ORAS Ubers Ho-Oh Balance

Yo guys, welcome to my first ubers rmt, featuring Ho-Oh. Since I have Omega Ruby (the best game of Gen 6) I really wanted to build something that could work around Ho-Oh and let it shine, giving me an excuse to start soft resetting for it. So let's get right into it!

(Listen to this, it's super chill) And will stop you flaming at my mon choice

The team at a glance:

ho-oh.gif
klefki.gif
groudon.gif
latios.gif
aegislash.gif
kangaskhan-mega.gif


I started with Ho-Oh, since I knew it was mon I wanted to build my team around. I then looked at counters to Ho-Oh: I saw large rock, electric and water counters. Klefki soaks up rock and electric, provides hazard control and lets me spread T-waves, and Groudon soaks fire aimed at Klef while also countering water with his ability, relying on Ho-Oh and Latios to soak up ground attacks fired at Groudon. Hazard control is paramount with a fire/flying type, and soul dew isn't banned in ubers why isn't it banned, so Latios was the obvious choice for hazard removal, giving me dragon stabs too. Swords dance Aegislash gives me pursuit trapping, a great check to fairies with a ridic slow gyro ball and a win-con with his dumb ass ability. Finally, I needed a mega: Since I was so busy building with Ho-Oh, and rejoicing that I can use soul dew, I forgot about megas. This left me with two choices, both of which utilise fighting since I need a way to break through normal walls and it helps against P-Ogre: Either Mewtwo-X or Kanghastan, and in the end I settled for Kangy, though I'm completely open to a new mega choice if a better one comes along.

The team:

ho-oh.gif


Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Recover
- Earthquake

Choice band Ho-Oh is ridiculous. I normally hate locking things into bands, but this guy's power is no joke: an effective 591 attack with 2 100 and a 120 BP moveset is ridiculous, and with considerable bulk and access to recovery, he really starts to dent teams. He scores important KOs on enemy teams such as Mega Scizor, Mega Lucario, Mega Blaziken, Mega Sceptile (if he's even used, idk) he even ohkos a Bold 252/252 Def Klefki, and ohkos Skarmory after SR. To give you an idea of his power, he 2hkos a fully defensive Mega Steelix (who has 500+ defenece). I'm unsure about the band, though; while it has ridiculous damage, Ho-Oh is pretty fragile since he's slow, and if he recovers he has to switch out. Still, with some decent tanks it shouldn't be too much of an issue. I went 248 HP / 252 Att to get max damage and max bulk when you factor in his really decent defences. Standard moveset too, BB and SF for stabs, EQ for coverage, and Recover for the chance to recover. Considiering changing the set to life orb to maximise recover chance, and i only lose 0.2x the damage from the switch.

klefki.gif


Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Foul Play

Klefki may look odd on a balance team, and though it does sap momentum, this team isn't focused so much on momentum like a HO team is; rather, this team is about wearing down the checks to allow my boosted mons to sweep up, or just to dominate with predictions. To that end, Klef keeps rocks off my Ho-Oh, such as stone edge Groundon, T-tar and Garchomp, and if it's not ground type can respond with T-wave and set up spikes. His defensives feats are really pretty spectacular, too, as it survives the ohko from a CB Ho-Oh. If Klekfi doesn't look like he's going to fit on the team and there's a better replacement, I need something that can resist rocks, as Stone Edge P-Don is really common and will completely end my Ho-Oh.

groudon.gif


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Thunder Wave/ Rock Slide

Obviously, what team isn't complete without Groudon, especially when I have a copy of Omega Ruby. I went with specially defensive on P-Don since I'll be using him to switch into a lot of water and electric attacks aimed at the team, and it goes with my fully defensive dedicated tank. Even fully defensive it still has enough damage to 2hko P-Ogre after SR damage, and also nets important KOs like Mega Blaziken (this is important since it's typing lets it set up and sweep 3 of my members), and with 2 non contact moves it can also threaten Aegislash, though it has to be careful of toxic damage. It can also threaten out Genesect, which is pretty nice for the team. Standard moveset and EVs for max bulk; EQ and Lava Plume for non contact STABS and burn chance, SR for the chance to set it up as P-Don is the most reliable non suicide SR setter, and T-Wave because utility, although rock slide is an option to let me hit opposing Ho-Ohs and Rayquazas.

