Kingdra [QC: 0/3]

Josh Morales

Josh Morales

Overview
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  • Kingdra's dual STABs can hit the majority of the metagame for neutral damage.
  • Kingdra has an amazing ability: Swift Swim, and is arguably the best pokemon to utilize it.
  • Although it has powerful options for attacks, its attacking stats can prove very underwhelming, thus making Life Orb necessary.
  • Swift Swim boosts its speed well above the speed of Deoxys-S and many Choice Scarfers; although the Drizzle nerf makes it much less reliable and causing you to spend a move slot on Rain Dance, Drizzle+Swift Swin was banned last generation anyway so be thankful for it being allowed.


Special Attacker
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name: Special Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Waterfall / Surf
move 4: Rain Dance / Dragon Pulse
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash / Naive
evs: 4 hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
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  • Hydropump is your main special Water-type STAB attack. It has a very high Base Power, but it does have the uncanny ability to miss exactly when you least want it to miss.
  • Draco Meteor is an incredibly powerful special Dragon-type STAB that can deal serious damage to almost anything that doesn't resist it. However it does halve you Special Attack stat upon use, so only use it if you absoluetly need to for the kill.
  • Waterfall is a decently poweful, more reliable, physical Water-type stab that can take special walls off guard and can be used if you know it will KO and you're worried about Hydropump missing in important situations.
  • Surf is a viable alternative to Waterfall that you may use when landing a hit is crucial and you don't want to miss with Hydropump.
  • For the fourth move slot, Rain Dance is the prefered option because it makes Kingdra much less reliant on Drizzle support from Politoed. Rain Dance sets up rain for 5 turns and with Kingdra's ability, Swift Swim, it doubles your Speed, allowing you to outspeed the entire meta, which is crucial to aid a sweep. It also increases the power of your Water-type STABs by 1.5 times, essentially giving the Base Power of Water-type attacks a 2.25 times boost in power, factoring STAB and the rain.
  • Dragon Pulse is a useful alternative to Rain Dance that acts as a secondary STAB to Draco Meteor that does not halve your Special Attack upon use. Only plan to use this if you plan to be 100% reliant on Politoed's Drizzle support.

Set Details
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  • Swift Swim is the prefered ability because it doubles your Speed during rain, allowing you to potentially sweep.
  • Life Orb is recommended for the item to compemsate for Kingdra's relatively underwhelmimg offensive stats.
  • A Rash Nature is to help give you the most Special Attack possible.
  • A Naive Nature can help achieve the most speed possible but, after the Swift Swim boost in Speed, the Speed boost from using a Naive Nature is completely insignificant.

Usage Tips
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  • Saving Kingdra for late-game is advised to keep your sweeper from not being alive whenyou need it to sweep.
  • A good way to set up a Rain Dance is forcing a switch with Kingdra and using Rain Dance on that turn, as they switch out.

Team Options
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  • Damp Rock Politoed is possibly the best partner for Kingdra, with the ability to indtantly summon 8 turn rain upon switching in, which can eliminate the need to set up a Rain Dance as Kingdra alone.
  • Good teammates for Kingdra are Pokemon that can break down enemy walls, thus making is much easier for Kingdra to sweep mid to late game.
  • Pokemon with access to entry hazards are great partners because the residual chip damage over time can turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs
  • Ferrothorn has great defensive synergy with Kingdra, and can give Kingdra much appreciated support with two types of entry hazards and cripple foes with Thunder Wave
  • Choice Specs Keldeo can help break down Specially Defensive walls and also appreciates the rain.
  • Because Kingdra hates Sticky Web, a Pokemon with access to Rapid Spin or Defog makes for a good partner. Bulky Scizor in particular has good type syngery, can defog away emtry hazards, and can create a VoltTurn core with another teammate.

