Little things you like about Pokémon

[DrumstickGaming]

Unrelated to everything recently discussed, but as much as I dislike how punishing the Battle Facilities are if you lose, I will give them credit where it is due. I legitimately like the Battle Castle, for many reasons:

1. You have to think carefully about how you use your CP (Castle Points).
Every time you win a battle, you get CP based on how well you did. According to Bulbapedia, this is based on several factors, like how much PP you used, what HP your mons were at when won, if any team members fainted, if your team had status ailments, or if you leveled up your opponent (will get to this in a second). In addition, you can use your CP to buy items, heal HP and PP, identify an opponent’s Pokémon or see their moves, raise/lower mon levels by 5, rank up to increase what you can do with CP and even skip battles (I think after 21 wins).
It cultivates strategy besides mon choices or moves, and unlike any other facility...

2. The early battles actually matter beyond progressing your streak.
Unlike the other facilities where most of the early fights are boring until about the third or fourth “wave” (or set of 7 battles) because of dumb Ai or unevolved mons, the early battles in the Castle actually mean something. You need to know what you need to spend your CP on, if your mon should go without healing for just one more round, and, most importantly, you need to level up the fodder you are facing. You see, if you boost the level of every mon in a team you face, you get an automatic 21 CP. Combine this with playing smart early on and you have the truckloads of CP for the later rounds. In my winning streak of 49 battles for the Gold Print, I was literally able to skip the last two waves save for Darach because I was super stingy with my CP. This cuts down on time spent getting the facility done.

3. Unlike everything save the Tower, there’s no gimmick that can screw you over.
None of the Hall’s “one crit and you die,” the Arcade’s “possibly have a Lagging Tail on all your mons if you misclick” (why is that a thing) or the Factory’s potentially bad mon selections where you get nothing you can use effectively even if you swap every round, you are in control of how much you know, with no gimmick like the Arcade where you know the enemy Pokémon (but not moves and the like) but lack items and must play roulette, or where in the Factory where they eventually stop telling you what you face (for the most part). You can spend CP to identify what team you face to prepare a strategy. You can level down a mon if it is advantageous against your team. In other words, it gives you a lot of leeway despite the fact that you still can’t lose once.

It’s challenging, sure, but you are given the tools to succeed minus a competitively-bred team, and that’s why I like the Battle Castle!

 

[electriczorua]

I like that the music is so diverse, yet you can kind of pick out the general style of the composers and tell who wrote what.
For instance, Shota Kageyama wrote both N's theme and Zinnia's theme. N's is a lot more complex and chromatic, white Zinnia's uses those 4 cliché chords, yet I think I hear a resemblance in his straightforward approach to rhythm.
It's a tiny, tiny thing, but I've found quite a few (music jargon alert) #Iº chords in Go Ichinose's GSC tunes, and I love them. Specifically Viridian City, the Surf theme, and Ecruteak City. It's a versatile little chord for moving between the tonic and predominant (usually ii) and fits in so many styles; you got the bossa/elevator feel of Viridian and the waltzy style of Surf but it works perfectly in both.
A lot of the early battle themes sound super similar, which makes sense considering they were all by Junichi Masuda, but because of that you can pick out his style. Yet his overworld themes (all the RBY ones, Goldenrod, Cherrygrove) are so much simpler. This man wrote the simple earworm that gives you Miltank flashbacks, but he also wrote the Gym Leader themes, which are all so complex in their own ways.
Also I love the subtle uses of time signature switches in the GSC Kanto Gym Leader theme and Icirrus City. In the first, it adds to the tension and jolts you forward without you realizing it; in the latter it creates a dancy feel.

 

[DreamPrince]

I like that the music is so diverse, yet you can kind of pick out the general style of the composers and tell who wrote what.
For instance, Shota Kageyama wrote both N's theme and Zinnia's theme. N's is a lot more complex and chromatic, white Zinnia's uses those 4 cliché chords, yet I think I hear a resemblance in his straightforward approach to rhythm.
It's a tiny, tiny thing, but I've found quite a few (music jargon alert) #Iº chords in Go Ichinose's GSC tunes, and I love them. Specifically Viridian City, the Surf theme, and Ecruteak City. It's a versatile little chord for moving between the tonic and predominant (usually ii) and fits in so many styles; you got the bossa/elevator feel of Viridian and the waltzy style of Surf but it works perfectly in both.
A lot of the early battle themes sound super similar, which makes sense considering they were all by Junichi Masuda, but because of that you can pick out his style. Yet his overworld themes (all the RBY ones, Goldenrod, Cherrygrove) are so much simpler. This man wrote the simple earworm that gives you Miltank flashbacks, but he also wrote the Gym Leader themes, which are all so complex in their own ways.
Also I love the subtle uses of time signature switches in the GSC Kanto Gym Leader theme and Icirrus City. In the first, it adds to the tension and jolts you forward without you realizing it; in the latter it creates a dancy feel.

Building on that, I like how Pokemon has released most of their songs on official albums. Granted, it took until 2014 to start releasing most of them, but better late than never. Most other video games from Nintendo either have been only released as special editions or Japan only. Of course, Pokemon has never released an official artbook despite every other Nintendo franchise has.

Another thing on the Yungoos and Alolan Rattata lines. I know we hate them for being too common, but from Bulbapedia:
Yungoos appears to be based on a mongoose, such as the small Asian mongoose, which was imported to Hawaii to counter the rat problems on sugar cane plantations.

However, the small Asian mongoose is diurnal while rats are nocturnal, thus the small Asian mongoose was ineffective at its intended role and became an invasive species. This is reflected in-game by the fact that Yungoos can only be found during the day, while Alolan Rattata can only be found at night.

Nice details they put in for these families!

 

[Detective Barricade]

Another thing on the Yungoos and Alolan Rattata lines. I know we hate them for being too common, but from Bulbapedia:
Yungoos appears to be based on a mongoose, such as the small Asian mongoose, which was imported to Hawaii to counter the rat problems on sugar cane plantations.

However, the small Asian mongoose is diurnal while rats are nocturnal, thus the small Asian mongoose was ineffective at its intended role and became an invasive species. This is reflected in-game by the fact that Yungoos can only be found during the day, while Alolan Rattata can only be found at night.

Nice details they put in for these families!

