Move Healing Wish & Lunar Dance

[escarlata]

Healing Wish & Lunar Dance
The user faints. In return, the Pokémon taking its place will have its status and HP fully restored.

While Lunar Dance and Healing Wish has effectively been out ever since Gen IV, Gen VI had gifted us with something that makes these 2 moves more viable than ever, in the form of Mega Evolution. Another significant change in the way the metagame has changed is that there are way more status flying around than ever (which is why Healing Wish > Wish in certain cases)especially priority ones, and ones from bulky Pokemon such as Gourgeist and Trevenant, to hinder a early set-up sweep.

The role in which Healing Wish plays in this new metagame is that if effectively turns one of your non-sweepers into a sweeper at the cost of itself. With the limitation of 1 Mega per team, Healing Wish alone gives you a huge innate advantage by essentially exchanging one of your non-Megas for a Mega.

Notable users:

Key benefitors:

• Mega
• Everything else

Sample Movesets:

Latias @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
- HP Fire
- Roost
- Healing Wish

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch
- Trick
- Healing Wish

Cresselia @ Light Clay
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 24 SpD / 232 Spe
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Moonblast/Thunder Wave
- Lunar Dance

Gardevoir @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Healing Wish

Just pair one of these with any Sweeper with your choice and have fun

Discuss the viability of these 2 moves in this Metagame

 

[sidakarya]

I remember how hilariously broken M-Khan with three Healing Wish mons was. Good times.

Actually even now, I find Healing Wish very useful overall. With status moves and hyperspeed-offence being everywhere, it's quite helpful to at once heal a key Pokémon (especially a mega!) of health and status. Currently using a Latias with M-Mawile and Dragonite, and when Latias is fast done for, she can just use Healing Wish to make the opponent face one of those two terrifying sweepers for a second time. It's so great.

 

[escarlata]

My favorite thing about Healing Wish is that it means you don't have to wait until all counters before your win condition can come in.
Here's a replay of how proper use of Healing Wish can win you games:

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-70214089

 

[November Blue]

I've long thought that this move is an incredibly potent tool that was criminally underused because of its obscurity and limited learnbase. The fact that you have to have a "Healing Wish mon" rather than a tank that just has Healing Wish limits the move severely. I mean, can you really just throw the move on a standard Latias set?

Dragon Pulse
Defog
Roost
Healing Wish

What does this Latias do? Mono Dragon STAB is okay if invested, but nothing too threatening.

 

[escarlata]

I've long thought that this move is an incredibly potent tool that was criminally underused because of its obscurity and limited learnbase. The fact that you have to have a "Healing Wish mon" rather than a tank that just has Healing Wish limits the move severely. I mean, can you really just throw the move on a standard Latias set?

Dragon Pulse
Defog
Roost
Healing Wish

What does this Latias do? Mono Dragon STAB is okay if invested, but nothing too threatening.

You are trying to have Latias do too many things at once. I would rather drop Roost for HP Fire, and just gtfo with Healing Wish as long as I have done what is needed to be done with it.

 

[Jaroda]

Hmm, well Shaymin, Celebi and Jirachi at least are in the 100 Speed tier. Celebi has Natural Cure, Thunder Wave and U-Turn making it pretty savvy overall in utility being a status absorber and scout. Shaymin has Seed Flare which is still really strong and the SpD drop it causes can be devastating. With a scarf it could be a could revenge killer and more likely get a Healing Wish off in the end thanks to the improved speed. I think the pokemon that can learn normal Wish could better utilize than than Healing Wish. Latias as fast as it is has no trouble healing herself or others with Wish and Protect. It seems an odd choice on Mesprit, but a Scarf with Trick, Knock Off, U-Turn/Stealth Rock and Healing Wish could be useful, but I think I'd rather just use Celebi.

 

[SansNickel]

I used to run healing wish on my TR jirachi, and I'd always have enough bulk to take a hit to set up TR, then be "faster", then fully heal one of my abusers. It was beautiful :')
But yeah otherwise, lunar dance cresselia might see some use with Charizard Y, and for me I'd run healing wish on scarf jirachi, so it can dual as a revenge killer.

