This could be completely random, but perhaps there’s a mechanic similar to how in older gens damage is effected by badges, but instead with the stars or lords?
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Research Legends: Arceus Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Nice find! For those who'd predictably having trouble watching a Japanese video, I think (I can't read Japanese) the formula they assert is:
Attack * 0.2 + Level * 3 + 20
------------------------------- * BP * stat modifier
Defense + 50
This seems to line up with my results, and usually when it doesn't it's because I think my ranges are incomplete - max/min should correspond to 1/.85 which my data is sometimes a bit shy of. This formula does not seem to use integer division as it's written here, though I suspect in reality the multiplicative factors are probably done before the division.
The one notable exception I'm seeing is with the Level 27 Staravia I found - this says the max damage Aerial Ace should deal to my 206 defense Yanmega is 70. My observed range was 54-62. While 62 might not be the highest value, 70 is still too high of a max value to correspond to min value 54. Granted, I could be missing something important from the video since I can't read Japanese.
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I've been resetting in front of the alpha Infernape for a few days, having my Gyarados take Giga Impacts while it came close to OHKOing Infernape with Aqua Tail. I would then catch it to check the Aqua Tail rolls. This part was mostly a waste of time since there were too many variables to juggle for reversing the damage formula, but now we know Pokemon with "Wild Might" have 1.5x offensive and defensive stats.
Infernape also knows Raging Fury, so I took a few of those hits with Dialga after exhausting its Close Combat PP. It was a huge pain to bait it to choose Raging Fury twice in a row, and then there's the accuracy issue even when it does...
Raging Fury from Level 65, Wild Might, 185 Attack Infernape against 345 Defense Dialga:
Unfortunately pretty sporadic results but even without the new damage formula it was clear the fixated status grants the user 1.5x damage for subsequent hits with the same move.
Anyway, the main reason I was resetting alpha Infernape was to get it to know Stealth Rock so I could test splinter damage. Turns out the 25 in the move data for the splinter attacks is a power value. The game does another damage calculation with the user and target, except with a 25-power version of whichever type the attack was. There's no critical hits or damage variance done here; splinter damage is always the max roll of a 25-power attack every turn.
Some numbers for Stealth Rock from Level 65, Wild Might, 185 Attack alpha Infernape:
You'll notice the splinters damage in this case includes the Wild Might modifier to Attack! I wonder if I can use Calm Mind or something after the fact to increase or decrease this damage...
Infernape also knows Raging Fury, so I took a few of those hits with Dialga after exhausting its Close Combat PP. It was a huge pain to bait it to choose Raging Fury twice in a row, and then there's the accuracy issue even when it does...
Raging Fury from Level 65, Wild Might, 185 Attack Infernape against 345 Defense Dialga:
Code:
regular 72, 65, 71, 67, 70, 69, 74, 71
+1 112
+1 fixated 165
agile 45, 42, 47, 45
agile fixated 69, 66, 67Unfortunately pretty sporadic results but even without the new damage formula it was clear the fixated status grants the user 1.5x damage for subsequent hits with the same move.
Anyway, the main reason I was resetting alpha Infernape was to get it to know Stealth Rock so I could test splinter damage. Turns out the 25 in the move data for the splinter attacks is a power value. The game does another damage calculation with the user and target, except with a 25-power version of whichever type the attack was. There's no critical hits or damage variance done here; splinter damage is always the max roll of a 25-power attack every turn.
Some numbers for Stealth Rock from Level 65, Wild Might, 185 Attack alpha Infernape:
regular
72
68
66
66
68
76
68
72
98 crit
70
68
68
66
110 crit
68
74
68
74
74
74
70
70
78
agile
58
52
58
50
50
52
56
52
52
splinters
48
72
68
66
66
68
76
68
72
98 crit
70
68
68
66
110 crit
68
74
68
74
74
74
70
70
78
agile
58
52
58
50
50
52
56
52
52
splinters
48
regular
88
76
84
80
80
78
86
80
82
76
86
88
86
78
86
agile
58
64
60
62
62
66
54
66
splinters
56
88
76
84
80
80
78
86
80
82
76
86
88
86
78
86
agile
58
64
60
62
62
66
54
66
splinters
56
So splinters is basically the gen 1 binding move mechanics mixed with the later gen ones?
also somewhat related, is the form change of Cherrim purely visual or does it get the Flower Gift boost? (since from GenV onward the ability gave BOTH the boosts and the form change)
https://www.serebii.net/legendsarceus/updatedstats.shtml
According to serebii Sunshine Cherrim has new stats of 70/90/70/87/117/85 compared to 70/60/70/87/78/85 of normal Cherrim to make up for the fact that abilities don't exist in PLA
that's a fun way to do it
ty!
I can read Japanese, but with a very limited vocabulary. (I can look them up on a dictionary tho) And you're right, it's basically:
Other modifiers details:
Type effectiveness = Resistance 0.5x or 0.4x, Weakness 2x or 2.5x
STAB = 1.25x
Attack Up = 1.5x
Defense Up = ⅔x
Double Hit = 1.5x
Critical Hit = 1.5x
*Wild Alpha Pokemon have 1.5x Attack, Defense, Sp. Attack, Sp. Defense, and Speed thanks to Wild Might
*There's a 0.85-1 RNG adjustment
I'll try to watch the video later to try to see if anything is worth picking up.
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Re: these posts, turns out that what is listed as "StrongTargetActionSpeedMod" in the move data is in reality an action speed modifier to the target from agile style moves.
