Just got into playing Sun/Moon and have played a lot with the new offensive sweepers. Out of all of them, Porygon-Z has been my go to. I've found Ghost-type Z-conversion sweeps incredibly easy to pull off, especially with dual screen / lunar dance support from the likes of Cress. The +1 Def and SpD after z-move goes along way in keeping Porygon alive while setting up or finishing its sweep.
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celticpride
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can we talk about rain and how good kabutops is right now?
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 328-386 (95.3 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 269-317 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 199-235 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 269-317 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
It can do a good amount of damage to the majority of the metagame making it an excellent late game sweeper. The biggest thing that makes it stand out now is that we now have an amazing rain setter. Because pelliper has u-turn, kabutops has a much easier time getting in. Also, with psychic terrain, priority is not a reliable way to deal with it.
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 328-386 (95.3 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 269-317 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 199-235 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 269-317 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
It can do a good amount of damage to the majority of the metagame making it an excellent late game sweeper. The biggest thing that makes it stand out now is that we now have an amazing rain setter. Because pelliper has u-turn, kabutops has a much easier time getting in. Also, with psychic terrain, priority is not a reliable way to deal with it.
Talk about bringing back the dead, but think you will get around to that trick room discussion again? Seems very viable.
Are they calc'd under rain?
Megagross is just broken. It tanks basically everything and 1shots back with all types of coverage. You can't even switch in a mandibuzz into this thing bcause ice punch will blow you away. Megas aren't rly doing that much so far imo but mega metagross is just on a another level.
Maybe it is just me but if I'm facing a mega metagross there aren't rly any switch ins for it... am I leaving sth behind?
Maybe it is just me but if I'm facing a mega metagross there aren't rly any switch ins for it... am I leaving sth behind?
Ok thanks
Is it worth it to run multiple hazards on your team if you're planning on using Defog as your means of hazard clearing over Rapid Spin? It feels sort of counterintuitive since you'll likely end up wiping your own stuff away more often than not. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this--wasn't sure if this was a simple question or not.
Right you are. If your game is going to be stacking hazards (stall or a hyper offense lead) Defog is not the way to go.
Rapid Spin all the way.
in addition to what Shurtugal said, Aura Sphere deals pitiful damage on Scizor and Genesect so if you need reliable checks for them if you're not running HP Fire
+ 252 SpA Magearna Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 112-132 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yes. 99% of the time when you will be using kabutops, he will be in rain. Not to mention the fact that you get outsped and Ohko'd if you are outside of rain
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Mega metagross isn't much better than it was in oras. It still has the same problem of 4 move slot syndrome. You can generally switch in celesteela/skarm because thunderpunch is very rare on it.
Here's a core I've been liking
4 attacks E-belt Genesect + DD Zygarde is excellent. Genesect serves as a strong lure to take out Zygarde's checks and then Zygarde sets up late game. Speed EVs on Zygarde are to outspeed max speed celesteela so you can get a substitute up on their Leech Seed, otherwise max attack and special defense. Anyone got a better spread for this?
Genesect set is a result of a lot of tweaking. Flash Cannon is a reliable STAB, rest is the standard 3 attacks. Great early game for preventing setup sweepers, good coverage against bulkier teams to hit almost everything neutrally. Also a lot of pokemon giving out free special attack boosts at the moment.
Things that hurt this core: HP Fire Latios, Scarf Lele, Bulkier Zygardes, Rain
Genesect @ Expert Belt
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
4 attacks E-belt Genesect + DD Zygarde is excellent. Genesect serves as a strong lure to take out Zygarde's checks and then Zygarde sets up late game. Speed EVs on Zygarde are to outspeed max speed celesteela so you can get a substitute up on their Leech Seed, otherwise max attack and special defense. Anyone got a better spread for this?
Genesect set is a result of a lot of tweaking. Flash Cannon is a reliable STAB, rest is the standard 3 attacks. Great early game for preventing setup sweepers, good coverage against bulkier teams to hit almost everything neutrally. Also a lot of pokemon giving out free special attack boosts at the moment.
Things that hurt this core: HP Fire Latios, Scarf Lele, Bulkier Zygardes, Rain
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yeah that's not good in comparison to the amount of coverage that HP Fire allows, especially when Heatran and Magnezone are easier to account for
OK, so lately I've stolen team from blunder who stolen it from ABR. And I have a lot of succes with that. Here is proof me being on top of the ladder.
Here is team: http://pastebin.com/UreDH82L
Original verison had tapu koko over crawndaut and scarf latios but I don't think that tapu koko is really that good and this team really needs good wallbreaker to not autolose against stall. Overall very nice team, hard to beat but has weakness to scarf tapu lele. You have to win 50/50s in oreder to prevail or keep genesect healthy as long tapu is alive.
I don't making RMT topic only because I did not build that. I just change few things.
Original verison had tapu koko over crawndaut and scarf latios but I don't think that tapu koko is really that good and this team really needs good wallbreaker to not autolose against stall. Overall very nice team, hard to beat but has weakness to scarf tapu lele. You have to win 50/50s in oreder to prevail or keep genesect healthy as long tapu is alive.
I don't making RMT topic only because I did not build that. I just change few things.
(Wait what is considered high ladder?)
(Also doesn't that belong in SM OU Bazar?)