But wasn't that already pretty obvious?

 

[Codraroll]

Moreover, implementing something annoying in real life as a main game element doesn't make it less annoying in game. It would be realistic for torches in Minecraft to burn out in a few minutes, or for picking up ammunition in shooting games to take 20-30 seconds of animation of frisking through the fallen opponents' pockets, but it would be pretty bad for the game experience. Likewise, featuring invasive species in a monster collecting game by stuffing the encounter tables with the same three families all throughout the region is rather lousy game design. If an element of the lore can't be implemented in a satisfactory fashion without compromising the play experience, it probably shouldn't be implemented at all.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So, with the Press Conference over I just want to go over my thoughts on what was shown. Though before we begin, as you couldn't already guess from where I'm posting this, I actually liked what I saw. Nothing mindblowing, but they had a lot of little things here and there which may not be groundbreaking but certainly shows the versatility of the Pokemon brand. Also before beginning, Gamexplain also did an analysis with Chuggaaconroy on their thoughts of the Conference and another on the Pokemon Masters trailer. I may parrot some of their thoughts though I'll try to keep to original thoughts and opinions:

Detective Pikachu 2

With the release of the movie it leaves this sequel(?) in a rather awkward place. While the movie had a definite ending that left no mystery unsolved the original game did: where is Tim's dad? And it's brought up in the Gamexplain video that's its unclear if this is a complete sequel or it's the original Detective Pikachu plus additional chapters to finish up the story. But with the reveal about Tim's dad at the end of the movie, will the games also have this as its "plot twist" or will it be going a different route (and if so, would need a different explanation why Tim can understand Detective Pikachu).
Anyway it's a smart and obvious move, "rescuing" the game from the dying 3DS (RIP) as well as banking on the popularity of the movie. And in this day of age there's no reason additional chapters can't be added as DLC if they can come up with interesting cases after the stories conclusion (be the cases taking place after the end or are meant to have happened between the main chapters).

Pokemon Sleep

I can't believe they actually said "give you a reason to wake up in the morning" (you know, cause going to work and making money to live wasn't incentive enough...)
Jokes aside, I'm curious what they exactly plan on doing with this. Skimming over the scary idea that your phone probably already knows the times you sleep, exactly what will the awards be for "playing"? Being the Pokemon Go Plus + (super hyper turbo edition... with Knuckles) is going to work with it I take it that Pokemon Sleep will directly work with Pokemon GO instead of being its own individually app. If so they could make it sort of be like how Gen V's Dream World was like with you having "encountered" Pokemon and gotten items, candies, and maybe Eggs while sleeping (specifically a healthy amount of hours since their goal it to promote healthy sleeping habits).
I'm... not so sure it's quite going to do what the Pokemon Company hopes it'll do (or do it for a long amount of time), but as I said above it does show the possible versatility the Pokemon franchise has. Because one thing they said is true, Pokemon GO made walking long distances entertaining and improved the health of who knows how many people who otherwise would be sitting down most of the day (eating fatty/sugary foods and not absorbing any sunlight). Pokemon has actively helped with healthy daytime activity, so why not try to see if it can't do the same for nighttime inactivity?
And next they can do Pokemon Eat to promote healthy eating, Pokemon Feel to promote healthy ways to express your emotions, Pokemon Hygiene to promote healthy hygienic behavior, Pokemon Planner to promote keeping appointments and schedules, Pokemon Se... okay the joke has run its course.

Pokemon Home

So this is kind of confusing me. According to the graph Pokemon Bank will be compatible with Pokemon HOME, so does that mean for Pokemon GO and the Switch games that HOME will handle storing the Pokemon? Or since Bank can be used in HOME you'll be using Bank to store your Pokemon from these games? Also does this mean that HOME will be having the Bank servers rolled into it thus keeping them up and so you can still use the 3DS bank to store Pokemon with the Gen VI and VII games? Or since they'll be updating the background architecture they're going to make it so Bank may only act as a transfer mechanic (which is better than my fears of the servers closing down completely thus causing a generation lockout).
Eitherway, HOME sounds to be very promising. Not only will you be able to access with a phone app but will let you trade with other players without having to use the ingame GTS (maybe GFs way of getting around forcing the player to buying Nintendo's online service to at very least transfer and trade their Pokemon? If so good on ya, GF). Heck, maybe they could even bring back Global Link features.

Pokemon Masters

Finally, the game I actually wanted to talk about. Yup, originally this post was going to be my quick thoughts on this but I decided to throw in the other major announcements from the Conference as I got inspired to do so by Gamexplain.
So, why am I excited for this most likely Fire Emblem Heroes-like gacha game (which I'm probably not even going to play)? Well, mainly because of the concept of it. For years I always thought it was a shame that all the creatively made and uniquely designed human characters get pushed into the background since Pokemon is about, well, the Pokemon. I got just as excited when B2W2 revealed the Pokemon World Tournament for the same reason, bringing back all these old characters. But while PWT limited itself to the Gym Leader and Champions, I'm hoping Pokemon Masters also include the other notable trainers like Elite Four, Rivals (Blue doesn't count as he's been a Champion & Gym Leader), Frontier Brains, Bosses & Admins of the villains teams, and etc.. They're already shown the playable trainers will be present via Rosa (who's oddly getting a lot of attention these days) and got glimpses of well known Trainer Classes hanging around like Ace Trainers and Blackbelts (thank you Gamexplain for pointing that easily missed cameo out)!
Of course there is a LOT to worry about how they'll handle the gacha elements, especially if you had played Fire Emblem Heroes which I heard was kind of notoriously exploitative with all the alternate costumes it had to offer. Gamexplain brought up a worrying idea that one way they could do this is that you can have multiple of the same trainer but each using a different Pokemon which would be a TERRIBLE idea. Now I do think each trainer should get a number of Pokemon they can be able to use, but I'd rather see that being a feature you can actively switch rather then having to get another version of that same trainer. Not to say they can't have more then one of the same trainer of course, over the years many of these characters have had alternate designs, though like with the Pokemon wouldn't want them to be different characters but just costumes you can get and switch to that trainer to wear (so for example you'll only ever have one Misty but you can choose to have her use either Starmie, Seaking, or Golduck and have her wear her Red & Blue, Johto, Let's Go, or anime clothes once you unlocked them). They could even make special clothes to wear like maybe Pokemon-based outfits or clothing for special events (though let's try to ignore swimsuits and wedding dresses for the female characters...).