 

[Always!]

I always remember thinking about moves like Healing Wish, and thinking how useful it could be, but never actually incorporating it into a team. Megas give more incentive however, so I may try it out. Also, the problem with Celebi is that you may not even find time to actually pull off a Healing Wish, especially due to the fact that in order to outspeed some Pokemon that can OHKO it, it will need to paralyze them first, which can be tricky. Also, the sheer amount of weaknesses it has can really make it tough. It still is good, and can give Healing wish some utility, especially if you are in a pursuit trap.
Jirachi might make more use of this, especially if you can put this on a scarf set.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Blissey and Chansey can use Healing Wish too. Healing Wish / Aromatherepy / Softboiled / [attack] seems pretty good. Also Cresselia gets Lunar Dance, which is basically Healing Wish, but with full PP. With the Sandstorm nerf, it could be really cool. Dual Screens + Ice Beam + Lunar Dance could wreck, or just standard [Psychic / Ice Beam] / Thunder Wave / Moonlight / Lunar Dance.

 

[deluge]

Lilligant's Sleep Powder + Healing Wish + blazing speed in the sun is good.
Chimecho has a really interesting movepool too (Yawn/Hypnosis, Wrap, Screens, Heal Bell, Wish, Thunder Wave, Trick Room) but those stats...

 

[TheUeki]

My favorite thing about Healing Wish is that it means you don't have to wait until all counters before your win condition can come in.
Here's a replay of how proper use of Healing Wish can win you games:

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-70214089

I can't agree with that replay for a simple reason:

What made you win wasn't exactly healing wish. On Turn 27, if you had been hit by confusion, the game would end there. You were lucky enough to hit Klefki.

Sure, healing wish allowed you to take a moonblast, but I still don't think it was a key factor in that match

 

[TheArchangle]

Healing Wish and Lunar Dance have always been viable so it's not question that they will still play a role in the metagame. I do agree that these moves will raise in usage with status all over the place as it in certain cases is superior Wish like the OP said. I've always enjoyed using these moves and I'm going to try and incorporate some users into my team.

 

[TrippingRocks]

While Healing Wish and Lunar Dance undoubtedly are viable, the most efficient time to use such a move is when your pivotal pokemon is badly injured and when the sacrificial pokemon is low on health. Of course, you could use Healing Wish/Lunar Dance anytime, but the ideal moment to do so is stated above. Since you're giving up one pokemon to heal another pokemon, the healing target MUST be important to your team (like a vital sweeper). This also means that the pokemon doing the healing is expendable in the current situation.

To me, I feel that this move is a bit too situational for my liking. While it can definitely make or break a game, it requires one of your pokemon to not only give up one of its move slots, but also its own life. Under ideal circumstances (the healing target is low on health and the sacrificial pokemon is also low on health), it may not seem much to sacrifice a pokemon since it's already low on health, but in comes another annoyance- speed. If the sacrificial pokemon is low on health and slow, it may very well be KOed before getting off its Healing Wish/Lunar Dance. And the prerequisite for the healing to be even needed is that the important healing target is wounded, which requires switching in and out. While switching pokemon is obviously going to happen in a battle, this healing move dictates that it MUST occur before it has any sort of usage. You cannot use Healing Wish/Lunar Dance on the first turn of a battle or even the second turn to any great effect. While this may seem trivial, this detracts from the move's versatility, which already wasn't versatile. Compare it to something like Momento.

Even though Momento also sacrifices a pokemon, it gives a big opportunity for any set-up sweeper on your team. Momento's most efficient time of usage would be when the sacrificial pokemon is low on health and just that (while Healing Wish/Lunar Dance also requires the heal target to be wounded). It can be used on the first or second turn to immediately buy time for your set-up sweeper.

Though it may seem like I'm just bashing Healing Wish/Lunar dance, I'm not. They are legitimately good moves. However, it requires careful planning, you need to allow your important pokemon to get injured but not KOed, and then you need to find an opportunity to switch in your sacrificial pokemon and have them do Healing Wish/Lunar Dance before they themselves get KOed.

