Metagame Workshop

[LordHelix]

As im trying to garner more attention for plate typing im gonna try to show off the meta more whether its by sample sets or type rankings

For now thos enjoy some more interesting sets (im gonna focus on mons generally not very relevant to buff them), here they are:

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes

Set Details

This set takes advantage of roserades amazing defensive typing and abuses technician with stab 75 bp draining kiss and the ability to set up tspikes

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Earth Power
- Nature's Madness/Ice Beam
- Taunt/Spikes

Set Details

Are you terrified of all those potential boltbeamers and electric/fires? Well fini is here to fuck (most) these mons up with its amazing spdef and godly new typing, also has reliable recovery, good matchup vs most other fat mons AND can set up spikes, will be a top tier for sure

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Beak Blast
- Seismic Toss/Defog
- Toxic/Stealth Rocks

Set Details

Credits to samhpl for inspiring this, this set literally combines both skarm and celesteela into one mon with higher defenses on both sides, it can defog it can set rocks it can burn, likely to be a staple on bulky balance/stall

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Moongeist Beam
- Aura Sphere
- Subtitute/Vacuum Wave

Set Details

Broken, literally beats stall on its own if the opponent doesnt have an unaware normal/fairy clefable (BH audino is leaking), nothing else to say, its decent vs balance/stall but bad vs offense

Alternatively for a non resisted stab user

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Set Details

For a budget marshadow user it will have to do, yea loss of technician and a bit of speed sucks but thats the best user a ghost fighting can have. set is self explanatory u rek teams if they dont have a normal/ghost

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pain Split
- Doom Desire
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp

Set Details

Well another mon with a seemingly dumb typing, high def and decent spdef allows it to take hits and punish with pain split or willo, and dooms desire it to be annoying vs offense

Speaking of walls that can dish out damage

/

Espeon/Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Morning Sun/Roost
- King's Shield
- Toxic/Calm Mind/Heat Wave

Set Details

We finally have a decent non-mega sableye magic bouncer, dooms desire can punish switch ins hard and can annoy pursuiters and physical attackers hard with kings shield mindgames. Xatu could work too cause of access to defog and heat wave but espeon is another option nonetheless

Those are just some sets off some personal favs off the top of my head, thanks for reading and would love to see ur sets/opinions on the meta!

 

[Rose_Warrior]

ghost plate blissey T_T please no no no no steel water milatic or more annoyingly silvally with sky plate or any other parting shot users who get access to recovery speaking of recovery stall just got a whole lot more annoying how about literally every single mon that is stupidly bulky and is held back solely by the fact of no recovery let me think of a few suicune, cress(its recovery is meh), shuckle(XD could not resist), ferrothorn(bug plate?), celesteela(does not have to change type but could if it wanted to), registeel, alolmola(it has wish so eh :p), also clefaible could run steel type so steel fairy with soft boiled or wish? also kyruem naturally has roost, so mono dragon or dragon steel typing? also kartana now could run a fighting or normal type or fighting grass type, but it does not want knock off sadly cause plates cant be knocked off in this meta right?

 

[LordHelix]

ghost plate blissey T_T please no no no no steel water milatic or more annoyingly silvally with sky plate or any other parting shot users who get access to recovery speaking of recovery stall just got a whole lot more annoying how about literally every single mon that is stupidly bulky and is held back solely by the fact of no recovery let me think of a few suicune, cress(its recovery is meh), shuckle(XD could not resist), ferrothorn(bug plate?), celesteela(does not have to change type but could if it wanted to), registeel, alolmola(it has wish so eh :p), also clefaible could run steel type so steel fairy with soft boiled or wish? also kyruem naturally has roost, so mono dragon or dragon steel typing? also kartana now could run a fighting or normal type or fighting grass type, but it does not want knock off sadly cause plates cant be knocked off in this meta right?

Nope at least thats what i understood from coolman i think, plates cant be knocked off as it ruins the point of meta

even better, celesteela could run steel/grass and get strength sap, or ferro with bug steel and heal order and sticky webs, clefable could run fire fairy (an interesting typing) or steel fairy like u said, suicune could run water/grass and get a broken recovery move in strength sap too.
Dont worry about stall being too powerful though offense gets just as much as of a buff as stall does with crazy breakers like xurkitree/blace/lele/lando and such

Also Unfortunately kyurem and kartana are banned (im not 100% sure abt if kartana was banned but it should be tbh) their possibilities are endless and they were only held back by one thing and now they arent anymore (bad typing and not great stabs which are fixed in this meta)

 

[Mintly]

Im not sure if this has been done before (It probably has!) But here goes:

Alphabetype

Metagame Premise: All Pokemon's Types shift alphabetically down, or, if they are shiny, shift up. In addition, they are allowed ONE move that is less than or equal to 120 BP added into their moveset that is one of their new types.

For Instance:

(

) -->

(

)
OR

(

) -->

(

)

Sets:

(

)
Armaldo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance

Armaldo has decent bulk, but id be much nicer if it was under rain. Knock Off and Liquidation make better STABs, too.

Banlist: Standard OU Clauses, Shift Clause(No more than one (1) move added less than 121 BP)

Questions for the Community:
- Has this been done before, and i just wasnt aware?
- Does the Shift Clause seem too complicated?

 

[AquaticPanic]

I remember seeing a meta almost identical - only that being shiny didn't change anything and no new moves could be added.