Other Options
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  • Kingdra can use a Scope Lens as its item, Focus Energy as its setup move, and Sniper as its ability to guarantee critical hits on attacks and have Sniper boost the power of the crits by 1.5x. However, Kingdra has a completely terrible base Speed stat for a sweeper and the only time you're likely to sweep is against very slow, defensive teams, but otherwise against offensive teams, any decently fast pokemon will be able to revenge kill you and ruin your sweep. This is a very difficult strategy to accomplish and is almost 100% outclassed by the other sweeping sets of Kingdra and by other Water-type sweepers, such as Manaphy or Keldeo, as well, so this set is not advised for use, and it is potentially the worst viable Kingdra set one can use.
  • Kingdra can also run a physical set with Dragon Dance and three attacks including Waterfall, Outage, and Return, however the damage output of this set is extremely underwhelming compared to other physical attackers of the current metagame.

Checks & Counters
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**Walls in General**: Depending on the set, dedicated physical or special walls in general put a full on stop to Kingdra.
**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn is easily the best counter to Kingdra. It resists both of Kingdra's dual STABs and can respond with Thunder Wave, the last thing you would want to happen, he could deal a ton of damage with Power Whip or he could set up hazards if Kingdra is locked into Outrage. Ferrothorn also appreciates your rain. Mega Venusaur is another great counter to Kingdra.
**Azumarril**: Azumarill is a complete hard counter, resisting water and immune to dragon, one shotting you in return. Azumarril also benefits from your rain.
**Talonflame**: Talonflame can pick you off with priority Brave Bird if you're a bit weakened but it doesn't like switching into any of your attacks.
 
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Gen 6 gave Kingdra a huge gift: Consistent 292 Power Draco Meteors.

Name: Critter
Move 1: Focus Energy
Move 2: Draco Meteor
Move 3: Hydro Pump
Move 4: HP Fire/Flash Cannon
Ability: Sniper
Item: Scope Lens
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 Spa/252 Spe/6 HP

The point of this set is to laugh at defensively boosting mons/the stat drops from Draco Meteor. After using Focus Energy, this thing will always crit, and, if used in the rain, Hydro Pump's power goes up to 555. HP Fire prevents defeat at the hands of Ferrothorn, while Flash Cannon is slightly stronger and is for fairies.
 
AnybodyAgrees said:
Gen 6 gave Kingdra a huge gift: Consistent 292 Power Draco Meteors.

Name: Critter
Move 1: Focus Energy
Move 2: Draco Meteor
Move 3: Hydro Pump
Move 4: HP Fire/Flash Cannon
Ability: Sniper
Item: Scope Lens
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 Spa/252 Spe/6 HP

The point of this set is to laugh at defensively boosting mons/the stat drops from Draco Meteor. After using Focus Energy, this thing will always crit, and, if used in the rain, Hydro Pump's power goes up to 555. HP Fire prevents defeat at the hands of Ferrothorn, while Flash Cannon is slightly stronger and is for fairies.
Click to expand...

I was informed to not recommend any gimmicks and this set isn't even good because you lose Swift Swim, thus making it near impossible to sweep any offensive team with your mediocre base 85 speed. You also have no initial damage before you boost due to Kingdra's only decently good special attack and no access to Life Orb. Most importantly, it is 100% outclassed by Tail Glow Manaphy in every way possible. Also, you do realize that a Sniper crit from Kingdra on a Flash Cannon has a chance to 3HKO Florges and Florges can just OHKO with Moon Blast if you're only slightly weakened... and even if you kill the Florges you'll be nearly dead and a slow pokemon that is just asking to be revenge killed.
 
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Critdra is not a gimmick, calling critdra a gimmick is like calling a growth, nasty plot ,swords dance or what have you a gimmick. It can not be copied by ditto, it hits through intimidate, it hits through screens, and it has a lot of merits, it can set up on and beat defensive boosters that take many turns to set up, such as calm mind suicune, however it just isn't viable. Yes, it is damn strong, but so are plenty of boosters that aren't used in OU, such as a porygon-Z nasty plot. It is simply too slow to function as anything but a wall breaker, 85 base speed will render you terribly easy to revenge kill. Setting up a rain dance confers a large speed and power boost, as well as a dragon dance, both are superior at sweeping, though inferior at toppling walls.

