Mega-Garchomp based team

[lyth_o]

MG & Crew
HIT AND RUN​

I. Team Development

​

I have been trying to build a team based on Mega-Garchomp.

I basically began with the fact that I liked Garchomp and Scizor and wanted to build a team with both of them. Then I found out about Mega-Garchomp and began wanting to make use of it. So I looked for a Sandstreamer and chose a Mixed Tyranitar to cover Special Attack.

So I tried to build something out of this core.

To help Mega-Garchomp with his speed trouble, I went for Galvantula with a Sticky Web. Rotom-W has a great synergy with Scizor and fits well in a sand team, he also adds another special attacker, which was necessary. So this added two utility / special attackers.

The last member is still questionable. First it was Forretress providing both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. Then various ideas came up... Blaziken, Jellicent (not available atm sadly), Gyarados... This member MUST :

• Cover Fight weakness of Tyranitar
• Not be weak to Fire
• Not be weak to Ice (Garchomp x4 is enough...) otherwise Garchomp cannot switch after him
• Not be weak to Ground

Jellicent was the perfect match actually but is not available for now. So I looked for another Spectre - which provides spinblock as well & it's cool - and found Gengar.

Now, up to now I had a Mixed Attacker Tyra with tremendous Special Defenses, which I liked a lot. But not having Stealth Rock is a shame when you got a Spinblocker, and Stealth Rock really is something to have. Also Stealth Rock + Sticky Web up will cause trouble. So now, Tyra should go support with Stealth Rock, Pursuit, Ice Beam, SuperPower. Hippowdon can provide the same except that he can't have pursuit, but would have a longer life. I'm still hesitating between the two.

Galvantula seems to create one big weakness in the line-up : a sweeper could simply switch-in when she casts web. Then the sweeper is already here when sticky web is up, and his speed isn't reduced... and this could just annihilate my whole team. So I need a more offensive start. I'm thinking about Blaziken Baton Pass @ Focus Sash !

In case Blaziken goes in Uber again because he's still so poweful, I'll use the new passive ability of Scolipede instead and rework team builds again.

II. Details & Analysis

Garchomp @ Mega-Stone
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Good coverage of threats. Garchomp can set himself up with SD if he has an occasion. Or wait for a Baton Pass.

Tyranitar @ LeftOvers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

The point of this Tyranitar is to Wall attacks and reset Sand / Stealth Rock. He's also a bait to Fighting types, lure them and switch Gengar in. In the case he switches on a Spectre, he will have Pursuit to deal severe damage. OHKOing is not his point, since the team will be kind of hit-and-run the whole time.

Since there is no longer the support of StickyWeb, Mega-Garchomp will probably enter at low speed into the Sand Storm most of the time. Sand Stream is actually more for "pressure" and "fear" than for a real use of Mega-Garchomp inside it now... Mega-Garchomp can enter Sand Storm without Baton Pass if the opponent can't outspeed him with a threatening pokemon.

At best, Mega-Garchomp, after Baton Pass, will have two turns in the Sand to sweep.

Baton Pass
Scolipede @ Mental Herb (Lead)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass

Let's force them to switch a lot and impose our rythm. Throw Spikes coupled with Stealth Rock. Baton Pass speed to anyone. Or SD to Scizor, Tyranitar or Garchomp.

Passing to Scizor will probably not be an idea since Scolipede calls for Fire attacks. But it will make it easier for Garchomp.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick

Rotom-W will trick pokemons who try to wall me. He will also provide a great STAB water, and STAB volt-switch to switch-out, which will work effectively against Skarmory - one big threat up to now.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 HP / 176 Def
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn

U-Turn is there to "keep momentum" when needed, also enables to escape a trap. This makes one volt-switch and one u-turn. I like the idea of a fast-paced offensive team...
Also, Scizor is a good bait for a fire pokemon. Which gives a perfect spot for Garchomp.

Defog lets me remove entry hazards that could prevent my switches. Roost makes Scizor bulkier and heals from life orb use. Bullet Punch is his main Stab.

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Trait : Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Disable

The usual Substitute / Disable Gengar, to create a weak spot for Garchomp or Scolipede.
Thanks to Black Sludge, Gengar will do well in a sand team.

Potentiel interesting pokemons for replacement of one include :

• Gyarados
• Blaziken
• Jellicent (not pokemon X/Y yet though, otherwise that would be him)
• Starmie (would imply team re-working)
• Slowbro
• Heatran (not pokemon X/Y yet though)

III. Basic usage

Scolipede goes first and ensures speed-boosted Garchomp enters very fast. He can already decimate the team.