Sorry, this is entirely my bad; that's what I get for labeling these fields before playing the game.
It still doesn't make much sense conceptually that most agile style moves lower the target's action speed instead of raising the user's, but I guess this is a game balance choice for multiple opponents.
Unless I am just mathematically illiterate, this means the defensive stat is a significantly larger factor in the damage calculation than the offensive stat, correct?
Factoring out the 0.2 makes it a bit easier to read. (might change rounding behavior)
Code:
Damage = ((Attack * 0.2 + Attacker Level * 3 + 20) / (Defense + 50)) * Base Power * other modifiers
= 0.2 * (Attack + Attacker Level * 15 + 100) / (Defense + 50) * Base Power * other modifiers
Code:
At level 0:
0.2 * (Attack + 100) / (Defense + 50) * Base Power * other modifiers
At level 50:
0.2 * (Attack + 850) / (Defense + 50) * Base Power * other modifiers
At level 100:
0.2 * (Attack + 1600) / (Defense + 50) * Base Power * other modifiers(I guess that does mean defensive pokemon have an advantage over frail ones, though how often you take turns also matters a lot. And defensive pokemon are often slow while frail ones are often fast.)
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OrdA has the right idea; the "real" damage formula is what it looks like with the division by 5 placed at the end:
But because no flooring happens until after both divisions, you can just work one of them into the other fraction, which gives the same equation the Japanese community engineered:
So your actual offensive stat matters way less because it has a larger scalar tacked on than the defensive stat.
But yeah, obviously Speed is king in this game. That level 100 Weavile in the turn order video above swept Ingo's team in 30 turns with Ice Shard without Ingo's Pokemon having the chance to do anything. The player even spent three of those turns using Hopo Berries to restore Ice Shard PP. Absolutely busted.
But because no flooring happens until after both divisions, you can just work one of them into the other fraction, which gives the same equation the Japanese community engineered:
So your actual offensive stat matters way less because it has a larger scalar tacked on than the defensive stat.
But yeah, obviously Speed is king in this game. That level 100 Weavile in the turn order video above swept Ingo's team in 30 turns with Ice Shard without Ingo's Pokemon having the chance to do anything. The player even spent three of those turns using Hopo Berries to restore Ice Shard PP. Absolutely busted.
Distributing it throughout the formula doesn't change how much it waters down the pokemon's individual stat. The idea that offensive stats are nerfed compared to mainline games understates the gravity of the change.
Here's the extent of what I'm trying to say:
At high levels, attack stat is basically irrelevant.
Lvl 100 max Sp.A Weedle (128 Sp.A) Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 100 max Sp.D Wyrdeer
77-90 damage min. 5HKO
Lvl 100 max Sp.A Weedle (128 Sp.A) Hyper Beam vs. Lvl 100 max Sp.D (292) Wyrdeer
85-101 damage min. 5HKO
Lvl 100 max Sp.A Alakazam (453 Sp.A) Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 100 max Sp.D (292) Wyrdeer
91-108 damage min. 5HKO
Lvl 100 max Sp.A Alakazam (453 Sp.A) Hyper Beam vs. Lvl 100 max Sp.D (292) Wyrdeer
102-120 damage min. 4HKO
Defense on the other hand changes significantly more:
Lvl 100 max Sp.A Alakazam (453 Sp.A) Hyper Beam vs. Lvl 100 min Sp.D (175) Wyrdeer
155-182 damage min. 3HKO
Assuming this formula is indeed accurate -
At high levels the only thing that matters is the BP of the move and your modifiers. Not your offensive stats. Speed and Defenses are the only relevant stats in PLA especially as you reach levels above like 30.
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Oh my god please tell me this is true
Lv 70 Regigigas 284 Attack Iron Head VS 205 Defense Rhydon
No Slow Start -> (150, 152, 154, 156, 158, 160, 160, 162, 164, 166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 176, 178)
Slow Start -> (136, 138, 140, 142, 144, 144, 146, 148, 150, 152, 152, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162)
I got rolls of 142 and 158, so Slow Start is still halving Attack. But this is just another prime example of how pointless the attacking stat is in this game.
Wow is it really that bad? This does not seem like a halving in the slightest
Look a couple posts up. Weedle and Alakazam are basically the same power at Lvl 100.
So, I assume TargetActionSpeedMod is an action speed modifier to the target from standard moves, right? What about Priority and Flinch? Do you know what exactly they're used for?Re: these posts, turns out that what is listed as "StrongTargetActionSpeedMod" in the move data is in reality an action speed modifier to the target from agile style moves.
Sorry, this is entirely my bad; that's what I get for labeling these fields before playing the game.
It still doesn't make much sense conceptually that most agile style moves lower the target's action speed instead of raising the user's, but I guess this is a game balance choice for multiple opponents.
Priority moves increase the user's Action Speed. In PLA we only have +1 Priority moves from the main series and they all have the base ActionSpeedMod of -4 (except Baby-Doll Eyes with -3 to match other Status moves that change only one stat). Wave Crash and Esper Wing are not coded with Priority so their mechanics might change in future main series.
Flinch moves from the main series decrease the target's Action Speed (i.e. same effect as Bulldoze) in PLA, plus moves that originally lower the target's Speed (Bubble, Icy Wind), Crush Grip (now with fixed 100 bp), Fairy Wind (so it's not a vanilla move anymore) and Triple Arrows (yeah that's the hidden effect of Hisuian Decidueye's signature move).
All moves that decrease the target's Action Speed (all with the TargetActionSpeedMod of 3) in PLA as shown in the graph:
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