latios.gif


Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt / Psyshock

With soul dew, Latios gets 539 SpAtk and 384 SpDef, which makes him a ridiculous wallbreaker when you factor in his decent speed stat and super strong stabs. Because of his decent speed, he's faster than non scarf variants of most dragons in the Uber tier, including Giratina, Palkia, Dialga, Kyurem-White and Kyurem-Black, Zekrom, Reshiram, Mega Salamance pre D-Dance and Rayquaza, falling just shy of outspeeding Mega Ray. Because of this, it's absolute key for Draco Meteor to hit, since most of the legendaries running in Ubers have higher base stats in defences than those in OU, and Dragon Pulse just won't cut it. Saying that, if I'm using the damage calculator right and putting a +1 next to SpAtk for soul dew, it looks like dragon pulse actually has the kick to kill everything except SpDef Dialga, which is far more reliable that Meteor and doesn't drop my SpAtk. Aside from being a dragon killer and general nuisance, it's my defogger, since keeping hazards off the field is paramount for this team. Standard moveset and EVs for an offensive defogger set, running T-Bolt for bulky water types that might switch in.

aegislash.gif


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Pursuit
- Shadow Claw / King's Shield
- Gyro Ball / Iron head

My late game sweeper, pursuit trapper and ghost counter. Originally I had him fully HP and Sp.Def trained, but after realising I can tank a Mega Gengar shadow ball with my base defences in shield forme, the added boost to attack lets me ohko with Shadow Claw, whereas before with no attack investment it hit 98% health. Gyro ball is there because Aeigslash is bare slow, and it hits fairies so hard with Aegi's base stats in attack. Saying that, because I'm running swords dance, would it be worth using iron head instead, since that's physical and can get boosted? Pursuit trapping is fun, and while I won't be able to trap Mega Gengar, opting to use Shadow Claw instead, I can lure in and trap opposing Lati@s. What I love about Aegi is since his ability only changes stance for attacking, he can Swords dance to set up while in shield forme. I just realised I'd made a blunder and left King's Shield off the set don't hate me, what move should I drop for this?

kangaskhan-mega.gif


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Sucker Punch

As I said, I'd got to the end of my team and realised I'd left out my mega, and so slapped on Mega Kankhasgan. It was a choice between Mega Mewtwo-X and this, since I liked to have some form of fighting damage of the team, but I might go with Mewtwo since I get speed control then. Still, Khangy has done OK for me, and can set-up and do decent damage, but I really had no idea who to put in this slot, so any help here would be appreciated!

Conclusion:

I think the team is OK as it stands, but I need a few things clearing up:

  • Choice band or Life Orb for Ho-Oh, bearing in mind I can't get regenerator on my copy of Ruby, so recover is paramount.
  • A replacement for Klekfi. Though it's doing OK, it does sap momentum and I don't particularly need the spikes. Preferably it will be able to resist rock and hit dragons, so a fairy replacement would be nice.
  • A move for Aegislash that can be dropped for King's Shield
  • A new mega suggestion, one that really benefits the team. Mewtwo-X is still in my head for speed control and massive attack stat, but I'll leave that one up to you guys.
This seems like a half-arsed attempt at a team, but these were only minor problems I picked up on while writing the post. I'm very new to ubers, so this team is probably complete shite, but I'll leave that to you raters to tell me what's what. Please help me pull this team together, as I really want to see Ho-Oh shine in PVP battles.

Peace!
 