 

[escarlata]

I can't agree with that replay for a simple reason:

What made you win wasn't exactly healing wish. On Turn 27, if you had been hit by confusion, the game would end there. You were lucky enough to hit Klefki.

Sure, healing wish allowed you to take a moonblast, but I still don't think it was a key factor in that match

I certainly agree that turn 27 is a major turning point, but without that Healing Wish near the end, it would be hard to make good use of that early advantage if not for the Healing Wish. Now if we were to look again, Gyarados alone took out 5 members. I was able to bring it out early to put pressure on the opponent because I know that at the rate the game is going, the final sweep might not happen, whereas it would have been possible with some prior wall breaking. At that point, the only 2 Pokemon that could put that offensive presence are Excadrill and Gyarados. If I were to bring in Excadrill, I would be immediately forced out by Gliscor/Greninja the next turn, so if I were to attempt to preserve my Gyarados till the end, the game could well have ended right there at turn 24. But knowing that I have Healing Wish to back me up, I was able to afford to make that risk of bringing Gyarados in early, which is the key factor in the turn-around victory.

Even though Momento also sacrifices a pokemon, it gives a big opportunity for any set-up sweeper on your team. Momento's most efficient time of usage would be when the sacrificial pokemon is low on health and just that (while Healing Wish/Lunar Dance also requires the heal target to be wounded). It can be used on the first or second turn to immediately buy time for your set-up sweeper.

By comparing Memento with Healing Wish, there is an interesting comparison to be brought up. Memento is one which help you set up in front of attacks, Healing Wish is one that helps you set up in front of status. Just for example's sake, Memento might help a MLuca set up a easy SD/NP in front of an attacker, Healing Wish lets you set up without first eliminating the Sableye in the opponent's team, allowing you to put a lot of pressure way earlier. Getting Lucario burnt also means that the opponent might be less careful about sacking Sableye, which makes the same sweep easier.

While I'm not exactly saying which is superior, what I am trying to get at is that these 2 moves actually play vastly different roles in aiding a sweep.

 

[TrippingRocks]

By comparing Memento with Healing Wish, there is an interesting comparison to be brought up. Memento is one which help you set up in front of attacks, Healing Wish is one that helps you set up in front of status.

Not quite. Healing Wish/Lunar Dance heals the the target AFTER they've been damaged/afflicted with status. Memento halves the opposing pokemon's attacks. Healing Wish is retroactive, to heal what's already been done. Memento is proactive, to reduce damage before it has been incurred. Memento forces the opponent to either switch out or only attack with 50% power, usually allowing the player to use a set-up move. Healing Wish does not buy you time nor does it reduce damage, rather, it makes your heal target as if he didn't participate in the battle yet. It does NOT allow you to set up in front of status. Healing Wish cures status effects, but it does not prevent any new status effects from occurring.

Just for example's sake, Memento might help a MLuca set up a easy SD/NP in front of an attacker, Healing Wish lets you set up without first eliminating the Sableye in the opponent's team, allowing you to put a lot of pressure way earlier. Getting Lucario burnt also means that the opponent might be less careful about sacking Sableye, which makes the same sweep easier.

While I'm not exactly saying which is superior, what I am trying to get at is that these 2 moves actually play vastly different roles in aiding a sweep.

In the case against status users, Healing Wish is more useful than Memento. Still though... there are a lot more direct attacks than there are status moves, even with Will-O-Wisp rising in popularity. The key to using Memento is to use it against an attacker. Since memento is proactive, you can use it against any attacker and it'll pretty much buy you a turn since your opponent is most likely going to switch afterwards (or deal half damage). Since Healing Wish is retroactive, you have to wait until your important pokemon is wounded before you can use it. After it has been used, your healed pokemon still needs to be wary of status or powerful attacks. However, Healing Wish also allows you to play more recklessly with your key pokemon knowing that as long as it doesn't get knocked out, you can fully heal it later. Still though, I definitely prefer Memento.