 

[Billybobman]

Under "Everything Else" http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-index-sun-moon-edition.3587933/#post-7104137
"Change-Type Mons: Types change to the Type directly after it alphabetically".

"They are allowed ONE move that is less than or equal to 120 BP added into their moveset that is one of their new types"
This makes the OM a little different.

 

[Champion Leon]

Hey guys, I reworded the concept and added an intro sentence to acknowledge the stages.Can you guys tell me if the concept makes sense?

I feel it should be easier to understand that anything that could have gotten an evolution is eligible to use Eviolite, and Mega Stones are only required if the Mega form comes from a Stage 2 in the evolutionary line (Baby, Basic, Stage 1, Stage 2).

Please let me know what I can do to improve any clarity or conceptual parts. The idea is to change the metagame by expanding Eviolite’s use and removing the need to waste your 1 Mega Evolution on average Mega Pokemon (as typically the best Megas come from Stage 2 Pokemon like Metagross).

Title: Eviolution

Metagame premise:
In Pokémon there are Baby Pokemon (Pichu), Basic Pokemon (Pikachu/Weedle), Stage 1 Pokemon (Raichu/Kakuna), Stage 2 Pokemon (Beedrill), and lastly there are Stage 3 (Mega forms of Stage 2 Pokémon) such as Beedrill-Mega.

In this metagame, only Stage 3 Pokemon require Mega Stones, plus Eviolite can be used by all Baby (Phione), Basic (Carbink, Cosplay Pikachu, Hat forms of Pikachu), and Stage 1 (Floette's Eternal Flower form) Pokemon / Mega Pokemon, even if they cannot evolve (like Phione); Mega and regular forms count as separate (for Species Clause), and thus you can use both Houndoom, and Houndoom-Mega.

Potential bans and threats:
Bulky Stall Threat:

Hide

As everyone invests in HP, and defenses to pair with Eviolite, Clefable will be very powerful and suspect-worthy, given that it can combine its defensive abilities Unaware or Magic Guard, and set up with Calm Mind, allowing Eviolite to Boost it’s Defenses while ignoring the set up moves from its foes.

Clefable @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature

- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Softboiled
- Moonblast

Bulky Offensive Threat:

Hide

Mawile-Mega @ Eviolite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature

- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off

Mawile-Mega poses an immediate threat, and has enough defenses to take a hit during set up thanks to Eviolite, then hit with Sucker Punch to threaten offense. Play Rough offers STAB coverage, while Knock Off serves to threaten the use of the most commonly used item in this metagame.

Anti-Meta

Hide

Gastrodon @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 SpD
Bold Nature

- Scald
- Recover
- Clear Smog
- Stockpile

Sticky Hold keeps Eviolite, while Recover heals Gastrodon. Stockpile works to ensure you can stay in, while Clear Smog prevents the foe from setting up. Scald serves to punish Fire-types immune to the Burn Status, while burning everything else.

This serves as a wall.

Muk @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature

- Power-Up Punch / Toxic
- Stockpile / Haze
- Knock Off
- Pain Split

Either set up and disarm them of items, or prevent them from setting up and stall with Toxic. Stockpile has a higher base Defense and Special Defense to work with thanks to Eviolite, which cannot be Knocked Off due to Sticky Hold. Can wall the above Mawile and Clefable sets due to its typing and Haze, while threatening with Knock Off and stealing HP with Pain Split.

Questions for the community: What would make the concept easier to understand?

 

[Billybobman]

Go Green in Doubles

Tier: Doubles OU

Premise: If a pokemon has lost it's originally held item (for any reason) and is not holding an item, it is added back at the end of the turn.

Clauses: Standard DOU with Item Clause

Inspiration: One of my favorite abilities is harvest, I just think it's not on a good pokemon. I think having 1 specific ability on all mons is not liked, based on the rejection list, so I figured I would just add more items. Hopefully that's okay.

Why doubles? Just to make some items more useful. Eject button probably is only good in doubles. Some fling items can help ur team members. I also wanted to include the use of Bestow or Trick which may be able to replace a good item, with a bad one, or it may help to heal a teammate. Also, infinite subs would probably be annoying in singles.

Items that become more useful

Heal Berries, Terrain Seeds, Air Balloon, Resist Berries, Those items that boost a stat when hit by a specific type, Berries that give high base power for Natural Gift, Possibly Berry Juice, Power Herb, Red Card, Possibly Eject Button, Weakness Policy, Gems if they exist (could probably add them in anyways), Mental Herb, Micle Berry, Status Heal Berries, Stat Boost Berries, Adrenaline Orb

Fling Items

Light Ball, Iron Ball, Flame Orb, King's Rock, Poison Barb, Mental Herb, Razor Fang, Toxic Orb, White Herb, King's Rock, Razor Fang, Fossils, Hard Stone, Rare Bone.