I would not list it, simply because it isnt good enough to leave a mark on a well put together team.
 
Focus Energy shouldn't have its own set, but I'd give it a mention in Other Options. 100% critical hit chance + Sniper equates to a 2.25x boost to all of Kingdra's attacks, which is a little bit stronger than having both a Nasty Plot and Swords Dance boost while holding the Muscle Band and Wise Glasses simultaneously. Like porky mentioned, its boosts also can't be copied by Imposter Ditto, it blows through defensive boosts, it ignores drops in offense, and it can spam Draco Meteor with no repercussion. The problem isn't so much the set itself as it is the competition it gets from other sweepers and Kingdra's other sets. Manaphy is a lot easier to sweep with considering it greater power, bulk, and speed, and giving up the speed boosts of Swift Swim and Dragon Dance isn't really worth it, even for the raw power that Focus Energy + Sniper provides. However, the set does work, so I think it at least deserves an Other Options mention.
 
I would like QC's opinion on this but I've been thinking about a mixed attacking wallbreaker / potential late game sweeper that might look something like this:

Mixdra
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name: Mixdra
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Outrage / Return
move 3: Draco Meteor / Hydropump
move 4: Rain Dance / Substitute
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 hp / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Nature: Naughty / Lonely

I thought that since Swift Swim's speed boost is so incredible that you might be able to sacrifice speed investment for investment in both attacking stats. With rain up and no speed investment you can outspeed max invested base 137s, which is pretty incredible. What does QC think?
 
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Strongly recommend you invest in enough speed to beat scarf gene there, it's definitely worth it.
 
Josh Morales said:
I would like QC's opinion on this but I've been thinking about a mixed attacking wallbreaker / potential late game sweeper that might look something like this:

Mixdra
########
name: Mixdra
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Outrage / Return
move 3: Draco Meteor / Hydropump
move 4: Rain Dance / Substitute
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 hp / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Nature: Naughty / Lonely

I thought that since Swift Swim's speed boost is so incredible that you might be able to sacrifice speed investment for investment in both attacking stats. With rain up and no speed investment you can outspeed max invested base 137s, which is pretty incredible. What does QC think?
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This is what I came up with for an EV spread; Naughty 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe, which allows you to outspeed up to Jolly ScarfChomp and KO with Outrage/Draco Meteor. That's probably the highest Scarfer you'll commonly see with the huge amount of priority in the tier. Just speaking off the top of my head though.
 
porky said:
Strongly recommend you invest in enough speed to beat scarf gene there, it's definitely worth it.
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That's a good point, how bout this:

Mixdra
########
name: Mixdra
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Outrage / Return
move 3: Draco Meteor / Hydropump
move 4: Rain Dance / Substitute
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Nature: Naughty / Lonely

EDIT: Greninja'd
 
Se7en Lions said:
Is Return even viable outside of Azumarill? Can't think of anything it'd hit harder than Waterfall/Outrage in rain.
Click to expand...
Good point...

Mixdra
########
name: Mixdra
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Draco Meteor / Hydropump
move 4: Rain Dance / Substitute
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Nature: Naughty / Lonely
 
Also, I don't see the point in outspeeding Scarf Genesect when you shouldn't even try and encounter one with a Kingdra, period, also who in their right mind would switch in a Garchomp on a Kingdra? I suppose Garchomp could come in for a revenge kill but the point is that both Garchomp and Genesect can easily be handled with teammates to allow you to have more power in Draco Meteor.
 
Fuzznip said:
Instead of theorymoning potential sets for QC to determine whether it's good or not, I suggest you test them out yourself beforehand and determine for yourself whether you think it's good enough to be included.
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Point taken.

Anyways I'm gonna take the next while off of this topic to work on Infernape, then I'll be back to work on Kingdra.
 
So the first thing I noticed is that your usage tips are lacking. It's a good idea to remove Kingdra's checks and counters before sweeping, but that's true of any Pokemon :P why not instead talk about saving it for late-game, forcing switches in order to use Rain Dance (for the first set) or DD (for the second one)? Just more specific tips on how to use Kingdra in practice.