If not, I can switch him out. Harass the opponent until Scolipede finds a weak spot and can Baton Pass Garchomp again. Or Garchomp finds a weak spot and sets himself alone.

As you can see, everything is about speed here.

• Scolipede easily outspeeds most pokemon real fast
• Gengar outspeeds lots of the unboosted tier
• Rotom choice scarf will only get beaten by other choice scarfs ?
• Scizor has a priority attack
• Garchomp gets speed boosts

Rotom-W & Gengar have 1/3 neutral coverage and 2/3 super effective coverage.
Rotom-W & Scizor have 3/4 neutral coverage and 1/4 super effective coverage. Only Dialga resists the coverage of their attacks.
Garchomp alone has 1/2 neutral coverage and 1/2 super effective coverage.
Tyranitar can't hit effectively : Terrakion, Keldeo, Poliwrath and that's it.
Thanks http://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage

All in all, the team has good attack coverage, switching capabilities & utility in the names of Gengar, Scizor & Rotom. Hit & Run is our moto.

IV. Counters ?

Team has been remastered, new counters to be found.

Your opinions and pieces of advice ?

 

[welsknight]

Garchomp @ Mega-Stone
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

I'm not sure Swords Dance is very necessary since the Mega-Stone already boosts Garchomp. Also, in fights I've made I usually did not need to use SD.

I put Dragon Claw instead of Outrage because I didnt have the time to breed an Outrage Garchomp yet.

Honestly, in this generation with the advent of fairies, I'd stick with Dragon Claw. Getting locked into Outrage can end up poorly if your opponent has a fairy team member, and lot of them are very popular right now (Togekiss, Azumarill, Klefki, Sylvean, Florges, etc).

Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Stone Edge

Kind of a weird use of Tyranitar. However, it gives him unexpected power since he is not expected on Special Attacks. Of course it cripples him on the Attack and he does not OHKO some pokemons he should otherwise... At first I didnt have special attackers in the team so that's why I went for it. I may change though. Looking for some advice here :)

Also, problem is he has lots of chances to miss an attack. Happens to me a LOT.

I would recommend using an Assault Vest over Focus Sash and putting some EVs from Speed into Special Defense. I think that adds a lot more to Tyranitar than a Focus Sash does. Also consider going Pursuit over Crunch for STAB switch damage, and Flamethrower over Fire Blast for improved accuracy (since you mentioned accuracy problems).

Galvantula @ Life Orb (Lead)
Trait: Compoundeyes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch

I have been very surprised and happy about this pokemon. Galvantula outspeeds a lot of pokemon, Sticky Web at least will be set most of the time. Also, Galvantula can deal a ton of damage with a "90% chance of hit" Thunder. If Galvantula outspeeds the pokemon, he can switch out with volt switch easily.

I'm wondering if Galvantula is good enough for OU though with sticky web... And maybe a pokemon with light screen or protection would be better to let Garchomp enter... and let him be outspeed, take minimized damage, and then rock'em'all.

Or a Baton Passer like Gliscor with Agility... could be awesome. Yet Sticky Web would help all the rest of the team.

I think this Galvantula build is just fine, although you might want to switch Life Orb for something else, such as a Focus Sash to ensure Sticky Web gets down.

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

I liked the idea of Volt Switching and "keeping momentum". However, I only faced one opponent against which it was necessary, maybe the only good one.

I like being able to cripple an Aegislash or walls - this kind of stuff - with a trick, gives some flexibility to the team. Finally Hydrop Pump deals a lot of damage.

Since you already have a STAB electric move in Volt Switch, I'd recommend going with Will-O-Wisp over Thunderbolt.

All right... So I can't have both rapid spin and stealth rock on a pokemon then. I got to choose between one of the two, or simply use neither... what can I do as a team that neither uses stealth rock nor rapid spin ? I still need protection from stealth rock if I want to switch a lot.

Teams that make heavy use of VoltTurn definitely need a form of hazard removal, either Rapid Spin or now with Gen 6, Defog. Scizor can learn Defog as an egg move.

I'm thinking I would love a Gliscor in my team. This pokemon is just too stylish :3 lol. And more importantly, he could do great as baton passer with agility for Garchomp. However, I'm not very familiar with baton passing chains...

A Baton Passer as support does not necessarily have to make use of an entire Baton Passing chain. Passing a single attack boost/speed boost onto one of your sweepers can make a big difference. Making use of a defensive Gliscor carrying Swords Dance might not be a bad idea, but I think you'd be better off with something that can pass Speed Boosts as Garchomp/Tyranitar are both pretty slow.

 

[lyth_o]

Thanks a lot for your reply. Very helpful.

