Little things you like about Pokémon

[Magnus0]

in a very off-brand move, I'm gonna say something nice about Sword and Shield for once.

A few days ago, the topic of formulaic Pokedexes came up somewhere on OI (can't remember where). Personally, I don't mind having the standard early bird, rodent and bug stereotypes, on one condition. I think having these predetermined types is fine, as long as they have unique statlines, typings and abilities. One of the reasons that the early rodents feel so similar, for example, is because most of them are similar. Raticate, Furret, Linoone, Bibarel, Watchog, Diggerby and Gumshoos are almost all somewhat fast physical attackers with mediocre bulk. Greedent mixes this up a bit by having a statline focused on bulk instead. Its ability cheeck pouch and its signiture move stuff cheecks even compliment this statline well, and it sets Greedent apart from the other rodents.

An even beter examle is Corviknight. Not only is it the only early bird besides Talonflame that isn't normal/flying, it also has a drasitically different statline compared to any of the other early birds. It doesn't feel like you have already used it before.

I think Orbeetle takes the cake when it comes to standing out within group of similar Pokemon. The early bugs aren't actually very formulaic, with a decent variety of typings and some variation in statlines. Orbeetle still manages to stand out because of its entirely unique typing and outlandish statline.

Another example is the fossil Pokemon. As weird as they may be, the galarian fossil Pokemon are very different from previous fossil Pokemon.

tldr; I think Sword and Shield did a good job at designing unique Pokemon when it comes to Pokemon that are usually designed by following a formula.

 

[Rapti]

Why does Sycamore have a confused face?

Sycamore is well know for not knowing what the hell is going on

 

[Kurona]

in a very off-brand move, I'm gonna say something nice about Sword and Shield for once.

A few days ago, the topic of formulaic Pokedexes came up somewhere on OI (can't remember where). Personally, I don't mind having the standard early bird, rodent and bug stereotypes, on one condition. I think having these predetermined types is fine, as long as they have unique statlines, typings and abilities. One of the reasons that the early rodents feel so similar, for example, is because most of them are similar. Raticate, Furret, Linoone, Bibarel, Watchog, Diggerby and Gumshoos are almost all somewhat fast physical attackers with mediocre bulk. Greedent mixes this up a bit by having a statline focused on bulk instead. Its ability cheeck pouch and its signiture move stuff cheecks even compliment this statline well, and it sets Greedent apart from the other rodents.

An even beter examle is Corviknight. Not only is it the only early bird besides Talonflame that isn't normal/flying, it also has a drasitically different statline compared to any of the other early birds. It doesn't feel like you have already used it before.

I think Orbeetle takes the cake when it comes to standing out within group of similar Pokemon. The early bugs aren't actually very formulaic, with a decent variety of typings and some variation in statlines. Orbeetle still manages to stand out because of its entirely unique typing and outlandish statline.

Another example is the fossil Pokemon. As weird as they may be, the galarian fossil Pokemon are very different from previous fossil Pokemon.

tldr; I think Sword and Shield did a good job at designing unique Pokemon when it comes to Pokemon that are usually designed by following a formula.

I feel that Gen 8’s pokemon selection is the most creative it’s ever been. That’s not to insult the other gens - I love all of them, and there’s plenty creativity to be found in each! - but it really feels like Gen 8 took a step up and really wanted to create something new and fresh; things that left all the old tropes behind and put a lot of work into everything. There’s scarcely a Gen 8 Pokémon that isn’t a standout, and that goes for the Galarian forms too!

 

[TerrickTerran]

Little thing I like is the creativity the game invokes in many of its fans.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Sycamore is well know for not knowing what the hell is going on

Actually, after defeating Team Flare, Sycamore somewhat implies he suspected Lysandre's ambitions but was possibly too taken aback by his passion he wanted to believe Lysandre wouldn't have gone as far as he did:

"I have to apologize to you about Lysandre... I'm very sorry for the trouble he caused..."
"And I'd also like to thank you! I'm sincerely grateful for what you did for all of the Pokémon and people of this world. And by stopping Team Flare, you also saved Lysandre. I always knew that he desired a beautiful world..."
"And maybe someday the population of people and Pokémon will actually increase to where resources become very scarce. If someone acts out of greed in such a world, surely some will go without. If all living things keep acting that way, there will be nothing left at all in the end. Why, there won't even be anything left to steal, will there?"
"But what I really wanted was for him to put his ego aside and lead everything to greater heights. I never had this discussion with him, though. So I'm partially responsible for this."

 

[Magnus0]

I feel that Gen 8’s pokemon selection is the most creative it’s ever been. That’s not to insult the other gens - I love all of them, and there’s plenty creativity to be found in each! - but it really feels like Gen 8 took a step up and really wanted to create something new and fresh; things that left all the old tropes behind and put a lot of work into everything. There’s scarcely a Gen 8 Pokémon that isn’t a standout, and that goes for the Galarian forms too!

Looking at the galar dex as a whole, I actually don't fully agree with this. I think many of the designs (in terms of art design and flavour) are good, but there are also a lot of missed opportunities when it comes to gameplay aspects like typings and stats. The main issue is that there are so many single-type Pokemon in the dex. There isn't anything wrong with that, per se, but single-type Pokemon by definition don't have a unique typing.

