I knew having that quote in my signature would pay off someday
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- Thread starter dhelmise
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so my mother has sent me off on a little bit of a gay quest
figure out on what it truly means to be a woman and I earn her complete support (not that she doesn't already; she just can't fully commit because i'm a little out-of-the-know and whatnot.)
and admittedly i might need help with that i have zero idea on where to start
figure out on what it truly means to be a woman and I earn her complete support (not that she doesn't already; she just can't fully commit because i'm a little out-of-the-know and whatnot.)
and admittedly i might need help with that i have zero idea on where to start
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Hi there, I have some unresolved coming out of the closet, so that ends today, because I have an important announcement
it was a ordinary day in the middle of March, except for some reason the temperature decided that it didn't want to warm up, and ended up creating one of the most elongated winters in my memory, I was just walking home after getting out of school, and I had an interesting thought pop up into my head, what is my gender expression, now for a while, I just accepted the fact that I'm Male due to that being the gender I was assigned at birth, but on this day, it was peculiar, since this one made me truly question what my gender is, I have almost no connection to masculinity due to the fact that I love not conforming, and also, to me, caring about how masculine I am is just straight up pointless, and also my gender played almost no role for a great amount of my life, as I didn't think of myself as a dude, I just thought of myself, as Joey, aka myself, and nothing else, I realized that I feel much more interested in my gender expression now than I did back then, in other words, I realized right then and there that I'm Non-Binary
it was a ordinary day in the middle of March, except for some reason the temperature decided that it didn't want to warm up, and ended up creating one of the most elongated winters in my memory, I was just walking home after getting out of school, and I had an interesting thought pop up into my head, what is my gender expression, now for a while, I just accepted the fact that I'm Male due to that being the gender I was assigned at birth, but on this day, it was peculiar, since this one made me truly question what my gender is, I have almost no connection to masculinity due to the fact that I love not conforming, and also, to me, caring about how masculine I am is just straight up pointless, and also my gender played almost no role for a great amount of my life, as I didn't think of myself as a dude, I just thought of myself, as Joey, aka myself, and nothing else, I realized that I feel much more interested in my gender expression now than I did back then, in other words, I realized right then and there that I'm Non-Binary
2 questions
im just aro, do i count
what are our opinions on pansexuals. i kinda figured they would be a part of the acronym by now
im just aro, do i count
what are our opinions on pansexuals. i kinda figured they would be a part of the acronym by now
also, i figured i might as well ask something thats been bothering me for a while. what are the deal with pronouns. dont get me wrong, i get the dysphoria thing, but i dont know why people are fixed on pronouns. this is a genuine question, and i am not projecting any hate towards any individual, but i dont even get why pronouns exist in the first place, let alone why people care about them. i really really really dont want anyone to think this is hate. i dont think anyone has the right to tell you how you should present yourself, but i just want to understand this better
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They exist as a function of language so that you don't need to say people's names all the time - "I met John at John's house and John told me that John would be picking up John's daughter from school today" just sounds awkward. Their existence being gendered (he/she/they most commonly) means that people are going to want to others to use the pronouns that match the gender they identify with. Choosing what pronouns you like is not really all that different from picking a username, it's just a way of saying that I want people to call me X. Don't overthink it too hard.
thx, but not overthinking things is something i am incapable of.
happy pride, haven’t posted or even lurked here in a very long time, just wanted to come and say that smogon was really helpful for me when coming to terms with my sexuality. there were quite a few people who were very open about their queerness and it helped me feel less alone. More than 5 years later, I’m open about my queerness, I have so many wonderful queer friends, and I’m out to basically everyone who knows me. This is kinda odd but I remember that in the RU discord, someone asked me genuinely if I was gay and I responded in the affirmative for the first time, and that felt meaningful. I was just reflecting and thought I would post, hopefully it resonates with someone.
hope everyone is well!
hope everyone is well!
I agree that should it come down to it, it is fine to defend yourself, but I also think that, when meeting with someone who is trans/homophobic, the first step should always be to try to talk and debate with these people. I understand that it is uncomfortable to debate with someone who ignores/is actively trying to put up barriers that separate you from your gender/sexual identity, but if we (referring to the LGBTQ+ community as a whole) do not at least attempt to change these peoples minds, who will? Whether we like it or not, bigots, transphobes, homophobes, etc. do have a vote in who creates policy and laws. In order to change these laws to become more just and favorable to the LGBTQ+ community, I would argue that we should start at the source - the people who are voting for politicians like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Donald Trump.