Honestly, in this generation with the advent of fairies, I'd stick with Dragon Claw. Getting locked into Outrage can end up poorly if your opponent has a fairy team member, and lot of them are very popular right now (Togekiss, Azumarill, Klefki, Sylvean, Florges, etc).

What do you think of taking advantage of the SpA boost of Mega-Garchomp to replace SD by a Special Attack ? Would it be useful ? Considering my Tyranitar already assumes a mixed role, my answer would be "no"... but still, I'm unsure about SD on Mega-Garchomp.

I would recommend using an Assault Vest over Focus Sash and putting some EVs from Speed into Special Defense. I think that adds a lot more to Tyranitar than a Focus Sash does. Also consider going Pursuit over Crunch for STAB switch damage, and Flamethrower over Fire Blast for improved accuracy (since you mentioned accuracy problems).

This is interesting. That would make Tyranitar incredibly solid to Special Attacks. Which diminishes some of his weaknesses. He would still be OHKO'd by most fighting-type attacks though, but that's how it is I guess.
Pursuit makes more sense now with some heavy resistance to SpA. I like it. You are right about flamethrower. That's something I hesitated about. But with a bulkier Tyranitar, I guess flamethrower is better as well. I could not OHKO Venusaur, for instance, with Fire Blast anyway.

I think this Galvantula build is just fine, although you might want to switch Life Orb for something else, such as a Focus Sash to ensure Sticky Web gets down.

Yep. I had this on my mind as well. I'd have to try and see if Galvantula without Life Orb is powerful enough. Since I can't find a way to teach her Giga Drain, Life Orb is kinda painful it's true.

Since you already have a STAB electric move in Volt Switch, I'd recommend going with Will-O-Wisp over Thunderbolt.

Ok I will try this as well. However, since I got choice specs on, I'm not sure it is a useful move. Hidden Power Ice is a possibility too, although I'd rather not spend 100 years trying to get the IVs for it lol. Never done it.

now with Gen 6, Defog. Scizor can learn Defog as an egg move.

I'm afraid Defog removes Sticky Web as well. Sadly for me. I can't use Defog and Sticky Web :/

EDIT : Excadrill probably won't go into Uber this time because of changes made to SandStorm. Excadrill would be a good rapid spinner choice here. What do you think ? The main problem is to ensure that Sandstorm is on when he goes in, since the Lead is Galvantula and not Tyranitar. Another trouble is the weakness to combat that is too widely spread in my team. Even pokemon that resist it such as Galvantula may die of it because of the poor defense. Only Scizor is really strong to it. Another choice would be Starmie, but there also, Starmie is not pretty resistant, and doesn't fit well in SandStorm.

I could also get a defogger, just in case entry hazards annoy me and I want to remove them. Thus losing the benefit from sticky web for a time, but maybe just the time to kill the entry hazard setter. Thus being able to adapt to the opponent... In that case, I really MUST think of a sideways strategy to counter defog users as well, strategy I would be able to use also when I do the defog, lol. Defog is probably going to lead to many teams setting no entry hazard and just removing them.

A Baton Passer as support does not necessarily have to make use of an entire Baton Passing chain. Passing a single attack boost/speed boost onto one of your sweepers can make a big difference. Making use of a defensive Gliscor carrying Swords Dance might not be a bad idea, but I think you'd be better off with something that can pass Speed Boosts as Garchomp/Tyranitar are both pretty slow.

I was thinking of passing "Agility" which gives +2 Speed. That would work I guess.

 

[welsknight]

What do you think of taking advantage of the SpA boost of Mega-Garchomp to replace SD by a Special Attack ? Would it be useful ? Considering my Tyranitar already assumes a mixed role, my answer would be "no"... but still, I'm unsure about SD on Mega-Garchomp.

I think Mega-Garchomp is better as a physical attacker.

Yep. I had this on my mind as well. I'd have to try and see if Galvantula without Life Orb is powerful enough. Since I can't find a way to teach her Giga Drain, Life Orb is kinda painful it's true.

Another thing you may want to think about that I forgot to mention: if you put Infestation on Galvantula, you can keep a nasty surprise up your sleeve. Everyone expects Sticky Web from Galvantula as an opener; Infestation allows you to trap whoever is there (if they're not a threat to Galvantula, throw down sticky web, and then KO them).

Ok I will try this as well. However, since I got choice specs on, I'm not sure it is a useful move. Hidden Power Ice is a possibility too, although I'd rather not spend 100 years trying to get the IVs for it lol. Never done it.