There are so many unique dual-types that still haven't been explored. Ground/fighting, grass/fire, fire/fairy, bug/ghost, the list goes on. Having so many single-type Pokemon feels like a waste when we could have gotten more interesting types instead. I think the starters in particular were a big letdown for a lot of people. In my opinion, GF could have been even more creative.

A lot of the Pokemon that do have a rare typing also suffer from a mismatch between their statline and typing. For example, Frosmoth is yet another ice type with amazing offensive potential, held back by its lackluster speed. Centiscorch and Toxtricity have a similar problem. Coalossal is a defensive Pokemon with a terrible defensive typing. Now, I'm not saying that every Pokemon of a more defensive typing should have a defensive statline, or else every Pokemon would be the same. However, if you've already tried something and it didn't work (Magcargo), you really should reconsider things.

Some of the standouts in gen 8 stand out in the wrong way as well. I'm mostly referring to the unbelievably terrible Eiscue and Stonejourner. I mean, every gen has bad Pokemon, but it's especially bad in the later gens because of how small the regional dex tends to be.

So in summary, I think the gen 8 dex is great, but it doesn't come near reaching its fullest potential.

 

[Kurona]

Looking at the galar dex as a whole, I actually don't fully agree with this. I think many of the designs (in terms of art design and flavour) are good, but there are also a lot of missed opportunities when it comes to gameplay aspects like typings and stats. The main issue is that there are so many single-type Pokemon in the dex. There isn't anything wrong with that, per se, but single-type Pokemon by definition don't have a unique typing.

There are so many unique dual-types that still haven't been explored. Ground/fighting, grass/fire, fire/fairy, bug/ghost, the list goes on. Having so many single-type Pokemon feels like a waste when we could have gotten more interesting types instead. I think the starters in particular were a big letdown for a lot of people. In my opinion, GF could have been even more creative.

A lot of the Pokemon that do have a rare typing also suffer from a mismatch between their statline and typing. For example, Frosmoth is yet another ice type with amazing offensive potential, held back by its lackluster speed. Centiscorch and Toxtricity have a similar problem. Coalossal is a defensive Pokemon with a terrible defensive typing. Now, I'm not saying that every Pokemon of a more defensive typing should have a defensive statline, or else every Pokemon would be the same. However, if you've already tried something and it didn't work (Magcargo), you really should reconsider things.

Some of the standouts in gen 8 stand out in the wrong way as well. I'm mostly referring to the unbelievably terrible Eiscue and Stonejourner. I mean, every gen has bad Pokemon, but it's especially bad in the later gens because of how small the regional dex tends to be.

So in summary, I think the gen 8 dex is great, but it doesn't come near reaching its fullest potential.

Oh I was referring exclusively to design and flavour! I look at something like Falinks or Appletun or Stonjourner and it feels like a step above what limits they seemed to set themselves before.

 

[p0ip0le]

snip
There are so many unique dual-types that still haven't been explored. Ground/fighting, grass/fire, fire/fairy, bug/ghost, the list goes on. Having so many single-type Pokemon feels like a waste when we could have gotten more interesting types instead. I think the starters in particular were a big letdown for a lot of people. In my opinion, GF could have been even more creative.

shedinja WHO??

zeraora not being electric/fighting was the biggest fucking letdown of the century. its unique move is plasma FISTS ffs

cinderace/line could've conceivably been fire/electric if you saw the tape on scorbunny's face as electrical tape, inteleon couldve been water/flying with the gliding deal, or hell rillaboom couldve even been grass/elec with the drum thing. none of them are unique but the last time we had a full set of pure-typed starters was gen2 and we all know how utterly terrible those 3 are

i actually made a spreadsheet a while ago of type combinations that haven't been used, it might be outdated with CT soon but it exists. poison/steel is one of the most interesting unused combos since it has 9 resists + 1 immunity + only 2 weaknesses

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

the last time we had a full set of pure-typed starters was gen2 and we all know how utterly terrible those 3 are

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Looking at the galar dex as a whole, I actually don't fully agree with this. I think many of the designs (in terms of art design and flavour) are good, but there are also a lot of missed opportunities when it comes to gameplay aspects like typings and stats. The main issue is that there are so many single-type Pokemon in the dex. There isn't anything wrong with that, per se, but single-type Pokemon by definition don't have a unique typing.

There are so many unique dual-types that still haven't been explored. Ground/fighting, grass/fire, fire/fairy, bug/ghost, the list goes on. Having so many single-type Pokemon feels like a waste when we could have gotten more interesting types instead. I think the starters in particular were a big letdown for a lot of people. In my opinion, GF could have been even more creative.

While I agree that it felt like there were too many single-typed pokemon in SwSh, I am inclined to think that the lack of unique dual-types is a very deliberate decision that's not due to lack of creativity. Rather, GF recognizes that there are only so many unique type combos left and they don't want to blow through them all too quickly, so they've become more conservative in doling out unique typings. Supposedly there are only about 17 unique typings left; SwSh introduced 12, so if Gen 9 introduced a similar number all unique typings could be used up by Gen 10.

I would guess that in order to drag out the inevitable and have at least a few new combos to introduce each gen, we'll probably be seeing more of what happened with USUM and SwSh/IoA for the next few generations: fewer and fewer unique typings and more previously unique or at least rare typings being given out. (e.g., 3 gens in a row with a poison/dragon, 2 fire/ghost introduced in Gen 7, steel/dragon and ghost/dragon finally being given out to non-legends, and more). If there are any surprise forms/new pokemon left in CT I would be surprised if GF introduces anything with a unique type over reusing a rare typing. I could see the next mythical maybe getting a unique type, but not much else.