Obviously, we cannot change everyone's mind. Some people will choose to be bigots until the bitter end, which is unfortunate. However, I think that we must start a dialogue with the opposition in hopes that some of them will change their minds. I use this example a lot, but I have an aunt that used to be quite homophobic. After several years of arguing about these issues with her, she finally came around and is now a staunch supporter of LGBTQ+ rights. She even attended the pride parade! This is just one of presumably many examples of people changing their views. I think to simply disregard them as idiots are doing both them and our community a disservice.
It is wrong to say that "people who follow a certain political belief are x". Not all Republicans are fascists. Sure, some are, but that doesn't mean that all are. Saying that "Republicans are fascists" is the exact same thing as saying "Democrats sleep on the right side of a bed". Sure, some do, but not all of them do and I think that you're casting too broad of a generalization on such a diverse group of people.
I look forward to your response and happy Pride month everybody :D
Absolutely the fuck not, that legitimizes the idea that our identity and existence are up for debate. People can educate if they want, but nobody is obligated to.
To be blunt, I advocate much more radical action than voting and begging for rights.
No it's not.
If 9 people are at a table and a Nazi sits down, and those 9 people stay, you have 10 Nazis. We do not debate the Nazi. We do not plead for him to recognize our humanity. The Republican Party harbors far more than enough fascists that I will generalize them all I want. A lot of bad apples spoil the bunch.
I am not going to have a debate over this. I have far better things to do than argue about whether the inhumanity of those who want me dead is bad enough to label them a certain way.
Thanks for the prompt response
You would then have 9 people and 1 Nazi. That’s not to say that you definitely don’t have 10 Nazi’s - the beliefs of the 9 people are unknown. However, to say that there are 10 Nazi’s without knowing the beliefs of the 9 people is incorrect.
If it isn’t wrong, then I do ask that you explain to me your thought process in coming to this conclusion (preferably in DMs via Discord, as it doesn’t have much to do with this thread).
I agree that nobody is obligated to, but I would argue that the best way to stop a hateful ideology from spreading is to convince those who support for ideology to change their minds about it.
What is this radical action that you advocate for? The first thing that comes to my mind is a much more violent approach, which I should hope is not the case for obvious reasons.
It absolutely is, or else saying things such as “All Muslims/Christians/Jewish people are greedy” and “Everyone from New York City is loaded” would be correct, which is it very much isn’t. You cannot paint a group of people with the same brush, as people may agree on one topic but behave vastly differently, have different socioeconomic statuses, and more.
That’s… not how math works
You would then have 9 people and 1 Nazi. That’s not to say that you definitely don’t have 10 Nazi’s - the beliefs of the 9 people are unknown. However, to say that there are 10 Nazi’s without knowing the beliefs of the 9 people is incorrect.
I disagree with this too. I think that generalizing groups of people can be dangerous. For example, saying that all people of a certain religion are theives is obviously very wrong. However, if I understand your argument correctly, if a certain number of them are theives, then all of them are theives. This is wrong, as there are likely going to be a large percentage of people belonging to this religion that are not theives. To brand everyone that follows this belief system as a thief just because they believe in a different religion is wrong.
If it isn’t wrong, then I do ask that you explain to me your thought process in coming to this conclusion (preferably in DMs via Discord, as it doesn’t have much to do with this thread).
i, too, think that calling the fascist party fascists is the same as doing antisemitic tropes.
A certain type of outrage against political generalization, which extends beyond this thread, is interesting to me.
When it's claimed unfair to generalize Republicans as X... whose honor is being defended? Who is the Republican who thinks "Although I actively identify with this group, I don't personally support their broad LGBT+ demonization, nonwhite demonization, active endorsement of systemic racism, climate change denial, reproductive freedom opposition, rampant political corruption and criminality, threats of war against any non-white country that may possibly be quasi-slighting the US, etc...?"not listed in order of importance or complete, of course. What exactly about the Republican party, then, is so great for this person to actively identify alongside white nationalists and fascists? What grand Republican strength makes them justify excusing such enormous horribleness?
