(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Ok but can we talk about how stagnant and bland the early route rodent archetype has remained? Birds and bugs have gotten so much stronger and experimented with different types (Talonflame, Vikavolt, Orbeetle, Corviknight etc.) but there has almost never been any meaningful graduation for the rodents beyond weak two stage pure normal. Starting from Unova you got

Watchog: lol
Diggersby: Actually kinda cool... but only in pvp since Huge Power is bafflingly relegated to being its HA
Gumshoos: lol
Greedent: lol
Maushold: The true big exception. Reasonably strong in a unique way and has a fun concept that has made it popular with fans. That said it has taken so long to get to this point that it's impossible to know if this is a Staraptor-esque permanent shift for the archetype or a fluke
 
Yung Dramps said:
Ok but can we talk about how stagnant and bland the early route rodent archetype has remained? Birds and bugs have gotten so much stronger and experimented with different types (Talonflame, Vikavolt, Orbeetle, Corviknight etc.) but there has almost never been any meaningful graduation for the rodents beyond weak two stage pure normal. Starting from Unova you got

Watchog: lol
Diggersby: Actually kinda cool... but only in pvp since Huge Power is bafflingly relegated to being its HA
Gumshoos: lol
Greedent: lol
Maushold: The true big exception. Reasonably strong in a unique way and has a fun concept that has made it popular with fans. That said it has taken so long to get to this point that it's impossible to know if this is a Staraptor-esque permanent shift for the archetype or a fluke
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Praying on that gumshoos buff
He has great abilities but too slow and frail to do anytin with em....
Also hopeful with maushold and lokix that in the future the early routers atleast have a niche
 
Yung Dramps said:
Ok but can we talk about how stagnant and bland the early route rodent archetype has remained? Birds and bugs have gotten so much stronger and experimented with different types (Talonflame, Vikavolt, Orbeetle, Corviknight etc.) but there has almost never been any meaningful graduation for the rodents beyond weak two stage pure normal. Starting from Unova you got

Watchog: lol
Diggersby: Actually kinda cool... but only in pvp since Huge Power is bafflingly relegated to being its HA
Gumshoos: lol
Greedent: lol
Maushold: The true big exception. Reasonably strong in a unique way and has a fun concept that has made it popular with fans. That said it has taken so long to get to this point that it's impossible to know if this is a Staraptor-esque permanent shift for the archetype or a fluke
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While they are literally a rodent, I feel like Lechonk is meant to be the true early game normal type not Maushold. It's much mroe in your face, available the earliest and also more widespread around the region.

FWIW I think Greedent & Oinkologne have an interesting niche in that they leaned hard into bulk. Greedent has 120 HP which unlike Spidops, really helps bolster its otherwise-just-okay defensive stats and it still has a workable attacking stat. Oinkologne has a pretty similar stat spread and also the male has the goofy aroma gimmick.
I've always kind of appreciated that Watchog has a bunch of weird utility moves, stands out from its "peers"


They should experiment more with dual typings, though.
 
Yung Dramps said:
Ok but can we talk about how stagnant and bland the early route rodent archetype has remained? Birds and bugs have gotten so much stronger and experimented with different types (Talonflame, Vikavolt, Orbeetle, Corviknight etc.) but there has almost never been any meaningful graduation for the rodents beyond weak two stage pure normal. Starting from Unova you got

Watchog: lol
Diggersby: Actually kinda cool... but only in pvp since Huge Power is bafflingly relegated to being its HA
Gumshoos: lol
Greedent: lol
Maushold: The true big exception. Reasonably strong in a unique way and has a fun concept that has made it popular with fans. That said it has taken so long to get to this point that it's impossible to know if this is a Staraptor-esque permanent shift for the archetype or a fluke
Click to expand...
Kinda gets me when Gen 3 came out bitter fans complained about Poocheyena being not much of a change for early route alongside Zigzagoon

I mean they're not wrong even if overstated at the time, but....