Might be a meta where magic room can be useful.
Set Ideas: https://pokepast.es/6007cdc251e0cdc8
Also, this ability might be usable: http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/abilities/symbiosis/

Questions: Should I try to come up with a different name for this? Maybe Recyclemons?
Would players be encouraged to use sets that aren't already standard?
Is gluttony over powered?
If I can, should I allow elemental gems?
How should Pick Up work? http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/abilities/pickup/

 

[Mintly]

I remember seeing a meta almost identical - only that being shiny didn't change anything and no new moves could be added.

thanks for telling me, cause i felt like it had been done

 

[SadisticMystic]

Gotta Go Fast Green (Togedemaru) @ Berry Juice
Level: 1
Ability: Sturdy
Hasty Nature
EVs: 3 HP / 3 Atk / 3 Def / 3 SpA / 3 SpD / 3 Spe
- Fake Out
- Endeavor
- Spiky Shield
- Nuzzle

So if you want to dispose of a Berry Juice Sturdy mon in this format, you either have to double target it for 2 turns in a row, or somehow hit it for at least 1 but not more than 5 damage (such as by using your own FEAR), or apply some kind of residual damage to it (given Togedemaru's type, you're pretty much limited to burn/hail/Leech Seed), or just have a Mold Breaker. Of those, double targeting is the only answer that doesn't force the opponent into some very constrained sets, but it's also the one that Togedemaru can completely shut down. Between a turn-1 Fake Out that practically ensures they won't be double-targeting it that turn, and the ability to Spiky Shield right after it gets its Berry Juice back (so it gets it back again, this time with full health already), and the ability to throw out Endeavors that its teammate can probably finish off from there, don't be distracted by the smile: this thing is a complete terror. So don't forget to bring a Mold Breaker, but remember that even Hawlucha, the fastest Mold Breaker in the game, can still be outsped to have its ability replaced with Sceptile's Worry Seed (not even counting Whimsicott).

Fling One (Weavile) @ Razor Fang
Ability: Pressure
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Fling
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard

Fling Two (Ambipom) @ King's Rock
Ability: Technician
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Fling
- Last Resort
- empty

Hope you outspeed these things, or at least have Inner Focus, because otherwise you just don't do anything. It makes you wonder why they let both of these items have the same Fling effect--was working around item clause deliberately on the mind? And it also makes you wonder how in an era where we have Mental Herb, Safety Goggles, and even Protective Pads, there's still no option we can use to block flinching from the item slot.

 

[Billybobman]

Oh, I was looking at previous ROM ladders, and it seems like a recycle OM has been done before in Gen6:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/recyclables.3581818/ Gen6 version is playable on ROM.

Seems like Shedinja would also be a problem in a recycle type of meta: "Shedinja: Equipped with a focus sash it becomes almost unkillable via conventional means."
At least one flinch items wud probably need to be banned. Fear would probably need to be looked at too.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-recyclables-225848 (played against myself)
It looks like the gen 6 version does not change gameplay too much compared to OU. So maybe a gen7 version might not be worth it. I could be wrong though.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Sash Shedinja is at least less troublesome in doubles, because double-targeting it for just one turn (provided both of your actives can actually hit it) takes it out before it has a chance to recycle, and sand/hail autosetters are more common in doubles (it can't hold Safety Goggles if it's committed to Sash).

 

[Billybobman]

I'm keeping the item idea in mind, but here's another idea:
All for One - Battle Spot Singles

Premise: All status moves with priority 0 (except z-status) that are chosen that target only the user of that move will be stored in a queue and are not used until the start of the first turn after 2 of your chosen pokemon have fainted.

Basically when you use substitute, when you have at least 2 pokemon, it wll not create a substitute. when you bring your final mon out, at the start of the turn that mon will use substitute along with whatever else was stored in the queue.

Rule: The order the stored moves will be used is based on which entered the queue first.
If the a self inflincting status move is boosted by prankster or triage, and it's original priority is 0, it is still stored in the queue.

Strategy: Players have to choose between trying to defeat their opponents mons quickly, or try to take the time to store as many moves as possible. Players may even need to try to self destruct their own mons to bring out their final pokemon faster. Players may also try to trap other mons with shadow tag or arena trap to remove specific pokemon. Taunt becomes pretty useful in this meta. Minimize becomes evil.

Why Battle Spot Singles?: I feel it would be more manageable. 6v6 Might end up having teams that reach like +6 in all stats, Ingrain, Aqua Ring, Substitute, Focus Energy, etc.

Possible Bans: Unaware
Quick Bans: Not sure

Example trios:

Focus Energy

Blaziken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Focus Energy
- Blaze Kick
- Sky Uppercut
- Substitute

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut

Kingdra @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Focus Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump

Belly Drum Unburden

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Rock Slide

Azumarill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Agility
- Facade
- Substitute

Stored Power Belly Drum Iron Defense

Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stockpile
- Body Slam
- Crunch
- Recycle

Aegislash @ Lum Berry
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Claw
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Defense

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower

Questions:
Can it be easily programmed?
Should I try to reword the premise?
Does the idea sound fun?

 

[Magii]

I'm keeping the item idea in mind, but here's another idea:
All for One - Battle Spot Singles

Premise: All status moves with priority 0 (except z-status) that are chosen that target only the user of that move will be stored in a queue and are not used until the start of the first turn after 2 of your chosen pokemon have fainted.

Basically when you use substitute, when you have at least 2 pokemon, it wll not create a substitute. when you bring your final mon out, at the start of the turn that mon will use substitute along with whatever else was stored in the queue.

Rule: The order the stored moves will be used is based on which entered the queue first.
If the a self inflincting status move is boosted by prankster or triage, and it's original priority is 0, it is still stored in the queue.

Strategy: Players have to choose between trying to defeat their opponents mons quickly, or try to take the time to store as many moves as possible. Players may even need to try to self destruct their own mons to bring out their final pokemon faster. Players may also try to trap other mons with shadow tag or arena trap to remove specific pokemon. Taunt becomes pretty useful in this meta. Minimize becomes evil.

