Men's Rights

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aurora

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I've noticed that in several large internet forums, such as reddit and 4chan, people seem to be a tad biased towards women and their issues. While I'm all for gender equality and such, I think the feminist movement has hijacked the pressing importance of an equally valid issue - Men's Rights.

Feminism's mission was originally to achieve equality of the sexes, but these days it's clear that what feminists are really fighting for is male oppression. I don't want to hurt the sentiments of any feminists on Smogon, but it appears that under the guise of fighting "the patriarchy", you feminists are undermining the very principles of gender equality.

Consider, for instance, the hypocrisy of the typical feminist woman. Feminists are often enraged when people open doors for them, touting the "equality of both sexes" and claiming that "they don't need no man to open doors for them". That's all well and good - but if you hit a woman, you get quite the opposite response; "I'm a LADY! You can't hit me!". Hitting girls is a complete no-no in society, but females are free to slap men and violently assault their genitalia, and can afterwards claim "rape" and get off scot-free. So much for equality, eh feminists?

I sit in sad repose as I write this thread about this issue that concerns me deeply, but I am glad that there is a movement dedicated to reversing the evils that feminists and their agenda have inflicted upon modern society. It's called the Men's rights movement, and I am an MRA. We MRAs question feminism - does it really concern itself with any of us, or does it just seek to do away with slut-shaming and achieve absolute sexual liberation for women and women alone?

Already, the dating scene is a buyer's market for women. In order to woo a mate, men have to have to be in perfect shape, have a six pack, a six figure salary, a large penis, and be intelligent and funny too boot. Women, on the other hand, simply have to be above a 5/10 in looks - and they have makeup. Women exploit this fact by friendzoning men and leading them on to achieve personal gains. If men even dare to stand up, women can just blow on what has been termed "the rape whistle" - falsely accusing men of rape when they become too aware of the REAL feminist agenda.

Before you say "oh but there's MEN supporting feminism!" let me remind you of the fact that these so-called "men" are but friendzoned whiteknights - orbiters that women have put under their feminist charm. They think that they will "score" by being nice to women and supporting their agendas - however radical - while in reality these same women go behind their backs and bang every Chad Thundercock they see. Feminists want men to "be nice" to them and treat them as equals - but at the same time they want to be degraded and debased like the sluts they are. Hypocritical much, feminists?
 
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Uhhh I get the strong impression that this is just baiting and that the proper response is some snarky one liner but there are people who read this kind of thing seriously so I'll take the fall and address it seriously. Besides, you folk have much better snarky one liners anyways.

Ok first of all gender inequality is complicated, much more so than early feminists had to tackle. It is no obvious institutional oppression in the form of laws against women voting or owning property, but messy stuff like cultural traditions and the conventions of our language. It is also true that these modern issues often oppress men as much as they do women and that there are many ways that women have it better than men, but generally speaking, women still have it worse off than men. This is a really complicated issue that encompasses a lot of aspects of modern life- from the distribution of housework to the concept of the breadwinner to even seemingly trivial things like who takes who's last name.

Backlash is so hard to fight against as it's relatively easy to say something wrong that sounds appealing in some way but it takes a whole essay to adequately deconstruct it. Alright so one thing you said:

"does it just seek to do away with slut-shaming and achieve absolute sexual liberation for women and women alone?"

This is a really good example of enduring inequality. Women are heavily constrained in their sexuality. Again, not by law or force but by the attitudes and traditions of the culture. Consider the word slut. We have so many words for "sexually promiscuous female" like slut, whore, tramp, floozy, hussy, and my personal favourite, cumdumpster. But what kind of words exist for "sexually promiscuous male"? Player, stud... Uh even googling it the only other stuff I can find are esoteric things I've never heard of like "salty dog". But yeah even the words that do exist are actually kind of positive. Being called a player or a stud seems pretty desirable, whereas being called a slut or a whore isn't. I mean this double standard is pretty obvious to everyone and I completely just wasted my team writing this little paragraph. :P Pardon me about it's approaching 3 AM.

You know what fuck this I'm posting it. Even in a comically hyperbolic way like it is, this kind of talk is actually really harmful even when everyone gets the joke and it's important for someone to say "no that's wrong",
 
We have so many words for "sexually promiscuous female" like slut, whore, tramp, floozy, hussy, and my personal favourite, cumdumpster. But what kind of words exist for "sexually promiscuous male"? Player, stud...

guys who are too aggressive usually get the label 'creep', and yes that label does stick, and it does suck to be known as the creepy guy at every party.

anyway this is the perfect thread to to show off our new : v4 : smiley

:v4:

now THAT's a cumdumpster! just remove the spaces from ": v4 :" and you're good to go!
 
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HOLY SHIT I HATE THE SLUT V STUD ANALOGY BECAUSE IT ENTIRELY MISSES THE POINT.