Although Choice Specs hurts Will-O-Wisp's viability a little bit, it's still a very nice move to have in your arsenal, due mainly to the 50% reduction in physical attacking power. Even though spamming Will-O-Wisp isn't really viable, it's nice to at least have the option to use it in a pinch. You could also look at switching Choice Specs to something else.

I'm afraid Defog removes Sticky Web as well. Sadly for me. I can't use Defog and Sticky Web :/

In some situations, it's better to remove all the hazards (including your own), rather than leave the existing hazards in place. If you have down sticky web, and your opponent has managed to get down say, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, and a round of Spikes, Defog would definitely be nice to have. On my team, my Skarmory carries Stealth Rock and Defog. Although I'm fully aware than Defog will remove my Stealth Rock, sometimes, I'm better of using Defog and re-laying my hazards.

I was thinking of passing "Agility" which gives +2 Speed. That would work I guess.

Agility would be great too (probably better in the case of this team, honestly). I was just using Swords Dance as an example.

 

[urbsyno]

Sorry for nitpicking but you should switch "Spd" to "Spe". It's a bit confusing since "SpD" is usually used to indicate Special Def.

The most glaring weakness of you team is against Fire. You have 2 Pokemon with a devastating 4x weakness and another with a 2x weakness. Sure half your team is resistant but the other half will get 1-shot by non-STAB fire moves even without offensive stat investment. You can try your best to avoid them but Fire coverage is an absolute necessity on OU teams and will always show up. Either you're forced to play incredibly cautious to avoid off-type coverage moves or risk getting mauled by HPFire/FirePunch.


Here are some notes regarding your current lineup:

If Galvantula is your primary lead you will need to Focus Sash him. Even with a positive nature, he is speed tied with other leads such as Terrakion/Infernape and straight up loses to anyone with priority (Talonflame, Prankster). With a Sash, you are able to at least get Web up and keep him alive for a sweep later on.

The Tyranitar set needs a drastic makeover. Crunch and Stone Edge are your main STAB moves but have no Atk to back them up. The "surprise" factor isn't too useful since it's not enough to OHKO and the opponent will just adapt to it as it's revealed. I understand your need for a Special Sweeper but Tyranitar is not it. Focus Sash is an incredibly wasted item slot since his natural bulk prevents most OHKOs other than Fighting coverage. Also, with Tyranitar's lack of regeneration, hazards will often bust the sash anyways unless you lead with him (which isn't incredibly useful with that setup). I think going Leftovers (or possibly even Smooth Rock) with a SpD set would be a better course of action.

Mega Garchomp will have an incredibly hard time dealing with Skarmory. Not a fatal flaw but a common enough matchup to keep in mind. Maybe consider dropping SD for Fire Fang (although with web up, SD becomes devastating).

With a Choice Spec Rotom-W set, switch Thunderbolt to a coverage move (HP Ice). Be wary of using Trick on Aegislash as people are slowly figuring out that Special/Mixed Aegislash outclasses SD Aegislash.

Switch Scizor to a more standard setup. Even with Spe investment, he won't outspeed a lot of common threats carrying Fire coverage. Also, afaik Technician doesn't boost Acrobatics so Bullet Punch will do more damage against neutral typing. The standard Choice Band set with Superpower and Pursuit gives much needed coverage and gives his Bullet Punch a much desired boost.

With 60 base SpA, HP Ice won't be effective on Forretress other than in 4x effectiveness situations. However, Ice coverage is extremely important in OU and you'll need it somewhere. If you're able to bring Ice on another Pokemon (Rotom-W), I'd suggest going Gyro Ball to devastate speedy sweepers.

 

[lyth_o]

Another thing you may want to think about that I forgot to mention: if you put Infestation on Galvantula, you can keep a nasty surprise up your sleeve. Everyone expects Sticky Web from Galvantula as an opener; Infestation allows you to trap whoever is there (if they're not a threat to Galvantula, throw down sticky web, and then KO them).

There is some idea. However, say the opponent's opener is something that doesn't threaten Galvantula. There are two options, either I can OHKO him (and he will switch before I do anything and probably put something resistant to electricity & bug), or he can't deal much damage to me and I can't either (then he may stay to put entry hazards or do some little damage). I think in both cases, I'd better put Sticky Web first. Because then, if he switches, Sticky Web will be down and I can switch as well. If he stays, same. If I go infestation on someone I would OHKO thinking he's gonna switch, then infestation will meet the switch. And I'll trap the newcomer. Which can be very good as well.

So what I'm saying is... Having infestation in the moveset is a great idea. Has more flexibility than Bug Buzz. But it will have to be mastered lol. Each fight a decision will have to be made between Sticky Web first and Infestation, depending on the facing team. That's why having two support pokemon would be a an idea (although support is not really the appropriate word here). Galvantula with Sticky Web and Infestation, and a Baton Pass for instance in the case Sticky Web wasn't laid because it was more important to trap a possible switch.

