore no terrain, or having Electric Terrain and Wonder Room active and therefore no weather.

I have always found field conditions a cool addition to Pokémon all the way back in Gen 3 with weather, and later terrain and dimension. However, even though Rain and Sun see a lot of use these days, I feel that other field conditions have been undervalued and underexplored. I have a soft spot for the dimensions Magic Room and Wonder Room as they effectively never see use in competitive play. I would love to make this metagame a reality to see what interesting teams every comes up with. Though I also very much want to stimulate people experimenting with the field conditions.

I am aware that this metagame does involve some RNG. However, I would say every team is still able to function regardless of the field conditions. If one decides to build a team fully are Rain: yes, they'll likely demolish a lot of non-rain teams, but on the other hand will get equally demolished in instances where rain isn't active. But who knows, maybe someone will be able to craft a team that will weather all...

I am very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!
 
Last edited:

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
All-Weathermons

(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)

(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)


Premise: Every match is played with a randomized and permanent weather, field and dimension.

Weather conditions: Rain, Sun, Sand and Snow
Terrain conditions: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
Dimension conditions: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity

This makes for a total of 64 possible combinations of field conditions (from now on used as a collective term for weather, terrain and/or dimension).

The randomized field conditions will be shown before each player sends out their lead mon.

Example:
In most metagames, field conditions are a core component of team building. Some teams even revolve around one, and in rare cases more, field conditions. In Gen 9 OU, when building a team that doesn't need a field condition to function, one still might want to build their team so they are able to still win versus Rain, Sun, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain. What if we were to take this to the extreme: a metagame where one is required to build a team able to handle all field conditions.

A few specific examples:

:sv/walking wake:
Walking Wake doesn't mind Snow and doesn't enjoy Sand, but oh boy does it love both Rain and Sun. This means that in close to half of all games, where either Rain of Sun is active, Walking Wake will have a good time blasting through the opposition.

:sv/raging bolt:
Raging Bolt loves Grassy (recovery and EQ nerf) and Electric Terrain (nuke electric attacks) a lot as terrain. However, it hates Psychic Terrain completely nullifying its beloved priority Thunderclap, making one move slot effectively useless. And while Misty Terrain blocks status, it also cuts the power of Raging Bolt's Dragon-type moves in half, leaving it as a mostly mono Electric-type attacker.

:sv/roaring moon: :sv/iron valiant:
I don't think I will have to elaborate much on the inevitable clashes between past and future paradox mons that await in this metagame with the possibility of unlimited Sun and Electric Terrain.

:sv/skarmory: :sv/blissey:
Ah yes, the good old Gen 2 walls. Without field conditions, they will still function fine. But what happens if the dimension Wonder Room is active? Suddenly Skarmory becomes the special wall, while Blissey becomes the physical wall. What happens if Trick Room is active? Now Skarmory and Blissey are more likely to outpace their opponents and take the initiative in battle. And what happens if Magic Room is active? Unfortunately, now Skarmory will have to miss out on its trusty Rocky Helmet or Leftovers, while Blissey will have to enter the field without its Heavy-Duty Boots. Finally some opportunities to use those close to unused 'Wonder Room', 'Magic Room' and 'Gravity' buttons in the Damage Calc.

:sv/volcarona: :sv/iron moth:
Speaking of Magic Room making Heavy-Duty Boots obsolete: do you dare bring Volcarona on your team in the 1 in 4 chance it will have to face the pre-Gen 8 PTSD of no boots? And would you still blindly slap that Booster Energy on your Iron Moth and call it a day, ignoring the off chance where Magic Room prevents Booster Energy from activating?

:sv/ursaluna:
One final example, which is one of my favorites since I'm a sucker for Trick Room. In the 1 in 4 chance that Trick Room will be active while you are using your bulky balance team, your opponent will be in for a baaad time. Not to mention if conditions like Sand, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain are active. You just have to hope that Misty Terrain won't be active at the same time and thus blocking Ursaluna's Flame or Toxic Orb.

Even though these are just a few example, the implications of field conditions can have serious consequences for a mon's viability.

Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken. Yes, Walking Wake will be very good in about half of the games where either Sun or Rain is active, just like Iron Bundle with Rain or Snow and/or Electric Terrain, but Trick Room and Magic Room can put a serious dent in those threats. To do a quick and easy calculation with Walking Wake: either Sun or Rain will be active 50% of the time. However, either Trick Room or Magic Room will also be active 50% of the time. This means that in 'only' 25% of the time Walking Wake has a clear opportunity to succeed in unlimited Sun and Rain. While Wake is undoubtedly strong is these instances, I do not think it is as big of a hitter in the other 50% where neither Sun/Rain nor Trick/Magic Room is active, and especially in the 25% where Sun/Rain are not active while Trick/Magic Room are active. This example goes for more big hitters, but I expect only time will tell.

Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream and Snow Warning
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.

Other:
The field effects have to be active on turn 0. This is mostly important for Booster Energy users, as when Magic Room only becomes active after the lead mons are send out, Booster Energy can still activate and will not be nullified even after Magic Room goes up.

Final:
One variant I already came up with, is adding the possibility of having no weather, terrain and/or dimension. As weather, terrain and dimension then have 5 possible 'states' that can be chosen randomly, the total number of combinations increases to 125. This means that there is a 1 in 125 possibility that no field conditions will be active, and a 12 in 125 possibility that only one field condition is active.

Another variant is making it so only two of three field conditions will be chosen at random, while the third one will be ignored, reducing the randomness and thus less erratic. For example, having Rain and Trick Room active and therefore no terrain, or having Electric Terrain and Wonder Room active and therefore no weather.

I have always found field conditions a cool addition to Pokémon all the way back in Gen 3 with weather, and later terrain and dimension. However, even though Rain and Sun see a lot of use these days, I feel that other field conditions have been undervalued and underexplored. I have a soft spot for the dimensions Magic Room and Wonder Room as they effectively never see use in competitive play. I would love to make this metagame a reality to see what interesting teams every comes up with. Though I also very much want to stimulate people experimenting with the field conditions.

I am aware that this metagame does involve some RNG. However, I would say every team is still able to function regardless of the field conditions. If one decides to build a team fully are Rain: yes, they'll likely demolish a lot of non-rain teams, but on the other hand will get equally demolished in instances where rain isn't active. But who knows, maybe someone will be able to craft a team that will weather all...

I am very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!
We don't accept formats based around RNG elements, sorry.
 
We don't accept formats based around RNG elements, sorry.
Understandable. Thanks for letting me know.

Since I like the idea of doing something with field conditions. What do you think of this:
When a weather, field or dimension setting move is used it becomes permanent. This means that every team has the opportunity to actively change the field.
Or what if you could change any mon’s ability, item or moves to be able to permanently set one field condition. I know this goes back to the whole changing ability, item or move system, but I can’t think of alternatives.
One last idea I would have, is what if field conditions are summon permanently upon entry of a certain Pokémon type. For example, all Water-type summoning Rain, all Fairy-types summoning Misty Terrain, all Dark-types summoning Magic Room, all Normal-types summoning Wonder Room, etc.
I don’t know whether it’s possible to use the tera button with this. For example, we’d ban tera, and instead you can tera a mon once every two to five turns, and based on the type you chose for the mon, that field condition will be set permanently. The mon won’t actually change into that type. Also, Stellar-type could be used on a mon to clear all field conditions for example.

Personally, I think changing a move to permanently set the field condition OR tera is the best and has to most room for unique team building in combination with normal abilities and items. It also greatly forces every team to have at least one weather, terrain and dimension setter. You could also make it so those moves and tera types can be seen from the start of a match if the unpredictability is too much. You can also give those setting moves the Blood Moon / Gigaton Hammer treatment, where they can’t be permanently reset for 1, 2 or more turns after it’s been used.

The first question I personally would have, is whether field conditions can be overwritten. For example, when the opponent used Rain Dance and summoned permanent Rain, can it immediately be changed to Snow if you used Snowscape? And is the opponent immediately able to afterwards change it back to Rain again?

The second question is whether you should include weather in this, since I expect Rain and Sun to definitely become banworthy. I’m most interested in seeing people trying out terrain and dimension teams, but also have ample counterplay.

I can elaborate on it next week after my week of cooldown for sharing ideas is over.
 
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Magic Mayhem Maiden

formerly CorruptionInTheGovernment
Metagame Premise: Every Pokemon may swap types with the opposing Pokemon once per game. This replaces Tera.

- Mechanics are the same as Tera, except all six Pokemon can use it, and they do not have STAB on their original types.
- A Pokemon can swap types as many times as it can in a game, even if they have a swapped typing.
- If both Pokemon use this mechanic on the same turn, they swap types back and forth, resulting in no typing change.

Potential Bans and Threats:
- Offensive Pokemon that would be weak to their own coverage can swap types to get a 2x multiplier on the attack that turn, notably Ghost and Dragon types. The only ways to avoid this is with a faster pivot move, or predicting both players will swap types.
- Defensive Pokemon with impressive stats can shrug off even a super-effective attack, especially without STAB.