:psysad:

Even the "Pikaclone" despite attempts feels overdone. Pawmot line bores the fuck out of me for design

Honestly they need to get more comfortable shaking up type archetypes/roles, route bird while better is still "route bird". We got a none water Octopus Gen 8, they showed they can vary inspo for types

Give us a Draco lizard or Sugarglider, pls. Or make bird mon late game, I dunno
 
Yung Dramps said:
Ok but can we talk about how stagnant and bland the early route rodent archetype has remained? Birds and bugs have gotten so much stronger and experimented with different types (Talonflame, Vikavolt, Orbeetle, Corviknight etc.) but there has almost never been any meaningful graduation for the rodents beyond weak two stage pure normal. Starting from Unova you got

Watchog: lol
Diggersby: Actually kinda cool... but only in pvp since Huge Power is bafflingly relegated to being its HA
Gumshoos: lol
Greedent: lol
Maushold: The true big exception. Reasonably strong in a unique way and has a fun concept that has made it popular with fans. That said it has taken so long to get to this point that it's impossible to know if this is a Staraptor-esque permanent shift for the archetype or a fluke
Click to expand...
The pure normals were really hurt by the removal of field moves. In a playthrough, Cut/Strength/Headbutt for STAB, Surf for Rock-types, and then a couple utility moves(Rock Smash for steels, any number of set-up moves, a weather that benefits your team, etc) is perfectly useable in battles while also eliminating most of the "dedicated lvl 5 HM mon" slot. Especially ones with a solid ability(Linoone's Pickup is busted in-game, seriously).

But when Gen VII rolled around and that went away, there stopped being any reason to keep a bland pure-normal around. Which is too bad, since I think that made for an interesting aspect of teambuilding.
 
Sonikku A said:
Kinda gets me when Gen 3 came out bitter fans complained about Poocheyena being not much of a change for early route alongside Zigzagoon

I mean they're not wrong even if overstated at the time, but....

:psysad:

Even the "Pikaclone" despite attempts feels overdone. Pawmot line bores the fuck out of me for design

Honestly they need to get more comfortable shaking up type archetypes/roles, route bird while better is still "route bird". We got a none water Octopus Gen 8, they showed they can vary inspo for types

Give us a Draco lizard or Sugarglider, pls. Or make bird mon late game, I dunno
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I can relate to that.

Barring the original Grass/Fire/Water starters as it helps teaching with type interaction, archetypes ends up hurting more than it help, making it harder and harder for later Pokémon to stand out if the earlier ones already stood out.

Dragon Pseudo-Legendary wasn’t a reoccuring thing until Gen 3 as Gen 2 had none at all, and even then that got tiresome come the 6th where Goodra was underwhelming and Kommo-o not helping the sentiment (at least at first), and only welcomed because of how unique design-wise Dragapult is.

One thing that got overdone right at third Generation is the Doubles-promoting duo Pokémon where most pairs ended up sharing weaknesses which discourage using them instead of promoting use of them.

Plusle and Minun got lucky their Ability helped giving them an edge if allowed to shine in Doubles, but are still too frail on their own. The Gym Leader battle with Tate + Liza (dunno if it is Emerald or R/S) also make good use of Solrock and Lunatone by covering each others weaknesses via smart use of learnset. The rest just aren’t so lucky.

It’s a good thing it slow down come the fourth, where similar-yet-distinct pairs come up time to time and with different type weaknesses, like Passimian + Oranguru as well as Tatsugiri + Dondozo.
 
Bakugames said:
this bug slander is crazy!! maybe the modern bugs wont clean route but all of them are completely useable. I've ran all of them in different teams or by themselves with no major issue.
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Interestingly when I did my six-Unown challenge a while back I remember finding the Hidden Power Bug-using Unown to be one of the most reliable members of the team. Bug is actually a pretty solid offensive type in Johto as there's a lot of Grass and Psychic types used by NPCs and it hits a bunch of other common types like Ground, Water, and Normal neutrally so it's as good as anything else. It's just that there's basically no decent or widespread Bug moves until Gen IV so this isn't particularly helpful to 99% of players.