Although Choice Specs hurts Will-O-Wisp's viability a little bit, it's still a very nice move to have in your arsenal, due mainly to the 50% reduction in physical attacking power. Even though spamming Will-O-Wisp isn't really viable, it's nice to at least have the option to use it in a pinch. You could also look at switching Choice Specs to something else.

Didn't know Will-O-Wisp had this effect. It's a great move indeed. In the worst case I can switch after Will O Wisp, either the person switches as well, or their attack will be crippled and I have an easy switch-in.


I'll go for a Defogger as well I believe. Something that would resist ice and could also Baton Pass an Agility, lol. I'm not sure something like that exists actually.


----------------------------------------
urbsyno

You're right for many points. Especially Scizor, I'll have to think about it.

I'm thinking hard about removing Forretress to something resistant to ice & fire. Actually Ice seems very important if Garchomp is going to switch-in after this pokemon.

My searches revealed that Gyarados would be a good match according to resistances. However he doesn't have the move pool needed...

----------------------------------------

How about not making Scizor a second physical sweeper... change him to a U-turn Defogger. And add a Special Sweeper instead. Or... anything that's lacking lol. Thinking in progress... Updated my main post.

Pokemon covering Fighting Fire & Ice :
- Delphox
- Starmie
- Tentacruel (but wouldn't rly fit)
- Jellicent
- Chandelure
- Azumarill

Also, I could use Grass Coverage as well. At least, my last pokemon shouldn't be weak to it. or I'll get 3x times weakness. Also, I only have on pokemon resistant to ground, and it is Rotom thanks to levitation which can be broken. Resistance to ground is probably more important than Fighting here.

I think considering all this, Gyarados makes the best match.

 

[CBManBearPig]

I'd recommend Substitute over Swords Dance on Garchomp. This thing forces tons of switches and many of Mega Garchomp's checks/counters can't deal with it behind a Substitute. Also I think your team is weak to Blaziken and Fire-types in general. Perhaps a Slowbro over Rotom?

 

[welsknight]

I'll go for a Defogger as well I believe. Something that would resist ice and could also Baton Pass an Agility, lol. I'm not sure something like that exists actually.

I'm thinking hard about removing Forretress to something resistant to ice & fire. Actually Ice seems very important if Garchomp is going to switch-in after this pokemon.

My searches revealed that Gyarados would be a good match according to resistances. However he doesn't have the move pool needed...

Blaziken. Blaziken, Blaziken, Blaziken. Speed pass as a secret ability, resistant to ice and fire, immune to burn (great if you predict Will-O-Wisp from your opponent), able to use Will-O-Wisp itself, can learn Sword Dance and Baton Pass... Blaziken is arguably the best Baton Passer out there currently (me personally, I really love my Scolipede, but it wouldn't fit on this team due to typing). So yeah, to summarize... BLAZIKEN!

The only criteria you discussed above that he doesn't meet is that he doesn't learn Defog.

 

[lyth_o]

Blaziken. Blaziken, Blaziken, Blaziken. Speed pass as a secret ability, resistant to ice and fire, immune to burn (great if you predict Will-O-Wisp from your opponent), able to use Will-O-Wisp itself, can learn Sword Dance and Baton Pass... Blaziken is arguably the best Baton Passer out there currently (me personally, I really love my Scolipede, but it wouldn't fit on this team due to typing). So yeah, to summarize... BLAZIKEN!

Yeah that is a good choice as well ! Only trouble is ground weakness on a team that has only Rotom-W to face ground attacks. What do you think ?

Considering I have Sticky Web on, I'm likely to kill before getting hit by a ground attack. But still...

What do you think of Gyarados as well ? (Better weakness coverage, less synergy than Blaziken though :/ That would imply forgetting about Baton Pass)

Defog is not a problem since I intend to put it on Scizor after all. If Gyarados could learn Defog, I may have replaced Scizor with him... but he seems that he can't. I don't know really. Draconite learns it, but I didn't see anyone talking about Defog Gyarados so I guess it's never been done. Defog is probably not a an egg move there.

http://www.marriland.com/tools/team-builder#1097|900|1505|864|1248|0| there are just a few mistakes, but it gives some insight of the weaknesses, or non-resistances also.

I'd recommend Substitute over Swords Dance on Garchomp. This thing forces tons of switches and many of Mega Garchomp's checks/counters can't deal with it behind a Substitute. Also I think your team is weak to Blaziken and Fire-types in general. Perhaps a Slowbro over Rotom?

