Lilligant

Murkglow said:
It really seems to me that Butterfly Dance is her claim to fame and without useing it she ends up a slightly more offensive but a fair bit less bulky Venasaur (and without Vena's Poison Type).
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Well the Hidden Power type is still variable but Fire or Ice would be ideal as it does cover one way or another one some of her resists - bugs, flying, and grass - though the trade of is that it certainly won't handle other bulkier ones that may resist her - dragons or steel (both of which are quite common and threats) - when you pick one over the other.

I do agree Butterfly Dance is her claim to fame, even with her support moves I don't necessarily see her outdoing the job of Meganium as a cleric nor would she be a bulky leech seeder. Add to that the consideration of Erufuun (the grass sheep) who thanks to his skill or speed can run a support - sans sleep powder & clerical abilities - potentially better.

While I am somewhat hesitant about giving her Solar Beam + Butterfly dance in a sunny day team since sunny day already acts as a support in the first place by allowing a powerful STAB move to be fired off instantly along with a speed boost if you opt for Chlorophyll. She'd have to use one extra turn so as to pull off butterfly dance which would already boost her already doubled speed just so she could gain a +1 in her SpA which could be dangerous as the enemy could switch out to counteract her during that time - like bringing in Politoed or something with Cloud Nine or worse just burn her off with a fire attack.
 
Personally what I would do is send it out on something it can easily defeat. The opponent will then switch to another pokemon that hopefully will get hit by sleep powder. Then I proceed to giga drain or dream eat it depending on it's type. Sounds like it could work!
 
Machi said:
While I am somewhat hesitant about giving her Solar Beam + Butterfly dance in a sunny day team since sunny day already acts as a support in the first place by allowing a powerful STAB move to be fired off instantly along with a speed boost if you opt for Chlorophyll.
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My worry with Solar Beam is the large risk of losing sun with it. I'd probably run her with Giga Drain even on a Sunny day team just because of that given all the weather running around (I mean Poli will be at least as popular as Ninetails).
Petal Dance is pretty risky as well what with being locked into a grass move for a couple turns. I suppose though it's a no risk no reward situation but still...

I think my standard all purpose set (Sunny Day or not) will be:

Doreida @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid/Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Chlorophyll
- Butterfly Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

If I'm using Sunny Day then awesome, I have a poke built for it, if not then I lose little to nothing really and gain the chance of benefiting from my opponent's Sunny Day should they use it.
 
Wouldn't Hidden Power Ground be better ? With Giga Drain and HP Fire it would be stopped hard by Shandera and Heatran..
 
in OU (though honestly we can't talk tiers yet) hp ground would be usable alongside something like butterfly dance / giga drain / sleep powder as it hits steels and fires (and poisons), though admittedly is walled by flying and opposing grass types. and bugs. and gengar. mostly it would only be good for heatran so never mind actually.

Ps I love love love love love love it oh my gosh

EDIT: Ninja'd. lol
 
I like her, but I really wish that she learned more special attacks =(

If you're using Butterfly Dance and Sleep Powder together, then your moveset is going to be resisted by a large number of things. This would probably happen anyway when you only use 2 attacks, but it still seems like she could have used more options.
 
Arikado said:
Wouldn't Hidden Power Ground be better ? With Giga Drain and HP Fire it would be stopped hard by Shandera and Heatran..
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But then it gets walled by Bug, Grass, and Flying types (and I'm expecting she won't have to deal with Heatran/Shandera as I'm not expecting her to be in the same tier).

Still yeah they wall her but there is going to be something walling her in every set.
 
Such a cool design (not as cute as Bellossom but still). Shame about its movepool though.

I agree with HP Ground being more useful in the higher tiers.
 
Murkglow said:
But then it gets walled by Grass and Flying types (and I'm expecting she won't have to deal with Heatran/Shandera). Still yeah they wall her but there is going to be something walling her in every set.
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As you've said she'll be walled one way or another no matter which HP type she picks only that Ice and Fire cover her most common resists:

*neutral refers to those grass had no problem hitting as they didn't resist.

Ice covers~
Bug (resists grass)/Grass (resists grass)/Flying (resists grass)/Dragon (resists grass)/Ground (never had a problem with this)

Resisted by~
Fire/Ice/Water/Steel

Fire covers~
Grass (resists grass)/Ice (Neutral)/Bug (resists grass)/Steel (resists grass)
*However it is boosted by Sunny Day

Resisted by~
Dragon/Fire/Rock/Water

Ground covers~
Fire (resisted Grass)/Electric (hits for neutral)/Poison (resisted grass)/Rock (had no problem here with grass)/Steel (resists grass)

Resisted by~
Bug/Flying(Immune)/Grass

The only thing about ground compared to fire and ice is that she'll have three (bug/flying/grass) types that resist her coverage well instead of two (fire/steel or dragon/fire).

They all have good coverage but she will undoubtedly have her gaps in offense eitherway as Murkglow has said she is very easy to wall one way or another - she just doesn't have that much coverage to be a great sweeper. Sleep powder buys her time for one or if she's lucky two butterfly dances though.
 
Maybe I was too quick to disagree on Ground. Thinking more on it, if you get SR down then Flying is already in trouble, Bug was rather rare in UU (especially Bug that's not flying/poison), and the most common Grass was Venasaur (who takes neutral from ground). Of course there is still Tangrowth and Sceptile (plus the mirror) and whatever new pokes enter the game but perhaps Ground would be a good choice in UU too... I'm unsure.

