Project Metagame Workshop

Toxtection said:
This is what I'm thinking for a starting banlist:

Definately Banned:

Pokemon

:arceus: Arceus
:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur
:calyrex-ice: Calyrex-Ice
:calyrex-shadow: Calyrex-Shadow
:chien-pao: Chien-Pao
:chi-yu: Chi-Yu
:deoxys: Deoxys
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:dialga: Dialga
:dialga-origin: Dialga-Origin
:eternatus: Eternatus
:flutter mane: Flutter Mane
:giratina: Giratina
:giratina-origin: Giratina-Origin
:gouging fire: Gouging Fire
:groudon: Groudon
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:iron bundle: Iron Bundle
:koraidon: Koraidon
:kyogre: Kyogre
:kyurem-black: Kyurem-Black
:kyurem-white: Kyurem-White
:lugia: Lugia
:lunala: Lunala
:magearna: Magearna
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:miraidon: Miraidon
:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:ogerpon-hearthflame: Ogerpon-Hearthflame
:palkia: Palkia
:palkia-origin: Palkia-Origin
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:reshiram: Reshiram
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
:sneasler: Sneasler
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:spectrier: Spectrier
:urshifu: Urshifu
:urshifu-rapid-strike: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
:zacian: Zacian
:zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned
:zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned
:zekrom: Zekrom

:falinks: Falinks
:gholdengo: Gholdengo
:hoopa-unbound: Hoopa-U
:komala: Komala
:lilligant-hisui: Lilligant-Hisui
:regigigas: Regigigas
:smeargle: Smeargle

Moves

:smeargle: Baton Pass
:snorlax: Belly Drum
:basculegion: Last Respects
:volcarona: Quiver Dance
:pawmot: Revival Blessing
:cyclizar: Shed Tail
:cloyster: Shell Smash
:annihilape: Rage Fist

Abilities

:dugtrio: Arena Trap
:serperior: Contrary
:azumarill: Huge Power
:magnezone: Magnet Pull
:glalie: Moody
:weezing-galar: Neutralizing Gas
:medicham: Pure Power
:gothitelle: Shadow Tag
:feraligatr: Sheer Force
:blaziken: Speed Boost
:thievul: Stakeout
:skuntank: Stench
:hawlucha: Unburden
:araquanid: Water Bubble

Items

:king's rock: King's Rock
:razor fang: Razor Fang
Watchlist:

Pokemon

:frosmoth: Frosmoth
:kommo-o:/:numel: Kommo-O/Numel (At least one banned)
:manaphy: Manaphy
:persian-alola: Persian-Alola
:slaking: Slaking
:veluza: Veluza
:zamazenta: Zamazenta

Moves

:toxtricity: Boomburst

Abilities

:toxic orb: Poison Heal

Items

:damp rock: Damp Rock
:heat rock: Heat Rock
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I'm slightly surprised that shift gear wasn't mentioned, +2 speed and +1 attack sounds threatening on a BO mon like Great Tusk.

Also with Falinx and Liligant-H being banned, I think it's a bit fairer to ban the moves that make them overpowered instead of the pokemon themselves, because then they are a lot more balanced.

Also if Numel gets banned, I already have watched enough Dracomenace videos to know that simple beam + trace on another mon is very dangerous.
 
No roaring moon is interesting. I know it's been banned only recently but technician moon is really powerful with scale shot and bite being boosted
(bite is really funny, it becomes a 90bp STAB move with a really good flinch chance.)
Moon is good because of its stats, not necessarily its movepool and ability. Massive attack and good speed makes it an absolute menace. Imagine giving it a better ability then Protosynthesis.
 
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AintTellingUNothing said:
Also with Falinx and Liligant-H being banned, I think it's a bit fairer to ban the moves that make them overpowered instead of the pokemon themselves, because then they are a lot more balanced.
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Smogon tiering policy dictates that problematic mons who are the only user of moves/abilities get banned, even when that is the element breaks them. For instance, no one argues that banning Wicked Blow would make Urshifu balanced in OU. You just ban Urshifu. Otherwise, it’s a complex ban.
 
VannAccessible said:
Smogon tiering policy dictates that problematic mons who are the only user of moves/abilities get banned, even when that is the element breaks them. For instance, no one argues that banning Wicked Blow would make Urshifu balanced in OU. You just ban Urshifu. Otherwise, it’s a complex ban.
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I mean, it's possible that Urshifu would be balanced without Wicked Blow, depending on what other dark moves it has.
 
Metagame: Mixed Attacker

All moves for each Pokémon will be physical if it's attack is higher than special attack, and special for the opposite case. Maybe no change if they are equal.
 