My team is definetely weak to Blaziken. Except if I have Sticky Web on and he switches on rotom lol. No, I think I can even switch rotom on him if Sticky Web is on because when I switch in he just recovers his normal speed :)

So I think Rotom-W is pretty fine. I don't think Slowbro would bring much.

My trouble with Blaziken is that I was sure he was Uber, and would still be... So I didn't even think of him as an opponent, nor did I think of him as a member of my team. Can someone update me on this point ?

 

[welsknight]

Yeah that is a good choice as well ! Only trouble is ground weakness on a team that has only Rotom-W to face ground attacks. What do you think ?

Considering I have Sticky Web on, I'm likely to kill before getting hit by a ground attack. But still...

What do you think of Gyarados as well ? (Better weakness coverage, less synergy than Blaziken though :/ That would imply forgetting about Baton Pass)

Defog is not a problem since I intend to put it on Scizor after all. If Gyarados could learn Defog, I may have replaced Scizor with him... but he seems that he can't. I don't know really. Draconite learns it, but I didn't see anyone talking about Defog Gyarados so I guess it's never been done. Defog is probably not a an egg move there..

The only way I see Blaziken fitting into your team well is if he doubles as a Baton Passer. I think you can find a better-fitting Pokemon in lieu of Gyarados. Rather than looking for Defog, you could also look at Rapid Spinners, like Tentacruel, Starmie, Blastoise, or Excadrill. Dragonite really shouldn't be used as a Defog user, he's much better as a sweeper due to Multiscale (which is often essentially wasted if you take a turn to Defog with him.

My team is definetely weak to Blaziken. Except if I have Sticky Web on and he switches on rotom lol. No, I think I can even switch rotom on him if Sticky Web is on because when I switch in he just recovers his normal speed :)

So I think Rotom-W is pretty fine. I don't think Slowbro would bring much.

My trouble with Blaziken is that I was sure he was Uber, and would still be... So I didn't even think of him as an opponent, nor did I think of him as a member of my team. Can someone update me on this point ?

They will be doing the realignment of OU/Ubers etc in February. Until then, Blaziken is considered OU; after then, who knows.

 

[lyth_o]

The only way I see Blaziken fitting into your team well is if he doubles as a Baton Passer. I think you can find a better-fitting Pokemon in lieu of Gyarados. Rather than looking for Defog, you could also look at Rapid Spinners, like Tentacruel, Starmie, Blastoise, or Excadrill. Dragonite really shouldn't be used as a Defog user, he's much better as a sweeper due to Multiscale (which is often essentially wasted if you take a turn to Defog with him.

I think I will go for Blaziken then. Scizor Defog is gonna be retarded however. Since Blaziken will be both able to Baton Pass and sweep a bit (right?), I should remove Scizor now. Also, Blaziken could need some help setting up. Something having both Protect and Defog would be cool. Or Taunt & Defog

 

[welsknight]

I think I will go for Blaziken then. Scizor Defog is gonna be retarded however. Since Blaziken will be both able to Baton Pass and sweep a bit (right?), I should remove Scizor now.

Mmm, idk. Since you'll want to build Blaziken as more of a Baton Passer than a sweeper (example: Flare Blitz/Protect/Swords Dance/Baton Pass), you shouldn't remove Scizor simply because Blaziken is being added.

 

[lyth_o]

Mmm, idk. Since you'll want to build Blaziken as more of a Baton Passer than a sweeper (example: Flare Blitz/Protect/Swords Dance/Baton Pass), you shouldn't remove Scizor simply because Blaziken is being added.

Right...

It's just that giving Defog to Scizor kind of break any build. He won't have the power of an offensive SD, nor the power & bulk of a bulky SD. He can't be a trapper, etc. Only thing I can think of is a "Bulky Defogger Scizor" whose purpose would be to Defog if needed, being able to revenge kill someone with Bullet Punch ( ? ). And then... I don't know. Roost and U-Turn. With EVs like 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD/ Def ? Lol. I don't know why the Bulky version of Scizor usually goes for Special Defense EV by the way, he can't resist fire anyway can he ?

Otherwise something like Choice Band Scizor, without one of his usual attacks... which cripples him a lot :( and forces to switch out right after. Lol.

I prefer Defog over Rapid Spin because I'm pretty afraid of Mega Gengar lol. He really can kill and trap any rapid spinner. So the rapid spinner would need volt switch or u-turn to get out, and would probably never be able to rapid spin.

Last option is to forget both rapid spin and defog. And get owned by entry hazards. Not so much since none of these pokemon have a weakness in ground except the Lead.

