Why not use m venusaur
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Other Good Cores
- Thread starter GrislyBear
- Start date
- Status
The only reason is the fact i like running U-Turn on my grass type :/. M-Venusaur is a better poke overall though.
What's the viability of a mandibuzz, Aegislash, Gastrodon/goodra core?
Mandibuzz, Aegislash is similar to the HydreSlash build but more defensive by nature of Mandibuzz's stats. It leaves an electric weakness from mandi and a fire weakness from Aegi which are both resisted by goodra/gastrodon. Typing wise gastrodon isn't weak to fairy or ice like goodra and so is a better choice but lacks the supreme special bulk goodra has. A specially defensive goodra compliments the physical mandibuzz. With assault vest goodra is capable of shrugging off many special fairy and ice moves, though there is the ever present azumarill and mawile to think about. Mandibuzz wrecks most grass types with natural resistences and brave bird.
Mandibuzz, Aegislash is similar to the HydreSlash build but more defensive by nature of Mandibuzz's stats. It leaves an electric weakness from mandi and a fire weakness from Aegi which are both resisted by goodra/gastrodon. Typing wise gastrodon isn't weak to fairy or ice like goodra and so is a better choice but lacks the supreme special bulk goodra has. A specially defensive goodra compliments the physical mandibuzz. With assault vest goodra is capable of shrugging off many special fairy and ice moves, though there is the ever present azumarill and mawile to think about. Mandibuzz wrecks most grass types with natural resistences and brave bird.
I like the look of this. Aegislash/Mandibuzz are both extremely strong type-wise. Electric and fire are the only weaknesses they don't check between themselves, which is easily handled by a dragon or bulky water/ground type. Garchomp comes to mind with its electric immunity and STAB EQs to take out either of fire/electric types, but I imagine Goodra and/or Gastrodon would work quite nicely too. I think Aegislash nicely checks the average fairy, though-- it might not be as much of a concern to have 2 fairy weaknesses when Aegislash can resist and hit back super-effectively with iron head (or neutrally with STAB, worst case scenario).
Alomomola / Goodra / Amoongus?
Alomomola: Weak to Grass/Electric, both resisted by the other two.
Goodra: Weak to Ice/Fairy: Alomomola resists Ice, Amoongus resists Fairy.
Amoongus: Weak to Fire/Flying/Psychic/Ice: Alomomola resists both, Goodra resists fire.
Alomomola is physical wall, forms Regen core with Amoongus. Goodra is an excellent special wall, and Amoongus is mixed (though mine is more physically defensive). This might be better in RU/NU, with Goodra ==> Sliggoo, but it seems pretty solid. (this is theorymon)
Alomomola: Weak to Grass/Electric, both resisted by the other two.
Goodra: Weak to Ice/Fairy: Alomomola resists Ice, Amoongus resists Fairy.
Amoongus: Weak to Fire/Flying/Psychic/Ice: Alomomola resists both, Goodra resists fire.
Alomomola is physical wall, forms Regen core with Amoongus. Goodra is an excellent special wall, and Amoongus is mixed (though mine is more physically defensive). This might be better in RU/NU, with Goodra ==> Sliggoo, but it seems pretty solid. (this is theorymon)
This was my general thought too but I'm leery about using garchomp purely because things like mamoswine exist, which is an end all for everything I can think of using mandibuzz+Aegislash. Except maybe gastrodon. I agree that of the popular fairies, aegislash at least checks all of them. Other things that really worry me are landorus-T with intimidate and eq/stone edge is can take out aegislash and mandibuzz relatively easily, gastrodon would prove harder if it carries ice beam. Rotom wash is entirely too threatening if garchomp over gastrodon, threatening against goodra too. Even then though, what could gastrodon do besides try toxic stall? The stupid little washer is a wrench in everyone's plans.
Rotom-W/Talonflame/Excadrill is a pretty good core from my experience.
Ah, Mamoswine does become a problem, yes... For that matter, so would something like Weavile (not as common, certainly, but I've used one to great effect from time to time). Though, on the topic of Rotom-W, the notion 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' rather comes to mind-- it wouldn't resist electric if going with W forme, but it'd at least be neutral and resist fire. Rotom-H, however, would resist fairy, fire, plus electric, and still be immune to ground. That makes for 2 rock weaknesses, and an unaccounted for water weakness, but that may be easier to handle than the ice/fairy weaknesses, since you can use more varied pokemon to cover rotom's weaknesses, if nothing else.
Pangoro and cloyster make a great duo centered around cloyster getting the shell smash sweep.