 

[Merritt]

Pokemon Home

So this is kind of confusing me. According to the graph Pokemon Bank will be compatible with Pokemon HOME, so does that mean for Pokemon GO and the Switch games that HOME will handle storing the Pokemon? Or since Bank can be used in HOME you'll be using Bank to store your Pokemon from these games? Also does this mean that HOME will be having the Bank servers rolled into it thus keeping them up and so you can still use the 3DS bank to store Pokemon with the Gen VI and VII games? Or since they'll be updating the background architecture they're going to make it so Bank may only act as a transfer mechanic (which is better than my fears of the servers closing down completely thus causing a generation lockout).

From the graph's arrows, the way it looks like it'll function is that you can put Pokemon into Home from Go, Bank, and PLG, but not take them back out (similar to how gen 5 interacted with Bank), and only SwSh will have full back and forth with Home.

What this does all but confirm is that, unless GF does something extremely weird, the moves from PLG will be accessible in gen 8 even if the TMs don't return (so Play Rough Arcanine will be available in Gen 8 standard for example).

 

[DreamPrince]

So, with the Press Conference over I just want to go over my thoughts on what was shown. Though before we begin, as you couldn't already guess from where I'm posting this, I actually liked what I saw. Nothing mindblowing, but they had a lot of little things here and there which may not be groundbreaking but certainly shows the versatility of the Pokemon brand. Also before beginning, Gamexplain also did an analysis with Chuggaaconroy on their thoughts of the Conference and another on the Pokemon Masters trailer. I may parrot some of their thoughts though I'll try to keep to original thoughts and opinions:

Detective Pikachu 2

With the release of the movie it leaves this sequel(?) in a rather awkward place. While the movie had a definite ending that left no mystery unsolved the original game did: where is Tim's dad? And it's brought up in the Gamexplain video that's its unclear if this is a complete sequel or it's the original Detective Pikachu plus additional chapters to finish up the story. But with the reveal about Tim's dad at the end of the movie, will the games also have this as its "plot twist" or will it be going a different route (and if so, would need a different explanation why Tim can understand Detective Pikachu).
Anyway it's a smart and obvious move, "rescuing" the game from the dying 3DS (RIP) as well as banking on the popularity of the movie. And in this day of age there's no reason additional chapters can't be added as DLC if they can come up with interesting cases after the stories conclusion (be the cases taking place after the end or are meant to have happened between the main chapters).

Pokemon Sleep

I can't believe they actually said "give you a reason to wake up in the morning" (you know, cause going to work and making money to live wasn't incentive enough...)
Jokes aside, I'm curious what they exactly plan on doing with this. Skimming over the scary idea that your phone probably already knows the times you sleep, exactly what will the awards be for "playing"? Being the Pokemon Go Plus + (super hyper turbo edition... with Knuckles) is going to work with it I take it that Pokemon Sleep will directly work with Pokemon GO instead of being its own individually app. If so they could make it sort of be like how Gen V's Dream World was like with you having "encountered" Pokemon and gotten items, candies, and maybe Eggs while sleeping (specifically a healthy amount of hours since their goal it to promote healthy sleeping habits).
I'm... not so sure it's quite going to do what the Pokemon Company hopes it'll do (or do it for a long amount of time), but as I said above it does show the possible versatility the Pokemon franchise has. Because one thing they said is true, Pokemon GO made walking long distances entertaining and improved the health of who knows how many people who otherwise would be sitting down most of the day (eating fatty/sugary foods and not absorbing any sunlight). Pokemon has actively helped with healthy daytime activity, so why not try to see if it can't do the same for nighttime inactivity?
And next they can do Pokemon Eat to promote healthy eating, Pokemon Feel to promote healthy ways to express your emotions, Pokemon Hygiene to promote healthy hygienic behavior, Pokemon Planner to promote keeping appointments and schedules, Pokemon Se... okay the joke has run its course.

Pokemon Home

So this is kind of confusing me. According to the graph Pokemon Bank will be compatible with Pokemon HOME, so does that mean for Pokemon GO and the Switch games that HOME will handle storing the Pokemon? Or since Bank can be used in HOME you'll be using Bank to store your Pokemon from these games? Also does this mean that HOME will be having the Bank servers rolled into it thus keeping them up and so you can still use the 3DS bank to store Pokemon with the Gen VI and VII games? Or since they'll be updating the background architecture they're going to make it so Bank may only act as a transfer mechanic (which is better than my fears of the servers closing down completely thus causing a generation lockout).
Eitherway, HOME sounds to be very promising. Not only will you be able to access with a phone app but will let you trade with other players without having to use the ingame GTS (maybe GFs way of getting around forcing the player to buying Nintendo's online service to at very least transfer and trade their Pokemon? If so good on ya, GF). Heck, maybe they could even bring back Global Link features.

Pokemon Masters

Finally, the game I actually wanted to talk about. Yup, originally this post was going to be my quick thoughts on this but I decided to throw in the other major announcements from the Conference as I got inspired to do so by Gamexplain.
So, why am I excited for this most likely Fire Emblem Heroes-like gacha game (which I'm probably not even going to play)? Well, mainly because of the concept of it. For years I always thought it was a shame that all the creatively made and uniquely designed human characters get pushed into the background since Pokemon is about, well, the Pokemon. I got just as excited when B2W2 revealed the Pokemon World Tournament for the same reason, bringing back all these old characters. But while PWT limited itself to the Gym Leader and Champions, I'm hoping Pokemon Masters also include the other notable trainers like Elite Four, Rivals (Blue doesn't count as he's been a Champion & Gym Leader), Frontier Brains, Bosses & Admins of the villains teams, and etc.. They're already shown the playable trainers will be present via Rosa (who's oddly getting a lot of attention these days) and got glimpses of well known Trainer Classes hanging around like Ace Trainers and Blackbelts (thank you Gamexplain for pointing that easily missed cameo out)!
Of course there is a LOT to worry about how they'll handle the gacha elements, especially if you had played Fire Emblem Heroes which I heard was kind of notoriously exploitative with all the alternate costumes it had to offer. Gamexplain brought up a worrying idea that one way they could do this is that you can have multiple of the same trainer but each using a different Pokemon which would be a TERRIBLE idea. Now I do think each trainer should get a number of Pokemon they can be able to use, but I'd rather see that being a feature you can actively switch rather then having to get another version of that same trainer. Not to say they can't have more then one of the same trainer of course, over the years many of these characters have had alternate designs, though like with the Pokemon wouldn't want them to be different characters but just costumes you can get and switch to that trainer to wear (so for example you'll only ever have one Misty but you can choose to have her use either Starmie, Seaking, or Golduck and have her wear her Red & Blue, Johto, Let's Go, or anime clothes once you unlocked them). They could even make special clothes to wear like maybe Pokemon-based outfits or clothing for special events (though let's try to ignore swimsuits and wedding dresses for the female characters...).

