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How do you kill this? Rhyperior Discussion.
- Thread starter ADH
- Start date
uh read the thread please:
"A counter must be able to both switch in with little to no risk to itself and pose an immediate threat to the pokemon it's supposed to counter."
If it's going to outspeed Adamant max speed CB Rhyperior it needs 96 Speed EVs to reach 180 Speed, meaning its HP will max at 160 EVs, or 371HP (taking from HP not def to maximize its physical defensive abilities). But it also needs 235 SpA to guarantee a OHKO on 273HP/146SpD Rhyperior with Grass Rope, which takes an additional 116 EVs, resulting in 342HP instead. Therefore:
Adamant, 416 Attack Rhyperior's Choice Banded Earthquake on a Bold 342HP/269Def (near-min/max) Clefable: 73-86%
Don't assume Swords Dance — that's not really the set that should be feared the most when Garchomp basically does that a little better.
"A counter must be able to both switch in with little to no risk to itself and pose an immediate threat to the pokemon it's supposed to counter."
If it's going to outspeed Adamant max speed CB Rhyperior it needs 96 Speed EVs to reach 180 Speed, meaning its HP will max at 160 EVs, or 371HP (taking from HP not def to maximize its physical defensive abilities). But it also needs 235 SpA to guarantee a OHKO on 273HP/146SpD Rhyperior with Grass Rope, which takes an additional 116 EVs, resulting in 342HP instead. Therefore:
Adamant, 416 Attack Rhyperior's Choice Banded Earthquake on a Bold 342HP/269Def (near-min/max) Clefable: 73-86%
Don't assume Swords Dance — that's not really the set that should be feared the most when Garchomp basically does that a little better.
Didn't we disprove Magic Guard as auto-taunt a while ago? And GL with Clefable there, if you give it the SA required to OHKO with Grass Rope, it can't EVER switch in on Earthquake or Stone Edge. The EV Spread I intend to use is 120 HP/212 Atk/176 SD. This gives me 401 HP/296 Def/190 SD and combined with Hard Rock makes Rhyperior one tough mofo to kill. Naturally it can be tweaked around a little, but Rhyperior with some SD is damned godly, it can switch into unSTABBed Ice Beams for a while.
1. It would need to invest in speed EVs and take away from its defenses to actually outspeed the discussed Choice Band EV spread.
2. It is weak to Megahorn.
3. It is weak to Ice Fang, which I personally would carry (that or Snow Slide) to hit Gliscor, who, in a sandstorm, otherwise walls him pretty well.
4. It can't do much of anything back to Rhyperior, Earthquake doesn't do a whole lot to him when you do a defensive spread to take the hits from it.
On the subject of Pokemon who would work well with Rhyperior, I think Tangrowth could be good since it takes the main threats to Rhyperior very easily in Surf and Grass Rope / HP Grass.
So basically I'm going to pass Agility to this. I'm not even going to bother with 198 Speed, I just need enough for most Starmie, because everything above that isn't going to kill me but I am going to kill them in one hit (at least, I think so). Plus with Adherance Scarf, magic numbers mean only less.
The question is, who is going to pass Speed to him? Jolteon seems a fine candidate, despite the shared Earthquake weakness. If he draws out Blissey or Snorlax all the better. Regice is problematic but will rarely be seen. They're likely to play it safe with these early on, as risking Swampert/Gachomp is risking a wrong Hidden Power.
Zapdos shares an Ice-weakness with him but works for the same reasons Jolteon does. Ninjask is likely to get Skarmoried/Weezunged to hell, I suppose Thief Ninjask with Jibacoil support is a nice idea for that!
Passing subs with these could be hot as well.
The question is, who is going to pass Speed to him? Jolteon seems a fine candidate, despite the shared Earthquake weakness. If he draws out Blissey or Snorlax all the better. Regice is problematic but will rarely be seen. They're likely to play it safe with these early on, as risking Swampert/Gachomp is risking a wrong Hidden Power.
Zapdos shares an Ice-weakness with him but works for the same reasons Jolteon does. Ninjask is likely to get Skarmoried/Weezunged to hell, I suppose Thief Ninjask with Jibacoil support is a nice idea for that!