Why Battle Spot Singles?: I feel it would be more manageable. 6v6 Might end up having teams that reach like +6 in all stats, Ingrain, Aqua Ring, Substitute, Focus Energy, etc.

Possible Bans: Unaware
Quick Bans: Not sure

Example trios:

Focus Energy

Blaziken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Focus Energy
- Blaze Kick
- Sky Uppercut
- Substitute

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut

Kingdra @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Focus Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump

Belly Drum Unburden

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Rock Slide

Azumarill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Agility
- Facade
- Substitute

Stored Power Belly Drum Iron Defense

Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stockpile
- Body Slam
- Crunch
- Recycle

Aegislash @ Lum Berry
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Claw
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Defense

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower

Questions:
Can it be easily programmed?
Should I try to reword the premise?
Does the idea sound fun?

The idea sounds very fun, but to my knowledge it might have difficulty being programmed. The premise is confusing and it took me a second read to figure it out.

How about: Status Moves is will not be used until the final pokemon when it is sent out.

Questions; If boosting moves are so great, will we see a core of three bulky boosters+Krookodile? Should power trip be banned? Should healing moves such as roost wait to be used as well?

 

[AquaticPanic]

Sounds like a bit of a mess tbh. If both sides will focus on stacking their moves, we would have not only a bunch of turns where literally nothing happens because both sides will use an status move. Even if you're focusing on defeating the foe so that it can't set up it's own moves, then you'll be screwed when the last mon comes (Whoch does create a pretty nice mindplay for the meta to be unique enough)

On the other hand, it also means recovery moves won't work on the mons using them, so you'll have to set-up without being able to recover. Regenerator comes to mind.

Either way, Taunt should probably either have it's mechanics changed or be banned. If you use taunt, when your last mon comes, the foe can't use their own moves, making the center of the meta redundant. Also opens up the question: Do stored moves fail when the last on is taunted?

Another move that will be greatly viable is Haze. Invalidates any kind of setting up the foe has. On the other hand, you'll have to play well so that you don't screw up your own setting up. Basically, try to knock all of the foe's set-uppers, then use haze, then set up yourself. This way, when your last mon comes, it'll first remove the foe's boosts, then boost on it's own.

All in all, sounds unique enough for a meta, tho a bit messy. I'm not sure if I would personally play it that much, but I'd give it a try at the least. It also creates pretty nice mindgaming with wether to knock the foe out before the status moves are used or if you should set up yourself, while also requiering at the least some teambuilding sinergy so that all mons could benefit from the moves.

 

[Kadabrium]

Didnt search through, has stabless-mons been brought up before? This could have many interpretations,and what i now have in mind is that pokemon can use any direct attack move but no longer have stab on any of them

 

[AquaticPanic]

Didnt search through, has stabless-mons been brought up before? This could have many interpretations,and what i now have in mind is that pokemon can use any direct attack move but no longer have stab on any of them

Haven't seen anything listed under the list (Linked in the OP of this thread) and don't remember anything like it from past gens. Although, personally, it doesn't sound like that big of a change to create a new meta. I highly doubt any mon will change it's viability so much because of the no bonus recieved rule. Worth giving it a shot for sure, but I think it's kinda risky to.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Seems like it would be pretty safe to unban Mega Lucario, at least.

 

[AquaticPanic]

After a while, I came up with a meta idea:

Gooed

Metagame premise: A Pokémon's base stat is determined by doubling the base stats of it's most unnevolved form. Mid-Stages are the average of both (Rounded up). Uber Based meta.

For an example, let's take a look at Magby's stats: 45 | 75 | 37 | 70 | 55 | 83
Thus, Magmortar's stats would be 90 | 150 | 74 | 140 | 110 | 166
And Magmar's base stats, determined by the average: 68 | 113 | 56 | 105 | 83 | 125

Quick Q&A:

Q: What about form changes / Megas?
A: Mix n Mega rules apply, which means the stat changes of the Mega are added to the new Base Stats.

Q: What if a stat goes over 255?
A: The stat will then be 255.

Q: If a Pokémon doesn't have an evolutionary line, does it count as it's "less evolved" form and gain the stat doubling?
A: No, not at all. This would leave an open room for too many broken things to run around, and it also doesn't make much sense considering the meta is based on a mon's evolutionary line.

Q: What about Shedinja?
A: It stays with 1 HP.

Q: Do Banned mons just get banned, or are they unnafected by the meta's rules?
A: Straight-up banned.

Q: Won't this be too simillar to LC / 350 Cup?
A: While I can't deny the simillarities, I believe the sheer ammount of relevant moves the mons gain, abilities that change and even typing, not every 350- mon being an LC (Relevant 350 Cup stuff like Smeargle and Staravia are different in this mod), not every LC being 350- (Like the above mentioned Magby), the mid-stages changing too, as well as Megas being a thing, and it being OU based are enough to create entirely different metas.

(This one below is kinda irrelevant)
Q: Why such an odd name for a metagame? What does the premisse have to do with goo?
A: This is based on Goomy's evolutionary line. Goodra's stats are Goomy's stats doubled, with Sliggoo being the average of both.