For Detective Pikachu, I'm really hoping its a sequel, because a port sounds kind of unfair for the 3DS players. And even if it is, I hope it doesn't continue just because the story of Tim and Pikachu are finished. Its a great new take on the Pokemon Franchise, since it promotes world building. But knowing how all spin-offs ( except Go ) seem to have faded out of existence.

As for home, I'm just glad Go Pokemon can be finally brought to the core RPGs. A question I have is that will Meltan have a new evolution method in SwSh? Can a Bank Account be used alongside a Home Account or are they separate?

As for Pokemon Masters, I enjoy that they are finally promoting the human characters ( Where's N though? ) Though I feel its kind of unnecessary. The Pokemon Company already has Rumble Rush, Go, and Quest for the mobile market- the former having Gacha elements as well. The reason I say that is because unlike Fire Emblem Heroes, Pokemon is incredibly successful it doesn't need another game to sell it. For all the controversy that Fire Emblem Heroes gets, its great at selling the franchise ( which is good because Fire Emblem is very small compared to Pokemon) I had a friend who entered Fire Emblem through Heroes and then when I got her Fates, she became fan very easily. As for Alternate Costumes, I don't think its the Alts or money that its outrageous ( It has yet to recieve backlash for abusing gacha and Heroes is very generous for a gacha game- I've gotten over 100 orbs without spending a penny. The reason the Alts recieve controversy is that the characters who primarily get them are from Awakening and Fates- but as Chuggaconroy and GamExplain pointed out it makes sense- these games sold the most, hence the more representation. The other games were only released in Japan or simply didn't sell well internationally. Luckily all Pokemon Core RPGs have been released internationally, so that kind of representation should not be a problem. But we've seen Game Freak handle favorites, so yeah... Expect controversy over Serena getting 6 swim suits alternates.

I think a more interesting and potential approach would be to take a spin-off franchise and make it a mobile game- I think Ranger would be a good choice since it primarily uses a touch screen which can be easily handled via mobile phones. Would also be great for reviving some franchises spin-off franchises from Ranger.

 

[Worldie]

So this is kind of confusing me. According to the graph Pokemon Bank will be compatible with Pokemon HOME, so does that mean for Pokemon GO and the Switch games that HOME will handle storing the Pokemon? Or since Bank can be used in HOME you'll be using Bank to store your Pokemon from these games? Also does this mean that HOME will be having the Bank servers rolled into it thus keeping them up and so you can still use the 3DS bank to store Pokemon with the Gen VI and VII games? Or since they'll be updating the background architecture they're going to make it so Bank may only act as a transfer mechanic (which is better than my fears of the servers closing down completely thus causing a generation lockout).
Eitherway, HOME sounds to be very promising. Not only will you be able to access with a phone app but will let you trade with other players without having to use the ingame GTS (maybe GFs way of getting around forcing the player to buying Nintendo's online service to at very least transfer and trade their Pokemon? If so good on ya, GF). Heck, maybe they could even bring back Global Link features.

It actually looked pretty simple to me.

"Home" is the "Bank" for Switch. It will have a one-way transfer from both Bank, Go and Let's Go, and will act normally for gen 8 games, as well as being able to actually be used for trading pokemon with other Home users.

Overally, much better than what I expected.

My only question on that regard is going to be how Pokemon Go pokemon will have their nature and Ability rolled (I assume IVs will use same formula they use for the Go Park in Let's Go), but that's something we'll get to know eventually.

 

[DreamPrince]

It actually looked pretty simple to me.

"Home" is the "Bank" for Switch. It will have a one-way transfer from both Bank, Go and Let's Go, and will act normally for gen 8 games, as well as being able to actually be used for trading pokemon with other Home users.

Overally, much better than what I expected.

My only question on that regard is going to be how Pokemon Go pokemon will have their nature and Ability rolled (I assume IVs will use same formula they use for the Go Park in Let's Go), but that's something we'll get to know eventually.

I’m assume that it’s going to be HAs and Natures will probably either be random or determined by rolling like in virtual console.

 

[Worldie]

determined by rolling like in virtual console.

Natures aren't determined by rolling from the VC. Natures are calculated based on the experience your pokemon have, thus can actually be easily manipulated.

As for HAs, wouldn't surprise me if guaranteed HA was the case, obviously.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Say, since for Pokemon Bank they brought back Brigette, do you think they'll bring back another PC Developer for Pokemon HOME? Hayley would seem to be the obvious choice, especially if they plan on doing the Sinnoh remakes this gen. A ranch is a type of home if you look at it in a certain way.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So, I just found a blogger/Youtuber named LavaCutContent who recently started making articles concerning Pokemon designs that was discussed in Japanese magazines.

First article reveals the famous magazine picture that first depicted Tyranitar along with what many assumed to be a beta Hitmontop and a turtle Pokemon... wasn't the case at all!

Ken Sugimori apparently just drew these characters just for the magazine, at that point in time they were not beta Pokemon or trainers! Yet with one obviously being Tyranitar, my guess is that when the magazine was released the other GF staff members liked the design so much they refined it into Tyranitar.
But that now makes me wonder if people thinking the other two Pokemon are proto-Hitmontop and proto-Tirtouga is also true. Yes, they have similarities and I would say that maybe the proto-Hitmontop's concept was adapted into Hitmontop, but the turtle one I really question. Because that's just it, it's a turtle, not exactly that ground breaking of a design. Nothing to really say about the "trainers", one does look like a proto-Morty though either that was just a popular design or, like with Tyranitar, the design was liked and re-used and redone to make Morty.