No mention of Surf whatsoever instead of Waterfall? Maybe it's just be, but I feel like it would be nice to have a secondary special Water attack in case I didn't want to miss with Hydro Pump, but when Waterfall won't cut it. Not saying Waterfall is a bad option, but I think Surf should be slashed or at the very least mentioned in the Set Details section. Same goes for Choice Specs.

Speaking of options that should be mentioned, I would slash Substitute after Return on the DD set. It can be really useful when trying to set up, and makes it harder to be revenge killed by the likes of Talonflame. Additionally, I think Substitute works better outside of the rain than in it (because you want to take advantage of the few turns you have rain up, not waste them with Subs), but it's still a slash worthy option, imo.

You don't have an Other Options section, so I would add one and Focus Energy there.

Finally, I think Sticky Web actually deserves a specific mention in the Checks and Counters section. Every time I've used Kingdra, I end up getting boned by Sticky Web teams unless running a Spinner or Defog user. A +1 Kingdra is not even close to as scary as a +2 Kingdra, and it makes it much, much easier to revenge kill. While this may be true of other Pokemon, since Kindgra's sweeping potential comes from its Speed, I think it should be specifically mentioned for it.
 
Halcyon. said:
So the first thing I noticed is that your usage tips are lacking. It's a good idea to remove Kingdra's checks and counters before sweeping, but that's true of any Pokemon :P why not instead talk about saving it for late-game, forcing switches in order to use Rain Dance (for the first set) or DD (for the second one)? Just more specific tips on how to use Kingdra in practice.
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Oh yeah I remember doing tjat but my damn phone refreshed the page on its own and reset my work twice lol. Will do that.

No mention of Surf whatsoever instead of Waterfall? Maybe it's just be, but I feel like it would be nice to have a secondary special Water attack in case I didn't want to miss with Hydro Pump, but when Waterfall won't cut it. Not saying Waterfall is a bad option, but I think Surf should be slashed or at the very least mentioned in the Set Details section. Same goes for Choice Specs.
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'Aight

Speaking of options that should be mentioned, I would slash Substitute after Return on the DD set. It can be really useful when trying to set up, and makes it harder to be revenge killed by the likes of Talonflame. Additionally, I think Substitute works better outside of the rain than in it (because you want to take advantage of the few turns you have rain up, not waste them with Subs), but it's still a slash worthy option, imo.
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Okay, good idea.

You don't have an Other Options section, so I would add one and Focus Energy there
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Oops lol, and does FE really deserve a mention in OO? It is powerful and all, but why should I use it over, say, Tail Glow Manaphy. I mean, base 85 speed woth n way to boost it is completely terrible for a sweeper, and the bulky is decent bulk not as good as Manaphy or even Keldeo.

Finally, I think Sticky Web actually deserves a specific mention in the Checks and Counters section. Every time I've used Kingdra, I end up getting boned by Sticky Web teams unless running a Spinner or Defog user. A +1 Kingdra is not even close to as scary as a +2 Kingdra, and it makes it much, much easier to revenge kill. While this may be true of other Pokemon, since Kindgra's sweeping potential comes from its Speed, I think it should be specifically mentioned for it.
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Mkay, I'll start making the changes as soon as possible, thanks man
 
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Josh Morales said:
Oops lol, and does FE really deserve a mention in OO? It is powerful and all, but why should I use it over, say, Tail Glow Manaphy. I mean, base 85 speed woth n way to boost it is completely terrible for a sweeper, and the bulky is decent bulk not as good as Manaphy or even Keldeo.
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I do think it's worth mentioning in OO. While it's gimmicky and 85 base speed isn't going to get you anywhere near sweeping potential, there are certain extremely situational times when it's good. For example, it makes a decent BP receiver, either through Shell Smash or Scolipede, and against opposing BP teams it's a godsend. As someone who has pretty good experience playing with full pass teams, I freak out when the opponent uses Kingdra since I have almost no chance to stop it. Again, though, it's extremely situational and doesn't really deserve its own set, which is why OO is a
good place for it.
 