Pangoro @ leftovers
Ability: scrappy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- roar / taunt
- parting shot
- brick break
- earthquake / crunch / poison jab
Pangoro aims at taking out the steel types that cloyster can't get past. Roar phases until a desired poke is on the field. then you can either parting shot to let cloyster shell smash with ease, or brick break the poke that prevents cloyster from sweeping (aegislash, heatran, magnezone, bisharp). Taunt is useful for getting sableye on the switch because brick break 2HKO's. For the last move, I'd recommend earthquake or crunch, but poison jab is good for catching fairies on the switch, especially azumarill which stops cloyster. I run defensive EV's but you could put those in attack.
Cloyster @ white herb
Ability: skill link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- ice shard
- shell smash
- rock blast
- icicle spear
Just the standard cloyster set. You can run never melt ice instead of white herb, or even king's rock if you're feeling extra douchey.
Edit: 24 speed evs allows pangoro to outspeed uninvested aegislash. Pangor will be taking about 51.7-60.9% from aegislash's sacred sword if fully defensive.
Pangoro @ leftovers
Ability: scrappy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- roar / taunt
- parting shot
- brick break
- earthquake / crunch / poison jab
Pangoro aims at taking out the steel types that cloyster can't get past. Roar phases until a desired poke is on the field. then you can either parting shot to let cloyster shell smash with ease, or brick break the poke that prevents cloyster from sweeping (aegislash, heatran, magnezone, bisharp). Taunt is useful for getting sableye on the switch because brick break 2HKO's. For the last move, I'd recommend earthquake or crunch, but poison jab is good for catching fairies on the switch, especially azumarill which stops cloyster. I run defensive EV's but you could put those in attack.
Cloyster @ white herb
Ability: skill link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- ice shard
- shell smash
- rock blast
- icicle spear
Just the standard cloyster set. You can run never melt ice instead of white herb, or even king's rock if you're feeling extra douchey.
Edit: 24 speed evs allows pangoro to outspeed uninvested aegislash. Pangor will be taking about 51.7-60.9% from aegislash's sacred sword if fully defensive.
Last edited:
(EDITED FROM THE ORIGINAL POST)
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire => Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power Fighting
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
I gotta thank Albacore and Ogami for reminding me of the Pokemon I neglected. The idea of this core is to take on pesky Ghost-types which are running rampant this gen. Houndoom is the biggest answer, as its Fire/Dark typing brings about ferocious STABs further boosted by its base 140 Special Attack and Nasty Plot. MegaDoom's improved Defenses allow it to switch in to stray Shadow Balls easier. Houndoom's Fighting and Water-type weaknesses are sponged by Azumarill, while Gengar is immune to Ground and Fighting. Azumarill also serves as a solid check to Greninja, who would otherwise wreck this team. However, Rock and Electric-type attacks still pose a few problems, which is why I have Garchomp.
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Garchomp's three weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, and Fairy are covered by Azumarill and Gengar, and Garchomp gives the core more Physical presence. In addition, Garchomp can stand up to Electric and Rock-type attacks, finally covering all of the core's type weaknesses.
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire => Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power Fighting
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
I gotta thank Albacore and Ogami for reminding me of the Pokemon I neglected. The idea of this core is to take on pesky Ghost-types which are running rampant this gen. Houndoom is the biggest answer, as its Fire/Dark typing brings about ferocious STABs further boosted by its base 140 Special Attack and Nasty Plot. MegaDoom's improved Defenses allow it to switch in to stray Shadow Balls easier. Houndoom's Fighting and Water-type weaknesses are sponged by Azumarill, while Gengar is immune to Ground and Fighting. Azumarill also serves as a solid check to Greninja, who would otherwise wreck this team. However, Rock and Electric-type attacks still pose a few problems, which is why I have Garchomp.
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Garchomp's three weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, and Fairy are covered by Azumarill and Gengar, and Garchomp gives the core more Physical presence. In addition, Garchomp can stand up to Electric and Rock-type attacks, finally covering all of the core's type weaknesses.
Last edited:
Azumarill is a great suggestion for that core, Celon. In fact I would suggest it over Starmie who doesn't add much to the core accept compound weaknesses to Greninja and special walls. Fairy gives the same fighting resist but turns bug and dark weaknesses into resists which is fantastic. Furthermore, Azumarill actually has the bulk to use its typing defensively. Love that suggestion. Just add something else to the team that can rid yourself of hazards. Tentacruel would have good synergy with the rest of the squad and had knock off to cripple ghost switch ins
So I've been interested in UU and I've been wanting to make an effective core. Unfortunately, I've been wanting to build it around Hippowdon the only (hilariously) UU pokémon in my OU team. Mono-ground doesn't exactly have a lot of options for type synergy and Hippowdon's sandstream makes building a team around him on the difficult side. So... Yeah...