Second and third article are two of seven articles of a Ken Sugimori magazine interview discussing designs of the Gen V Pokemon. Three things to note: 1. they don't have all the issues so right now it looks like this is all we have, 2. multiple issues sometimes discuss the same Pokemon (though the two here don't), and 3. some information we already know (infact this could be the source of that information though for some reason not all the information was recorded).

A Quick Run Down

Torandus, Thundurus & Landorus: Masuda gave the order to make Pokemon based on Fujin & Raijin (Torandus & Thundurus) but weren't finished late in BW's development. Inspiration for their pose was based on Asura statues. They were designed to be red & blue demons, but that was too close to Sawk and Throh (who would later have their horns replaced with eyebrows because of the Forces of Nature had horns). Landorus was later decided to be added as a god of land, probably explaining their late finish.

Meinfoo family: Made because they didn't have a lot of Fighting-types. Originally humanoid but later chosen to be more animal-like. Chose kung fu style as they hadn't done it yet.

Deino family: Originally meant to be tanks (what remains of that design is the trademarks on their stomacks), didn't work out so was put away in the vault until an order for a powerful three-stage Dragon-type was made. Redesigned to be Yamata no Orichi but too many heads didn't look right, so decided for Hydreigon it would have one head but its hands were made to look like heads so in silhouette would look like it had a lot of heads (possibly also referring to the thin wings). Color was later decided to be dark purple as they wanted to fill out that color in the dex.

Golett family: Made by James Turner. Mr. Turner writes a lot of details about his Pokemon design, his Twitter may be something to also check out.

Vanillite family: Another designed by James Turner. The white tops is snow and comes off revealing a body made of ice. They have artwork from Turner of what they look like without the snow but only Vanillite had officially been revealed via a mini comic in a magazine... but Turner later released what Vanillish looked like without it's snow on his Twitter! He also confirmed that the Vanillite looked like his reference art so, by his viewpoint, it's canon what the comic showed.

Durant & Heatmor: Originally they wanted an ant Pokemon to be the smallest Pokemon, but Sugimori just focused on the design for Durant. Heatmor actually eats the iron so was designed partially on an iron forge.

Tynamo family: Eelektrick is based on an ugly eel that designer Yusuke Ohmura once caught while fishing. Tynamo was made to reference the actual life cycle of an eel.

Rufflet family: Made by Takao Unno. Unova based in New York, New York is in America, and when you associate an animal with America you think the bald eagle. Incorporated the flag's color of red, white, and blue & gave it elements of Native American culture.

Vullaby family: Made by Turner. They had a lot of bird Pokemon already but ended up using it as a counterpart to the Rufflet family. Nests are made of bones, Vullaby's diaper is a top of a skull, Mandibuzz's skirt is the bottom jaw, and when Mandibuzz is incubating Vullaby it looks like an upside down skull.

Foongus family: Since you wouldn't confuse an Amoongus for a Pokeball that was incorporated into its Japanese name, Morobareru. From Bulbapedia: "Morobareru is a combination of もろに moro ni (completely) and ばれる bareru (slang for "[for a secret] to be exposed")"

Ferroseed family: Orders given to make a Steel/Grass, based it on seed pods that stuck to clothes but these would stick to rocks in large groups.

Basculin: Needed a basic fish, bass are native to New York, and made it into two because they needed more Water-types.

Swords of Justice: Made by Unno. Obviously based on the Three Musketeers. Only interesting design info is that Terrakion's blade was made to look like an axe, stopping opponent's blows and push them back.

Cottonee family & Petilil family: Designed by Atsuko Nishida. They already had a lot of Grass-types but liked the designs so kept them and make them version exclusives. Petilil family was supposed to be a three-stage but due to there being too many Grass-types and it was made a counterpart to Cottonee family it was shrunk down to two-stage.

Larvesta family: Larvesta based on the Taiyo no To ("Tower of the Sun"). The dark spots on Volcarona's wings represent sunspots.

Axew family: Sugimori mentioned was made by a female designer that Lavacutcontent theorizes to be Mana Ibe (which Bulbapedia also credits). They actually already made Haxorus and Ibe worked backwards to created Fraxure and Axew.

Darumaka family: Made by a newcomer which is also theorized to be Ibe which Bulbapedia also credits. Reason it's a gorilla is because at a festival they went to the daruma being burned was shaped like a gorilla.

Klink Family: They're neato.

Stunfisk: Ibe originally wanted to create the "flattest" Pokemon so made a Water/Electric one based on a blue-colored Goosefish. Due to type balancing it was made Ground/Electric and design altered to make it look like a flounder.

Frillish family: Meant to be pure Water-type, but was change to Water/Ghost and given a creepy appearance much to the original creators disappointment. That said Lavacutcontent says that it sounds like the creator made the necessary changes for it to be Ghost/Water due to how the article was written. It's pointed that's not always the case as Turner once tweeted Bruxish was initially made by a female designer but he did the final touch-ups and drew the reference sheets.

Pawniard family: Nothing interesting really you couldn't get from the Pokedex.

Deerling family: It's design existed before the idea of seasons and Bulbapedia just so happens to have an image of the proto-Sawsbuck:

(Not surprisingly the horns was always going to be plants, but it was also going to have heavy fur which looked like tree roots and a seed on the front of its neck. Wonder if the heavy coat was later re-used for Gogoat)

Tympole family: Another where they came up with the final evo first (this time Seismitoad) and then worked backwards.

Dwebble family: Shells originally supposed to be made of kiln-fired pottery to be a "furnace Pokemon", but design looked slow and awkward so made the shells have sharper edges. Now, considering it STILL looks slow (Crustle's Speed being 45) and awkward with that giant block of rock it really makes me wonder what the initial design looked like if this was considered the more suitable looking.

Scraggy family: Made with the concept of low-worn baggy pants, originally weren't sure if the designed got that across but sprite animations made the intention more clear.

Yamask family: They're neato.

Litwik family: Originally it was supposed to be a flame, candle, then lamp. However had a hard to evolving the flame into the candle to made candle the first form.

Fourth and final article is based on discovered beta sprites and controversy around them.