Questions for the Community:
- As I was writing this, I realizes this would be very prediction-reliant, not only for the amount of times that you have to predict the types to swap, but also for coverage moves.
- Should Pokemon get STAB on their original types? I don't think so, since it makes Ghost and Dragons types way stronger, while making STAB moves quite safe to use.
- Should the mechanic happen before switching? It lessens the threat of self super-effective attacks, and it also guarantees swapping types with the opposing Pokemon if you use the mechanic.
 
Understandable. Thanks for letting me know.

Since I like the idea of doing something with field conditions. What do you think of this:
When a weather, field or dimension setting move is used it becomes permanent. This means that every team has the opportunity to actively change the field.
Or what if you could change any mon’s ability, item or moves to be able to permanently set one field condition. I know this goes back to the whole changing ability, item or move system, but I can’t think of alternatives.
One last idea I would have, is what if field conditions are summon permanently upon entry of a certain Pokémon type. For example, all Water-type summoning Rain, all Fairy-types summoning Misty Terrain, all Dark-types summoning Magic Room, all Normal-types summoning Wonder Room, etc.
I don’t know whether it’s possible to use the tera button with this. For example, we’d ban tera, and instead you can tera a mon once every two to five turns, and based on the type you chose for the mon, that field condition will be set permanently. The mon won’t actually change into that type. Also, Stellar-type could be used on a mon to clear all field conditions for example.

Personally, I think changing a move to permanently set the field condition OR tera is the best and has to most room for unique team building in combination with normal abilities and items. It also greatly forces every team to have at least one weather, terrain and dimension setter. You could also make it so those moves and tera types can be seen from the start of a match if the unpredictability is too much. You can also give those setting moves the Blood Moon / Gigaton Hammer treatment, where they can’t be permanently reset for 1, 2 or more turns after it’s been used.

The first question I personally would have, is whether field conditions can be overwritten. For example, when the opponent used Rain Dance and summoned permanent Rain, can it immediately be changed to Snow if you used Snowscape? And is the opponent immediately able to afterwards change it back to Rain again?

The second question is whether you should include weather in this, since I expect Rain and Sun to definitely become banworthy. I’m most interested in seeing people trying out terrain and dimension teams, but also have ample counterplay.

I can elaborate on it next week after my week of cooldown for sharing ideas is over.
I would advise something a lot simpler:
Weathers: Rain, Sun, Sand, Snow, Strong Winds (5)
Terrains: Grassy, Electric, Psychic, Misty (4)
Rooms: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room (3)

Every turn, it steps through each room/terrain/weather in order. Since there are 5 weathers, 4 terrains and 3 rooms, they will overlap differently with each loop with no randomness involved (only repeats after 60 turns). Being able to predict the condition next is honestly better for strategy anyway in my opinion.
I think this is a pretty cool idea!
 
I would advise something a lot simpler:
Weathers: Rain, Sun, Sand, Snow, Strong Winds (5)
Terrains: Grassy, Electric, Psychic, Misty (4)
Rooms: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room (3)

Every turn, it steps through each room/terrain/weather in order. Since there are 5 weathers, 4 terrains and 3 rooms, they will overlap differently with each loop with no randomness involved (only repeats after 60 turns). Being able to predict the condition next is honestly better for strategy anyway in my opinion.
I think this is a pretty cool idea!
I think this a good idea! It indeed takes away the RNG aspect while also including all field conditions (rip Gravity lol).

Two additional ideas:
(1) what if the field on turn 0 is random, so it doesn’t always start with Rain/Grassy/TR. Then everything afterwards will be predictable.
(2a) what if the field conditions change once every like 5 turns (so weather, terrain and room simul? This opens up for a bit more strategizing instead of erratically rotating. In some way rotating every turn could be cool, but I would maybe expect a lot of people slapping protect on their mons.
(2b) what if the field conditions chance once every 6 turns, but now weather changes after turn 2, terrain after turn 4, room after turn 6 and then again weather after turn 8. Just a different variant that provides a bit more oversight with all the field condition changing.

I think ideas 1 and 2 could be used together as well. I would love to hear what you and others think about the idea of the rotating field conditions.
 

KaenSoul

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Understandable. Thanks for letting me know.