Potential Threats:

New stats: 255 | 140 | 70 | 140 | 70 | 120
With great mixed offenses, Speed and even a fine bulk, Wailord can definetly see some use here. You do not want to switch in on a Water Spout from this thing.

New stats: 80 | 60 | 60 | 110 | 60 | 170
Pelipper is OU in vanilla, but here it has a totally different reason to it's viability and in terms of how it will abuse Rain. It now is a speedy Glass Cannon, abusing Hurricane under the Rain it summons, as well as a way to pivot in U-Turn, and heavy-hitting Water moves.

New stats: 70 | 90 | 255 | 60 | 90 | 140
While the offensive stats aren't that good, it has a respectable Speed tier and a good ability in Sheer Force. It can be a somewhat bulky mon but more offensively oriented now. Also let's appreciate the fact that Steelix is faster than Koko.

New stats: 94 | 164 | 114 | 84 | 94 | 126
No longer being so frail, and with the unique but devastating Ice / Fighting type, Crabominable gains a fantastic new role. With a huge Attack stat, and scarfable 126 Speed, as well as a great offensive STAB combo (Which is further expanded by Equake), Crabominable is a great threat.


Decreased Viability:

New stats: 40 | 20 | 110 | 30 | 40 | 160 and 40 | 30 | 40 | 20 | 110 | 160
Well, it had to happen, unfortunatly. Even Mega Gyarados isn't viable now.



Potential Bans:

New stats: 180 | 110 | 150 | 120 | 150 | 60
A new pink blob has arived. It only has Wish as a recovery move, but is still pretty impressive in terms of Bulk, and it ain't no sitting suck either. Oblivious make it so it's not Taunt bait at all. Only recovery it has is Wish, tho.

New stats: 180 | 130 | 130 | 80 | 80 | 30
A bulk of 180 / 130 / 80 is nothing to laugh at. Specially with Regenerator. And then you see the 130 base Attack stat. Remember, it also has belly Drum. You can also use both on the same team.

New stats: 120 | 120 | 120 | 170 | 170 | 170
The stats say by themselves. Where's your Llama God now that Mismagius has a better stat spread than it?


Quickbans:

New stats: 140 | 220 | 160 | 110 | 160 | 210
1000 BST. No thanks.

New stats: 190 | 190 | 190 | 190 | 190 | 118
Speaks for itself.

New stats: 180 | 130 | 200 | 110 | 80 | 30
180 / 200 Physical bulk with a direct way to regain HP? This ain't going to stick around.



Questions for the Comunity:

- Currently, none

 

[Champion Leon]

Metagame Name: Loyalty

Metagame premise: For each teammate that shares a Type with your Lead Pokemon, your Lead Pokemon gets + 1 to a stat, correlating to Team order, or + 2 if it shares both types. *Boosts occur upon switch-in as stats are calculated on your type upon switch-in. Order from slots 2-6: Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed.

I.e. If your lead Pokemon is Gyarados, and it’s teammate in the 3rd team slot is Pelipper, and it’s teammate in the 6th team slot is Swampert, then it will get + 2 to Defense, and +1 to Speed.
If Gyarados Mega Evolves, and then switches out, when it switches in, then it will get boosts based on which teammates are either Water, Dark, or both- Boosts are calculated upon type during the actual switch in.

Potential bans and threats: Simple, Stored Power, Power Trip.

Espeon will be very powerful and suspect-worthy, given that it can avoid Status moves due to Magic Bounce and then Immediately use Stored Power to Hit hard with no setup required. Calm Mind, however, can be used now that it can take advantage of Speed, Special Defense, and Defense boosts to survive hits and power up.

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power (Fighting)

Having 2 types combined with Simple allows Swoobat to grab + 4 to any stat that Xatu is placed in, while also being able to switch to it for status moves and hazard control. Further, Psychic Seed provides a + 2 Boost to Special Defense with Tapu Lele upon Switch-in, while Starf Berry grants + 4 to a random stat, with emphasis on safely boosting Stored Power’s Damage.

Swoobat @ Psychic Seed / Starf Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind/Substitute
- Stored Power
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

Goal: Not only are Pokemon with two-types encouraged, but Pokémon that share those types are brought into the fold, adding more versality in what makes a teammate “good”. Further, strategy is placed on where your teammates are slotted before battle, as being able to see your opponents team means you can determine which Pokémon will serve as your lead, and which Pokémon will serve as a Boost in the most demanded stat.

Should I cap the stat boost from teammates, such as +1 per stat - even if the Lead Pokemon shares both types?
Is Stored Power going to be overpowered?

 

[Ivy]

- Should banned mons (Aside from megas) just be banned or retain their base stats?
- Should the name be changed for something more fitting?
- Should Megas work the way they do in Mix n Mega, applying their stat changes to the new stats, so that most of them aren't overshadowed by their base forms?