Makes me interested to try out some Bug-types in HGSS to see how they get by, IIRC the only one I've ever used in a playthrough is Paras.
 
Someone on FRLG didn't realize the new palette introduces an error

Screenshot_20241229_215504.jpg


Look at the cheek. One became white
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Interestingly when I did my six-Unown challenge a while back I remember finding the Hidden Power Bug-using Unown to be one of the most reliable members of the team. Bug is actually a pretty solid offensive type in Johto as there's a lot of Grass and Psychic types used by NPCs and it hits a bunch of other common types like Ground, Water, and Normal neutrally so it's as good as anything else. It's just that there's basically no decent or widespread Bug moves until Gen IV so this isn't particularly helpful to 99% of players.

Makes me interested to try out some Bug-types in HGSS to see how they get by, IIRC the only one I've ever used in a playthrough is Paras.
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It feels like cheating to use them as examples but Hera and Technician Scyther clear. Despite leaning more on their other typing during the game lol.

I will say Hera struggled a little bit with dark types bc if he didn’t outspeed Houndoom he was KOed… and in the rematch there were other problems. That said, he never missed a Megahorn on Spiritomb :)

Scyther did well overall but couldn’t sweep the fighting until the rematches when he got SD and could set up on them.

As a whole I agree. Bug’s an underrated type because there aren’t that many good fire types in earlier gens. They aren’t the best lead mons tho bc flying and stone moves are semi prevalent. Although Scyther did fine as a lead.
 
BriarRose said:
We all know that there are some big things that make us hate Nintendo. Un-realeased pokemon abilities for example. (Will Water Absorb Suicune ever be legal?) Or the fact that some countries never get the great Japanese events.

But what about the little things? Things that are almost not worth complaining about but still annoy you to hell and back? This is the place to rant about them discuss them in an educated manner.


To get you guys and gals started, here is a list of a list of my top 3 little annoying things in X and Y:

1. Male pokemon do not pass down their pokeball. Even with Ditto.
  • You want that Tyrogue/Rufflet/ any other 100% male in a pretty ball? Not in good old France Kalos. You'll have to learn to RNG/bug someone enough to RNG for you. So sorry, folks who wanted to use matching ball balls in the VGC this year. Forced ugly poke ball for you all.

2. Shiny-locked Yveltal/Xerneas ALL the damn Kalos legends

  • This was just mean. Bad enough that Black/White 1/2 made it impossible to RNG/soft reset for a shiny Reshiram/Zekrom/Meloetta/Keldeo but as of Gen 6 Nintendo decided that fans don't deserve to have ANY shiny pentagon legends without events. But enjoy looking at the amazing shiny Zygarde hacked by PowerSaves users...

3. Withdraw/Deposit is STILL above Organise Boxes in the PC options
  • Be honest, when was the last you willingly wanted to Withdraw a pokemon? For me this was in Crystal. Yup, Gen 2, when it forced you to save every time you wanted to change box/move pokemon between boxes. And yet, as of Gen 6, I am still forced to waste 2 seconds scroll down to Organise Boxes.
  • Read the ORAS section



NEW MINI-HATES: ORAS EDITION (the trumpets are here)

1. Shiny legend locks STILL exist

  • According to Game Freak, I can waste my time trying to get a shiny Suicune but not a sparkly Deoxys. All the mons that I can easily RNG from past gens? Shiny-able. A pokemon that can only be shiny from a long dead 3rd Gen ticket distribution? Have a shiny lock.
  • I guess I should also mention that the weather trio got the crap end of the shiny deal too...
2. The cutscenes.... just make them end

  • So, you want a flawless pentagon Lati@s? Didn't get the Eon Ticket (A.K.A: win the lottery)? Then welcome to the world of Steven talking. And him talking some more. Ooooh, now would be a great time to give you the Mega Ring.
  • And sure, throw in a Team AquaMagma battle in there too.
  • Oh, you actually wanted to finish the game? Well, sorry buddy. You can't continue until after you have an eon to call your own. No matter how much the IVs suck.
3. Yay for Organise Boxes being on top.... not.