Unless GF decides to add in a new type or two as a stop-gap, break the type1/type2 symmetry, or *shudder* introduce triple-types, the era of having swaths of cool new typings introduced each gen already seems to be over. Hopefully once we run out GF has enough creativity left to introduce a new dimension to Pokemon typings that's not one of these possibilities; otherwise I guess once we finally have our normal/ghost type we can start asking for that normal/ghost/dark type.

 

[Magnus0]

While I agree that it felt like there were too many single-typed pokemon in SwSh, I am inclined to think that the lack of unique dual-types is a very deliberate decision that's not due to lack of creativity. Rather, GF recognizes that there are only so many unique type combos left and they don't want to blow through them all too quickly, so they've become more conservative in doling out unique typings. Supposedly there are only about 17 unique typings left; SwSh introduced 12, so if Gen 9 introduced a similar number all unique typings could be used up by Gen 10.

I would guess that in order to drag out the inevitable and have at least a few new combos to introduce each gen, we'll probably be seeing more of what happened with USUM and SwSh/IoA for the next few generations: fewer and fewer unique typings and more previously unique or at least rare typings being given out. (e.g., 3 gens in a row with a poison/dragon, 2 fire/ghost introduced in Gen 7, steel/dragon and ghost/dragon finally being given out to non-legends, and more). If there are any surprise forms/new pokemon left in CT I would be surprised if GF introduces anything with a unique type over reusing a rare typing. I could see the next mythical maybe getting a unique type, but not much else.

Unless GF decides to add in a new type or two as a stop-gap, break the type1/type2 symmetry, or *shudder* introduce triple-types, the era of having swaths of cool new typings introduced each gen already seems to be over. Hopefully once we run out GF has enough creativity left to introduce a new dimension to Pokemon typings that's not one of these possibilities; otherwise I guess once we finally have our normal/ghost type we can start asking for that normal/ghost/dark type.

That's a good point.

However, with just one family representing a certain dual-typing, there is still lots of room for creativity. For example, the Ghastly family is the only ghost/poison type in the game. Gamefreak could make a slow ghost/poison type with a defensive statline, and it would still feel very different from the Ghastly family. There are many possibilities here, like a physical psychic/ice type (Jynx) or an offensive grass/rock type (Cradily). Designing Pokemon like this would be a better compromise than just making everything single-type imo, while still preserving entirely unique typings.

GF just please give me a fast grass/rock starter. That type has such amazing potential. please.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Looking at the galar dex as a whole, I actually don't fully agree with this. I think many of the designs (in terms of art design and flavour) are good, but there are also a lot of missed opportunities when it comes to gameplay aspects like typings and stats. The main issue is that there are so many single-type Pokemon in the dex. There isn't anything wrong with that, per se, but single-type Pokemon by definition don't have a unique typing.

There are so many unique dual-types that still haven't been explored. Ground/fighting, grass/fire, fire/fairy, bug/ghost, the list goes on. Having so many single-type Pokemon feels like a waste when we could have gotten more interesting types instead. I think the starters in particular were a big letdown for a lot of people. In my opinion, GF could have been even more creative.

I like a good unique type combination as the next guy, however at the same time I do appreciate it when they do make a mono-Type Pokemon. Sure, you could probably give a majority of Pokemon a secondary Type if they wanted, but sometimes a design only asks to be a mono-Type.

And one thing I like about the Galar Starters are that they're mono-Types, something that hasn't been done since Gen II (V came close though Emboar was a Fire/Fighting-type). It's something that makes them unique which Starters are sort of having some difficulty doing now that we have 8 gens of them.

However, as I said, unique Type combinations are cool and I think that GF should think about maybe allowing some Pokemon to havea /change their secondary Type. I think to a TCG mechanic they had, Holon Energy, which the TCG used so they could give Pokemon strange Types (as well as making them part Steel). Now I wouldn't go as far as what they TCG did, but we've all seen a Pokemon or few where we thought "you know it probably could have had that Type" and I think Holon Energy could be used to do just that: give Pokemon access to recessive Types (heck, maybe even test the water for Triple Typing (and before you say anything, I can see them reducing damage from Triple Weakness to 5x & Triple Resistance to 0.2x)!).

 

[p0ip0le]

That's a good point.

However, with just one family representing a certain dual-typing, there is still lots of room for creativity. For example, the Ghastly family is the only ghost/poison type in the game. Gamefreak could make a slow ghost/poison type with a defensive statline, and it would still feel very different from the Ghastly family. There are many possibilities here, like a physical psychic/ice type (Jynx) or an offensive grass/rock type (Cradily). Designing Pokemon like this would be a better compromise than just making everything single-type imo, while still preserving entirely unique typings.

GF just please give me a fast grass/rock starter. That type has such amazing potential. please.

hatterene was the PERFECT opportunity to subvert the psychic/fairy = automatically special thing that's become so damn common. hell, its prevos both have shit like "Using the braids on its head, it pummels foes to get them to quiet down. One blow from those braids would knock out a professional boxer." or other similarly violent things. but no, it got another generic set of special moves.

if it had a bit wider of a physical movepool (signature psychic-type punching move instead of magic powder, maybe?) it could be an actually interesting pokemon, but we got... boring special trickroom sweeper #17

design-wise, it's just gardevoir 2, and thats that on that :frog:

 

[Codraroll]

it really feels like Gen 8 took a step up and really wanted to create something new and fresh; things that left all the old tropes behind and put a lot of work into everything.

