Last night, I played DHR's modification of Fire Red. His intention was to make the game more balanced and harder and add more variety. Currently, it's only a WIP: the version I played was done up until the player leaves Cerulean City for Vermillion City. After playing up to that point, I had the same feeling I had when playing a lot of other Pokémon hacks that attempt to increase difficulty: that Pokémon games rarely actually become hard, only more tedious.
It is extremely hard if not impossible to actually force the player to use strategy and be creative to beat any in-game quest. More likely, the "strategy" used to overcome any obstacle is to:
1. Buy more healing items
2. Save and hope for better luck (avoiding crits/misses in the AI's favor, getting crits/misses in your favor)
3. Grind levels
As I was putting this to words in a discussion in #oi, I realized that a lot of design choices in Pokémon can be argued as very poor if you look at it from a certain perspective. It's important to note that this does not mean that I think Pokémon games are all bad (I love them!). However, I'm sure you can all see that Pokémon games are generally not all that difficult, and trying to come up with a way to make them harder will only result in the players resulting into using one of the above "strategies". I consider them cop-outs more than strategies.
Let's look at Pokémon games from a perspective of a game designer who seeks to make a game where the player:
- Needs to use strategy to beat the opponents
- Cannot make use of the above cop-outs to compensate for lack of strategy
If at this point you're thinking: "I enjoy Pokémon games the way they are and wouldn't change a thing!", then this thread might not be for you.
Here's a proper outline of the problems present in the Pokemon games.
The Pokemon Center Problem
See if you can beat 5, 6, 7 or whatever amount of Trainers in a row! Think you got what it takes? If not, feel free to walk all the way back to the Pokémon Center inbetween battles, and you'll be fine. Healing at a Pokémon Center comes at no cost at all to the player other than his precious time. Pokemon Centers are obviously meant to be safe heavens, and there's a certain comfort to knowing that you can always get back to fresh.
But what they also do is devalue a player's ability to conserve health and PP over the course of multiple battles, and take away the option of increasing difficulty by placing multiple trainers in a row. I'm sure all of you remember the dungeons in the Black and White games being a lot less tough once you've found the neighbourhood doctor.
Items are too good
Oh boy, I didn't expect Cynthia's Garchomp to actually have Earthquake. RIP, Lucario. I'll just send in my Bidoof, Revive Lucario, maybe Hyper Potions if needed, and go at it again. OMG Cynthia how dare she use a Full Restore, so frustrating and unfair, NGGGH!
There's a reason link battles do not allow items: they are completely ridiculous. The ability to bring your Pokemon back from being fainted (even with full health if you're willing to use a Max Revive), heal 200 HP or more in one shot and maybe even get rid of their status conditions in the process is invaluable. And let's not forget the X-items that, in combination with healing items, basically give every Pokemon a status boosting move.
This issue is compounded by the fact that while some of these items don't "look" cheap ($300 for a glass of Lemonade? I'll pass!), we usually have a lot of money to work with.
Wild Pokémon, and therefore EXP, are in infinite supply
The concept of grinding is as old as any game with EXP, I'm sure. If you can't beat the big bad Gym Leader, you can always just have to beat 1000 Pidgeys and try again. Your level is only limited by your patience. Given enough time, any Pokemon can become the very best, like no one ever was (except perhaps a Thick Fat Azumarill against the Hoenn Elite Four).
This issue is of course only a big one in combination with the Pokemon Centers. In challenge runs that restrict or forbid the use of a Pokemon Center, such as this, a limit is placed on the amount of grinding the person can do. Note that this particular run does it anyway: he trains his Squirtle by catching a bunch of wild Spearow, finding Metapod and Kakuna in Viridian Forest and uses the known switch-in-and-out strategy to train Squirtle without wasting its PP.
There are of course more problems, but these are the ones that came to mind first.
That's great, we've found the problems. Now how can we solve them?
I don't know for sure, but I have some ideas. Here are some that I don't like:
- Make enemies have higher levels / better movesets
This is what most Pokémon hacks do, and unfortunately, what this does is make the player resort to the cop-outs above. Some people enjoy this kind of a challenge, but I personally do not.
- Make healing cost money / Give the player less money
The reason I don't like this kind of solution is because it makes the game a bit scary to play. You can get yourself stuck in a spot where you can't win anymore because you might need a certain amount of items or healing to get past a certain point. It might turn the game into one where you have to trial-and-error on your first playthrough, and then everything from there becomes a cakewalk.
Here is a "hack idea" with changes that, in theory, solve the above problems. They might not create the Pokemon experience everyone is looking for, as they differ so much from what makes Pokemon Pokemon...but remember, that's not our main goal!
Turn the game into a giant Battle Tower
This means that every battle adopts Battle Tower rules, which has the following consequences:
1. Players cannot use items during battle
2. Players are automatically fully healed between battles
3. All Pokémon are at a certain level and do not gain EXP
4. Enemies are set to a certain level as well
You would still have your usual overworld nature adventure as usual, but you do not go through a progress of training. Instead, you could gradually increase the level that the battles take place at, and with that the complexity of both the player's and opponent's movesets. Instead of leveling up, the player's Pokemon would gain new moves through TMs, move tutors and other events whenever the designer deems it balanced.
This makes the game flow a lot more predictable, as the game designer knows exactly what the player has access to at any point of the game. Of course, this system will reduce replay value and makes skippable battles entirely redundant, as there's no feeling of accomplishment whenever a player's Pokemon levels up.
