Grass-types: DON'T YOU PUT THAT VINE THERE

marilli

I COULD BE BANNED!
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Leafeon

Leafeon! The cutest Grass-type is also the strongest. Substitute + Swords Dance is great, and it can set up in front of Golems and Regirocks all day. 95 Base Speed is really good in NU, and boosted Leaf Blade and Frustration has great coverage. Other options over Substitute include Baton Pass and Synthesis, but isn’t Substitute the best move in the history of Pokémon? Defensive wish set is also viable, I guess, but who does that when you can kill things?

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Torterra

Torterra is very underrated at the moment, but I’m sure that very few good players make the mistake of dismissing him just because of the usage stats. STAB Earthquake and Wood Hammer hits really hard, and fliers get hammered by Stone Edge. This leaves only fellow Grass-types and Weezing as the only things that dare switch on him. Rock Polish lines him up for a sweep, and is the most popular set. CB set is also viable for smashing things up. Of course, Defensive sets have access to SR, Leech Seed, Synthesis, etc. and Torterra enjoys niche as one of the very few SR setters that are actually not weak to Fighting (though tbh defensive variants are rare)

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Cacturne

A pessimist will easily dismiss Cacturne as something of the past: Cacturne certainly isn’t as good as it was before when Lanturn and Slowking were both around, but make no mistake. Cacturne is one of the best Spikes users that can hold his own ground as an offensive threat. Spikes are such a valuable commodity, and Cacturne is the go-to offensive Spiker of the tier. Sucker Punch is valuable priority for stopping sweeps, and it has room for either Encore or Swords Dance, depending on what type of approach you take with it.

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Exeggutor

Exeggutor is a fierce palm tree that just kills things. Offensive Exeggutor has two main routes in Choice Specs and Chlorophyll abuse. Specs Leaf Storm literally kills everything, and Chlorophyll allows it to outspeed just about everything. It’s just a fine combination of bulk and power, and as I said: it kills things. There's quite a number of things Exeggutor can easily switch in on: Golem, Regirock, Tangela, etc. and Exeggutor can switch in with no problem and guarantee a kill. Of course, SubSeedProtect set with Tspikes support is incredibly annoying.

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Victreebel

Victreebel is such a fine mon and I don’t quite understand why no one’s using him. He was the cleanup member for my sun team I made quite a while ago, and I never regretted putting him on the team. For a Victreebel user, only worry you might have is ‘what set am I supposed to use?’ It can go physical, special, and mixed. It has Sleep Powder, Swords Dance, and Growth. It has a gigantic movepool. A must for sun teams.

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Tangela

The face of NU physical wall. It’s a welcome sign for Magmortar and other scary threats. Still, it has a gigantic support movepool (Leech Seed, Knock Off, Sleep Powder, Reflect, Stun Spore, Synthesis, etc.) almost to the point that you would think it has a 4 moveslot syndrome. It's also deceptively strong with 100 base Special Attack. With regenerator, thing just never dies, and it’s just incredibly… good. Just watch out for special moves, really, as it can even tank a Brave Bird if you so desire. Know your limits, and Tangela will serve you well.

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Amoongus

It has Spore, and it’s bulky. It can take neutral hits, and Effect spore can be incredibly clutch if you’re me. Synthesis gives reliable healing, and Clear Smog is good against boosters. I’ve never used it, but it is quite the bulky threat.

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Vileplume

It’s Amoongus 2.0. Or should I say, Amoongus is Vileplume 2.0 … They are so similar I don’t quite have much to say. Amoongus is a bit bulkier on both sides, but Vileplume has higher special attack. Amoongus has Clear Smog, Vileplume has Aromatherapy. They both absorb Tspikes, too.

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Ivysaur

Ok, I'll just cram in the Grass / Poisons into one section. Ivysaur has Leech Seed and Knock Off over Amoonguss. It's a lot faster than it too. It's a teeny bit bulkier but doesn't matter at the end with Leftovers coming into play. Sleep Powder is cool, and Ivysaur is the only one of the three with access to Leaf Storm if anyone happens to care.