At some point, it's less interesting and important to ask "Does this mysterious 'actively and defensibly Republican' individual exist?" If they've thrown their hand in with this lot, I'm not torn up about a not-quite-seamless generalization maybe bothering them a little bit.
I'm a person who tries to be fairly thoughtful with their language. I almost (as in many things, I'm not quite perfect!) completely cut out 'insane' as an adjective from my vocabulary when I realized how it normalizes negative and wrong perceptions of mental illness. That is the sort of angle a vast majority of people, in my experience, do not give two fucks about. I don't personally say things like "Republicans are fascists" myself, for various personal reasons that aren't related to the factual accuracy of that claim.
And yet... even lil sensitive me can't muster up the outrage when people say things like "Republicans are fascists." Why do other people have outrage? I'm a bit short on time, but this is a question worth investigating for some angle. I'm sure some people outraged as this generalization are fine with other hostile ones, like "white people can't dance" or anything involving the pejorative "Karen". Perhaps Republicans being close enough to acceptable, within range of civil debate and reason, is important for people to believe. Maybe they have Republican sympathies, or Republican family, or a naivete regarding humanity at large. Maybe I'm wholly off-base, though, just felt wrong opening up the question and not even attempting dlscussion in my limited time lol
When it's claimed unfair to generalize Republicans as X... whose honor is being defended? Who is the Republican who thinks "Although I actively identify with this group, I don't personally support their broad LGBT+ demonization, nonwhite demonization, active endorsement of systemic racism, climate change denial, reproductive freedom opposition, rampant political corruption and criminality, threats of war against any non-white country that may possibly be quasi-slighting the US, etc...?"not listed in order of importance or complete, of course. What exactly about the Republican party, then, is so great for this person to actively identify alongside white nationalists and fascists? What grand Republican strength makes them justify excusing such enormous horribleness?
At some point, it's less interesting and important to ask "Does this mysterious 'actively and defensibly Republican' individual exist?" If they've thrown their hand in with this lot, I'm not torn up about a not-quite-seamless generalization maybe bothering them a little bit.
I'm a person who tries to be fairly thoughtful with their language. I almost (as in many things, I'm not quite perfect!) completely cut out 'insane' as an adjective from my vocabulary when I realized how it normalizes negative and wrong perceptions of mental illness. That is the sort of angle a vast majority of people, in my experience, do not give two fucks about. I don't personally say things like "Republicans are fascists" myself, for various personal reasons that aren't related to the factual accuracy of that claim.
And yet... even lil sensitive me can't muster up the outrage when people say things like "Republicans are fascists." Why do other people have outrage? I'm a bit short on time, but this is a question worth investigating for some angle. I'm sure some people outraged as this generalization are fine with other hostile ones, like "white people can't dance" or anything involving the pejorative "Karen". Perhaps Republicans being close enough to acceptable, within range of civil debate and reason, is important for people to believe. Maybe they have Republican sympathies, or Republican family, or a naivete regarding humanity at large. Maybe I'm wholly off-base, though, just felt wrong opening up the question and not even attempting dlscussion in my limited time lol
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I also wonder why so many people will jump to defend the worst people imaginable before they defend the oppressed. The people who say shit like "not all Republicans" invariably defend them much harder (when oppressed people criticize them) than they "debate" their bigoted family and friends when they say fucked up things.
Not got more to add past what Sab and Adeleine have said, but my advice for Aqua Jet right now would be to stop planning another post and think for a second about why almost all the queer people here disagree with you so strongly. Would save you a lot of dunking
I think what you will eventually learn Aqua Jet is that one of the issues that queer communities (especially radical queer communities) have with centrists or people who play "devil's advocate" when it comes to advocacy regarding human rights is that sure, you may be TECHNICALLY correct that "not all Republicans are Nazis" however:
The reason you're getting so much pushback from people here is because we all know where this type of debate goes. Playing technicalities misses the forest for the treets; when people say "all Republicans are Fascists" they mean that anyone who is politically aware of what the Republican party is doing and actively chooses to support them is endorsing all of their most radical views even if they do not agree with all of them. It's a matter of consequence, which is what is most important when it comes to electoral politics. This is the same with the analogy of "if 9 are sitting at a table and 1 Nazi sits down blah blah" because the others at the table, if they choose to remain, are saying that it is okay for a Nazi to be within their group. When less radical Republicans sit with MTG and say that her views are okay, that it is fine for someone who associates with actual Nazi Nick Fuentes to be one of them, they are saying that Nazism is okay. I know that they may not "technically" be Nazis, but it is the consequences of this association that matter.