Edit: Then again Fire doesn't like SR either and the only Dragon currently in UU is a flying one (though there are a fair number of dragons entering with gen 5 so maybe one will hit UU).
 
you know, why not take advantage of dream eater? use umbreon as a mean look passer, trap something not threatening (most likely a fighting type), sleep, butterfly up and sweep. even if it wakes up, if you're at +6 spa, even resisted attacks will hurt. and then you can run sleep powder/giga drain/dream eater/hp of your choice...fire or ground most likely. just a thought....
 
I've added HP Ground to the first post and removed the Leech Seed set. Narrowing down the Hidden Power really depends on the tier she finds herself in and what is popular in that tier, it's hard to pin it down at this point.
 
I'm still thinking there should be a set capable of exploiting her unconfused petal dance since it has such a great attacking power, at par with Solar Beam as it also received a boost in attack power from 90 to 120. Even better she has a good chance to set up - can easily enter due to resisting Stealth Rock - by putting the opponent to sleep so one way or another if they opt to switch out or hold out they'd allow at least one butterfly dance to occur, boosted with Life Orb, that will hurt.

Though I guess we still need to know whether or not hitting a non-effective would cancel out the move - time to ask in the research thread~
 
Machi said:
I'm still thinking there should be a set capable of exploiting her unconfused petal dance since it has such a great attacking power, at par with Solar Beam as it also received a boost in attack power from 90 to 120. Even better she has a good chance to set up - can easily enter due to resisting Stealth Rock - by putting the opponent to sleep so one way or another if they opt to switch out or hold out they'd allow at least one butterfly dance to occur, boosted with Life Orb, that will hurt.

Though I guess we still need to know whether or not hitting a non-effective would cancel out the move - time to ask in the research thread~
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I believe it was confirmed that Petal Dance and its clones no longer Confuse if the last hit has no effect on the target, that's all.

Petal Dance is powerful but Grass is just too bad offensively for it to be taken advantage of. It's free setup for Steels and Dragons, which is a huge disadvantage. Even in the lower tiers things like Venusaur have no problem switching into it and setting up.
 
If you run HP Ground, you're screwed by Sazando as well. I think Sleep Powder covers everything Hidden Power can't since you'll be putting one Pokemon out of commission whether it's a Heatran or fliers or whatever. My opinion is that with Drought, it's not like you are running on a timer - with 8 turns to deal as much damage as possible. So you can afford to put something to sleep, switch to another sun sweeper and continue your strategy, something which would have wasted a few sun turns last generation.
 
One way or another Doreida will be screwed by whichever HP she opts, she can't cover em all. Also you can put something to sleep or not (including whether its a threat or not) isn't so much an issue but whether the opponent will be willing to hold out/stay and simply not counteract the sunny day (either through drizzle or cloud nine).

Oh and apparently the Outrage/Petal Dance/Thrash cancellation only occurs when you can't hit the target or it is absorbed (e.g. herbivore).
 
hmm... In my opinion Doreida has some interesting tools to work with... Her Attacking movepool is extremely limited. Hopefully she gets some good move tutor moves come the 3rd version. Eart power would be great! but then you'll have to choose wisely on what moves you want... She realyl sticks out Aesthetically and statistically. I plan to use her on my Sun team depending on which tiers she falls under. Butterfly dance and sleep powder are great.
 
Teeter Dance will also do extremely well in Triple Battles, allowing Doreida to use Butterfly Dance to set up and whatever pokemon Doreida can't hit, its two partners will be there to back it up.

So I can definitely see Doreida taking the center position in triple battles.

And also, Doreida in Triples can also take advantage of the sunlight much easier, because in singles you have to switch out and waste a turn of sunlight. But with Ninetales I suppose that fixes it up some more. Even so, in triples, Doreida will be the pokemon to beat. (That is, if anyone else other than me is interested in playing triples competitively.)
 
hmm I forgot teeter dance did that... She has quite a lot of good moves in her arsenal. Just pretty bad Offensive moves. It really makes me disappointed how GF makes Dragons have good stats and movepool yet they screw up Doreida's offense. Makes me rage a bit.
 
After reading up about the unassuming grass type, i cam up with this set.

128 Sp. Atk/128Hp/252Spd Own Tempo
@Leftovers/Salac Berry/Rose Incense
-Teeter Dance
-Sleep powder/Stun Spore
-Butterfly Dance
-Petal Dance

Teeter dance seems actually useful here as a 100% effective confusion with no draw backs whatsoever. Sleep Powder if you want to force a switch or take an opponent out of the game. Stun Spore if you wish to abuse hax rates and completely shut your opponent down. Between your two moves, you should buy yourself enough time to get one or two butterfly dances off and proceed to sweep with Petal Dance.

Doreida's base 90 speed gives it enough to outspeed base 85 and lower threats like Wargle or the like off the bat and confuse them or the like. The set basically allows doreida to annoy the opponent and wear them down with stab Petal dances and confusion rates.
 
Hmm.. could Hidden Power Rock work well with Doreida ?
I mean it covers Fire and Flying (which you would see often switching to Doreida) however it doesn't hurt Heatran or any other Steel pokemon well ...

And I think that Hidden Power Ground would be the best option for Doreida .
Hits Steel and Fire .
Flying pokemon don't really have much bulk maybe except Skarmory all those really bulky flyers ?...
 
What it runs will ultimately be based on what your team needs and what is common in it's environment, so I think Doreida's gonna have to wait to really decide what move it wants.
 
when i saw her movepool i felt sorry for her she only learns grass attacks i mean why give butterfly dance to a pokemon who only learns grass attacks? and no baton pass either? gf just loves doing this to pokemons
 
Has anyone bothered to do Calcs on Things like Gengar with Petal Dance? I want to see how much it does after a Butterfly Dance to things that resist it, it may do a lot more damage than you think.
 
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