 

[escarlata]

Memento is of course better if you are trying to set up with say for example MLucario who can obliterate a team without priority status if given the chance to set up. On the other hand, Healing Wish allows your sweeper to double as a wallbreaker before setting a sweep. In essense, the comparison of Memento and Healing Wish sums up to 3 differences:

1. Memento benefit frail sweepers like MLucario, Healing Wish benefit bulky sweepers like MGyarados.
2. Using Memento benefits late game, when checks are gone, using Healing Wish benefits early game, allowing you to exert pressure on the opponent.
3. Memento almost requires you to switch to your sweepers after usage, Healing Wish is more flexible in the sense that it still gives you an advantage if your sweeper is no longer alive/not suitable to come out.

In essence, both these moves hold a different niche compared to each other, and the difference is what the team really needs. Since I personally specifically don't like to use frail sweepers, Healing Wish is more beneficial to me.

Having said that, I'm certainly not saying Memento is inferior to Healing Wish, only saying that there is a greater incentive to run HW this gen compared to the last, due to megas and status.

 

[Squashed]

I got to 2300 on PS using a healing wish team and thought I'd share what I found.

Putting healing wish on one pokemon is a waste unless that pokemon has nothing else to fill the move slot. The chances that everything will align to let you use the move effectively are too small.

What you need are multiple healing wish users and multiple good recipients. I'm using three of each.

A good recipient is an offensive poke that can sweep teams and does good damage to its counters, like Hydreigon or Mega Lucario. Healing wish lets you use sweepers early, when their counters are still on the board, and get some damage in while the counters switch in. When you get to the late game and start using healing wishes, would-be counters will be heavily damaged, and one of your pokemon breaks past, you win.

The facts that you can pick which of your offensive pokemon gets repeated, and counters get worn out if you lean on them hard enough, are what make healing wish work better when you spam it. If you could break the species clause, you wouldn't pack three Mega Lucarios (well, maybe), because many teams can handle that. But if you could pick three Mega Lucarios, or three Azumarills, or three Dragonites, (but not all at once; that's nine pokemon) after seeing how the opponent's team handles each of them, you can probably pick one that works.

At least that's the ideal. Trying to get actual use out of your offensive pokemon and switch out before they get KO'd and keep the wishers alive long enough to revive them and get some other utility out of the wishers is a lot of tricky stuff, and it doesn't really go perfectly that often. That's another reason I'm saying it's best to go all-in on the healing wish strategy - if you lose a sweeper and a wisher, and still have two of each left, that's still enough to break through.

As for the actual wishers, it's important that they provide some other utility to the team. Rocks, screens, and being bulky enough to work as a pivot are what I've had the most success with. I really think that a healing wish revenge killer could work, but the requirements are too exact and I haven't found one yet (I want scarf Keldeo, basically).

I don't think the actual team I'm using to take advantage of any of this is very good. I'd love to hear some suggestions for different pokemon to try.

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Extreme Speed

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
- Play Rough

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Memento

Latias (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish

Yes, Dugtrio is a memento user, not a Healing Wish user. Memento doesn't work too well on a revenge killer (and Dugtrio isn't doing a good job at it anyway); I think Healing Wish would work better. Memento could work on a suicide lead, but I'm still leaning towards more Healing Wish.

Either way, that's what I've been using, not a recommendation on the best way to put what I said into practice.

 

[SansNickel]

I got to 2300 on PS using a healing wish team and thought I'd share what I found.

Putting healing wish on one pokemon is a waste unless that pokemon has nothing else to fill the move slot. The chances that everything will align to let you use the move effectively are too small.

What you need are multiple healing wish users and multiple good recipients. I'm using three of each.

A good recipient is an offensive poke that can sweep teams and does good damage to its counters, like Heidreigon or Mega Lucario. Healing wish lets you use sweepers early, when their counters are still on the board, and get some damage in while the counters switch in. When you get to the late game and start using healing wishes, would-be counters will be heavily damaged, and one of your pokemon breaks past, you win.

The facts that you can pick which of your offensive pokemon gets repeated, and counters get worn out if you lean on them hard enough, are what make healing wish work better when you spam it. If you could break the species clause, you wouldn't pack three Mega Lucarios (well, maybe), because many teams can handle that. But if you could pick three Mega Lucarios, or three Azumarills, or three Dragonites, (but not all at once; that's nine pokemon) after seeing how the opponent's team handles each of them, you can probably pick one that works.