Not sure if I agree with this. I recently sat down and made a list of all the "Pokédex tropes" usually found in each generation, and Gen 8 is guilty of following nearly all of them to the letter. There is no "lesser trio" of legendaries, the regional bird isn't Normal/Flying in even one of its stages, and the fossils aren't Rock-type, but otherwise Gen 8 is extremely formulaic on a conceptual level. That's not to say they didn't pull off the concepts well, but the concepts were followed nonetheless. To elaborate:

• The starters are present, straightforward as always.
• Skwovet and Greedent are the regional rodents.
• The Rookidee family are the regional birds.
• The Blipbug family represent the regional bugs.
• The Wooloo family is Galar's "cutesy Normal-type two-stage family", following in the footsteps of Jigglypuff, Teddiursa, Skitty, Buneary, Minccino, Litleo, and Stufful.
• Indeedee is the stand-alone Normal-type of the generation. Props for giving it a secondary typing, at least.
• Morpeko is this generation's Pikaclone
• There are four fossils, although props for not making them Rock-type
• The Dreepy family ticks the box for pseudo-legendaries.
• Zacian, Zamazenta, and Eternatus wear the shoes of Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza.
• Kubfu and Calyrex are the cover mascots of the DLC.
• Zarude is a bog-standard Mythical Pokémon.

Additionally - and we're still going on a conceptual level here, this is not a criticism of individual designs - it seems like many Pokémon were designed/included in the Galar dex primarily to give token representation of each typing. It's like they wanted each typing to be the primary typing of one two-stage family or the secondary typing of two families, a strict quota to be filled because somebody would be grumpy otherwise. Can't you just imagine the head designer going over a checklist when inspecting the new generation?

• Normal - Covered three times by the "archetype" Pokémon, that's sufficient.
• Fire - Represented by the (non-tropey) Rolycoly family, but let's add the Sizzlipede family too to pad it out.
• Fighting - Token representation by the Grapploct family.
• Water - Token representation by the Arrokuda family.
• Flying - Represented by the (regional bird) Rookidee family and the (non-tropey) Cramorant.
• Grass - Token representation by the Gossifleur family.
• Poison - Sufficiently represented by the (non-tropey) Toxel family. Slightly under-represented to compensate for Gen I.
• Electric - Token representation by the Yamper family.
• Ground - Token representation by the Silicobra family.
• Psychic - Sufficiently represented by the (non-tropey) Hatenna family.
• Rock - Represented by the (non-tropey) Rolycoly family and the (non-tropey) Stonjourner.
• Ice - Token representation by the Snom family.
• Bug - Represented by the (token Ice-type) Snom family, but let's add the Sizzlipede family too to pad it out.
• Dragon - Represented by the (pseudo-legendary) Dreepy family, but let's add the Applin family too to pad it out.
• Ghost - Token representation by the Sinistea family.
• Dark - Token representation by the Nickit family.
• Steel - Token representation by the Cufant family.
• Fairy - Token representation by the Milcery family.

I mean, this may be highly subjective, but scrolling through the Galar dex, I only get the feeling that the following evolutionary families are not there just to fulfill an archetype or give token representation to a typing:

• The Chewtle family
• The Rolycoly family
• Cramorant
• The Toxel family
• The Hatenna family
• The Impidimp family
• The six "regional evolutions", although this may be an archetype or category of its own.
• Falinks
• Pincurchin
• Stonjourner
• Eiscue
• Duraludon

That's 19 Pokémon plus the regional evolutions, that don't "have to be there". Doing the same exercise for Gen VII, I get 20 plus the Ultra Beasts. Gen VI, only 8. But again, it's subjective. I feel like Pikachu315111 would be better at hammering out a set of criteria and applying it to each generation, but it's an arduous task.

It's hard to explain, but it feels like Gen 8 (and the two before it) started out with a list demanding each typing to be represented a certain number of times, and a list of archetypes they had to include, and these lists were used as the basis for the design process until all the boxes were ticked. Many of the designs made to tick boxes were very well done, but the underlying design requirements still show through. And with the regional roster being so small, the design-by-checklist Pokémon dominate the regional dex. It's like Game Freak feel they need some 60 slots in a regional dex to go through the motions, and play more freely with the remaining slots. However, in generations like I, III, or V, there were 70-90 slots to play with after the lists were ticked off. Nowadays, there's 10-20. The designers no longer have the wide freedom they used to, because they want to fulfill two sets of requirements: Make the generations smaller, but still fulfill the quotas. The result is a tiny handful of "original" designs, where there once were dozens upon dozens.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I feel like Pikachu315111 would be better at hammering out a set of criteria and applying it to each generation, but it's an arduous task.

The list you made from skimming the Galar Dex probably is as good as a checklist we're going to make. Heck, you guys added on the "Cutesy Normal-type" and "Standard Mono-Stage Normal-type" which I wouldn't be sure to add onto the list as it feels like that rule could be easily broken, it's just circumstance that it hasn't.