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Sand Stream
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish (+def/-SpA)
- Earthquake
- Yawn
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
Hippowdon is the focus of the team, the earth shakes at his every step and the Sun is blocked out by his mighty presence. Also, he pretty much shrugs off any attempts at physical offense, which gives him plenty of opportunity to begin shaking up the enemy team by shuffling with yawn and whirlwind.
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Iron Barbs
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Sassy (+SpD/-Spe), 0SpeIV
- Gyroball
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Hippowdon's type synergy is kind of awkward, he either hurts his allies via sandstorm or doesn't encourage switching back into him, I opted to partner it in strategy and brute force the synergy by using Ferroseed as a special wall, while it doesn't abuse Iron Barbs I'd rather it be the special wall to better avoid being caught by knock off. Ferroseed provides Hippowdon with the entry hazards it needs to make the shuffling exceptionally painful. While I normally opt for Powerwhip on my Ferrothorn, Ferroseed's lower speed and weaker grass attack in seed bomb make gyroball preferable. Ferro also quadruply resists grass and finds itself attracted to the voluptuous health pools of water types that aren't Slowbro. Slowbro throws fire around and is a meanie face.
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm (+SpD/-Atk), 0AtkIV
- Scald
- Will-o-wisp
- Recover
- Hex
What better partner for Ferro than Jellicent? (Tentacruel) What better partner for Jellicent than Ferro? (A dark type) Jellicent provides this team with a spinblocker that is hilariously in UU this gen and brings gifts of being on fire to the enemy team. Heh. A pyromaniac that's water type and the solution to the pyromania (run Slowbro!) that Ferroseed's scared of. For Hippowdon, it covers his weakness to ice better than Ferro and also resists water, but also attracts lightning to switch in on.
The team lacks ways of dealing with hazards, straight up sweeping, revenge killing, stopping Houndoom and would appreciate a cleric. Kabutops (with the new assault vest can take Mega Houndoom's +2 dark pulse in clear skies and respond with a max attack Aqua Jet for a guaranteed 2HKO) and Umbreon spring to mind. Sand didn't really get a lot of new toys this gen, the most awesome being Assault Vest rock types for Special tanking Shenanigans (or Tyranitar and suddenly Mandibuzz which are OU). The fact that this core functions better with non-sand mons though? Makes for much less of a stranglehold during team building.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Sand Stream
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish (+def/-SpA)
- Earthquake
- Yawn
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
Hippowdon is the focus of the team, the earth shakes at his every step and the Sun is blocked out by his mighty presence. Also, he pretty much shrugs off any attempts at physical offense, which gives him plenty of opportunity to begin shaking up the enemy team by shuffling with yawn and whirlwind.
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Iron Barbs
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Sassy (+SpD/-Spe), 0SpeIV
- Gyroball
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Hippowdon's type synergy is kind of awkward, he either hurts his allies via sandstorm or doesn't encourage switching back into him, I opted to partner it in strategy and brute force the synergy by using Ferroseed as a special wall, while it doesn't abuse Iron Barbs I'd rather it be the special wall to better avoid being caught by knock off. Ferroseed provides Hippowdon with the entry hazards it needs to make the shuffling exceptionally painful. While I normally opt for Powerwhip on my Ferrothorn, Ferroseed's lower speed and weaker grass attack in seed bomb make gyroball preferable. Ferro also quadruply resists grass and finds itself attracted to the voluptuous health pools of water types that aren't Slowbro. Slowbro throws fire around and is a meanie face.
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm (+SpD/-Atk), 0AtkIV
- Scald
- Will-o-wisp
- Recover
- Hex
What better partner for Ferro than Jellicent? (Tentacruel) What better partner for Jellicent than Ferro? (A dark type) Jellicent provides this team with a spinblocker that is hilariously in UU this gen and brings gifts of being on fire to the enemy team. Heh. A pyromaniac that's water type and the solution to the pyromania (run Slowbro!) that Ferroseed's scared of. For Hippowdon, it covers his weakness to ice better than Ferro and also resists water, but also attracts lightning to switch in on.