This devil's advocate technicality song and dance serves nothing but to a) feel superior to others and b) play defense for the right who use these same arguments to avoid facing consequences for their actions, and it's a lesson that I hope you learn soon.
- In institutional politics, conservative centrists oftentimes fail to rebuke their far more radical colleagues, and,
- Conservative centrists will often act as if they are not radical but will then vote the same as those who are radical
The reason you're getting so much pushback from people here is because we all know where this type of debate goes. Playing technicalities misses the forest for the treets; when people say "all Republicans are Fascists" they mean that anyone who is politically aware of what the Republican party is doing and actively chooses to support them is endorsing all of their most radical views even if they do not agree with all of them. It's a matter of consequence, which is what is most important when it comes to electoral politics. This is the same with the analogy of "if 9 are sitting at a table and 1 Nazi sits down blah blah" because the others at the table, if they choose to remain, are saying that it is okay for a Nazi to be within their group. When less radical Republicans sit with MTG and say that her views are okay, that it is fine for someone who associates with actual Nazi Nick Fuentes to be one of them, they are saying that Nazism is okay. I know that they may not "technically" be Nazis, but it is the consequences of this association that matter.
This devil's advocate technicality song and dance serves nothing but to a) feel superior to others and b) play defense for the right who use these same arguments to avoid facing consequences for their actions, and it's a lesson that I hope you learn soon.
In unrelated news, yesterday I tried telling my parents over the phone “hey i’m gonna wear nail polish next time i see you” cause they’d been less antagonistic than usual. It didn’t go over well and I got accused of “rocking the boat.” I ended up saying “if that’s too much you’d hate how I look right now” and hanging up. I’d done myself up nice - painted nails, femme clothes, a crop top, spent like 4 hours on my hair, I was looking amazing… and they would have disowned me if they saw that. Fucking sucks, but I never expected to keep my family when I did this anyway.
Happy pride. I look good, I feel good, and things are coming up me, so fuck them and all the other people who decided to make an issue of me being myself. I’ve never felt more confident in myself, my decisions, or my looks than I do now, and nobody will shame me out of it. I wish the same for you all, wherever you are in your own journey.
Happy pride. I look good, I feel good, and things are coming up me, so fuck them and all the other people who decided to make an issue of me being myself. I’ve never felt more confident in myself, my decisions, or my looks than I do now, and nobody will shame me out of it. I wish the same for you all, wherever you are in your own journey.
I just wanted to step in here to say as a straight guy I have an incredible amount of respect for how well you articulated your response to a lot of people who (in my opinion) are arguing in fairly poor faith or without a ton of perspective in a thread meant to uplift the queer community. Adeleine
Interacting with people who argue in this fashion happens to me a lot where I live, it really irks me in a way where it feels hard to put up a defense without coming off as irrational or upset. I'm gonna use a lot of what you've said in your last two posts, hopefully to be able to respond in better ways.
Interacting with people who argue in this fashion happens to me a lot where I live, it really irks me in a way where it feels hard to put up a defense without coming off as irrational or upset. I'm gonna use a lot of what you've said in your last two posts, hopefully to be able to respond in better ways.
I just wanna say i really do not care for people lecturing us about non-violence or compassion to people who inflict violence on us daily. Violence is more than queer-bashing, it’s the entire fucking system we live in. I’ve been trying not to be too inflamed about this but holy shit shut up already, ESPECIALLY if you aren’t queer yourself, and even if you are, maybe consider that you’re clearly coming from a more privileged position than some of us. Your thing about death rate reeks of the privilege of someone who hasn’t ever had to worry about getting basic healthcare and doesn’t understand how these stats are counted - i can assure you, we are being killed, and it doesn’t always look like a Nazi with a knife or a gun. It’s medical neglect, poverty, denial from jobs and services because we “look trans,” it’s the daily stress that wears down our bodies. The life expectancy for nonwhite trans women like me is 35. Shut up and stop acting like you have the barest understanding of my struggle from googling a couple numbers.