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Serperior

Serperior's biggest draw is its high speed and unpredictability. Its flaw? Grass isn't the attacking type known for their coverage, and Serperior is no exception. Specially, it will have just Giga Drain and Hidden Power, while physically it has Leaf Blade, Frustration, and Dragon Tail: there, I just listed all its viable attacking moves. However, Serperior can run multiple sets: it has great boosting moves in Calm Mind and Coil, and the lack of coverage move is mitigated by the fact that Substitute has great synergy with bulky boosting moves. It also gets Leech Seed for a fast Subseeder, not to mention it gets Glare, Taunt, and Dual Screens for team support.

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Cradily

Its Rock-Grass typing is quite quirky. It's possibly the only Rock-type that doesn't mind Gorebyss Surf, but it takes too much from Swellow and Braviary Brave Bird to fill that rock type niche. It really doesn't have much resists, either. Still, Rock is an incredible subtyping in a metagame dominated by Normal-types. It has a lot of weaknesses, which is quite the letdown as a defensive Pokemon. Still, it's really bulky on both sides and can set up and stick around for a while.

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Shiftry

No sleep powder means Shiftry is below a notch in comparison to Victreebel, but seriously its physical set is quite phenomenal. SD / Sucker Punch / Seed Bomb / Nature Power already demolishes everything not named Tangela, so the challenge will be to ensure the setup! Tangela doesn’t take sun boosted HP Fire very well, though, and it’s a lot more unexpected than Weather Ball Victreebel. Another viable option for Sun.

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Simisage

Simisage has multiple attacking options, with access to Nasty Plot and good mixed options. It sits at a convenient speed tier: though 100 base speed doesn't mean as much in NU, it's still great that it's only outsped by Scarfers, Swellow, and Cinccino if you're looking at bog-standard things. It's rather frail, but it has coverage moves like Acrobatics, Rock Slide, stuff you rarely see in other grass types.

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Jumpluff

Sleep is good. Jumpluff’s cute, and it’s annoying with Encore and Subseed. What else could you want? If you’re brave enough, SD Acro is the set for you.

Honorable Mentions:

Meganium: Quite bulky, and Dragon Tail / Roar are draws. Synthesis and Aromatherapy gives healing, but they are both limited in PP and you won't have room for both.
Leavanny: Bugs are cool in Psychic-centric metagame, but SR weakness is major downside in a metagame with no viable spinners.
Tropius: Hi I’m TropiOUs! I sadly don't see this being much usable, though.
Parasect: Rain, Spore, and Bad typing. SR weakness is a letdown, and it's too slow with too many weaknesses against common threats like Magmortar and birds. I've also never seen it around.
Cottonee: Priority Weather, and Priority Stun Spore, Leech Seed, and Encore.
Lombre: I counter Gorebyss am I good yet?
 
I know only ninja uses this but, why mention Lombre and not Ivysaur?.

Also, I don't even like Tropius ;_;.
 
Ivysaur doesn't really stand out in any noticeable way. Lombre has a unique typing, while Ivysaur is outclassed offensively by Victreebel and defensively by Gloom/Vileplume.

P.S. Where zis Bellossom?
 
What do you mean Tangela can't exactly deal damage? It has base 100 Special Attack, I've never thought of it as weak.

My Tangela runs 252 HP / 252 Def with Eviolite and Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, Leech Seed and Hidden Power Ice. giga Drain 2HKOes stuff easily, it's not weak.
 
come on, serperior deserves more than an honorable mention. it does great. subseed, submind, subcoil, dual screens, you name it.
 
Ivysaur is bulkier and faster than both Amoonguss and Vileplume, and has Knock Off, which is useful to deal with Eviolite mons.

Over Tangela, it has a resistance to Fighting and immunity to Toxic, and its Sp. Def is pretty good.
 
Tangela has access to regenerator which can be crucial if you need to sponge a hit form your opponent's poke and switch out again.
 
Ivysaur only takes 4% (ish) less damage from the same physical attack as Amoonguss. This is with a 252 HP / 252 Def EV spread and + nature.

For special attacks, Ivysaur takes roughly 6% less.