I could also provide a cleric instead of Scizor / Defogger.

 

[urbsyno]

The problem with going Blaziken in Forretress's slot is you forgo any form of pivoting and your team loses a lot of its defensive potential.

Personally I'd go with something like Def Jellicent to give a bit of utility. That way you can keep Rotom-W in his SpA set and still bring Burn/Toxic. Jellicent can go HP/Def+ with Shadow Ball, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Recover.

HP/Atk+ Scizor with Leftovers can bring Defog along with U-turn, Bullet Punch, and Roost to serve as secondary bulky utility. Bullet Punch is too good not to bring, U-turn preserves momentum on opposing switches, Roost and Defog are useful.

Your Tyranitar set still needs reworking. With base 95 SpA, he's not going to be creating giant dents using off-type Special moves. It's a waste of stat and nature investment. Between Spec Rotom, Galvantula, and Utility Jellicent (if you go that route) you have enough non-physical damage to deal with any pesky dedicated Physical walls. Since the centerpiece of your team is Sand Force Garchomp, I'd go HP/SpD+ Tyranitar with Smooth Rock bringing Pursuit, Crunch, Stealth Rock, and Fire Blast. Crunch is your main STAB, Pursuit is for trapping, access to Stealth Rock is always useful, and Fire Blast is for coverage. He won't be sweeping any time soon with this setup but it allows him to repeatedly switch in throughout the match and resume 8-turn Sand Stream. At the end of the day, I feel that HP/Def+ Hippowdon with Slack Off would do a better job.

 

[deadflame]

Hello there. Very nice team. I highly recommend Ice Beam over Focus Blast on Tyranitar, first of all. Dragons are still common enough, as is Gliscor, and you need to handle them. Also, move the special defense ev's into HP, this will make him even more bulky, with 531 special defense still after Sand and the Assault Vest.

On Swords Dance Scizor, use Bug Bite over U-Turn, as that defeats the purpose of the set.

Finally, either physically defensive Hippowdon or Heatran would be a fine addition to your team over Forretress. Hippo to help keep Sand up even more reliably in tandem with Tyranitar, and Heatran for a Fire Type attacker that also can handle Talonflame and Aegislash. Personally, I like the specs set, but you might opt for the specially defensive set yourself.

I hope that I helped. Much Ludvisc!

 

[lyth_o]

The problem with going Blaziken in Forretress's slot is you forgo any form of pivoting and your team loses a lot of its defensive potential.

Personally I'd go with something like Def Jellicent to give a bit of utility. That way you can keep Rotom-W in his SpA set and still bring Burn/Toxic. Jellicent can go HP/Def+ with Shadow Ball, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Recover.
HP/Atk+ Scizor with Leftovers can bring Defog along with U-turn, Bullet Punch, and Roost to serve as secondary bulky utility. Bullet Punch is too good not to bring, U-turn preserves momentum on opposing switches, Roost and Defog are useful.

Your Tyranitar set still needs reworking. With base 95 SpA, he's not going to be creating giant dents using off-type Special moves. It's a waste of stat and nature investment. Between Spec Rotom, Galvantula, and Utility Jellicent (if you go that route) you have enough non-physical damage to deal with any pesky dedicated Physical walls. Since the centerpiece of your team is Sand Force Garchomp, I'd go HP/SpD+ Tyranitar with Smooth Rock bringing Pursuit, Crunch, Stealth Rock, and Fire Blast. Crunch is your main STAB, Pursuit is for trapping, access to Stealth Rock is always useful, and Fire Blast is for coverage. He won't be sweeping any time soon with this setup but it allows him to repeatedly switch in throughout the match and resume 8-turn Sand Stream. At the end of the day, I feel that HP/Def+ Hippowdon with Slack Off would do a better job.

I like your ideas as well. About Hippowdon, there are a few things Tyranitar does better : Special Defense (Rock under sand), attacking power, speed (he can outspeed some pokemon thanks to Sticky Web, I doubt Hippo can even with Sticky Web). However, Hippo has better typing and can heal himself. But he will also take more hits. Also, I can't have leftovers on him if Scizor has it. And I don't know what item to give to Jellicent either.

I think #1 Garchomp Scizor Jellicent Rotom-W Hippowdon/Tyra Galvantula would make a viable option yeah, just got to know what items would work with this. The point would be to harass around before Garchomp enters and owns I guess.

Before I go for this, I'd like some opinions about this other option I found :

#2 Garchomp, Starmie, Rotom-W, Tyra/Hippo, Galvantula, Blaziken.