CyclicCompound said:
I do think it's worth mentioning in OO. While it's gimmicky and 85 base speed isn't going to get you anywhere near sweeping potential, there are certain extremely situational times when it's good. For example, it makes a decent BP receiver, either through Shell Smash or Scolipede, and against opposing BP teams it's a godsend. As someone who has pretty good experience playing with full pass teams, I freak out when the opponent uses Kingdra since I have almost no chance to stop it. Again, though, it's extremely situational and doesn't really deserve its own set, which is why OO is a
good place for it.
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Well said, well said, but my position is that I just don't think it's viable, period. Why use a BP user to help Critdra, only to set up another turn with FE. I also fail to see a situation when Critdra is worth it at all.

As a wallbreaker/special nuke

Why should I spend one turn to give you a 2.25 times power boost when you could just use a bulkier, much more powerful, much faster pokemon(Keldeo) and just hit the wall twice...

Critdra:

Turn 1: Uses FE in the setup fodder

Turn 2: You nuke the wall and he retaliates by doing a decent chunk of damage

Turn 3: You kill the wall

Turn 4: He switches into absolutely anything because everything and their mother has higher than 85 base Speed and either revenge kills you or forces you to switch, making setting up your precious FE a moot point.

Specs Keldeo:

Turn 1: Attacks on the switch and nukes the wall

Turn 2: Kills the wall or does significant damage to whatever he switch out into.

Keep in mind that Specs Keldeo has a 1.5x boost in damage so
the ability to attack twice consecutively is effectively as 3x boost to SpA as opposed to Critdra's 2.25 boost and you have a significantly higher base SpA. Keldeo also has superior bulk and a fantastic speed stat and won't be revenge killed by any offensive Pokemon.

As a sweeper

Critdra:

Turn 1: Uses FE on setup fodder

Turn 2: Takes a hit for significant damage but lives because you have taken care of the enemy's checks to Kingdra but you have lost a significant portion of your health because it was a strong neutral hit and KOs back.

Turn 3: Critdra either switches out or is revenge killed.

Tail Glow Manaphy:

Turn 1: Sets up a TG on the setup fodder

Turn 2: Either takes a hit from a faster mon and comfortably lives due to amazing bulk and then retaliates by killing it.

Turn 3+: If its checks are dead(as they should be) you will sweep the rest of their team, most likely.

As a BP receiver

Critdra:

Turn 1: Receives Shell Smash BP

Turn 2: Wait, why the hell am I Critdra? Why would I want to set up again, when that was the point of the BP?



tl;dr Why would anyone ever use Critdra in OU when you can just use something else that completely outclasses it at any role it could possible perform?
 
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Josh Morales said:
tl;dr Why would anyone ever use Critdra in OU when you can just use something else that completely outclasses it at any role it could possible perform?
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I'm not trying to argue that Critdra isn't a gimmicky and usually bad choice. I myself much, much prefer the rain dance sweeping variant. But again, Critdra makes the majority of full pass teams fall flat on their faces. I think that it at least warrants a mention in OO. Keep in mind most things mentioned in OO are relegated to a single sentence or two, so it's not like you have to write anything beyond your tl;dr summary. And finally, there are going to be a lot of newer players who read this that think that having an all-crit set is the second best thing in competitive battling, after Charizard's Blast Burn. As a writer and educator, you should be the one to say "hey, Critdra isn't all that great. It's not sweeping anytime soon with that base 85 speed."

Again, this is just my non-QC input, but I believe it's our duty as analysis writers to evaluate every facet of a Pokemon and comment upon its viability. The OO section is there for things that are borderline viable and extremely situational.
 