 

[Samtendo09]

Not sure if I agree with this. I recently sat down and made a list of all the "Pokédex tropes" usually found in each generation, and Gen 8 is guilty of following nearly all of them to the letter. There is no "lesser trio" of legendaries, the regional bird isn't Normal/Flying in even one of its stages, and the fossils aren't Rock-type, but otherwise Gen 8 is extremely formulaic on a conceptual level. That's not to say they didn't pull off the concepts well, but the concepts were followed nonetheless. To elaborate:

• The starters are present, straightforward as always.
• Skwovet and Greedent are the regional rodents.
• The Rookidee family are the regional birds.
• The Blipbug family represent the regional bugs.
• The Wooloo family is Galar's "cutesy Normal-type two-stage family", following in the footsteps of Jigglypuff, Teddiursa, Skitty, Buneary, Minccino, Litleo, and Stufful.
• Indeedee is the stand-alone Normal-type of the generation. Props for giving it a secondary typing, at least.
• Morpeko is this generation's Pikaclone
• There are four fossils, although props for not making them Rock-type
• The Dreepy family ticks the box for pseudo-legendaries.
• Zacian, Zamazenta, and Eternatus wear the shoes of Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza.
• Kubfu and Calyrex are the cover mascots of the DLC.
• Zarude is a bog-standard Mythical Pokémon.

Additionally - and we're still going on a conceptual level here, this is not a criticism of individual designs - it seems like many Pokémon were designed/included in the Galar dex primarily to give token representation of each typing. It's like they wanted each typing to be the primary typing of one two-stage family or the secondary typing of two families, a strict quota to be filled because somebody would be grumpy otherwise. Can't you just imagine the head designer going over a checklist when inspecting the new generation?

• Normal - Covered three times by the "archetype" Pokémon, that's sufficient.
• Fire - Represented by the (non-tropey) Rolycoly family, but let's add the Sizzlipede family too to pad it out.
• Fighting - Token representation by the Grapploct family.
• Water - Token representation by the Arrokuda family.
• Flying - Represented by the (regional bird) Rookidee family and the (non-tropey) Cramorant.
• Grass - Token representation by the Gossifleur family.
• Poison - Sufficiently represented by the (non-tropey) Toxel family. Slightly under-represented to compensate for Gen I.
• Electric - Token representation by the Yamper family.
• Ground - Token representation by the Silicobra family.
• Psychic - Sufficiently represented by the (non-tropey) Hatenna family.
• Rock - Represented by the (non-tropey) Rolycoly family and the (non-tropey) Stonjourner.
• Ice - Token representation by the Snom family.
• Bug - Represented by the (token Ice-type) Snom family, but let's add the Sizzlipede family too to pad it out.
• Dragon - Represented by the (pseudo-legendary) Dreepy family, but let's add the Applin family too to pad it out.
• Ghost - Token representation by the Sinistea family.
• Dark - Token representation by the Nickit family.
• Steel - Token representation by the Cufant family.
• Fairy - Token representation by the Milcery family.

I mean, this may be highly subjective, but scrolling through the Galar dex, I only get the feeling that the following evolutionary families are not there just to fulfill an archetype or give token representation to a typing:

• The Chewtle family
• The Rolycoly family
• Cramorant
• The Toxel family
• The Hatenna family
• The Impidimp family
• The six "regional evolutions", although this may be an archetype or category of its own.
• Falinks
• Pincurchin
• Stonjourner
• Eiscue
• Duraludon

That's 19 Pokémon plus the regional evolutions, that don't "have to be there". Doing the same exercise for Gen VII, I get 20 plus the Ultra Beasts. Gen VI, only 8. But again, it's subjective. I feel like Pikachu315111 would be better at hammering out a set of criteria and applying it to each generation, but it's an arduous task.

It's hard to explain, but it feels like Gen 8 (and the two before it) started out with a list demanding each typing to be represented a certain number of times, and a list of archetypes they had to include, and these lists were used as the basis for the design process until all the boxes were ticked. Many of the designs made to tick boxes were very well done, but the underlying design requirements still show through. And with the regional roster being so small, the design-by-checklist Pokémon dominate the regional dex. It's like Game Freak feel they need some 60 slots in a regional dex to go through the motions, and play more freely with the remaining slots. However, in generations like I, III, or V, there were 70-90 slots to play with after the lists were ticked off. Nowadays, there's 10-20. The designers no longer have the wide freedom they used to, because they want to fulfill two sets of requirements: Make the generations smaller, but still fulfill the quotas. The result is a tiny handful of "original" designs, where there once were dozens upon dozens.

The list you made from skimming the Galar Dex probably is as good as a checklist we're going to make. Heck, you guys added on the "Cutesy Normal-type" and "Standard Mono-Stage Normal-type" which I wouldn't be sure to add onto the list as it feels like that rule could be easily broken, it's just circumstance that it hasn't.

Does this makes Galar the most unoriginal in term of archetype? Just asking a question, no ill-intended to Gen 8. I would not be surprised if GF somehow decided to reduce the amount of new Pokémon even further (including for regional forms + evolutions) for Gen 9 though.

Anyways, to stay on-topic with positivity, there's a little detail that I do like; the fact that Galarian Darmanitan have a different Zen Mode form... even if the Zen Mode form should be called differently, though that's more-or-less does to "legacy mechanic" within Zen Mode.

Why I called it such is that despite GF introduced yet another slow Ice-type(s) in Gen 8, the Zen Mode of Galarian Darmanitan was thankfully work much more favorably for offensive unlike the more defensive oriented, original Zen Mode form of Unovan Darmanitan. Let's compare the two to give an idea.