  • You have to get all the way to Fallarbor to to even get this option. And Lanette's house is really easy to just skip- especially if you were like me and said: 'nah, screw the stupid doll'
  • I've spent 12 plus years playing pokemon and guess what, I got used to scrolling down to Organise Boxes. It was super annoying but it became a reflex.
  • So even now, I'm wasting precious seconds scrolling down... even when I don't need to.



So, what what little things make you want to go:

pika-pwned.gif



(Yes, it annoys me how much Pikachu is loved/hyped)

(Oh, and I'm sorry if this thread is against the rules/has already been done before. I did check, honest...)
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No like, too annoying
 
Sonikku A said:
Yeah, it's partially why Gen 4 ons powercreep hit harder: 1-3 had a loooot of duds

Honestly that said, gets me how Bugs still are mostly shit playthrough wise. Gen 5 was an exception, same for Ribombee's speed/support and Lokix' tinted lens. But despite being objectively better than 1-4's sub 400-500 bst bugs, mid to late game mons later gens crushes it, same for the lack of resists. And no, the Ultrabeasts don't count, they're jacked on purpose and late game. Paradoxes are similar

Vivillon is mid still mad it stole Arbok's gimmick, Vikavolt and Arquanid despite attacking stats and type is slower than molasses, Orbeetle despite Gmax is suffering from lack of resists, Frosmoth is too slow and Quad 4x weak to fire, Spidops has literal Gen 1-4 bug tier stats wtf, and Rabsca despite Revival Blessing is way too slow again, with Pawmot taking the niche for revives

Centiscorch meanwhile is just weirdly overlooked, and Kleavor is in an awkward position of being from LA AND Scizor outclassing it

Honestly the fact Gen 6 dev was >< close to making Bug weak to Fairy show's GF's priority for the type to be attrocious
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I hard disagree on the notion that post Sinnoh bugs are still trash in playthroughs.
Vikavolt and Araq are fiiiine! Who cares if they're too slow? Not like they cannot take a hit!
Not only that, level up movesets have( mostly )improved since even Gen 4. Hgss heracross for example gets fighting moves. Not enough to get bug moves before post-game but at least it can trash Whitney and the rest of the game with its crazy stats.
Lokix is lokix (good)
And spidops is the exception to the good bug type gang
Don't write off these bugs because they cannot fully rout routes without a scratch. They're way better off off early gen bugs who had to wish upon a star to get bug stab, and wish on another Star for a bug stab which can do damage, and another star to have enough attack to damage the opponent with said bug stab.
 
nitchenkightmares said:
Don't write off these bugs because they cannot fully rout routes without a scratch. They're way better off off early gen bugs who had to wish upon a star to get bug stab, and wish on another Star for a bug stab which can do damage, and another star to have enough attack to damage the opponent with said bug stab.
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don't worry this guy got you covered
:jirachi:
 
Screenshot_20241230_155909_Chrome.jpg

And the worst moveset in pokemon history goes to....
This may actually be worse than gen 1 movepools.
I hope you like status moves, because that's all you're fucking getting!
Let's run them down, shall we?
Teleport: does nothing in trainer battles
Lucky chant: blocks critical hits--trash
Miracle eye: you have no Psychic moves so even worse than worthless
Me first: bruh
Confuse ray: kinda useful, but the johto trainers are so weak you don't need to confuse them
Tailwind: You're already faster than like 75% of the johto league
Wish: healing move, just use roost bro
Psycho shift: you get the idea: trash.
------------------------
How could they do this to my favorite gen 2 pokemon??
 