At least that's the ideal. Trying to get actual use out of your offensive pokemon and switch out before they get KO'd and keep the wishers alive long enough to revive them and get some other utility out of the wishers is a lot of tricky stuff, and it doesn't really go perfectly that often. That's another reason I'm saying it's best to go all-in on the healing wish strategy - if you lose a sweeper and a wisher, and still have two of each left, that's still enough to break through.

As for the actual wishers, it's important that they provide some other utility to the team. Rocks, screens, and being bulky enough to work as a pivot are what I've had the most success with. I really think that a healing wish revenge killer could work, but the requirements are too exact and I haven't found one yet (I want scarf Keldeo, basically).

I don't think the actual team I'm using to take advantage of any of this is very good. I'd love to hear some suggestions for different pokemon to try.



Yes, Dugtrio is a memento user, not a Healing Wish user. Memento doesn't work too well on a revenge killer (and Dugtrio isn't doing a good job at it anyway); I think Healing Wish would work better. Memento could work on a suicide lead, but I'm still leaning towards more Healing Wish.

Either way, that's what I've been using, not a recommendation on the best way to put what I said into practice.

Two pokes that come to mind are jirachi and latias.

Jirachi has a nice scarf set, good 100/100/100 bulk even uninvested, a usable attack stat, gets ice punch (20% freeze!), can flinchhax, has u-turn, and healing wish. It is also resistant against SR, meaning it's a decent revenge killer.

Latias has nice special bulk and a good typing, I believe it gets defog (?) so dragonite can come in again with its multiscale intact. It has great speed to pull off a healing wish, and there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do with it.

 

[ryan]

Latias is undoubtedly the best Healing Wish user right now because it can also come in, pop off a Defog, get off a couple of hits, and then let itself go to fully heal another member of your team. I've used Life Orb Defog Latias with Healing Wish quite extensively this gen alongside things such as Mega Pinsir and Talonflame, which can be used much more recklessly early-game if you can come in again later with full HP thanks to Healing Wish.

Somebody compared Healing Wish to regular Wish early on, but the two are very, very different and should be used differently. Wish is a lot harder to use on offensive teams because you have to worry about the Pokemon that you're passing to being able to take a hit and not get statused. With Healing Wish, you don't have to worry about that. You can just sacrifice your current Pokemon and bring in something else for free, regardless of their total HP/status conditions (so long as they haven't been knocked out). Healing Wish is a momentum grabber, an HP/status restoring move, and a game-changer all in one move.

 

[Squashed]

Latias has been doing fantastically for me by being fast, bulky, and able to use dual screens. In the team I posted, it's possibly the best poke.

I'll try Jirachi as a revenge killer.

One of the problems with trying to stack repeat uses of Healing Wish is that so many of the users are psychic. It quickly adds up to a nasty series of weaknesses. The above two both suffer from this.

Among non-psychics, Lilligant in the sun is the only really good healing wish user I've found. Unfortunately, needing to have sun sort of forces you to pick up Mega Charizard Y, who takes up a mega slot and is a bit too frail as a healing wish recipient.

 

[Snou]

Healing wish is a great supporter move for offensive teams. I really love use ScarfRachi and sack it when it's filler to recover another Pokemon <3 :o

 

[ANinyMouse]

I'm going to be playtesting Healing Wish Lopunny. I love the base 105 speed, and it has tons of support options, but the low offensive stats trouble me. It does have enough bulk to switch in on most threats once, though. Ideally, though, you'd U-Turn to it so it could cripple the opposing Pokemon before getting off the Healing Wish. Or just pop it in the battle during a revenge scenario, if the situation allows it.

 

[Ash Borer]

forcing the opponent to fight the same pokemon twice is overwhelming. Healing wish is the rason to use latias over latios as a defogger. Most teams dont lose to talonflame on merit of recoil and tealth rock. With this latias talonflame defeats entire teams.