Unovan Zen Mode Darmanitan is much more defensively oriented with slower Speed but higher Defense and Special Defense, and gains the Psychic-type. Not only that, it base 140 Attack is swapped into Special Attack, making it a Special Attacker. Sounds good in theory, but comes two problems;

1. Psychic-type and access to Zen Mode at 50% HP or lower makes the bulk a lot less useful, especially when you consider that it remains weak to Stealth Rock as well.
2. Darmanitan have to run Special sets to even make use of it's eventually higher Special Attack, as the Unovan Zen Mode have a paltry base 30 Attack. This also makes Belly Drum next to useless for Zen Mode.

Galarian Darmanitan, on the other hand, have the very same base stats of regular Darmanitan... but their Zen Mode are completely different! As you can see on the image, Galarian Zen Mode focus even more on an even bigger Attack and an even faster Speed. Not only that, but instead of getting Psychic-type, it suddenly gains back the Fire-type it used to have back in Unova! This works (too well) for the following reasons;

1. Fire-type is a strong offensive Typing, and when combined with Ice, it allows Galarian Zen Mode Darmanitan to hit a lot of things Super Effectively with just their STABs. The emphasis on Attack and Speed works on it's favor as well, especially if it managed to set up a Belly Drum! This had a severe trade-off of getting more weaknesses alongside unchanged (weak) bulk, especially surrounding Stealth Rock, but that can worth it since it became far harder hitting and much faster.
2. Galarian Darmanitan doesn't even need to have Zen Mode to use Fire-type moves, either! It can use Fire-type attacks like Flare Blitz as a coverage, which means you can't just switch in a Steel-type to stop it's onslaught, especially if it have Choice Band/Scarf equipped.

Granted, Galarian Darmanitan became overwhelming - very likely unintentionally considering nobody expected Gorilla Tactics to give such an edge - but the fact that their Zen Mode functions so differently from the Unovan Darmanitan's and being able to capitalize on the changes is much better than a "copy-and-pasted Ice/Psychic defensive, special attack oriented" Zen Mode. Changes like this is part of what I like so much on Regional Variants in general!

 

[Worldie]

Granted, Galarian Darmanitan became overwhelming - very likely unintentionally considering nobody expected Gorilla Tactics to give such an edge - but the fact that their Zen Mode functions so differently from the Unovan Darmanitan's and being able to capitalize on the changes is much better than a "copy-and-pasted Ice/Psychic defensive, special attack oriented" Zen Mode. Changes like this is part of what I like so much on Regional Variants in general!

I think G-Darm's Zen mode was a product of GameFreaks examining their old Darmanitan and asking themselves "why does the cool concept of ability we had not work?"

They sort of fixed most of the issues that ability has... however, they gave G-Darm such a strong base ability that it still made Zen Mode obsolete anyway

I'm almost sad that OU banned G-darm entirely (even though I understand the thought process) because it'd have been interesting to see if Zen Mode would have any reliable way to be activated, expecially given its Stealth Rock weakness.
Most likely we'll never know (unless they decide to unban it come DLC2), but it'd have been interesting to see, since differently from Cinderace who had a lot of "no-libero" time, there was never a "no gorilla tactics" time.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I would not be surprised if GF somehow decided to reduce the amount of new Pokémon even further (including for regional forms + evolutions) for Gen 9 though.

Actually I think the opposite, I think Gen 9 will add in as many Pokemon as it needs to get the number of Pokemon species to that golden number 1,000. Right now we have Zarude at 893 and we're getting a few more Pokemon with Crowned Tundra (and who knows if they have another Mythical Pokemon or two planned). Having less than that would mean Gen 10 either is going to be really limited to reach 1k or goes over 1k completely ignoring that rather major number. So I think Gen 9 we'll be getting to 1k, and that'll leave Gen 10 as a blank slate for them to do what they want.

... Or they can pull a Microsoft and just skip 9 and go to 10 so it's the gen that introduced 1k Pokmeon.

Anyways, to stay on-topic with positivity, there's a little detail that I do like; the fact that Galarian Darmanitan have a different Zen Mode form... even if the Zen Mode form should be called differently, though that's more-or-less does to "legacy mechanic" within Zen Mode.

Zen Mode in Japanese is called "Daruma Mode". Still a bit of a relic name but not as much as Zen Mode. It still vaguely look like a daruma, just designed after a snowman. A daruma doll is generally seen as a symbol of good luck and perseverance, and what could be more "persevere" than a snowman that's on fire?

very likely unintentionally considering nobody expected Gorilla Tactics to give such an edge

Yeah, I just re-read Bulbapedia's page on Gorilla Tactics and they probably should remove its effect stacking with Choice Scarf Band. It would still be a good Ability regardless, but right now two Choice Scarf Band boosts feels REALLY OP.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Yeah, I just re-read Bulbapedia's page on Gorilla Tactics and they probably should remove its effect stacking with Choice Scarf. It would still be a good Ability regardless, but right now two Choice Scarf boosts feels REALLY OP.

I think you mean Choice Band. And even if they didn't make it stack with Choice Band, it wouldn't have mattered much because Scarf was its best set.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Anyways, to stay on-topic with positivity, there's a little detail that I do like; the fact that Galarian Darmanitan have a different Zen Mode form... even if the Zen Mode form should be called differently, though that's more-or-less does to "legacy mechanic" within Zen Mode.