The team lacks ways of dealing with hazards, straight up sweeping, revenge killing, stopping Houndoom and would appreciate a cleric. Kabutops (with the new assault vest can take Mega Houndoom's +2 dark pulse in clear skies and respond with a max attack Aqua Jet for a guaranteed 2HKO) and Umbreon spring to mind. Sand didn't really get a lot of new toys this gen, the most awesome being Assault Vest rock types for Special tanking Shenanigans (or Tyranitar and suddenly Mandibuzz which are OU). The fact that this core functions better with non-sand mons though? Makes for much less of a stranglehold during team building.
Very nice core, but Hex is a bit of a gimmicky move, and running Will-O-Wisp + Scald seems a bit redundant. Other than that, there aren't many Pokemon who can get through this core besides Houndoom and Chandelure which are both easy to take care of with something like Hydreigon or perhaps Kedleo. This seems like a solid defensive core.
Remember that Hex got buffed to 65 (130 with status) this gen, so that hits hard for sure xD
I've had particularly good luck with this setup for the purely defensive MandiSlash core.
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Taunt
- Foul Play
(Aegislash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
With this set up, a lot of the threats that have been mentioned go away
Landorus:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 180-214 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Genesect:
252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 112-132 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 54% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
The only major threat to this core is Mamoswine, but if you can manage to get behind a Sub, Shadow Ball and Foul Play deal with it.
I think the great thing about this defensive core is that neither Aegislash nor Mandibuzz is a slouch on the uninvested side either. Mandibuzz can take neutral special hits fairly well, and Aegislash can take neural physical hits fairly well. And they can both hit decently hard with Foul Play and Shadow Ball.
Eh, scald's a direct attacking move that just has a chance of burn and since burn is my favourite status, I'd like more of a guarantee my opponent has it. I'm likely gonna toy with Jellicent's movepool a bit, but Hex has good synergy with how burn happy it is and only has a ~21% power drop (For comparison's sake Surf vs Scald is ~11% power loss and outrage vs dragonclaw is 33%) from Shadowball for a potential 62.5% power gain.
This is what I have been using and I have to say that it does decently in the OU Ladder:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Rest
Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Toxic
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Rest
Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Toxic
I'm actually using this core with Sludge Bomb over Knock Off on M-Venu, a physical spread on Roto and Taunt over Toxic on Mandi. Is really effective ! The cherry on top is using Heatran to compleate the FWG core and adding a Dragon resistance.This is what I have been using and I have to say that it does decently in the OU Ladder:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Rest
Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Toxic
Mandibuzz is a bulky beast and Foul Play is insane against a lot of physical threats
And once again, I completely neglect one of my Pokemon! First Goodra, and now Azumarill. You're right, in that Azumarill is a better fit for the core, and in addition, offers more of a Physical preference and a way to confront Dragons. I'll edit my previous post.
my favourite cores to use is on my new stall team and it consists of torn-t amoongus and slowbro while also having a volt turn core of Torn-t mega scizor rotom-h and mew. These cores have great synergy with each other and will wall a majority of the meta while not losing to mega lucario.
This is what I have been using and I have to say that it does decently in the OU Ladder:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Rest
Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Toxic
I have also used saur/rotom but with entei. Sacred Fire is beast mode, and it let's you put more damage onto rotom instead of going tanky. The team sweeper will appreciate the extra damage that a special attacking rotom/life orb Entei can do. I will try mandibuzz though, that looks solid as well
Ogami I've been using your suggestions, with a Ferrothorn as my last Pokemon, to great success, as there really isn't too substantial of a weakness, and Greninja is walled by Tentacruel. (Unless it carries the rare Extrasensory) Thanks again!
Meanwhile, I've actually found out that Megazard Y, Magnezone, and Chlorophyll Venusaur work pretty well together. Megazard Y has weaknesses to Rock, Electric, and Water, two of those three are resisted by Magnezone, and Venusaur can take Water-type attacks, while having its weaknesses to Psychic, Ice, and Flying resisted by Magnezone, and Megazard Y resisting Fire. Magnezone can also check Greninja, as Choice Specs Thunderbolt OHKOes unless Greninja is of a resisted type, and HP Fire won't OHKO unless it's Sun boosted.
Meanwhile, I've actually found out that Megazard Y, Magnezone, and Chlorophyll Venusaur work pretty well together. Megazard Y has weaknesses to Rock, Electric, and Water, two of those three are resisted by Magnezone, and Venusaur can take Water-type attacks, while having its weaknesses to Psychic, Ice, and Flying resisted by Magnezone, and Megazard Y resisting Fire. Magnezone can also check Greninja, as Choice Specs Thunderbolt OHKOes unless Greninja is of a resisted type, and HP Fire won't OHKO unless it's Sun boosted.
- Status