Ivysaur does have Knock Off, yes, but more importantly, it has Leech Seed. I'd say that it's not really worth it to use Ivysaur over Amoonguss because Leftovers makes up for the difference in bulk and Ivysaur has to rely on Eviolite, but access to Leech Seed throws that out the window. Ivysaur's Special Attack is only five points lower, and it gets cool stuff such as Sludge Bomb, Synthesis, and Swords Dance. The Fighting-type resistance, Toxic immunity, and Toxic Spikes absorption (just like Amoonguss) plus Sleep Powder, it's a good contender IMO.

Also, Ivysaur has base 60 Speed to Amoonguss's 30. There are so many Pokemon that Ivysaur outspeeds that Amoonguss can't, such as Quagsire, Gurdurr, Regirock, Lickilicky, Gorebyss, Torterra, Zweilous, Wartortle, Exeggutor and Weezing, to name a few. Gotta count for something, eh?

Ivysaur @ Eviolite
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Leech Seed
-Sleep Powder / Protect

Thoughts?

It's actually looking good so far. Ivysaur just tanked an Ursaring's Facade for less than 20%. Wow.

It's having some trouble with residual damage, so I might give it Synthesis.
 
I'm assuming that Ursaring wasn't carrying a Flame Orb, as a Guts boosted 252 Adamant Facade does 74.1% - 87.3% to 252/252 +tve Eviolite Ivysaur.

Even if Jolly, it's doing 67.6% - 79.6%.
 
Even Quick Feet variants would have done 45.4% - 53.7% with Facade if it was status'd, unless they were silly enough to run Flame Orb.

The Ursaring simply wasn't status'd at the time.

Eviolite Ivysaur just gets 2HKO'd with hazards up by too many of the premier attackers in the metagame right now, considering it's also weak to Jynx, Magmortar, Exeggutor, Swellow, Braviary, Rotom-S, and Gorebyss. Even Sawk 3HKOs it at the worse, 2HKOs if it's Banded.
 
More people need to use Shiftry. For real.

It's base 80 Speed is unfortunate in a tier where most of the big threats fall between 82-95, but Dark STAB priority is resisted by very little and hits extremely hard.

It struggles with bulky grasses so it pairs excellently with a Poison type like Muk. Jynx still gives it trouble but then again, what doesn't it?
 
I swear, wtf is with people and not acknowledging that Serp is probably the best defensive wall breaker in the tier right now with the possible exception of Missy.

Also in relation to the thread title. I've seen enough Hentai to know what this thread is really about.
 
Serperior is a pretty good. I stalled a guy last night on the ladder w/ leech seed, glare, substitute and dragon tail. I parahaxed half his team and trolled him for 50+ turns during the match.
 
More people need to use Shiftry. For real.

It's base 80 Speed is unfortunate in a tier where most of the big threats fall between 82-95, but Dark STAB priority is resisted by very little and hits extremely hard.

It struggles with bulky grasses so it pairs excellently with a Poison type like Muk. Jynx still gives it trouble but then again, what doesn't it?

I've been very interested in trying shiftry out actually, it sounds fairly decent; with access to running a number of different viable sets such as NP, SD, or even Growth in Sun; although I have been fairly underwhelmed by sun when I tried it out...
 
I've been very interested in trying shiftry out actually, it sounds fairly decent; with access to running a number of different viable sets such as NP, SD, or even Growth in Sun; although I have been fairly underwhelmed by sun when I tried it out...

I used it pretty extensively about a month or two ago and found it to be very, very good. I suppose part of that was surprise factor because nobody expects to see it outside of sun but still, if it gets a SD up it's hard to take down without something getting maimed by Sucker Punch.

I am also intrigued by a NP set but like I mentioned, its speed is very tragic (and I usually judge people who think stats below 90 are "mediocre") so it REALLY needs that priority to be able to kill things. Think about all the things that outspeed it -Magmortar, Jynx (still causes trouble with its mind games), non-Choiced(!!) Sawk, all the birds... the list goes on. None, or very few of these resist Sucker Punch. I suppose you could run a mixed set, but Shiftry NEEDS Sucker Punch.

I said it struggled with bulky grasses like Tangela and Serperior but now that the token Steel Klinklang is gone you could run X-Scissor over Nature Power. It would still be walled by the Rock/Steels but it can at least hit them neutrally with Seed Bomb. And they aren't as common as the grasses.

I might actually try it again haha. Talking about it has made me realise just how good it was.
 
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