Why I called it such is that despite GF introduced yet another slow Ice-type(s) in Gen 8, the Zen Mode of Galarian Darmanitan was thankfully work much more favorably for offensive unlike the more defensive oriented, original Zen Mode form of Unovan Darmanitan. Let's compare the two to give an idea.

Just wanted to point out something regarding the name of "Zen Mode"-while it sounds pretty contrasting with the English name being "Zen Mode" (since Galarian Darmanitan's Zen Mode is more of a "Rage Mode"), in Japanese (and in some other languages as well, but Japanese namely) the name of the ability is actually called "Daruma Mode". It seems the entire idea of Darmanitan's transformation from what they intended in terms of design was that it's supposed to reshape itself into something that looks like a Japanese daruma doll, which is sort of the basis of the Darumaka line to begin with, but Darmanitan in both of its forms when at low health transforms into a very doll-like state, whether it be a very motionless doll (Unovan) or an angry and raging doll (Galarian).

Daruma dolls look something like this:

Daruma Doll

This is a traditional Japanese daruma doll, which the "Daruma Mode" of either Darmanitan variant honestly looks similar to. This was lost in the translation, as they changed the name in English from "Daruma Mode" to "Zen Mode", probably to refer to the zen state Darmanitan's daruma doll-like state is in, but this was ultimately a short-sighted translation in hindsight as the Galarian Darmanitan's transformed state is not really "zen" at all (it's angry and fueled by rage): meanwhile, "Daruma Mode" is still accurate even to the Galarian variant's form change.

Just an interesting tidbit of trivia.

 

[Samtendo09]

Actually I think the opposite, I think Gen 9 will add in as many Pokemon as it needs to get the number of Pokemon species to that golden number 1,000. Right now we have Zarude at 893 and we're getting a few more Pokemon with Crowned Tundra (and who knows if they have another Mythical Pokemon or two planned). Having less than that would mean Gen 10 either is going to be really limited to reach 1k or goes over 1k completely ignoring that rather major number. So I think Gen 9 we'll be getting to 1k, and that'll leave Gen 10 as a blank slate for them to do what they want.

That's honestly really silly to think about. We already have three Regions with the amount of new Pokémon less than 100, and I refuse to count Mega Evolution as their own species. It may not be so bad for Gen 7 and 8 thanks to Regional Variants being mechanically their own sub-species, per say, but that had to be pointed out.

Eventually we instead ends up having even less new Pokémon and just the same amount of new Regional Variants (+ Evolutions), with almost 100% of them filling the archetype on-the-book.

Wishing for such a thing like that while the opposite was already taken into direction can and will be a bad idea in hindsight.

Zen Mode in Japanese is called "Daruma Mode". Still a bit of a relic name but not as much as Zen Mode. It still vaguely look like a daruma, just designed after a snowman. A daruma doll is generally seen as a symbol of good luck and perseverance, and what could be more "persevere" than a snowman that's on fire?

Just wanted to point out something regarding the name of "Zen Mode"-while it sounds pretty contrasting with the English name being "Zen Mode" (since Galarian Darmanitan's Zen Mode is more of a "Rage Mode"), in Japanese (and in some other languages as well, but Japanese namely) the name of the ability is actually called "Daruma Mode". It seems the entire idea of Darmanitan's transformation from what they intended in terms of design was that it's supposed to reshape itself into something that looks like a Japanese daruma doll, which is sort of the basis of the Darumaka line to begin with, but Darmanitan in both of its forms when at low health transforms into a very doll-like state, whether it be a very motionless doll (Unovan) or an angry and raging doll (Galarian).

Daruma dolls look something like this:

Daruma Doll

This is a traditional Japanese daruma doll, which the "Daruma Mode" of either Darmanitan variant honestly looks similar to. This was lost in the translation, as they changed the name in English from "Daruma Mode" to "Zen Mode", probably to refer to the zen state Darmanitan's daruma doll-like state is in, but this was ultimately a short-sighted translation in hindsight as the Galarian Darmanitan's transformed state is not really "zen" at all (it's angry and fueled by rage): meanwhile, "Daruma Mode" is still accurate even to the Galarian variant's form change.

Just an interesting tidbit of trivia.

I didn't know that! That was a very interesting tidbit, and I can argue Daruma Mode allows better variety of interpretation than Zen Mode.

 

[Worldie]

This is a traditional Japanese daruma doll, which the "Daruma Mode" of either Darmanitan variant honestly looks similar to. This was lost in the translation, as they changed the name in English from "Daruma Mode" to "Zen Mode", probably to refer to the zen state Darmanitan's daruma doll-like state is in, but this was ultimately a short-sighted translation in hindsight as the Galarian Darmanitan's transformed state is not really "zen" at all (it's angry and fueled by rage): meanwhile, "Daruma Mode" is still accurate even to the Galarian variant's form change.

I guess that's one of the issues with localizing: there's no actual way to translate that.
You could call it "Doll mode" but it'd be hard to catch the reference.

On hindsight, I think the translation to "Zen Mode" was fine, the dissonance is more of a consequence of not thinking it over beforehand.
Then again, when they made it I don't think they were thinking to make a new form later down the line yet, in same way when they made MrMime they weren't yet thinking to actually give pokemon genders.