Since I like the idea of doing something with field conditions. What do you think of this:
When a weather, field or dimension setting move is used it becomes permanent. This means that every team has the opportunity to actively change the field.
Or what if you could change any mon’s ability, item or moves to be able to permanently set one field condition. I know this goes back to the whole changing ability, item or move system, but I can’t think of alternatives.
One last idea I would have, is what if field conditions are summon permanently upon entry of a certain Pokémon type. For example, all Water-type summoning Rain, all Fairy-types summoning Misty Terrain, all Dark-types summoning Magic Room, all Normal-types summoning Wonder Room, etc.
I don’t know whether it’s possible to use the tera button with this. For example, we’d ban tera, and instead you can tera a mon once every two to five turns, and based on the type you chose for the mon, that field condition will be set permanently. The mon won’t actually change into that type. Also, Stellar-type could be used on a mon to clear all field conditions for example.

Personally, I think changing a move to permanently set the field condition OR tera is the best and has to most room for unique team building in combination with normal abilities and items. It also greatly forces every team to have at least one weather, terrain and dimension setter. You could also make it so those moves and tera types can be seen from the start of a match if the unpredictability is too much. You can also give those setting moves the Blood Moon / Gigaton Hammer treatment, where they can’t be permanently reset for 1, 2 or more turns after it’s been used.

The first question I personally would have, is whether field conditions can be overwritten. For example, when the opponent used Rain Dance and summoned permanent Rain, can it immediately be changed to Snow if you used Snowscape? And is the opponent immediately able to afterwards change it back to Rain again?

The second question is whether you should include weather in this, since I expect Rain and Sun to definitely become banworthy. I’m most interested in seeing people trying out terrain and dimension teams, but also have ample counterplay.

I can elaborate on it next week after my week of cooldown for sharing ideas is over.
Is better to keep things simple, having each condition being dependent on typing makes it quite complicated to remember, as most aren't as obvious as Sun=Fire, the more complex the rules get the easier is for people to get confused and frustrated, but in the other hand having them as options on item/ability slot makes this quite similar to Trademarked, but more limited as you can already put any status move there including weather inducing moves.
 
Is better to keep things simple, having each condition being dependent on typing makes it quite complicated to remember, as most aren't as obvious as Sun=Fire, the more complex the rules get the easier is for people to get confused and frustrated, but in the other hand having them as options on item/ability slot makes this quite similar to Trademarked, but more limited as you can already put any status move there including weather inducing moves.
What do you think of the variant suggested by Pipotchi and my additional ideas to circumvent those issues you mentioned (mainly RNG aspect and having to use the ability/moveslot or tera)?
 
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I think this a good idea! It indeed takes away the RNG aspect while also including all field conditions (rip Gravity lol).

Two additional ideas:
(1) what if the field on turn 0 is random, so it doesn’t always start with Rain/Grassy/TR. Then everything afterwards will be predictable.
(2a) what if the field conditions change once every like 5 turns (so weather, terrain and room simul? This opens up for a bit more strategizing instead of erratically rotating. In some way rotating every turn could be cool, but I would maybe expect a lot of people slapping protect on their mons.
(2b) what if the field conditions chance once every 6 turns, but now weather changes after turn 2, terrain after turn 4, room after turn 6 and then again weather after turn 8. Just a different variant that provides a bit more oversight with all the field condition changing.

I think ideas 1 and 2 could be used together as well. I would love to hear what you and others think about the idea of the rotating field conditions.
1) i think is pretty fair as an idea
2a) tbh i think the fun of the metagame is having new things happen more frequently than every 5 turns, because otherwise things are going to get samey for extended periods
b)the idea of having cascading changes so each individual condition lasts longer is all good, but i would once again suggest changing more frequently because 6 turns of sun or trick room or whatever feels too standard- how about every single turn a new one changes, so each condition is lasting 3 turns instead of 6? it would probably feel more different and be more fun, because you cant just go all in on trick room or all in on sun and get a full 6 uninterrupted turns. tldr im cautious that the most impactful conditions lasting 6 turns means you could center your team all around that strategy, whereas the fun of the metagame seems to be trying to mix and match a bunch of different archetypes that otherwise have no business being together.

I personally think the shorter the time with each condition the better, but the idea of having a little bit of cascading doesnt hurt too. 2 or 3 is the ideal number of turns with each condition in my opinion, gives you time to find a way to switch in against a powerful mon that is abusing its ideal condition across 1 or 2 turns and then take advantage of the new conditions yourself.

I would want to run random stuff like an aurora veil froslass, choice specs walking wake, ursaluna and unburden hawlucha all on the same team and get away with it. Instead of running a full sun/trick room team and stalling until my conditions appear for the next 6 turns. Anyway, really like the idea and hope you submit it! I would try this meta out
 

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