Hey Shadowball, your team needs some optimization on certain sets and would benefit from having a couple Pokemon replaced. First, Ho-Oh needs to have Regenerator, and as you can probably already tell, running Recover on a Choice item Pokemon is awful. If you want to run a recovery move on Ho-Oh but still want to retain some power then you should run the Life Orb set, but either way it should have Regenerator. Because this team only has one other Darkrai check in Klekfi, you should run Sleep Talk with Choice Band. The EV spread should also be slightly tweaked; consider running Speed creep (perhaps something like 76) or investing a bit more in Special Defense for additional insurance against Xerneas and Thunder Darkrai. Second, Klefki should have maximum Special Defense investment, not Defense investment. Many physical Pokemon will be able to rip through Klefki with strong Ground-type moves regardless of how much Defense it has, so you're much better off investing in SpD to check threats such as Fairies, Lati, etc. Klefki should also be running Play Rough rather than Foul Play, as you won't really want to be staying in against physical attackers and want a better way of hitting Fairy- and Dark-types. Even Dazzling Gleam is a better option than Foul Play which is used to hit Mega Sableye. Third, under no circumstances should Latios be running Thunderbolt in ORAS Ubers. Grass Knot is a much better move if you want to run special coverage as it hits Primal Kyogre much harder, and hits Tyranitar along with a few other miscellaneous threats. Meanwhile Psyshock is a secondary STAB move that rips through Blissey and hits threats such as Primal Kyogre and Ho-Oh decently. Either Grass Knot or Psyshock, not Thunderbolt.

As of now the team lacks a good method of dealing with Extreme Killer Arceus, so I would recommend replacing Aegislash for Giratina-O, which not only covers this threat, but adds anther Ground immunity, adds another Water resist, adds priority, and retains a Ghost-type. The set you should run is Defog / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Earthquake and 244 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe / Adamant. Mega Kangaskhan should also be replaced for an Arceus forme. I'm leaning more towards Rock as the team has some troubles with Ho-Oh and Mega Salamence, is a soft check against EKiller, and is supported by some good Ground immunities. You can also try Arceus Water which is still solid against Ho-Oh and Mega Salamence, and is able to check Ground-types while being less weak to P Ogre. The Arceus Rock set would be Calm Mind / Will-O-Wisp / Recover / Judgment with 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe / Timid and the Arceus Water set would be Toxic / Recover / Ice Beam / Judgment with 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe / Bold (possible to run more Speed creep). You could also potentially run Mega Salamence (decent against Ho-Oh and can check opposing Mega Mence and EKiller) and then drop something else, probably Ho-Oh for your Arc forme, but I didn't go this direction because it requires more changes and sees Ho-Oh get dropped (what you're building around).

Summary:
- Ho-Oh's ability should always be Regenerator, run Sleep Talk over Recover and consider running Speed creep or additional SpD
- Klefki should be max SpD with Play Rough, or you can run Dazzling Gleam for Mega Sableye (run a Calm nature with 88 SpA in that case)
- Latios should have Psyshock or Grass Knot, Defog is currently allocated to Gira-O so you are free to run Calm Mind
- Change Aegislash to Giratina-O with Defog / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Earthquake and 244 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe / Adamant
- If you would rather have Defog on Latios, Gira-O can run something like Will-O-Wisp in the last slot instead
- Change Mega Kangaskhan to Arceus Rock with Calm Mind / Will-O-Wisp / Recover / Judgment and 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe / Timid or to Arceus Water with Toxic / Recover / Ice Beam / Judgment and 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe / Bold

Those changes largely optimize your current sets, offer better support for Ho-Oh, and cover some weaknesses this team had such as Ho-Oh, EKiller, and Mega Salamence. Good luck.
 
Thanks so much for your reply, it's really helped out. I'm gonna break it down and go through it:

  • Firstly, I'm building this on Omega Ruby and as such I can't get access to Ho-Oh's hidden ability.
  • I like the dazzling gleam Sp Def Klef. I was worried Klef was too passive for this team - does he fit onto balanced teams well? Also, if I'm going SpDef Klef what should my Groudon spread be? also Sp Def still?
  • Im gonna go with psyshock Latios still with calm mind - I can't get soul dew on my copy, so calm min + dragon pulse is far safer than meteor and gives me a win-con.
  • I love the idea of Giratina, I was looking at it the other day, and a defog defensive set will really help me out. You'd go shadow sneak > Phantom force? Also, with this set and a calm mind Lati I can go through Darkrai, especially if I offer someone else up to be alseep. However, this gives me 2 dragons and no decent fairy counter - no-one really running steel.
  • Finally, I can't get Arceus at all, full stop. What would you then recommend to fit into this last slot? Perhaps a mega that can dish out steel moves? Maybe Mega Meta? Gives me another speedy mon, too, and with 2 levitators and a couple of water and fire soaks (Groundon and Gira) I could probably viably run it, rounding off my fairy pressure? Perhaps Lucario or swords dance Scizor mega?
Again, thanks for the rate! Also, if you feel there's a better mon than ho-Oh for this team, since it can't learn Regen, feel free to suggest it, it was just a nice thought since that was my game legendary.
 