(They originally had koko + amo what kind of garbage building??)
(Recovery latios isnt that great this meta it'd be much better using Z-memento or scarf like it was originally.)
@ the one guy who posted aura sphere calc: a near 2hko is not nearly as valuable as a ohko from hp fire, so idk what you were trying to imply with that calc?
For the zygarde / gene post, I recommend trying z-ground on zygarde over leftovers since you're dd anyway. Z ground let's you bypass tapu fini and other generally fat mons which is nice. idk how I feel abt eb gene but gene anything is undeniably good, and I imagine it does lure out many things. eb gene could probably be used with a lot more than just zygarde.
(Also doesn't that belong in SM OU Bazar?)
(They originally had koko + amo what kind of garbage building??)
(Recovery latios isnt that great this meta it'd be much better using Z-memento or scarf like it was originally.)
@ the one guy who posted aura sphere calc: a near 2hko is not nearly as valuable as a ohko from hp fire, so idk what you were trying to imply with that calc?
For the zygarde / gene post, I recommend trying z-ground on zygarde over leftovers since you're dd anyway. Z ground let's you bypass tapu fini and other generally fat mons which is nice. idk how I feel abt eb gene but gene anything is undeniably good, and I imagine it does lure out many things. eb gene could probably be used with a lot more than just zygarde.
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I'd go far to say top 500 is a accomplishment for most. I'm like 70ish atm but I could probably get into top 25 or so after a couple battles today. I replaced bandnite with bandgene and it did wonders for my team. Like I said a few days ago pokemon is super busted. Paired with stuff like scarf lele and phero it gives your opponent few free turns to do much and also helped my teams mu with stall considerably because it pressures them too heavily. I think stall is pretty annoying but not terribly strong and some of the people running stall are not that good and let the team play itself and are prone to chokes.
Also MZam is amazing right now. I know lele and it are completely redundant but most teams do not have enough checks to take on both of them. most teams deal with them with mgross and all it takes is one shadow ball on the switch and he can't switch in on anything again. Plus trace is such a underated ability this gen. I remember it was a match where I was able to reverse sweep a team under psychic terrain and rain after tracing swift swim. Was dirty. He's definitely the most splashable mega right now to me.
I've been using something similar to that core. I lost my u-turn part of it cause i needed an answer to some threats so it doesn't work as well, but it still works good. I've been running AV Magearna with hp fire and volt switch along with arcanine and alomola (I play prebank OU) and it works out well since Magearna can tank hits both physically and specially and if a ground user like garchomp comes in I just switch out to Alomola which can take hits from just about any physical attacker all day like its nothing and then burn them with scald. Arcanine works wonders because of some of the more nasty bugs running around, I really only have to watch out for magnazone traping Magearna (but thats what hp fire is for anyway) and Toxapex is a pain in the butt to deal with but is very managable once its the only thing left.
Lucky for us we can volt turn out of trapping abilities and moves iirc, so magearna doesn't even care about magnezone anyway...and with AV I'd be inclined to stay in and win, but I haven't checked calcs yet
Parting Shot breaks traps too I think.
edit for autocorrect
Parting Shot breaks traps too I think.
edit for autocorrect
I like AV Magearna and Lando-T as well. I run it with Ash-Greninja and Pheromosa to make more of a VoltTurn core and it's phenomenal. The slow U-Turn brings the frail attackers in, and they can switch out to the bulkier ones and it works really well.
I love the idea of Wish support with the core as neither have recovery, but, as someone who's never used Alomomola before, I don't know if it's too passive for my tastes.
I love the idea of Wish support with the core as neither have recovery, but, as someone who's never used Alomomola before, I don't know if it's too passive for my tastes.
You could try Jirachi. It can provide Wish support, has access to U-turn, and is a great blanket check to a lot of stuff in the meta right now. Really great pokemon, but it suffers from all the STAB U-turners in the tier right now, but who doesn't.
I have to say, I'm loving the reliance on slow building momentum this generation. It's not like Generation 6 where everything just tries to slam priority and hyper offense and hope for the best. Terrain and weather now have a chance to flourish due to this new style, and it allows for so much more variety. Hell, I can even use Parasect again with Bulu / Pelipper support (Rain / Grass Terrain). Not to mention the buff that Leech Life gave it.
Parasect @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leech Life
- Spore
This thing is actually one hell of a physical wall, and the recovery levels with Leftovers, Dry Skin under Rain, Grass Terrain, and all of that is just fantastic. Usually you'll end up recovering 25%+ each turn, and now it has STAB Leech Life to recover even more HP, and Leech Seed. Access to Spore doesn't hurt either.
Parasect @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leech Life
- Spore
This thing is actually one hell of a physical wall, and the recovery levels with Leftovers, Dry Skin under Rain, Grass Terrain, and all of that is just fantastic. Usually you'll end up recovering 25%+ each turn, and now it has STAB Leech Life to recover even more HP, and Leech Seed. Access to Spore doesn't hurt either.
Color me ignorant, but what do you mean by "slow building momentum?"
You also mentioned rain. I personally like that the new Rain mon (Pelipper) has actual utility outside of rain setting (2 excellent STABS under rain, Roost, U-turn, random Knock Off). I've been considering it even on a non-dedicated rain team, personally.
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