 

[Kurona]

Actually I think the opposite, I think Gen 9 will add in as many Pokemon as it needs to get the number of Pokemon species to that golden number 1,000. Right now we have Zarude at 893 and we're getting a few more Pokemon with Crowned Tundra (and who knows if they have another Mythical Pokemon or two planned). Having less than that would mean Gen 10 either is going to be really limited to reach 1k or goes over 1k completely ignoring that rather major number. So I think Gen 9 we'll be getting to 1k, and that'll leave Gen 10 as a blank slate for them to do what they want.

... Or they can pull a Microsoft and just skip 9 and go to 10 so it's the gen that introduced 1k Pokmeon.

That makes sense; I remember Gen 4 introducing 114 pokemon so it’d be exactly 500

 

[R_N]

I'm not going to fault them for Zen Mode being called what it is in localization. Like it's one thing when calling Mr Mime, uh, Mr Mime, since the idea that genders would be added would be a reasonable assumption for a continuing series about collecting monsters. Or Splash, one I've defended before, I can at least see the "hmm maybe we shouldnt" logic since at its core its meant to be a pun (even though, again, it does also mean splash and was the signature move of a fish out of water).

But this was 5 generations in and nothing like regional forms seemed on the table, much less that they'd give darmanitan that one or that they'd go in a different direction for hypothetical new darmanitan's form change.

Like there's "lacking foresight" and then there's "not being psychic".

 

[RocketSurgery]

It's hard to explain, but it feels like Gen 8 (and the two before it) started out with a list demanding each typing to be represented a certain number of times, and a list of archetypes they had to include, and these lists were used as the basis for the design process until all the boxes were ticked. Many of the designs made to tick boxes were very well done, but the underlying design requirements still show through. And with the regional roster being so small, the design-by-checklist Pokémon dominate the regional dex. It's like Game Freak feel they need some 60 slots in a regional dex to go through the motions, and play more freely with the remaining slots. However, in generations like I, III, or V, there were 70-90 slots to play with after the lists were ticked off. Nowadays, there's 10-20. The designers no longer have the wide freedom they used to, because they want to fulfill two sets of requirements: Make the generations smaller, but still fulfill the quotas. The result is a tiny handful of "original" designs, where there once were dozens upon dozens.

I agree with the general point that GF could stand to get more creative with the standard archetypes (and in some ways they have, e.g., gen 8 fossils), but I think the conclusion doesn't quite point the finger at the right 'culprit': I would argue the dex is only superficially smaller and the non-tropey designs haven't disappeared per se, they've just been used up by designs that don't get their own pokedex number---megas, regional variants, and Gigantamaxes, plus occasional distinct forms of the same mon (thinking Lycanroc, not Alcremie)---stuff which by its nature tends to focus on older mons and not to check the standard archetype boxes.

We tend to focus on the fact that the dex has been smaller the past few gens, but the actual number of new designs is pretty on par with previous gens:

• Gen 6 introduced 72 new pokemon + 50 mega/primals (over the course of both XY and ORAS), giving 122 new designs.
• Gen 7 introduced 81 new pokemon + 18 regional variants for 99 new designs.
• Gen 8 has so far introduced 81 new pokemon + 19 regional forms + 32 Gigantamax forms for 132 new designs.

These numbers don't even account for distinct forms like Lycanroc, Necrozma, Zygarde, Ash-Greninja, and others, which could reasonably be counted here (but again, I wouldn't count things that are mostly palette-swaps, like flabebe, minior, and alcremie). In terms of the comparison to pokedex sizes of earlier generations, the most appropriate comparison here seems to be to gens 2 and 4, for which the dex comprised a large number of cross-gen evolutions. Gen 2 has 18/100 or so Pokemon related to Gen 1, while gen 4 has 28/107 related to previous gens. If we take out cross-gen evolutions and focus solely on purely new Pokemon, Gen 2 and 4 are on par with the number of new Pokemon introduced in the 3D-era gens.

This said, devoting the non-tropey designs to regional variants and the generational gimmicks certainly doesn't feel as satisfying for a number of reasons. For one, these designs pre-dominantly involve previous gen Pokemon, which both constrains the designs and means less purely new Pokemon (a complaint which imo also applies to traditional cross-gen evolutions), and secondly even when things like regional variants are applied to tropey mons it doesn't tick the box for the trope that gen. Like someone suggested earlier in the thread when this topic came up, Alolan Ratatta could easily have served as Gen 7's rodent. (Well, maybe not "easily" because they'd have to alter the first trial due to the 12-hour clock gimmick, but I would happily condemn the yungoos line to oblivion for a more interesting non-tropey 2-stager). Slightly besides my point but relevant to the overall point, Rowlet could also have pulled double-duty as starter+early bird, freeing up the Toucannon line---although personally I like Toucannon and would keep it but just make it a standalone late game mon with decent stats.

And of course another reason the gimmick designs don't feel as satisfying is that Gen 8 has demonstrated that going forward they are almost certainly going to be first in line on the chopping block when GF is deciding what to include in the regional dex. At least regional variants will get to stick around as long as their base mon makes it into the game (and personally I think they are more refreshing than cross-gen evos, at least for now).

Anyways, like I said at the beginning, I mostly agree with the overall point that GF could stand to mix the archetypes up a bit, I just wanted to add on the perspective about the variants/forms, because whenever topics that revolve around the smaller dex size come up, I rarely see it acknowledged that variants/gimmicks have taken on many of the various roles---and taken up many of the resources---that cross-gen evolutions used to take, they just don't get a dex number.