nitchenkightmares said:
View attachment 700127
And the worst moveset in pokemon history goes to....
This may actually be worse than gen 1 movepools.
I hope you like status moves, because that's all you're fucking getting!
Let's run them down, shall we?
Teleport: does nothing in trainer battles
Lucky chant: blocks critical hits--trash
Miracle eye: you have no Psychic moves so even worse than worthless
Me first: bruh
Confuse ray: kinda useful, but the johto trainers are so weak you don't need to confuse them
Tailwind: You're already faster than like 75% of the johto league
Wish: healing move, just use roost bro
Psycho shift: you get the idea: trash.
------------------------
How could they do this to my favorite gen 2 pokemon??
Click to expand...
Oh man, the Natu line in HGSS is so damn tragic. As a kid I remember going to the Ruins of Alph, capturing one thinking it'd be fun to use because it came from a unique area, and being so damn disappointed that the best thing Natu/Xatu could do is spam the Fly HM for pretty much the entire game. With the Psychic TM being post-game only, these birds are genuinely stuck without their more useful STAB move for a huge portion of the game (one that comes off their higher attacking stat, too) so they end up being worse than other Flying-types, even crap like Fearow. This is a problem for the line all the way until ORAS, where they finally got some much-needed love via simply getting their better moves earlier. Xatu gets Air Slash (HUGE!) from evolving and Psychic at 35 in those games, which is more than enough to make it worth using as your Psychic and Flying-type. If only they had that luxury in their home generation :psycry:
 
Shiftry line literally having a dogshit movepool all the way till Gen 8:
:pikuh:

Bear in mind, I said Route bugs are still outclassed generally later Gens, not "they suck ass completely". The archetype is still worse generally than other equally outdated ones, but nowhere as bad as Gen 1-4

But the more I look at it, the more the archetypes are rigid precise cuz

-They want a 3 line mon early game, 2 line mid game, 1 solo late game

Bugs are animals with distibct metamorphosis, so they slap em in early route for design to rep evolving. Same for the 3 stage bird

The other issue is the habitats for early route mostly is the same all Gens with it being a grassland. So rodents, common birds, and bugs are expected

GF still seems to not want to deviate habitat or archetypes, so sadly despite being way better now than Gen 1-4, they'll likely remain as slightly underpowered

...unless they, y'know, ignore that and change mid or late game lines to have bug. Fuck it, Bug Dragon wen?
 
nitchenkightmares said:
View attachment 700127
And the worst moveset in pokemon history goes to....
This may actually be worse than gen 1 movepools.
I hope you like status moves, because that's all you're fucking getting!
Let's run them down, shall we?
Teleport: does nothing in trainer battles
Lucky chant: blocks critical hits--trash
Miracle eye: you have no Psychic moves so even worse than worthless
Me first: bruh
Confuse ray: kinda useful, but the johto trainers are so weak you don't need to confuse them
Tailwind: You're already faster than like 75% of the johto league
Wish: healing move, just use roost bro
Psycho shift: you get the idea: trash.
------------------------
How could they do this to my favorite gen 2 pokemon??
Click to expand...
Some of these status moves actually have niches in competitive though...
Wish and Psycho Shift (Tailwind in Doubles).
Teleport is dogwater before Sword/Shield.
 
MoonlightRose said:
I'm pretty sure I've complained about this before but the discussion over in the unpopular opinions thread has gotten me annoyed at it again so - the XY rivals. You have everything you need for a good rival, one that can act as a sort of contrast to Lysandre, so why tf were they split up into 4 characters with no personality of their own.
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Honestly I hesitate to even consider Tierno & Trevor rivals. They're just characters who happen to be around; Tierno I don't think even gets an 'arc' which at least Trevor can say he does since he -completely inexplicably, really- gets that section in snowbelle and then you have that marathon fight on the bridge.

T&T really just seem like, well, NPC friends you are traveling with that you happen to fight occasionally. Shauna at least exudes more personality, gets the other starter and hey no big surprise she gets to be present at the climax and lingers in people's memories longer even though you only fight her twice. I feel like Calem/Serena do have a bit of an arc and personality despite all the extras around but unfortunately for them their personality trait is "understated & reserved straight man dealing with not being the best" so, you know. Doesn't make the best impression.
 
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