Men are not the ones expected by society to facilitate sex, but rather expected as the ones to offer. So if a man gets a lot of return on his offers, GOOD ON YA MATE, because it's not up to him whether he gets the sexy time since he's not being asked for it. If a woman has lots of sexy time, she's viewed negatively because women are supposed to have the discretion to decide who they want to mate. It's that whole, "Master Key" vs "Shitty Lock" thing...

NOW WHETHER THAT NEGATIVE ATTITUDE IS RIGHT OR NOT IS A WHOLE OTHER BAG OF WORMS, BUT SERIOUSLY L2CULTUREANALYZE.


Also: chaos, if you were projecting any harder I'd be eating popcorn in a theatre.
 
You know, if I was fighting for equality for a group I belonged to, I'm pretty sure trying to make it socially acceptable to hit me would be pretty low on my list too. Do you realize how incredibly terrible that example is? Does anyone, of any gender or political affiliation, wake up in the morning and think, "Yes, the world would be much better if it was acceptable to hit me."

Yes, there's obviously a double standard there, and it's a double standard that (more or less) favours women. If you as a man have a problem with that, you should fight against it and try to convince people that it's not cool to hit dudes either. I would be happy to support the "men's rights" movement if things like that were actually all it was about, but it seems like all MRAs want to do is complain about how feminists are evil sluts and the "friend zone" and how horrible it is that women don't like their fedoras.
 
I would be happy to support the "men's rights" movement if things like that were actually all it was about, but it seems like all MRAs want to do is complain about how feminists are evil sluts and the "friend zone" and how horrible it is that women don't like their fedoras.

mfw when the OP is outtrolled
 
I agree with the OP. If you be for gender equality then open a door for me please. It's only fair.

The issue of "what feminists have become" reminds me of a good quote "when you obsess with the enemy you become the enemy". At first feminists were after gender equality and they were obsessed with women being oppressed that they not try to oppress men. Another thing I have an issue is how dirty the word cunt is. I mean, it means vagina. By that logic shouldn't cock be just as dirty? I mean it means penis. Penis vagina. Cock cunt. I call you a cock not an issue, I call you a cunt I'm suddenly a massive asshole.

But then again, the closer we get to gender equality the closer we get to communism and communism is wrong.
 
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I've been waiting for some time to try a social experiment of my own: November 19th is designated "International Men's day," a day created by the UN in exactly the same way to foster men's and father's rights and to give young men healthy role models in the new world. Obviously, nobody knows anything about it. I'm planning on posting stuff like "I'm proud to be a strong, independent man! Share this if you think men are strong and don't need women!" and seeing just how many people call me out for it.

I'll probably post something more serious later if this thread hasn't become a joke.
 
The issue of "what feminists have become" reminds me of a good quote "when you obsess with the enemy you become the enemy".

funny because that quote just sums up feminist haters who are always seeking for reasons to complain about women not likingvtheir neckbeards and posting threads on smogon where they complain about how they can't hit women
 
funny because that quote just sums up feminist haters who are always seeking for reasons to complain about women not likingvtheir neckbeards and posting threads on smogon where they complain about how they can't hit women
Not sure if this is a dig at me per say but instead of men hitting women and women hitting men we all could just not hit each other?
 
I agree with the OP. If you be for gender equality then open a door for me please. It's only fair.

The issue of "what feminists have become" reminds me of a good quote "when you obsess with the enemy you become the enemy". At first feminists were after gender equality and they were obsessed with women being oppressed that they not try to oppress men. Another thing I have an issue is how dirty the word cunt is. I mean, it means vagina. By that logic shouldn't cock be just as dirty? I mean it means penis. Penis vagina. Cock cunt. I call you a cock not an issue, I call you a cunt I'm suddenly a massive asshole.

But then again, the closer we get to gender equality the closer we get to communism and communism is wrong.
i don't think i can muster a coherent response to the last paragraph but you do realise women who don't like having the door opened for them by men generally don't like it because of the traditional paternalistic assumptions of feminine weakness that inform social norms like that? it can be really, really grating when you're constantly treated like you're physically incapable of performing simple day-to-day tasks (or patronised in other areas too), so i understand why some women feel that way

i'm a girl and i always opened the door for everyone as a matter of politeness before i got a walking frame, so now i gratefully accept having the door opened for me by anyone as it makes it a little easier to get through doors with pull handles, but i mean... it's like you're angry and jealous women get the door opened for them when the issue is completely the other way around. the feminist movement is not asking for men to ask doors for them last time i checked

first world problems yo

p.s. i think it's good to open the door for people indiscriminately rather than everyone trying to shove their way through it
 
i don't think i can muster a coherent response to the last paragraph but you do realise women who don't like having the door opened for them by men generally don't like it because of the traditional paternalistic assumptions of feminine weakness that inform social norms like that? it can be really, really grating when you're constantly treated like you're physically incapable of performing simple day-to-day tasks (or patronised in other areas too), so i understand why some women feel that way

i'm a girl and i always opened the door for everyone as a matter of politeness before i got a walking frame, so now i gratefully accept having the door opened for me by anyone as it makes it a little easier to get through doors with pull handles, but i mean... it's like you're angry and jealous women get the door opened for them when the issue is completely the other way around. the feminist movement is not asking for men to ask doors for them last time i checked

first world problems yo

p.s. i think it's good to open the door for people indiscriminately rather than everyone trying to shove their way through it
I appoligise if I offended. I didn't intend to offend anyone just pointing out flaws in somethings I see in the social norms. On the subject of opening doors I can speak from experience in my work where I'll open the door for everyone and the only people that don't say thank or open the door for me in return are certain women who, sadly, simply expect it.
 