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To answer your questions, yes Klefki fits on balance teams. Groudon can be kept as SpD (the standard support set of 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD / Relaxed still works) and you may also want to look at more offensive spreads that still check Xern. Yes Gira-O runs Shadow Sneak over Phantom Force, and Phantom Force is outclassed by Shadow Force anyways.

In regards to the whole "I can't get mon or ability or move X in my in-game copy" I rated this team with the mindset of make it as solid as possible without changing its identity. The fact is that if your team doesn't have Regen Ho-Oh, doesn't have an Arceus, and doesn't have all the tools it wants available to it, it will never be as good of a team as it should be.
 
Yeah I fully appreciate the rate, and wasn't trying to shit on your rate or anything, was just wondering what you think could fit into the team should I decide to build it on Ruby. The only two mons I can't use is Arceus, and I COULD run Ho-oh but I'd life orb/recover that one, as if I'm playing it on wifi I doubt I'd come across mad strong teams with decent strategies, so I think a life orb set could still work. It's that 6th slot I'm having trouble with: Should I run a damaeg-y mega or maybe a healing wish mon to support Ho-Oh. I appreciate the rate, it's helped me a lot in terms of getting to grips with ubers and team comps, but I'm asking you to go against standard rating techniques and offer an alternative to Arceus for 6th, bearing in mind I have access to every legendary/mega that's currently in the game
 
The team is becomes more unstable if you slap something on that isn't Arc Water or Arc Rock as you need something defensive that provides an additional check to Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, and something soft for EKiller. Mega Salamence, Shuca Tyranitar, and Shuca Zekrom can do this somewhat, but the team is overall worse off than if you had one of the previously mentioned Arceus.
 
Mega Lucario resists every form of Salamence's attacks, can run ice punch to ruin his day, has access to priority steel and swords dance for fairy checks, while I can slap rock slide on Groudon to mess up Ho-Oh. As I said I'll be doing a lot of pvp battles with this team rather than showdown battles so i won't run into an arceus, like, at all, and the only prominent E-killers besides him are Dragonite and another Lucario. I'm thinking Lucario or Metagross for this reason, as MegaGross can ohko M-salamence and D-nite with rocks up to break multiscale while they fail to get the ohko on me with earthquake, and I can wear down Mega Salamence with Klef anyway.
 
Mega Salamence is a far better addition than either Mega Luke or Gross, the first of which is somewhat redundant with Klefki and makes this team far too weak to the things that slot needed to cover. Mega Metagross is hard to justify to begin with and has similar problems.
 
The only thing with that is the team now has 3 dragons, 2 of which have win-cons :/ sorry dude, I feel bad because you can't suggest conventional things anymore, but I wanna thank you for the help you've provided for this team!
 
Bump. Sorry to be bumping, but I want this cleared up as I'm currently facing Groudon again on Ruby and need to know his preferred nature: Because I suck and can't get Arceus, should I run T-tar in the last slot? I'm not so mad on sandstorm damage but oh well. He can run stealth rock and can pursuit trap, so this frees up SR on my groudon set; should I keep it defensive and relaxed but maybe put swords dance/rock polish on it? Or keep it as it is and use a more offensive T-tar build?
 
Hey there, there is not much to change at all, but I suggest you to run Arceus Water instead of Aegislash, because you are pretty weak to Ho-Oh and Waterceus gives you one of the best checks to it. In addition I would rate you to use Ice Punch on Kangashkan, which allows you to hit Giratina-O and Lugia really hard. Like I said there is not much to change, cool team. :)

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Toxic / Wisp / Ice Beam
- Defog
 
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