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Latias Voting
- Thread starter Aeolus
- Start date
Hi can i vote now i have reached the requirement. Btw me playing chenman was a coincidence. Ill understand if i cant vote but i would really like to and i feel i have deserved the right albeit a bit late. I have played stall offense and balnce in my quest for this rating and i feel this validates my claim to vote.
Im the fury btw.
And finally i have no idea how to get an image of my rating and deviation if that would be helpful although twash tried to help me. I will try and get that up asap.
Im the fury btw.
And finally i have no idea how to get an image of my rating and deviation if that would be helpful although twash tried to help me. I will try and get that up asap.
I'm not trying to argue whether I should have to write a paragraph since the qualifications were pretty clear, but in the future it would be a good idea to make the requirement "deviation must be less than 55.5" instead of what it is now ("deviation must be 55 or less"). Since shoddy rounds down according to maths rules (as opposed to just truncating the end of the double) and only shows integer values for rating, it would have shown my deviation of 55.18 as 55, and I would have thought that I was qualified if I had checked on the last day of the test (which I didn't; it would just be nice to avoid this in the future).
I'm actually shocked that the list of eligible voters is this large, considering that I often waited between twenty minutes and two hours without getting a single suspect battle. Granted, I haven't been on at the busiest times, but the interest shown in what is literally deciding the OU tier is still disappointing =/
Edit: I'll go ahead and say that the only way to keep this from happening in future tests is to regularly advertise the ladder on Shoddy. Announcements on the forums obviously help spread interest, but you can't assume that every player regularly visits Smogon, or that the regulars even check Stark. Every time I asked the main chat to get on the Suspect ladder, I got multiple people telling me they didn't even know what it was (and no it wasn't always new people).
So how do we fix this? Well, we have to start with the welcome message. Now I know that very few people actually read the welcome message, but I'm sure at least a few would notice that a picture of Latios alongside giant red text had started appearing at the top, instead of the regular Smogon coat of arms. Next, and most importantly, we need to remind people what Suspect is there for multiple times a day. Neither of these are drastic changes, and they don't take much effort to do, but I really do believe they would make a huge difference in Suspect interest (not to mention less bitching about why X was unbanned fuck Smogon etc). Please don't think this post is only directed to Shoddy staff, as it doesn't take an admin to throw out a comment every few hours.
If anyone brushes this off as an "oh well their loss" situation, remember that a dead ladder kills the chances of qualifying for the people who don't have all day to play Shoddy.
Edit: I'll go ahead and say that the only way to keep this from happening in future tests is to regularly advertise the ladder on Shoddy. Announcements on the forums obviously help spread interest, but you can't assume that every player regularly visits Smogon, or that the regulars even check Stark. Every time I asked the main chat to get on the Suspect ladder, I got multiple people telling me they didn't even know what it was (and no it wasn't always new people).
So how do we fix this? Well, we have to start with the welcome message. Now I know that very few people actually read the welcome message, but I'm sure at least a few would notice that a picture of Latios alongside giant red text had started appearing at the top, instead of the regular Smogon coat of arms. Next, and most importantly, we need to remind people what Suspect is there for multiple times a day. Neither of these are drastic changes, and they don't take much effort to do, but I really do believe they would make a huge difference in Suspect interest (not to mention less bitching about why X was unbanned fuck Smogon etc). Please don't think this post is only directed to Shoddy staff, as it doesn't take an admin to throw out a comment every few hours.
If anyone brushes this off as an "oh well their loss" situation, remember that a dead ladder kills the chances of qualifying for the people who don't have all day to play Shoddy.
And you think running two tests at the same time, one of which is a brand new tier, had nothing to do with it? I never have a problem finding a battle on the UU ladder.
As for me personally, well, I'm trying to find a new place to live right now and didn't have much time to play on either ladder.
As for me personally, well, I'm trying to find a new place to live right now and didn't have much time to play on either ladder.
The new UU was talked about a lot more than Latias testing was, especially in the latter stages. There was also a fairly large installed base who regularly played UU, and no similar but more active ladder to attract more players. The fact that an entire new tier was being formed, rather than one Pokemon being tested probably helped UU too...
Building off what Gouki said, the fact that it was mostly only voter hopefuls playing the ladder didn't help the voting pool either; of these hopefuls, only the best of them actually made the list, while others are stuck against this "barrier" that they simply can't break because they're forced to battle players that are above their league. Instead of obtaining a rating relative to the community, they obtaina rating relative to other voters. This effect didn't help much.
Perhaps lowering the requirements a bit? While it is important that we have good battlers voting, with bold voting being instituted it is not as much of an issue, since bad votes will be weeded out. The threshold from was when people didn't have to voice their reasoning and their ranking was the only indicator we had. Such is not the case anymore. I'd rather have a few more bad votes but more voters representing such a large community than mostly good votes from a smaller sample. There will still be a minimum requirement, but with such a relatively small pool of players it doesn't have to be as steep.
I don't think lowering the requirements is what one wants to reach too. I personally think 24 people voting is enough (for all who care anyway). Maybe there could have been more voters, but if they honestly cared, they would've sacrificed a bit of time off the UU ladder and get your rating up on suspect. Everyone who got to the list, was because of one thing: Because that person wanted to vote, and wanted his/her vote to count.