Regarding violence: during Stonewall and the following riots, a lot of white cis gay men complained that the rest of us - lesbians, trans people, nonwhite queer people - were being too loud, too violent, wanted change “too fast,” and in the process were actually damaging our cause and stopping us (really, just the white cis gay men) from getting assimilated and accepted. Similar things happened to every civil rights movement; MLK famously wrote a whole thing about the “white moderate.” That’s what’s happening here, and all i can say is: fuck that. Stonewall was a riot and it worked. When the enemy is violent, to be violent back is self-defense, not something to condemn. We have tried to argue for our rights, protest peacefully, and every other stupid pointless exercise that the moderates and liberals tell us is the actual way for progress, and the result is we get beaten, arrested, and killed. We have given them a chance to show us humanity and they have doubled down. So please, shut up. You are not original. You are not special, you are not showing any sort of intelligence here. You are the latest repetition of a cowardly, lukewarm, unnuanced opinion that “violence is bad” because you’ve never needed to use it to preserve your life or your humanity and you don’t care to protect the lives of the oppressed. You are one of an interminable number of terminal centrists who would rather be in the middle than actually be challenged to imagine that one side might be right. If we went back 150 years, you would be arguing for us to see the humanity of the slaveholder and understand his position; you would have condemned revolt and demanded the enslaved person debate the slaver with compassion. Grow up and find your damn spine or get out of the way of the rest of us.
Regarding violence: during Stonewall and the following riots, a lot of white cis gay men complained that the rest of us - lesbians, trans people, nonwhite queer people - were being too loud, too violent, wanted change “too fast,” and in the process were actually damaging our cause and stopping us (really, just the white cis gay men) from getting assimilated and accepted. Similar things happened to every civil rights movement; MLK famously wrote a whole thing about the “white moderate.” That’s what’s happening here, and all i can say is: fuck that. Stonewall was a riot and it worked. When the enemy is violent, to be violent back is self-defense, not something to condemn. We have tried to argue for our rights, protest peacefully, and every other stupid pointless exercise that the moderates and liberals tell us is the actual way for progress, and the result is we get beaten, arrested, and killed. We have given them a chance to show us humanity and they have doubled down. So please, shut up. You are not original. You are not special, you are not showing any sort of intelligence here. You are the latest repetition of a cowardly, lukewarm, unnuanced opinion that “violence is bad” because you’ve never needed to use it to preserve your life or your humanity and you don’t care to protect the lives of the oppressed. You are one of an interminable number of terminal centrists who would rather be in the middle than actually be challenged to imagine that one side might be right. If we went back 150 years, you would be arguing for us to see the humanity of the slaveholder and understand his position; you would have condemned revolt and demanded the enslaved person debate the slaver with compassion. Grow up and find your damn spine or get out of the way of the rest of us.
this whole "us vs them" is the whole source of the conflict. stop dividing people into groups, and work on breaking down barriers. im not saying dont use violence, as while ideal, that isnt always an option, but i feal you are being a bit hypocritical. i want to make it clear. I AM NOT BEING AGGRESIVE WHATSOEVER. i just think you need a different perspective. Im not saying you dont have a right to be angry, you absolutely do. i admit that i will likely never know your struggle, and nothing i say will be able to adress the hardships you have to endure. but make sure your anger dosent lead to hate. hate dosent help anyone. no one here is judging you. no one here wants to hurt you. this is a safe space for you to vent about your struggle, and we will listen and comfort you. and its ok of you get frustrated at us for not being able to understand what you have gone through. but dont hold it against us. if i come off as insensitive, i am sorry. it is not because i dont feel sorry for you, i just have a hard time communicating sometimes. i apoligize deeply if i made you feel unheard, and in hindsight, i probobly couldve done a better job suporting you. i probobly sounded like a priveleged asshole, and i am sorry. happy pride month everyone, and i wish you all the best.
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this stuff isn't just internet debates. i know so many transfems who are struggling for housing, finding work, and existing in public because of these people. if pressed about it, conservatives would either deny these struggles or say they were deserved. some entities i know have this framework thing where they call conservatives "abusers" and note similarities between conservative methods of argumentation and methods of abuse in relationships. personally i don't think that's universally applicable but this is a textbook case of where it's useful.
how many chances must we give people who have told us they are unwilling to change? why are we, the ignored, talked-over, and harassed ones, being tasked with extending the olive branch? i am not "debating" a matt walsh fan. doing so does not help my friends in any way whatsoever. the best i can do is keep surviving and saving my energy for people i care about.