I'd say change it to an Uber based meta, as a lot of the LC Uber gen 4 evolutions are extremely strong. Then you'd only have to ban the worst of the worst like Scizor. They would have to be a hard ban because excluding only certain mons from the rules of the meta is complex and pet mod-y. A lot of things have over 800 BST so even regular Ubers seem likely to be ouclassed. (You could whitelist Mega Ray, quite frankly)
Gooed is literally a perfect name in concept; I'd never known of this little trivia tidbit until now! Alternatively you can call it "Gen 4 Evolutions Revenge".
Absolutely +1 to the M&M style Mega stat distribution. Some of them look ridiculous but again, they can't hold other items like Choice stuff.
Some contenders:

• Tangrowth: 130/110/230/200/80/120:870 Absolutely balls to the wall bonkers. Up there with Slowpoke's brothers
• Naganadel: 134/146/134/146/134/146:840 Actually looks pretty cute in comparison but has access to the classic Beast Boost
• Swoobat: 130/90/86/110/86/144:646 I guess Unaware won't really be existing at all in this meta, but who could have expected otherwise
• Porygon-Z: 130/120/140/170/150/80:790 I have no mouth but I must scream
• Honchkrow: 120/170/84/170/84/182:810 Packs a Sucker Punch
• Ambipom: 110/140/110/80/110/170:720 *slaps u with tail*
• Weavile: 110/190/110/70/150/230:860 Maybe, slightly, overpowered. Just a little bit. Smell ya later Mega Rayquaza.
• Chansey: 150/7/7/45/ I give up, this thing has absolutely been shafted
• Gothitelle: 90/60/100/110/130/90:580 Slightly thicker than normal
• Slurpuff: 124/96/132/118/114/98:682 Again somewhat better than normal (as you can see i'm just perusing the LC Uber banlist). Nice webs setter or cupcake attacker
• Yanmega: 130/130/90/150/90/190:780 Zoo Wee Mama! Maybe this can remove AV Tangrowth...
• Ferrothorn: 88/100/182/48/172/20:610 Spiky McHuge. Kinda similar to Toxapex, speaking of which...
• Toxapex: 100/106/124/86/104/90:610 Strictly worse optimized apart from HP, rip
• Mienshao: 90/170/100/110/100/130:700 Same as Mienfoo in 350cup. Is it good? Looks like it at first glance.
• Rapidash: 100/170/110/130/130/180:820 Pretty rapid indeed. This looks like a meaty one
• Electivire: 90/126/74/130/110/190:720 Who's slow now!?
• Magmortar: 90/150/74/140/110/166:730 Can still be a solid assvest user, incidentally
• All Eeveelutions: 110/110/100/90/130/110:650 A lot tankier and a lot less specialized. Pretty tangential move
• Forretress: 100/130/180/70/70/30:580 Improvement. But not by a whole lot. Takes a lot of gusto to reach Tangrowth/Slowbro's level
• Donphan: 180/120/120/80/80/80:660 F-A-T, yeah you know me. Almost as good as Wailord with a nice typing and support movepool.
• Munchlax: 255/170/80/80/170/10:765 Belly Drum access, nigh insurmountable defenses akin to those of Sablenite Blissey... do I smell a quickban?
• Gliscor: 130/150/210/70/130/170:860 Poison Heal, gigantic defenses and Speed, Sub+SD and status immunity...
• Xatu: 80/100/90/140/90/140:640 If it's Magic Bounce you seek, Espeon is who you want... Admittedly, this is a lot more offensively capable
• Ursaring: 120/160/100/100/100/80:660 Could maybe benefit from Quick Feet. Basically a functional Slaking; sadly, even that is seemingly outclassed
• Electrode: 80/60/100/110/110/200:660 This still does nothing
• Mandibuzz: 140/110/150/90/130/120:740 Can basically adopt the LC Vullaby sets and put them to GOOD work (lacks Weak Armor though) or just be ridiculously bulky. Like Gliscor but actually possible to wear down
• Tyrantrum: 116/178/154/90/90/96:724 A little Dragon Dance goes a long way
• Flygon: 90/200/90/90/90/20:580 On the other hand, this thing would be better off just going Band
• Carracosta: 108/176/206/106/90/44:710 Max speed shell smash?
• Omastar: 70/80/200/180/110/70:710 Special Shell Smash user
• Kabutops: 60/160/180/110/90/110:710 Just... more Smashing
• Bewear: 140/150/100/90/100/100:680 Now THIS is Slaking Redux
• Probopass: 60/90/255/90/180/60:735 Inverse of Wailord and basically a less specialized Shuckle
• Volcarona: 110/170/110/100/110/120:720 Essentially now goes fully physical, but a quiver dance isn't totally out of the repertoire
• Meowstic M/F: 124/96/108/126/120/136:710 Don't know what these would do, but they exist
• Archeops: 110/224/90/148/90/140:802 Despite the BST it is still awful
• Armaldo: 90/190/100/80/100/150:710 with SWIFT SWIM. Very nice

Megas with the proposed M&M stone model:

