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Honchkrow discussion
- Thread starter Demoness
- Start date
It actually is quite useful as it can force mind games, and of course a strong priority attack will always be great XD. It also does help in picking off weakened mons - most are easy picking off an unboosted sucker punch after SR damage (usually bugs). I think sucker punch is better with sub as it tends so as to ease the prediction.
Idk, thats a lot of life loss for a pokemon that isn't built for such abuse. Rocks hurt him decently, and Life Orb + Brave Bird is a recipe for disaster. If history tells us anything, that type of set up is for a strict revenge killer type role (ie Staraptor)
I do love SubSucker though. I think maybe Leftovers might do you better, just because of all of the other damage. But, I haven't playtested it. If getting him in AND getting the sub is easy enough, I could see that set wrecking faces.
I do love SubSucker though. I think maybe Leftovers might do you better, just because of all of the other damage. But, I haven't playtested it. If getting him in AND getting the sub is easy enough, I could see that set wrecking faces.
Yeah, I can see that. What would the rest be, Substitute / Sucker Punch / Night Slash / Brave Bird? Or Roost in place of Night Slash maybe?
I've already posted my Moxiekrow set earlier just check the posts at page 1 but yeah Sub/Sucker/Brave Bird/Roost @ Leftovers. Also sucker punch helps since Honchkrow doesn't exactly have the best of speeds in this gen of UU so it'll help net you kills against the faster attackers who could easily OHKO you, e.g. Mismagius & Azelf (who most likely carry a thunderbolt from my experience). While Roost & left overs help with longevity due to Brave Bird recoil, and if sucker punch fails least you're still recovering health. Sub helps to keep out status against slower inflicters, e.g. Dusclops or Noir, as well as goad attacks for Sucker Punch to succeed.
Edit: On a sidenote I don't really bother using night slash sure its a more reliable dark STAB but given the psychics and ghosts running around in UU (also tend to be faster than Krow) most are already OHKOed by sucker punch, Cresselia being the exception but she's not as common and can be taken down by BB while Dusc can't do much to you except try to break your sub so as to WoW you but since you outspeed him you can BB or Sucker Punch first as he destroys your sub then BB to KO.
Steels or Rhyperior are pretty much Moxiekrows (it loses both coverage moves that is a Gen 4 move tutor exclusive when opting to run Moxie) problem though I doubt ANY smart player would bother using Sucker Punch on a mon that not only gets a boost from dark but x4 resists the move. Chances are if you're lucky enough to be behind a sub you'd be using Brave Bird and hopefully hit him on the switch or Brave Bird as Cobalion attempts to set up then proceed to switch out to an appropriate check or counter. Brave bird should still leave a pretty good dent on Cobalion, even better if its a LO variant since you've reduced its sweeping capacity. Cobalion may force you out but at least he's not as bulky as most steel types you should even bother attacking, e.g. Registeel or Steelix.
Cobalion isn't a problem for SubSucker if he comes in when you have a sub up, as Brave Bird is a 2HKO and Cobalion can't OHKO with Iron Head even after Sub HP loss.
End result, you take out what is probably their only Dark resist and get +1 Attack.
I am in love with SubSucker MoxieKrow as it has gotten me so many kills. There's nothing so satisfying than getting to +1 or +2 and realising their next 4 pokemon are Gonna go down.
Dark is also a good STAB as Steels are quite rare in UU and Fighting types are weak to BB.
I've been running this set:
Adamant
Leftovers
252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defence
Substitute
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Pursuit
You don't really need Roost with Leftovers. Also I wouldn't have many chances to Roost what with Honch being frail and needing to have a Sub up in order to avoid Sucker Punch fail/mind games.
If you Roost instead of SuckerPunching, you risk losing your Sub and then being unable to Sucker with impunity. The opponent can Sub themselves or boost or status you while you waste your precious 8PP, or if you decide to Sub again they can outspeed and attack and ruin your Moxiesweep.
Why Pursuit not Night Slash? Well if you switch in on a Psychic or Ghost, they'll either status, Sub or switch out as they always expect a Sucker. If you think they'll status, Sub up! If you think they'll switch, Pursuit! Night Slash doesn't allow trapping the Dark-weaks so it's harder to get that first KO, and Brave Bird is much more useful if you want raw power.
So, once you seize your chance to Sub up and get a KO, it's just a matter of spamming Sucker/BB to chew through their team like paper.
Of course, Sturdy/bulky/resisting pokes have to be taken out or weakened for this to work but due to the large number of slow status users, low numbers of Dark/Flying resists, large number of Psychics and frail sweepers, and the general unpreparedness of most teams for Moxie, I would say Moxiesweeping is the strongest use for Honch.
End result, you take out what is probably their only Dark resist and get +1 Attack.
I am in love with SubSucker MoxieKrow as it has gotten me so many kills. There's nothing so satisfying than getting to +1 or +2 and realising their next 4 pokemon are Gonna go down.
Dark is also a good STAB as Steels are quite rare in UU and Fighting types are weak to BB.
I've been running this set:
Adamant
Leftovers
252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defence
Substitute
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Pursuit
You don't really need Roost with Leftovers. Also I wouldn't have many chances to Roost what with Honch being frail and needing to have a Sub up in order to avoid Sucker Punch fail/mind games.