Article obviously goes into the entire history, but long story short the creator of the site Helix Chamber was given a batch of beta sprites for Gen I (mainly Pokemon back sprites, the region map, and some trainer sprites). However instead of presenting the information straight they cobbled together a romhack, even filling in some of the missing content with fanmade content, and presented it that way on a livestream. However due to a batch of additional factors this wasn't made clear (not helped that the streamer actually asked for donations to show dex entries that were completely made up). Helix Chamber would later release an article detailing the beta stuff they got but even then there's some problems.

EDIT: And looking through Helix Chamber they also have a batch of interesting articles. Mainly looking through the internal list and coming up with theorizes how the original Pokemon line-up was like, they also have one about a broadcast Pokemon did showing the original Capumon binder and showed some interesting beta art for certain Pokemon plus overworld sprites including one that may have looked like a female playable character.

Scyther was more like a dragon, Gyarados was a shelled lamprey, and there was a robot Pokemon named Omega (next to Blastoise).

 

[DreamPrince]

So, I just found a blogger/Youtuber named LavaCutContent who recently started making articles concerning Pokemon designs that was discussed in Japanese magazines.

First article reveals the famous magazine picture that first depicted Tyranitar along with what many assumed to be a beta Hitmontop and a turtle Pokemon... wasn't the case at all!

Ken Sugimori apparently just drew these characters just for the magazine, at that point in time they were not beta Pokemon or trainers! Yet with one obviously being Tyranitar, my guess is that when the magazine was released the other GF staff members liked the design so much they refined it into Tyranitar.
But that now makes me wonder if people thinking the other two Pokemon are proto-Hitmontop and proto-Tirtouga is also true. Yes, they have similarities and I would say that maybe the proto-Hitmontop's concept was adapted into Hitmontop, but the turtle one I really question. Because that's just it, it's a turtle, not exactly that ground breaking of a design. Nothing to really say about the "trainers", one does look like a proto-Morty though either that was just a popular design or, like with Tyranitar, the design was liked and re-used and redone to make Morty.

Second and third article are two of seven articles of a Ken Sugimori magazine interview discussing designs of the Gen V Pokemon. Three things to note: 1. they don't have all the issues so right now it looks like this is all we have, 2. multiple issues sometimes discuss the same Pokemon (though the two here don't), and 3. some information we already know (infact this could be the source of that information though for some reason not all the information was recorded).

A Quick Run Down

Torandus, Thundurus & Landorus: Masuda gave the order to make Pokemon based on Fujin & Raijin (Torandus & Thundurus) but weren't finished late in BW's development. Inspiration for their pose was based on Asura statues. They were designed to be red & blue demons, but that was too close to Sawk and Throh (who would later have their horns replaced with eyebrows because of the Forces of Nature had horns). Landorus was later decided to be added as a god of land, probably explaining their late finish.

Meinfoo family: Made because they didn't have a lot of Fighting-types. Originally humanoid but later chosen to be more animal-like. Chose kung fu style as they hadn't done it yet.

Deino family: Originally meant to be tanks (what remains of that design is the trademarks on their stomacks), didn't work out so was put away in the vault until an order for a powerful three-stage Dragon-type was made. Redesigned to be Yamata no Orichi but too many heads didn't look right, so decided for Hydreigon it would have one head but its hands were made to look like heads so in silhouette would look like it had a lot of heads (possibly also referring to the thin wings). Color was later decided to be dark purple as they wanted to fill out that color in the dex.

Golett family: Made by James Turner. Mr. Turner writes a lot of details about his Pokemon design, his Twitter may be something to also check out.

Vanillite family: Another designed by James Turner. The white tops is snow and comes off revealing a body made of ice. They have artwork from Turner of what they look like without the snow but only Vanillite had officially been revealed via a mini comic in a magazine... but Turner later released what Vanillish looked like without it's snow on his Twitter! He also confirmed that the Vanillite looked like his reference art so, by his viewpoint, it's canon what the comic showed.

Durant & Heatmor: Originally they wanted an ant Pokemon to be the smallest Pokemon, but Sugimori just focused on the design for Durant. Heatmor actually eats the iron so was designed partially on an iron forge.

Tynamo family: Eelektrick is based on an ugly eel that designer Yusuke Ohmura once caught while fishing. Tynamo was made to reference the actual life cycle of an eel.

Rufflet family: Made by Takao Unno. Unova based in New York, New York is in America, and when you associate an animal with America you think the bald eagle. Incorporated the flag's color of red, white, and blue & gave it elements of Native American culture.

Vullaby family: Made by Turner. They had a lot of bird Pokemon already but ended up using it as a counterpart to the Rufflet family. Nests are made of bones, Vullaby's diaper is a top of a skull, Mandibuzz's skirt is the bottom jaw, and when Mandibuzz is incubating Vullaby it looks like an upside down skull.

Foongus family: Since you wouldn't confuse an Amoongus for a Pokeball that was incorporated into its Japanese name, Morobareru. From Bulbapedia: "Morobareru is a combination of もろに moro ni (completely) and ばれる bareru (slang for "[for a secret] to be exposed")"

Ferroseed family: Orders given to make a Steel/Grass, based it on seed pods that stuck to clothes but these would stick to rocks in large groups.

Basculin: Needed a basic fish, bass are native to New York, and made it into two because they needed more Water-types.

Swords of Justice: Made by Unno. Obviously based on the Three Musketeers. Only interesting design info is that Terrakion's blade was made to look like an axe, stopping opponent's blows and push them back.

Cottonee family & Petilil family: Designed by Atsuko Nishida. They already had a lot of Grass-types but liked the designs so kept them and make them version exclusives. Petilil family was supposed to be a three-stage but due to there being too many Grass-types and it was made a counterpart to Cottonee family it was shrunk down to two-stage.

Larvesta family: Larvesta based on the Taiyo no To ("Tower of the Sun"). The dark spots on Volcarona's wings represent sunspots.

Axew family: Sugimori mentioned was made by a female designer that Lavacutcontent theorizes to be Mana Ibe (which Bulbapedia also credits). They actually already made Haxorus and Ibe worked backwards to created Fraxure and Axew.

Darumaka family: Made by a newcomer which is also theorized to be Ibe which Bulbapedia also credits. Reason it's a gorilla is because at a festival they went to the daruma being burned was shaped like a gorilla.