Okay...? I don't wanna be mean but doesn't sound that instrsting- like sure gengar can now punch stuff with its special attack but it doesn't sound that fun imo
Besides this only helps a few pokemon.
Again, not to be mean bur just doesn't seem like my thing.
Could be wrong but right now seems a bit situational. Also, say we have a talonflame with overheat- does it's attack or special attack get lowered? Otherwise physical users of draco meteors, overheats, leaf storm etc are broken.
 
AintTellingUNothing said:
Okay...? I don't wanna be mean but doesn't sound that instrsting- like sure gengar can now punch stuff with its special attack but it doesn't sound that fun imo
Besides this only helps a few pokemon.
Again, not to be mean bur just doesn't seem like my thing.
Could be wrong but right now seems a bit situational. Also, say we have a talonflame with overheat- does it's attack or special attack get lowered? Otherwise physical users of draco meteors, overheats, leaf storm etc are broken.
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It helps a lot of offensive mons. I get that it’s not a novel idea but it’s definitely less random than Bad and Boosted.

Yes, self-stat lowering moves must lower the relevant attack stat or they would be broken.
 
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Sorry to be blunt, but I think another issue is that it just sounds like a lesser version of Full Potential.

Edit: heh ninja’d

———

Just so this isn’t a one liner, was anyone interested in taking over or following up on Double Agent, or any variation of it? It had some positive buzz, but I can’t host any more OMs (unless I surrender one). I was also struggling with being betrayed by your own mons concept, yet I can’t get it out of my head. We’ve never had an OM like that, and it sounds pretty interesting.

If anyone wants to collab on it you can always DM me.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Not really? Full Potential functions the same as your OM except that it uses the highest stat of any stat (excluding HP) for damage calculation.
There isn't any "split" between physical or special moves.
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Shadow ball still targets special defense and poltergeist targets defense in Full Potential. In my metagame, for each Pokémon, all moves become special or physical.
 
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Xufactor said:
It helps a lot of offensive mons. I get that it’s not a novel idea but it’s definitely less random than Bad and Boosted.

Yes, self-stat lowering moves must lower the relevant attack stat or they would be broken.
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Most mons have movepools that are mostly physical/special there main attacking stat. While there are exceptions, I agree with Inky that this is just stricter Full Potential. Usually an OM has to majorly impact the game, some good examples are Frantic Fusions, or Alphabet Cup.
If pokemon get access to moves or abilities it usually wouldn't get, or both, that almost is always a really successful OM.
I'm just waiting for next month because Formemons is the bigger meta and it is still boring, because creativity is much more restricted.
If you want a good meta make it open up creativity.
 
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VannAccessible said:
Just so this isn’t a one liner, was anyone interested in taking over or following up on Double Agent, or any variation of it? It had some positive buzz, but I can’t host any more OMs (unless I surrender one). I was also struggling with being betrayed by your own mons concept, yet I can’t get it out of my head. We’ve never had an OM like that, and it sounds pretty interesting.

If anyone wants to collab on it you can always DM me.
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I thought of a way to do it- make it so that (if it's doubles) once per game you can do an attack through your opponents pokemon, either one of theirs or one of yours in addition to the move you would have done otherwise, so you could triple up on a pokémon. Also probably Ban telepathy because it ruins the point of the meta
Don't think I would be able to run a meta but I like passing around ideas.
 
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InkyDarkBird said:
I don't really think such a small caveat justifies an entire OM being made that is otherwise more restrictive version of Full Potential.
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Not going to push my idea, but isn’t forcing physical or special moves a big difference? Generally, physical only and special only walls would be bad in Full Potential. For example, Skarmory can wall Dragagpult’s dragon darts but not its Shadow Ball. Whereas if Dragapult was locked in to be physical, Skarmory can wall it.
 
I suppose, but don't tempt fate into making it a stall/BO meta, that could go bad quickly. While some players like defensive teams, they aren't everyone's cup of tea.
Mixed attackers are harder to find because besides mythicals, most pokemon have uneven offensive stats.
 
AintTellingUNothing said:
I suppose, but don't tempt fate into making it a stall/BO meta, that could go bad quickly. While some players like defensive teams, they aren't everyone's cup of tea.
Mixed attackers are harder to find because besides mythicals, most pokemon have uneven offensive stats.
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I think it should be fairly obvious that changing all of a Pokémon’s attacks to be the higher of its atk or special atk would make the metagame more offensive, not less. Like you were saying, Pokémon that actually want to be mixed attackers are hard to find
 
Idea for a meta

No Gym Badges:
In this meta your pokemon have a chance to disobey you, like if they were too high of a level on cartridge, the mon will have a chance to do one of the following:

  • Actually do what you said
  • Do nothing
  • Use a different move
  • Hurt itself
  • Take a nap
I think this could be a chaotic rng meta that could be interesting to see what succeeds
 
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