CyclicCompound said:
I'm not trying to argue that Critdra isn't a gimmicky and usually bad choice. I myself much, much prefer the rain dance sweeping variant. But again, Critdra makes the majority of full pass teams fall flat on their faces. I think that it at least warrants a mention in OO. Keep in mind most things mentioned in OO are relegated to a single sentence or two, so it's not like you have to write anything beyond your tl;dr summary. And finally, there are going to be a lot of newer players who read this that think that having an all-crit set is the second best thing in competitive battling, after Charizard's Blast Burn. As a writer and educator, you should be the one to say "hey, Critdra isn't all that great. It's not sweeping anytime soon with that base 85 speed."

Again, this is just my non-QC input, but I believe it's our duty as analysis writers to evaluate every facet of a Pokemon and comment upon its viability. The OO section is there for things that are borderline viable and extremely situational.
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Okay, I guess I can add it(although I want QC approval of adding it). I guess I was a little too harsh on it because I'm very anti-gimmick. Critdra, to me, is still a complete waste of a team slot because it just can't reliably(saying not reliable is not even close to enough to express how unreliably) do anything you want it to do. It doesn't seem even borderline viable because of how horrific 85 speed is for a sweeper and especially in this metagame. I'm done ranting about it for now because I've said all the arguments I have and I am just repeating myself at this point. I need the QC team to confirm to me that it is a viable alternative to Kingdra.

P.S. The guidelines said not to recommend any gimmicks in OO and even you said it's gimmicky.
 
okay talked on irc and fuzznip agrees with me on this point: physical kingdra sucks. it's easy to wall and not even that powerful after two (TWO) dragon dances, let alone one. i can't fathom how physical kingdra is worth it at all in a metagame with better special variants of itself and monster unwallable physical titans. definitely remove, down to oo.
 
I would remove Sticky Web from Checks and Counters for two reasons. First, Sticky Web hinders every single grounded offensive Pokemon to a great extend, so what's the point of mentioning it in every single offensive Pokemon? Second and most importantly, Sticky Web is not even that common and viable in OU. The only two viable users of this move in OU are Galvantula and Smeargle, and neither of them are anything to write home about. Both are Pokemon that you need to build a team around and lend themselves into very limited and predictable playstyles (HO offense). I don't see how this warrants adding to various offensive Pokemon Sticky Web in checks and counters, but this may just be me...
 
it's more like 'throw galvantula onto a team and yolo' than build a team around it. sticky web, however, isn't as effective on kingdra because it doesn't totally lose its speed boost, and the mighty defog latios is a hugely awesome partner for it. it isn't that notable for stopping kingdra, but the reasons you mentioned aren't why it isn't your best option.

now...the case for critdra. first some statistics:
Abilities | | Sniper 72.764%
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Items | | Scope Lens 66.113%
Click to expand...
Moves | | Draco Meteor 80.214% | | Focus Energy 70.374%
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So, look. We see Focus Energy Kingdra at 70% of all Kingdra. This alone shows how prominent of a set this is. While usage statistics do not prove a point, it sure as hell means a lot when 7/10 Kingdra you face will be the Focus Energy variant.

Critdra is not as bad as any of you are making it out to be. The severe disregard for how effective a crit is, that is insane. 1.5x damage. Any Pokemon would kill for that. You hit through any and all boosts, too. I could throw you a list of calcs if you want to show the million and a half things a crit helps you against but I think you have an understanding of what the implications of a crit are.

Kingdra has few issues with its base 85 Speed, tbh. Very little besides Dragon- and Fairy-type attacks that isn't regarded as a massively strong attack can KO Kingdra, while with the aid of a crit it can rest assured put foes to rest. Also, you'll see that Scolipede is one of its most common teammates at 3.063% usage. Galvantula sees 1.852%, and Smeargle 1.286%. These are pretty significant statistics considering the wide array of plausible teammates. Anyways, this is for a reason! With either BP-boosted Speed (plus a possible Sub) or Sticky Web support, Kingdra will be faster than the majority of the opposition. Even though you'd be fine without either, these great forms of support enable you to entirely overcome any Speed issue.

Simply, that one-turn hit is so valuable in addition to the fact that you can set up more than once and get more crits leads me to believe that such a prominent Kingdra variant deserves a set.
 
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