Klink Family: They're neato.

Stunfisk: Ibe originally wanted to create the "flattest" Pokemon so made a Water/Electric one based on a blue-colored Goosefish. Due to type balancing it was made Ground/Electric and design altered to make it look like a flounder.

Frillish family: Meant to be pure Water-type, but was change to Water/Ghost and given a creepy appearance much to the original creators disappointment. That said Lavacutcontent says that it sounds like the creator made the necessary changes for it to be Ghost/Water due to how the article was written. It's pointed that's not always the case as Turner once tweeted Bruxish was initially made by a female designer but he did the final touch-ups and drew the reference sheets.

Pawniard family: Nothing interesting really you couldn't get from the Pokedex.

Deerling family: It's design existed before the idea of seasons and Bulbapedia just so happens to have an image of the proto-Sawsbuck:

(Not surprisingly the horns was always going to be plants, but it was also going to have heavy fur which looked like tree roots and a seed on the front of its neck. Wonder if the heavy coat was later re-used for Gogoat)

Tympole family: Another where they came up with the final evo first (this time Seismitoad) and then worked backwards.

Dwebble family: Shells originally supposed to be made of kiln-fired pottery to be a "furnace Pokemon", but design looked slow and awkward so made the shells have sharper edges. Now, considering it STILL looks slow (Crustle's Speed being 45) and awkward with that giant block of rock it really makes me wonder what the initial design looked like if this was considered the more suitable looking.

Scraggy family: Made with the concept of low-worn baggy pants, originally weren't sure if the designed got that across but sprite animations made the intention more clear.

Yamask family: They're neato.

Litwik family: Originally it was supposed to be a flame, candle, then lamp. However had a hard to evolving the flame into the candle to made candle the first form.

Fourth and final article is based on discovered beta sprites and controversy around them.

Article obviously goes into the entire history, but long story short the creator of the site Helix Chamber was given a batch of beta sprites for Gen I (mainly Pokemon back sprites, the region map, and some trainer sprites). However instead of presenting the information straight they cobbled together a romhack, even filling in some of the missing content with fanmade content, and presented it that way on a livestream. However due to a batch of additional factors this wasn't made clear (not helped that the streamer actually asked for donations to show dex entries that were completely made up). Helix Chamber would later release an article detailing the beta stuff they got but even then there's some problems.

EDIT: And looking through Helix Chamber they also have a batch of interesting articles. Mainly looking through the internal list and coming up with theorizes how the original Pokemon line-up was like, they also have one about a broadcast Pokemon did showing the original Capumon binder and showed some interesting beta art for certain Pokemon plus overworld sprites including one that may have looked like a female playable character.

Scyther was more like a dragon, Gyarados was a shelled lamprey, and there was a robot Pokemon named Omega (next to Blastoise).

Interesting how he calls James Turner an " English Man " and refers to Mana Ibe as a "newcomer" . Interestingly, according to Bulbapedia, Mana Ibe designed Frillish and Jellicent. Wonder why he didn't refer them by real names? Maybe it was because of privacy? I remember people in Japan care about their privacy a lot to the point where people can have their names removed from phone books. Windows are designed so people can’t spy easily.

I really enjoyed seeing all the concept art and how they went through the changes. But what Pokémon really needs is an art book. It would be so great to see and learn how Pokémon games are designed and created, especially since some are really complicated. I refuse to believe that there are very little rough work of Pokémon art. Come on, Sugimori publish one. Fire Emblem, Legend of Zelda and Mario have artbooks of their games, why not Pokémon?

I remember reading somewhere that the Therian Formes were designed as an ‘ apology ‘ for the designs being too late as well as looking to similar. Not sure where I read it though.

 

[stage7_4]

An underrated gem from the English dub:

We all agree this is the best Pokemon anime movie, right?

For those too young to get this anymore, a personal ad was like Tinder's ancestor.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

We all agree this is the best Pokemon anime movie, right?

I actually found the movie confusing as shit and never really understood the hype behind it.

 

[stage7_4]

I actually found the movie confusing as shit and never really understood the hype behind it.

I wouldn't say "hype," it's more that Pokemon 3: Spell of the Unknown is one of the best most competent of the pokemon anime movies, and for that it has a handful of fans. Admittedly the bar is set pretty low, as most of the anime movies are not very good (the Deoxys, Hoopa, Shaymin, or Genesect ones competing for worst).

The big draw is either Dan Green voicing Entei with the deepest voice ever, or it's one of the very few movies where Ash has a reason to get involved with the plot. Molly is also one of the better written movie "villains" in that she actually has character, sympathy, and actually learns something compared to the flatter than pancakes antagonists like Zero or Lawrence III. That and some sincerely like the visuals and sound direction, giving it a very somber dark fantasy feel that none of the other movies have.

It really looks like an old fairy tale.

While if you don't like it that's your business, but if you find this one confusing I can only imagine what you think of the others. This was one of the more straight forward plots (the Unknown make a child's depression induced fantasy become real, and Entei kidnaps Ash's mom on a 5-year-old's whim. Stop the Unknown, save mom, get little girl to accept reality. That's the plot in a nutshell).

 

[BP]

One thing I really like about Pokemon is being able to play with the old teams that I've had as a kid back in the day. LMAO RIP

 

[yourDeadGrandad]

I like that even though GameFreak 'ruins' Pokemon every generation, we'll still be here in 2050 deciding whether to get Pokemon Cocoa Puffs or Pokemon Frosted Flakes, arguing that even though FusionMax was a cool mechanic, it's clearly Gen I pandering to give PikaTwo a Mecha Evolution.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I wouldn't say "hype," it's more that Pokemon 3: Spell of the Unknown is one of the best most competent of the pokemon anime movies, and for that it has a handful of fans. Admittedly the bar is set pretty low, as most of the anime movies are not very good (the Deoxys, Hoopa, Shaymin, or Genesect ones competing for worst).

The big draw is either Dan Green voicing Entei with the deepest voice ever, or it's one of the very few movies where Ash has a reason to get involved with the plot. Molly is also one of the better written movie "villains" in that she actually has character, sympathy, and actually learns something compared to the flatter than pancakes antagonists like Zero or Lawrence III. That and some sincerely like the visuals and sound direction, giving it a very somber dark fantasy feel that none of the other movies have.