Passing subs with these could be hot as well.
why would anyone be using absolutly max attack of 416 anyway
Jolteon can switch into TWaves and take them for the rest of the team, if that helps, but Zapdos is the more sturdy of them and is immune to that always-present Earthquake (eats Stone Edge though). I personally prefer Zapdos for my agilipassing needs, although if you don't mind the 4x weak to ice and 2x to water then Gliscor could BP Rock Carts to it. That's adding a lot of weaknesses to the team between the two, though.
Was this so dumb, that it didn't even needed to be disproved or was it just overlooked or something?
Let's not forget the possibility of Trick Room.
A Rhyperior under Trick Room can switch in when something dies, Swords Dance up and possibly survive with Hard Rock then just proceed to rape. Trick Room then should last 2-3 turns, killing 2-3 Pokemon is pretty good by my standards.
A Rhyperior under Trick Room can switch in when something dies, Swords Dance up and possibly survive with Hard Rock then just proceed to rape. Trick Room then should last 2-3 turns, killing 2-3 Pokemon is pretty good by my standards.
Bronzong doesn't resist bug
why not? on CB pokemon it's never a bad idea, and especially on Rhyperior if you don't want to max speed
also lol I forgot about Ice Fang as the obvious fourth move on CB Rhyperior, that kind of takes Gliscor and Flygon's stock down since to max/max 354HP/372Def Gliscor a 416Atk CBed Ice Fang does 90-106%
since he's getting hit half the time anyway why not use Snow Slide?
What about switching something in on a predicted move that can will-o-wisp it and then switching in cune or some other bulky water? Like say if it's going to use eq, switch Gengar in, will-o-wisp, which will hopefully let it survive, and then switch out to cune? I haven't really looked at any numbers for this but it was a thought I just had reading the thread...
EDIT: dusknoir might be a viable will-o-wisper as it does have higher base speed and that crazy high def.
EDIT: dusknoir might be a viable will-o-wisper as it does have higher base speed and that crazy high def.
If anything, I would actually rather use Snow Slide because its effective base power is 60, whereas Ice Fangs is 61.75 when you account for the accuracy. The issues here are twofold — most of the time when I want to actually use Ice Fang, it's because I feel my opponent is switching out to, by definition, a Levitating or Flying type pokemon that does not take Super Effective damage from Rock Slide or Megahorn (and Earthquake obviously). That leaves us with Gliscor and Flygon, pretty much, since I'd want to use Megahorn on stuff like Claydol and Torterra.
The second issue is that I'm not sure I care about a 10% chance of freezing enough to want Ice Fang, but this is more an ingame issue and I already told Roy who I'm trading with that Rhyperior didn't require any egg moves and he's already gotten a "Wonderfully outstanding!" one to work with lol =/ (Ice Fang is a breeding move and Snow Slide is a TM)
will never work in a million years, why would Rhyperior stay in after whiffing with EQ? and max/max 294Hp/405Def Dusknoir takes 57-67% from a 416Atk CBed EQ/SE, and its base speed is only higher by five points so you'd really be stretching its defensive capabilities by pouring almost all of them into Speed instead to get above CB Rhy's max 179 Speed guaranteed
Also, Just becouse its a slow fucker dosnt mean he cant sweep your ass.
with Rock Cart, only Aerodactyl, Jolteon and Crobat outspeed him.
CB'd Adamant Aerodactyl w Earthquake does a maximum damage of 194 to MINIMUM defence Rhyperior
Crobat cant do shit to Rhy. (well, maybe confuse ray but thats gay)
Jolteon HP Grass 1HKO's Rhyperior, but then again, how often do you see a Jolteon lategame in D/P ?
Everything slower is just chow' for our fat rock ass friend Rhy.
with Rock Cart, only Aerodactyl, Jolteon and Crobat outspeed him.
CB'd Adamant Aerodactyl w Earthquake does a maximum damage of 194 to MINIMUM defence Rhyperior
Crobat cant do shit to Rhy. (well, maybe confuse ray but thats gay)
Jolteon HP Grass 1HKO's Rhyperior, but then again, how often do you see a Jolteon lategame in D/P ?
Everything slower is just chow' for our fat rock ass friend Rhy.