Not sure if this is a dig at me per say but instead of men hitting women and women hitting men we all could just not hit each other?
not talking about you but OP's complains and this thread in general
The problem for me is that the feminism movement exists for a reason: women were treated like animals.
the whole movement tries to get equal rights for men and women, which is simply how the matter should be, at least for me, and I don't see how that's communism? If people understood that the entire problem with feminists comes from them, they wouldn't be so shocked that they're always crying for rape
I think you would be like that too if you were treated like shit for hundreds of years

there's the problem of OHGAWDRAEP women, but it's something that'll go away with time, at least if we aren't bitching about it on both sides
 
I appoligise if I offended. I didn't intend to offend anyone just pointing out flaws in somethings I see in the social norms. On the subject of opening doors I can speak from experience in my work where I'll open the door for everyone and the only people that don't say thank or open the door for me in return are certain women who, sadly, simply expect it.
it's not that i'm offended but thanks anyways, it's more like i was ???ing because i wasn't sure if you were intentionally misrepresenting the issue or not. i'm fairly sure we agree with each other that you should just open doors for everyone if you can.

i think that is honestly more a matter of politeness/personal preference. women are generally more accustomed to it because, yea, it's a social norm, chivalry is still embedded in our ideas about how women and men should interact even though it's consciously viewed as dated. the way you say certain women makes me suspect it is an individual issue though, you know there are always gonna be people who entitled and/or prop up harmful double standards because they feel it's the right thing, there are very many men in the world too who are extremely traditional

re. the genital insults my conclusion is that's actually a really interesting conversation and there's a lot of contention over lots of different questions it brings up but in its simplest form it's not because it's dirty or rude in a generalised form or whatever, it's because (especially in america, this seems to be something aus/uk feminists disagree on due to the different regional usage but i grew up with a father who exclusively uses it in the american sense towards women so you know) it has a history of being specifically used to either demean women (not in a 'general insult' way but often a type of misogynist criticism towards traits that are considered negative in a woman, such as meanness or frigidity, that isn't applied to men) or demean qualities that are socially read as feminine. i don't know where you live but if you don't live in an area where it's been watered down into a supposedly general epithet once you start paying attention to how often it's used to disparage women/the feminine it's actually quite remarkable
 
A lot of Western girls simply don't want to do housework and call it women rights... and find "get back into the kitchen" offensive even if they don't have a job.

My rules are, the one who doesn't work do the housework. If both works then either the busier one gets exempted or the less economically capable one gets over that working isn't his/ her thing. Fair and square, data properly quantized.

However, no one should say jerky things like "scientist? but you're a girl!" "Girl gamer? LOL"
Because although generally girls don't do well in these, it doesn't mean that all girls perform worse than the boys.
Each person has to be evaluated individually and not be judged through gender/ race/ age... blah blah blah.
Should keep in mind that stereotype breakers will always exist.

I know that most girls do poorly in stuff like physics/ maths, etc (including me, LOL), but one of my former classmates studied engineering in Oxford for bachelor, master AND PhD (she was actually on scholarship for the master and PhD)

But basically, everything has it's consequences. Nothing is all rights with no responsibility or drawbacks.
If somebody gets the rights but not the supposed responsibility that comes with it, then it is unfair.
She has to bear with the drawbacks that came with her lucky entry.
Also, girls in general need to study a lot harder in the fields of science. This is also the drawback she received.
She had to study everyday during her holidays in the library in order to keep up with the others. She didn't get to enjoy life like the others.


Who knows, maybe she gets to marry a very feminine man who's economically incapable and has to do the housework and cooking.
I don't know. Anyway, if I get to be the economically less capable one in the future, I'll do my housework properly.

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"oh but there's MEN supporting feminism!"
Depends if it is extreme feminism, or a milder form.

If it is an extreme form of feminism, these men are just like the white people who stood on Trayvon Martin's side and protested against the court's decision.

Incapable of judging things case by case.
I call it reversed and off balanced, and it is actually another form of sexism or racism.
Who says that being unfair to the supposingly stronger group isn't unfair?


"Feminists are often enraged when people open doors for them"
That's funny. I personally would enjoy bossing men around and have them do the mundane affairs. A guy who opens doors for ladies is going to be very popular in Hong Kong.
And we weren't happy that guys in the UK don't do these "gentlemen things" anymore.
 
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