View attachment 180982
It really looks like an old fairy tale.

While if you don't like it that's your business, but if you find this one confusing I can only imagine what you think of the others. This was one of the more straight forward plots (the Unknown make a child's depression induced fantasy become real, and Entei kidnaps Ash's mom on a 5-year-old's whim. Stop the Unknown, save mom, get little girl to accept reality. That's the plot in a nutshell).

Huh. I guess I was so young when I watched it that most of it flew over my head, and I was left confused about stuff like how Molly could really be battling if that version of her wasn't real. I'll have to give it another watch some time.

Also, I liked the Hoopa movie. It was stupid action, but it was fun.

 

[Codraroll]

I wouldn't say "hype," it's more that Pokemon 3: Spell of the Unknown is one of the best most competent of the pokemon anime movies, and for that it has a handful of fans. Admittedly the bar is set pretty low, as most of the anime movies are not very good (the Deoxys, Hoopa, Shaymin, or Genesect ones competing for worst).

Myself, I'm actually partial to the Deoxys movie as one of my favourites. At least if you disregard the ending where the city goes haywire for no other reason than for Ash to be a hero, or the dumb subplot with the kid who has to learn not to be afraid of Pokémon. Most of Destiny Deoxys plays out like a disaster movie, where the battle between Deoxys and Rayquaza is like hurricane or an earthquake; a catastrophe where our heroes have no influence and just need to get out of the way. It's refreshing to see a plot that's bigger than what happens around Ash and his friends (again, until the very end where the contrived hero moment comes up) and a movie without a clear villain.

 

[stage7_4]

I should qualify that the Deoxys, Hoopa, Shaymin, and Genesect movies are the ones the collective fanbase tend to regard as the worst, or the ones that pop up in discussion the most. Individual taste open to interpretation.

To tell truth, I haven't seen the Genesect nor Hoopa movies and found the Deoxys one passable (I liked the parts focused on Plusle and Minun of all things, something I bet nobody else would agree with).

I do find the Shaymin movie absolutely terrible, mostly because how much of an unbearable brat Shaymin is.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I like that even though GameFreak 'ruins' Pokemon every generation, we'll still be here in 2050 deciding whether to get Pokemon Cocoa Puffs or Pokemon Frosted Flakes, arguing that even though FusionMax was a cool mechanic, it's clearly Gen I pandering to give PikaTwo a Mecha Evolution.

I always like how people complain about the new designs every generation. I'm more welcoming about each design. I mean, I used to be one of those types, but I realize, you should just give it some time for the stuff to settle in and then see if you are still okay about it. Most accusations that new pokemon are just "digimon" or "generic" or something but I always found these as baseless as people saying "it lacks charm" or whatever. Designing new Pokemon is hard I'd imagine. You have to draw tons of images for new ideas, some filtered out, and then once you have a final design you have to make model concepts and draw several angles of the Pokemon so the spriters and models get the proportions correct.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Talking about unlikely movies, I feel the one with Keldeo & Kyurem is underappreciated. I feel Keldeo is a well written character, maybe a bit cliche at times but it's a tried and true character arc is goes through, and at the end adds a little twist which adds some more depth to the trope then usual. Starting at the beginning Keldeo's relation with the other Swords of Justice feels like they're a whole family with each one having their role: Cobalion is the stern father figure, Virizion is the nurturing motherly figure, and Terrakion is the easygoing uncle figure. They prove themselves capable and cool-looking guardians of the forest, and Keldeo's combined admiration and immaturity explains his rash actions in a believable way. I also like how during Keldeo's initial battle with Kyurem, you'd think it would be Virizion who would want to jump to Keldeo's aide but she shows her wisdom by saying this is Keldeo's test and it's actually Terrakion who jumps in as he's the most worried not really thinking about it as a test. Sadly this gets them frozen and forces them to sit out most of the movie.

Kyurem was an alright antagonists though I kind of wish more about it was explained. Why is it the one who gets to choose who becomes a Sword of Justice? How can it change forms? Why is the test so important it dedicates the majority of the movie chasing down Keldeo?

But it all leads to what I think is one of the better climaxes, the second battle of Kyurem vs. Keldeo. I like how it starts as the first originally did, Kyurem creating the ice gate for Keldeo to walk through. Though Kyurem's pursuit is odd, what's been an important part about this whole thing is that Kyurem has been testing Keldeo. So after a movie's worth of gaining its confidence back and going back to Kyurme's lair, Kyurem begins to show its true motives(?) restarting the test. And then the battle starts and its a pretty good fight, Keldeo feels outmatched but it gets in good hits. However, things take a twist when Kyurem gets Keldeo under its foot. With seemingly no escape, and having learned on his short journey with Ash & co., Keldeo does the one thing he can only do: he submits. He admits defeat, even if he were to somehow escape he knows Kyurem can wear him down. And with that, Kyurem lifts up its foot and congratulates Keldeo, he has passed his test and is given the title Swords of Justice. The test was never about defeating Kyurem, but for the challenger to use their ability at their fullest and assess the situation to know when they've reached their limit. It's a nice double twist, Keldeo not winning not from being defeated but forfeiting, and Kyurem revealing Keldeo did exactly what it needed to past the test. The final scene of it doing the "all for one, one for all" pose with the other Swords of Justice does feel earned. It's not perfect, obviously, I was kind of expecting after the "all for one, one for all" pose and everyone gives praise to Keldeo for Cobalion to then go "oh, by the way, you're grounded for disobeying us and getting us frozen"; both a bit of humor and giving Keldeo SOME kind of punishment for his rash actions. You could also argue that Ash & co. didn't have much of a role during the final battle but I kind of like they just played a supporting role and let the titled Legendaries do their thing which is all why we're watching the movie.

 

[stage7_4]

Someone once told me that Kyurem in the Keldeo movie is basically what happens when an underleveled knight aggros the highest leveled enemy in the area.

I agree with you about the climax being one of the more interesting ones for a pokemon anime movie. Really the only thing holding the Keldeo movie back is that you could cut Ash and company out and not lose much (a trait sadly held by a LOT of these movies).

But it is one of the better ones and the whole thing seemed like an apology for the Shaymin movie (or at least trying to do similar plot beats with way better execution).