Not to mention, UU ladder test is still up and going, while Suspect Test for Latias is now close to being over. The pool of players that have reached the requirements, are those who really care about what's going to happen to the tier, and want to express their opinion. Didn't take much time anyway to get your ranking up, I started on Saturdayay and had it done by Sunday morning, so I don't think there's any excuse if you didn't make the list.
Not to mention, UU ladder test is still up and going, while Suspect Test for Latias is now close to being over. The pool of players that have reached the requirements, are those who really care about what's going to happen to the tier, and want to express their opinion. Didn't take much time anyway to get your ranking up, I started on Saturdayay and had it done by Sunday morning, so I don't think there's any excuse if you didn't make the list.
Part of what made this ladder process so difficult for so many people, in my opinion, was the lack of consistency in the way most people laddered. Most players did not play on the Suspect ladder throughout the duration of the Suspect test; in the middle of the testing period, only a few of us were ever on it. The beginning and end of the test is when the ladder was busiest. Complicating matters further, several of the highly-ranked qualifiers (imperfectluck and ToF come to mind) did the majority of their laddering late in the testing period. Although I did the vast majority of my Suspect laddering on my main nick, I only qualified on my alt; I kept playing into the last few days of the test, only to lose repeatedly (something like 2-18, it was brutal) to ToF and lose eligibility on my main three days or so before the test. As it was, I had to create a new alt and ladder all over back up to eligibility once ToF, TAY, etc. were finished laddering. Who knows how many eligible voters I kept out by repeatedly beating them on the way up through my alt? In other words, the community really needs to learn not to procrastinate; it won't be easy to get to 1655/65 if you run into a player trying to get up to 1765/55 twelve consecutive times.
In addition, with a smaller pool of voters the chances of going up in rank decreases, since you have a higher chance of repeatedly battling people who are better than you. While this may not deter the top-tier players, not everyone can compete with the better battlers on the site, and those are the ones you will see most often with such a small pool and the wait times. We don't want just the very top players and badge holders voting. If we wanted that, it would be decided in PR, not an open vote. We need standards to ensure some competency, but we should also want more opinions than the few we will be getting.
Hey reachzero, I qualified both my alt account and my main account in the first week of suspect, then had to take a break because I had to take a trip to China. When I came back, my deviation was absolutely shit, and I didn't come back until Jan 18th. Just making a note of that :(
i'm gf-fail
ReachZero"The beginning and end of the test is when the ladder was busiest."
Really? Well yes, the beginning was busy but you found the end busy? For me, I clicked find match, left for 20 minutes, and had no match. Sometimes I would forget that I even clicked the button and end up losing points :/
Hi ipl, u went to china? How was that lol, i'm going again this year
ReachZero"The beginning and end of the test is when the ladder was busiest."
Really? Well yes, the beginning was busy but you found the end busy? For me, I clicked find match, left for 20 minutes, and had no match. Sometimes I would forget that I even clicked the button and end up losing points :/
Hi ipl, u went to china? How was that lol, i'm going again this year
The "two hour wait for a match" clause is absolutely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I got two accounts in the voting requirements range, with the F.B.I. account reaching above 1800 two days before the test ended (and I only laddered for one day continuously, basically to decrease deviation). Yes, I battled the same players over and over basically, and won the majority of battles, but the two hour wait thing is absolutely ridiculous and false. If you wanted to vote, you easily could devote time to laddering and reaching the requirements. As far as I'm concerned, the lack of voters is not a testament to the new requirements, but the lack of effort of the community.
Oh, and a second thing, the UU test definitely did not detract from my suspect time, so that argument is null in my opinion as well. I had as much success on the UU ladder in coincidence with the suspect ladder, so its obviously not a thing of choosing a ladder and dedicating yourself to it. With minimal time, you can easily reach the top of the UU ladder as well as the voting requirements on suspect. All these arguments in my honest opinion are excuses that reflect lack of interest in this suspect process that we have the opportunity to shape and reflect on.
Edit: The last thing I want to add is the points reachzero made. The fact that I had to battle him 30 or so times during the last week of suspect is due to the lack of interest in the ladder, as I stated earlier. However, regardless of how many times we played, and however much I decreased his rating, he still managed to qualify for the suspect vote. As I constantly preach, it is not due to the competition of the ladder, but rather the effort the community is lacking in this process. Obviously, if someone can lose voting rights due to tough competition, and regain them within a limited time frame (I'm talking two to three days), the lack of activity is not a valid enough reason to blame the suspect process.
Oh, and a second thing, the UU test definitely did not detract from my suspect time, so that argument is null in my opinion as well. I had as much success on the UU ladder in coincidence with the suspect ladder, so its obviously not a thing of choosing a ladder and dedicating yourself to it. With minimal time, you can easily reach the top of the UU ladder as well as the voting requirements on suspect. All these arguments in my honest opinion are excuses that reflect lack of interest in this suspect process that we have the opportunity to shape and reflect on.
Edit: The last thing I want to add is the points reachzero made. The fact that I had to battle him 30 or so times during the last week of suspect is due to the lack of interest in the ladder, as I stated earlier. However, regardless of how many times we played, and however much I decreased his rating, he still managed to qualify for the suspect vote. As I constantly preach, it is not due to the competition of the ladder, but rather the effort the community is lacking in this process. Obviously, if someone can lose voting rights due to tough competition, and regain them within a limited time frame (I'm talking two to three days), the lack of activity is not a valid enough reason to blame the suspect process.
I'm Knuckles_6 (obviously)