• Mega Beedrill (lol, weedle): 80/130/60/10/40/170:490 Poor bastard doesn't even square up with its normal self apart from speed
• Mega Alakazam: 50/40/50/250/120/210:720
• Mega Lucario: 80/175/98/95/80/142:670 Tame by the standards of this meta, pretty much has to go full physical
• Mega Altaria: 90/120/140/120/150/100:720 Pretty decent for dragon dance
• Mega Banette: 88/200/80/136/86/100:690 Very strong, pranky boy, overall better than the original but probably not worth the mega slot
• Mega Blastoise: 84/116/150/150/138/86:728 Well-rounded and enjoys a slightly stronger mega launcher
• Mega Blaziken: 90/160/90/160/110/110:720 Just an overall upgrade, Attack remains the same, no complaints
• Mega Camerupt: 120/140/110/170/120/50:710 Again, upgrade. Lots of megas are just scaled up nicely to contend with the ultra power creep.
• Mega Charizard X: 78/150/119/141/100/130:718 Upgrade Complete. Another dragon dancer on the pile
• Mega Charizard Y: 78/124/86/170/130/130:718 Teeny tiny upgrade
• Mega Garchomp: 116/180/110/120/100/70:700 Sidegrade, and a bad one at that. Why did I even bother. Regular chomp still has a meager 80 speed. RIP
• Mega Gengar: 60/70/80/240/90/180:720 Gets revenged on by mega zam, worthless, 0/10
• Mega Glalie: 100/140/100/140/100/120:700 +20 All Stats Up. Still mediocre
• Mega Houndoom: 90/120/100/190/110/150:760 Goes to show that BST doesn't mean everything. Still a decently fast pupper
• Mega Lopunny: 110/192/98/88/112/200:800
• Mega Manectric: 80/90/100/160/100/160:690 Eh...
• Mega Metagross: 80/120/180/80/140/100:700 What happened to you, O mighty one...
• Mega Pidgeot: 80/90/85/135/80/132:602 Slightly faster. Pretzels is the same
• Mega Salamence: 90/160/170/90/70/120:700 Physical attacker and "wall". Strange
• Mega Sceptile: 80/115/80/170/110/165:720 Maybe it can live one HP Ice
• Mega Sharpedo: 90/200/70/145/65/140:710 Slightly bulkier, a heckload stronger, and ready to capitalize on some speed boosts
• Mega Steelix: 70/130/255/60/120/140:775 A juicy BST but really would rather stay as regular Steelix for Sheer Force.
• Mega Swampert: 100/180/120/110/120/90:720 Can hopefully use this bit of extra speed to outspeed these other fast bastards in the rain
• Mega Tyranitar: 100/158/140/90/120/92:700 Move along, nothing to see here
• Mega Venusaur: 90/116/138/152/150/90:736 Fat, but is it fat enough?
• Mega Rayquaza: 105/180/100/180/100/115:780 Gets an honorable mention because it can hold items. Up there with the greats like Yanmega and Naganadel.

 

[Gliwick]

This Gooed meta looks somewhat similar to 350 Cup

 

[Ivy]

This Gooed meta looks somewhat similar to 350 Cup

The more I look at it the more it seems like 350 cup but with no limit, lol. Still, the fact that it's the actual final forms inheriting the stats (by extension, Mega Evolutions can also exist) and that there's this absurd power creep of 800+BST mons running about make it pretty distinct.

 

[Nospho Dhemmos]

Mega Medicham has 60/120/120/100/120/140. His attack after pure power is amazing, but unfortunately he is frail and it seems that lots of things outspeed it (even though it is not really slow). If only it could holf items...

Some more pokemon

Mismagius: 120/120/120/170/170/170 (870 BST): Shadow ball is pretty spammable, and mismagius has acess to Dazzling Gleam to have perfect coverage, bar Pyroar (which i don't think its very good). It also has some nice coverage options, like Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Mystical Fire (which lowers the enemy sp atk by 1 stage, making it take even less from special attackers), Power Gem, and Psychic, and on top of that it can boost with Calm Mind or the better option, Nasty Plot. As a bonus, it also has some support moves in Foul Play, Destiny Bond, Will'o Wisp, Thunderwave, Trick, Taunt, and Heal Bell, plus some (not good) recovery with Pain Split. It even has priority in Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, though i dont think its attack stat is very useful for that.

M-Aggron: 100/170/250/80/100/60 (760 BST): Good Attack and Huge Defense, but still slow.

Kingler: 60/210/180/50/50/100 (650 BST): It is garbage, i just listed it here to point it out that this has 210 atk WITH SHEER FORCE

 

[Pikachuun]

so i've had this metagame idea in the back of my head for a while now and i figured i may as well get it out there to see what people think about it

Pluripotence​

Ever think to yourself: "Man BH is somehow more restrictive than I thought, there's always this stuck MMY bring a counter to that oh no i gotta use Yveltal/Solgaleo... Kartana? oh no i gotta bring zygarde" or similar? Well I may or may not have a solution to that.
In this BH-based meta, you (almost) have full control over what exactly your Pokemon is! This is done by a few mechanics.

1. Your EVs determine your base stats.
A glaring issue is that in BH, where there's no theoretical EV limit, there's no reason to not slap 252 on everything in this sort of meta and have a bulky stally whatever powerhouse.
The solution is to implement a 510 EV limit during teambuilding, then give 252 EVs to that stat when the battle actually starts. This means you have 510 stat points to play around with... well not really, it's more like 330 as you'll see in a bit, yet still have the BH standard maximum EVs everywhere that you know and love.
Additionally, if you were to look at the list of rejected OMs, this concept has already been played with before. The primary issue I would see with this is extreme min-maxing. You can just slap 252 EVs in Attack and Speed and have a physically focused Deo-A on steroids.
The solution is to force a minimum EV value of 30 in each stat. This way, the min-maxiest you can get is something like 255/127/30/30/30/30. In addition, all stats (with the exception of HP because Chansey/Blissey exists) are limited to 180. I think 30/180/60/30/30/180 is a bit more manageable than 30/255/30/30/30/127 from an "yea i can wall this" standpoint.