I hope I've explained my points properly. Please use this thread to discuss Pokemon and game design, any problems in the Pokémon games and any (theoretical) solutions you might have to these problems!
tl;dr Nope just read my post.
It is extremely hard if not impossible to actually force the player to use strategy and be creative to beat any in-game quest. More likely, the "strategy" used to overcome any obstacle is to:
1. Buy more healing items
2. Save and hope for better luck (avoiding crits/misses in the AI's favor, getting crits/misses in your favor)
3. Grind levels
As I was putting this to words in a discussion in #oi, I realized that a lot of design choices in Pokémon can be argued as very poor if you look at it from a certain perspective. It's important to note that this does not mean that I think Pokémon games are all bad (I love them!). However, I'm sure you can all see that Pokémon games are generally not all that difficult, and trying to come up with a way to make them harder will only result in the players resulting into using one of the above "strategies". I consider them cop-outs more than strategies.
Let's look at Pokémon games from a perspective of a game designer who seeks to make a game where the player:
- Needs to use strategy to beat the opponents
- Cannot make use of the above cop-outs to compensate for lack of strategy
If at this point you're thinking: "I enjoy Pokémon games the way they are and wouldn't change a thing!", then this thread might not be for you.
Here's a proper outline of the problems present in the Pokemon games.
The Pokemon Center Problem
See if you can beat 5, 6, 7 or whatever amount of Trainers in a row! Think you got what it takes? If not, feel free to walk all the way back to the Pokémon Center inbetween battles, and you'll be fine. Healing at a Pokémon Center comes at no cost at all to the player other than his precious time. Pokemon Centers are obviously meant to be safe heavens, and there's a certain comfort to knowing that you can always get back to fresh.
But what they also do is devalue a player's ability to conserve health and PP over the course of multiple battles, and take away the option of increasing difficulty by placing multiple trainers in a row. I'm sure all of you remember the dungeons in the Black and White games being a lot less tough once you've found the neighbourhood doctor.
Items are too good
Oh boy, I didn't expect Cynthia's Garchomp to actually have Earthquake. RIP, Lucario. I'll just send in my Bidoof, Revive Lucario, maybe Hyper Potions if needed, and go at it again. OMG Cynthia how dare she use a Full Restore, so frustrating and unfair, NGGGH!
There's a reason link battles do not allow items: they are completely ridiculous. The ability to bring your Pokemon back from being fainted (even with full health if you're willing to use a Max Revive), heal 200 HP or more in one shot and maybe even get rid of their status conditions in the process is invaluable. And let's not forget the X-items that, in combination with healing items, basically give every Pokemon a status boosting move.
This issue is compounded by the fact that while some of these items don't "look" cheap ($300 for a glass of Lemonade? I'll pass!), we usually have a lot of money to work with.
Wild Pokémon, and therefore EXP, are in infinite supply
The concept of grinding is as old as any game with EXP, I'm sure. If you can't beat the big bad Gym Leader, you can always just have to beat 1000 Pidgeys and try again. Your level is only limited by your patience. Given enough time, any Pokemon can become the very best, like no one ever was (except perhaps a Thick Fat Azumarill against the Hoenn Elite Four).
This issue is of course only a big one in combination with the Pokemon Centers. In challenge runs that restrict or forbid the use of a Pokemon Center, such as this, a limit is placed on the amount of grinding the person can do. Note that this particular run does it anyway: he trains his Squirtle by catching a bunch of wild Spearow, finding Metapod and Kakuna in Viridian Forest and uses the known switch-in-and-out strategy to train Squirtle without wasting its PP.
There are of course more problems, but these are the ones that came to mind first.
That's great, we've found the problems. Now how can we solve them?
I don't know for sure, but I have some ideas. Here are some that I don't like:
- Make enemies have higher levels / better movesets
This is what most Pokémon hacks do, and unfortunately, what this does is make the player resort to the cop-outs above. Some people enjoy this kind of a challenge, but I personally do not.
- Make healing cost money / Give the player less money
The reason I don't like this kind of solution is because it makes the game a bit scary to play. You can get yourself stuck in a spot where you can't win anymore because you might need a certain amount of items or healing to get past a certain point. It might turn the game into one where you have to trial-and-error on your first playthrough, and then everything from there becomes a cakewalk.
Here is a "hack idea" with changes that, in theory, solve the above problems. They might not create the Pokemon experience everyone is looking for, as they differ so much from what makes Pokemon Pokemon...but remember, that's not our main goal!
Turn the game into a giant Battle Tower
This means that every battle adopts Battle Tower rules, which has the following consequences:
1. Players cannot use items during battle
2. Players are automatically fully healed between battles
3. All Pokémon are at a certain level and do not gain EXP
4. Enemies are set to a certain level as well
You would still have your usual overworld nature adventure as usual, but you do not go through a progress of training. Instead, you could gradually increase the level that the battles take place at, and with that the complexity of both the player's and opponent's movesets. Instead of leveling up, the player's Pokemon would gain new moves through TMs, move tutors and other events whenever the designer deems it balanced.
This makes the game flow a lot more predictable, as the game designer knows exactly what the player has access to at any point of the game. Of course, this system will reduce replay value and makes skippable battles entirely redundant, as there's no feeling of accomplishment whenever a player's Pokemon levels up.
I hope I've explained my points properly. Please use this thread to discuss Pokemon and game design, any problems in the Pokémon games and any (theoretical) solutions you might have to these problems!
tl;dr Nope just read my post.