Removing Scizor to a Rapid Spinner (eventually) that doesn't fear Spinblockers (or maybe it does actually lol) and has good weakness coverage. That would make Rotom-W bulky @ leftovers and Starmie @ choice specs. The downside of this is that I wouldn't have any priority attack. Also Starmie doesn't stand a chance against Aegislash I'm afraid. :( and I don't know about Gengar. I think I didn't pay attention to the Spectre/Dark weakness.

Well, this is not viable actually.

Then another option, trying to mix both a bit, would be :

#3 Garchomp Scizor Jellicent Blaziken Hippowdon/Tyra Galvantula

Utility with Scizor and Jellicent. Blaziken provides protect and baton pass. But no more water attack, except if Jellicent has one.

#4 Garchomp Scizor Rotom-W Blaziken Hippo/Tyra Galvantula

#5 Garchomp Scizor Rotom-W Donphan Hippo/Tyra Galvantula

Donphan provides rapid spin and enables Scizor to fulfill a Choice Band role then. Donphan also provides a second priority attack with Ice Shard. Finally, Donphan not having Stealth Rock, he could go Protect to help the team instead.

So that makes

#1

• + longevity
• + potentiel coverage on attacks : fire, stone, dark, dragon, spectre, water, ice, electric, bug, ground, steel, poison = 12
• + has a spinblocker
• - Garchomp not as strong as he could be thanks to a Blaziken Pass
• - Thunderbolt on Rotom-W not so necessary
• weakness coverage : everything covered but : ground attacks will be normally strong against all except x1 weakness, and 3x grass weakness
• two potentiel special sweepers (Rotom, Galvantula)
• one physical sweeper (garchomp)
• one utility (Jellicent)
• one utility + revenge killer (Scizor bullet punch - not sure I'm using the right word though)
• one physical attacker & resistant pokemon + entry hazards (tyra/hippo)

#2 Not viable. Rapid Spinning too easily countered.

#3

• + offensive-ness
• + longevity
• + spinblocker
• - no water coverage on attacks (or put one on Jellicent ?)
• - weaknes coverage : no one resists ground, and 2x weakness. x2 water weakness

#4

• + offensive-ness
• + water & fire STABs
• + x2 ground weakness, x2 grass weakness
• - no spinblocker
• - longevity / lack utility

#5

• - 2x Ground Weakness, 3x grass Weakness, 2x Ice Weakness

Weaknesses disqualify #5... #3 is the balance between longevity and offensive-ness but has no resistance to ground. However, Protect from Blaziken could help about that. #1 is the most endurant and flexible. #4 can lead to a better Garchomp but has no spinblocker and lacks longevity.

Conclusion
I think I'll go for #1 because setting both sand and baton pass can be hard and #1 is the most viable option. #3/#4 could have been devastating against some teams, but would probably be more easily countered.

My main reason for choosing #1 is the fact that #3/#4 need Sticky Web + Sand + (Protect + SD +) Baton Pass to reach 100% power. #1 only needs Sticky Web and Sand. In that, #1 is more offensive and fast paced actually.

Still waiting on a few answers and I'll edit the main post if my choice is confirmed best, xD. A hard choice between Hippo and Tyranitar has to be made though. I'd like more advice on this :/

Blaziken baton-passer is something I'll keep in mind though, if I make some other team later on. Blaziken + Gliscor *-*

Edit : Jellicent can't seem to be found in pokemon X/Y until pokebank... Well, since I have decided to go for something like #1. Other mons can fulfill an equivalent role I guess. Gengar for instance. Latios (if there's anyway to get him) could fulfill a utility role as well ?

Gengar @ Black Sludge
- Will'O'Wisp / Toxic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick

As CBManBearPig mentioned before, Slowbro could be an option as well actually. Covering Blaziken mainly (Blaziken is no threat if Sticky Web is down and Rotom-W is alive though).

Gyarados would provide perfect weakness coverage and would be able to switch on Blaziken thanks to intimidate. Anyway, Choice Scarf Gyarados can outspeed Blaziken with +1 speed as well. So adding a revenge killer Gyarados would be an option. A defensive Gyarados should be able to take a hit from Blaziken as well before killing him.

I don't know if Bulky Rotom-W can handle a hit from Blaziken... Choice Scarf Rotom-W can outspeed him after +1 speed however. Trouble happens if Hydro Pump fails though, so Rotom-W is not reliable to take out this threat.

Choice Scarf Starmie can as well revenge kill Blaziken and has good weakness coverage.

 

[lyth_o]

Right, using my one BUMP after having updated the main topic.

Thanks to all for advice, namely :

• urbsyno
• deadflame
• welsknight
• CBManBearPig

I look forward to reading your next pieces of advice on the updated team.