If you Roost instead of SuckerPunching, you risk losing your Sub and then being unable to Sucker with impunity. The opponent can Sub themselves or boost or status you while you waste your precious 8PP, or if you decide to Sub again they can outspeed and attack and ruin your Moxiesweep.
Why Pursuit not Night Slash? Well if you switch in on a Psychic or Ghost, they'll either status, Sub or switch out as they always expect a Sucker. If you think they'll status, Sub up! If you think they'll switch, Pursuit! Night Slash doesn't allow trapping the Dark-weaks so it's harder to get that first KO, and Brave Bird is much more useful if you want raw power.
So, once you seize your chance to Sub up and get a KO, it's just a matter of spamming Sucker/BB to chew through their team like paper.
Of course, Sturdy/bulky/resisting pokes have to be taken out or weakened for this to work but due to the large number of slow status users, low numbers of Dark/Flying resists, large number of Psychics and frail sweepers, and the general unpreparedness of most teams for Moxie, I would say Moxiesweeping is the strongest use for Honch.
I just wanted Honch as bulky as possible since I only ever Brave Bird from behind a Sub, and Sucker Punch has priority anyway.
If you think a better spread would be to invest in defences let me know, but since HP investment means more leftovers recovery, I think it's the best use of EVs.
If you think a better spread would be to invest in defences let me know, but since HP investment means more leftovers recovery, I think it's the best use of EVs.
So, in the whirlwind of new information and excitement over which monsters get what moves, we have received a rather lovely confirmation: Honchkrow can now use Superpower and Heat Wave (thanks to tutors) with Moxie. The question is what is the most effective way to make use of this? Moxie has proven really useful on the SubRoost set. MixKrow was pretty good with Moxie too, but the lack of an answer to Steels and Rocks (outside HP) was painful. Old-school Insomnia Honchkrow still worked fine as a mixed wallbreaker.
I'm just wondering what's the most effective way to combine the returning powerful coverage movies with the delicious snowballing-assault that Moxie can provide.
I'm just wondering what's the most effective way to combine the returning powerful coverage movies with the delicious snowballing-assault that Moxie can provide.
Moxie > Insomnia. Moxie allows for more +1's and allows Honch to be a potential sweeper.
To be fair, that post is over a year old, and came before people caught on to the whole SubRoost Moxie set and the overall usefulness of the ability.
Dark Gem sounds interesting, but I think I'm leaning towards a modified MixKrow, probably with Life Orb. I think trying to incorporate Superpower and/or Heat Wave into the SubRoost build is a little tricky. You'd have to forgo Sucker Punch or Brave Bird... On the other hand:
MixMoxie
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Naughty
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Superpower
Heat Wave/Roost/Pursuit
Or any combination of those seems like it could be pretty potent. I think of the two, Superpower gets the nod over Heat Wave since it works off the Attack stat and provides an answer to Rocks in addition to Steels. Plus, if you manage to score a kill, the Attack drop gets negated, resulting in only -1 Defense. Heat Wave is definitely useful though, and might give Honchkrow some usability in OU since it can handle Ferrothorn and friends. Roost is nice, but I can't help wonder if he's too frail and slow to rely on it without Sub. Always an option, though. I'm also a BIG fan of Pursuit, since it can nail weakened Pokemon as they try to retreat, making Honchkrow able to revenge kill and nab a free Moxie boost.
Interesting. Shadow Tag Gothitelle will also be released in August...
So Honchkrow jumped up by 15 spots in the usage stats for this month. Not too bad, but I was expecting a bit more. I figured being able to use Superpower and/or Heat Wave in conjunction with Moxie would present a bigger draw. It certainly makes MixMoxie a much scarier contender.
I've been using Substitute without Roost to decent success.
Honchkrow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
Posted this in the Creative (and good) Movesets thread a few days ago. I know, a little slow, and someone did bring up the excellent point of 100 damage moves being virtually nonexistent in UU, but I feel like 101 HP Subs in general is good and I think we can all agree on the usefulness Subs provide in drawing out attacks so we can let loose with Sucker Punch. But seriously, fuck Roar Swampert.
Honchkrow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
Posted this in the Creative (and good) Movesets thread a few days ago. I know, a little slow, and someone did bring up the excellent point of 100 damage moves being virtually nonexistent in UU, but I feel like 101 HP Subs in general is good and I think we can all agree on the usefulness Subs provide in drawing out attacks so we can let loose with Sucker Punch. But seriously, fuck Roar Swampert.
I don't play UU at all. Is a version of Honchkrow with Moxie, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, Heatwave and Sucker Punch viable here? It's kind of cool that it can double its decent SpA in one turn while raising its attack everytime it gets a KO. I bet boosted Sucker Punches could still be made to hit pretty hard even on a mixed set.
Eh it doesn't really do anything the normal sets can't, except OHKO Bronzong and Registeel, and the latter isn't that common. With all the power Honchkrow has, it has better ways to fill a turn and moveslot than nasty plot.
Bold Suicune takes two Adamant life orb brave birds and rests up. Sableye can burn it and recover off damage or pass it off to something else. Bronzong can always weaken it to take care of later, and rocks+phazing will kill it off soon enough. My stall team hasn't had any problems with it.