2. Your typing is determined by a combination of the Pokemon you choose and your IVs.
This means you can't just run an epic meme team of 6 Magikarps unless you really want 6 water types.
The IV formula is floor(((HP&2)/2 + (Atk&2) + 2*(Def&2) + 4*(Spe&2) + 8*(SpA&2) + 16*(SpD&2))*17/63), which will give you the ID of your second type!
Since I see half of you cringing at whatever garbage I just said, let me put it in simpler terms: Do you remember that old formula that was used to determine the base power of your Hidden Power? Yeah, it's exactly like that. I just stuck Normal at 0 and Fairy at 17 then sandwiched the rest of the types in between in the same order.
All IVs are rounded up to 3 + 4n after calculation such that it won't matter in the end what you end up picking, you'll still have those juicy 31 IVs (or 3 at minimum). I put every IV spread alongside its typing in this pastebin for your convenience.

3. All Pokemon-specific mechanics are removed.
This means that abilities like Disguise are non-functional, items such as Light Ball and Eviolite are useless, and moves like Hyperspace Fury and Clangorous Soulblaze are unusable. Last but certainly not least, Mega-Evolution (or any forme change for that matter) is effectively removed and Shedinja is not hardcoded to 1 HP.
This is done to prevent overcentralization of particular mons, or to say that only NFEs should be used as it's inferior to not do so, etc. Everything has a mostly blank slate.

4. While not a mechanic, the results of the first two mechanics will be displayed during the match.
It's no fun to have to guess what a Pokemon is from the ground up solely based on its primary type. In Inheritance, you can get by with just team preview because you'll know the types and stat spread of a Pokemon will have a set of important donors from team preview. But what if you don't know the stat spread or typing..? That makes things harder.
In other words, the stat spread you chose, as well as the Pokemon's typing, will be displayed on Team Preview, as well as during the battle as you'd expect. This will let you use your problem-solving to take a stab at what the other things you normally wouldn't know are, while still being fair!

Contrasts and Comparisons:
Due to the low BST distribution as well as every typing now actually being possible, there are a lot more roles that can be fulfilled.
Say you're fighting a Psychic Terrain user. While you could go for the juicy Steel/Psychic type or Dark type wall of choice, why not go for some other mon? Perhaps it could be a Normal/Psychic type to take advantage of it yourself while blocking the ineivtable Moongeist beam. Or if you're afraid of Fighting coverage getting you down, a pure Psychic type wall is also an option now! If Ground/Fire types are annoying you with their Desolate Land boosted V-Creates coupled with PBlades, you can now unironically run a Primordial Sea Bug/Water type to beat it.
Offense gets a boon as well, since Marshadow-esque type combinations and that synergy you always wanted are finally possible. Wanted to abuse that juicy Fairy + Ground coverage? Now you can! Wanted some actually viable abusers of Electric or Grassy terrain? Look no further.

There are still some similar things to BH that you need to prep for, like Normalize, the terrains, hard hitters (from a more general standpoint) as well as hard walls, Imposter, that sort of thing. If it didn't necessarily rely on a single mon before, it's most likely not gonna change here. Keep your guard up!
Speed tiers are always a thing in BH because slow pivots will always be a thing, and they are similar in nature, but more homogenized. If you want to hit specific benchmarks, adjusting your stat points and IVs accordingly is surely the way to go (or level if you want to go down that path).

Banlist:
All BH bans except PDon.

PAQ:
"Why did you choose 510 EVs as a limit? Why not 720 like Arceus, 600 like most pseudo-legends, or others?"
510 is the most intuitive to most people, since that's the default limit for EVs, as well as the one that seems the most balanced to me personally. Since there is no HP limit, there's nothing to stop people from going "255/45/180/30/180/30 on all mons i win" if i were to make it 720, for instance. That would probably be way too stally of a meta for anyone's taste.

"Why did you choose 30 EVs as a lower bound?"
I felt that this would prevent extreme min-maxing enough. I'm willing to change this if necessary... keep in mind that every EV lower bound you suggest means you effectively add/subctract 6 to the "free pool" so don't go too crazy with this. (setting it to 20 gives you 60 extra points to work with...)

"Why is HP the only unlimited stat?"
Most Pokemon's stats (not counting megas) have been limited at 180. There are very few exceptions to this rule. Also Imposter still probably needs to be viable in order for any meta like this to be balanced.

"Why is the method to determine a secondary type so complicated?"
Well, normally I'd just say "use hidden power types ez" but this means that Pure Fairy and Normal types cannot exist (or anything with secondary types like that for that matter). This allows for the most diversity while still using a relatively familiar formula. I'd use nicknames but name-based OMs aren't really the best ideas...

"Can I make my Pokemon shiny so that the pri-"
Can't you just use a different Pokemon with the primary type you actually want?

"Is this even codeable?"
Yes. i even already got a lot done, just need to figure out how illusion/transform will display/update and it'll be done guys i promise

Questions for the Community:
Does this meta seem complex? BH can already been seen as weird as it is so ignore that aspect of it, but I tried to make the new mechanics either as simple as possible, readily providable, or familiar in nature.
Is the stat limit balanced? While this is something that is best found out through testing, I want to try and keep offensive and defensive playstyles alike in terms of strength. I don't want to do anything more complex in limitations than "HP is the only stat that has no upper bound, otherwise range is 30-180," so really the one thing I think I can do is tinker with the base stat limit.
How should bans be handled? The nature of this metagame makes it such that individual Pokemon don't exist, so it's not as simple as banning PDon. Should only moves, items, and abilities be banned, or is there some way to handle stat spreads/typing?