Tera Blast doesn't actually work because it's not a natural Flying type move.
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GG Godly Gift
- Thread starter Les2BG
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just learned that from dawoble lmao
still doesn't change the ability being broken
based
insane larp :sob: none of the bird are broken. free my goats.
genuinely tho. rain has to be up, rocks have to not be up, and u have to have everything on ur opp’s team at 50% to even pose a remote threat. did some council member just lose a tour match to the birds or smth
yeah ngl my first tour game of this tier I used this strat and it is not worth it. When it works it's awesome but it's a gimmick at the end of the day and getting up hazards or damaging Talon or even just sponging a hit are all realistic things you can do. This strat was not broken but I'm retired from this format bc it became a stallfest gg
as someone who tests the strat and 6-0d a team with just fletchling, it's broken.insane larp :sob: none of the bird are broken. free my goats.
genuinely tho. rain has to be up, rocks have to not be up, and u have to have everything on ur opp’s team at 50% to even pose a remote threat. did some council member just lose a tour match to the birds or smth
and rocks not being up + rain being up is easy with a somewhat competent team, + if your bird gets damaged you can just heal it with hwish or regular wish.
if you want a replay for proof, here's a replay of my fletchling team beating a comfey team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9godlygift-2275235896
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yeah its kinda like there are uncompetitive elements of the game that also end up getting banned, its not just a matter of what's broken
that's not what uncompetitive means
it quite literally is and you even detailed the entire first point in your previous post. id appreciate if we put more effort into our posts from this point on, if you care to argue over this with one liners lets move it to discord. im just responding like this to match the effort you're using
you can call anything matchup related, that's the game. I'm saying there were multiple ways to play around the strategy regardless of the matchup
i loved using the strat but there really, REALLY was not. you either needed a really bulky flying-resistant special wall and not to get unlucky with confusion hits (theyre going to come eventually) or somehow outlive and retaliate fast enough before the combo of hazards, tera flying, and cane hax wins.
hazards goes both ways and if you can get around Hatt (which a good team should be able to do anyway) then Talon is much less threatening. Ban is implemented though and nothing of value is really lost so it's nbd
stories is right, talonflame wasnt broken. it required:
- a ho build (it doesn't function unless you fully commit to it with kyurem-w and hatterene. kyu doesn't have the defensive stats to let you build balance here).
- giving up on having other wincons. kyu-w has middling stats and we banned swift swim. the best you can do here is throw on ogerpon-wellspring and hope for the best. leaning even further into talon strats with mons like samurott-hisui and iron treads was significantly more straightforward. the CCAT people made around fletchinder is a good example of this: https://pokepast.es/5fa50c215828adbf
- tera, else it can't get OHKOs - at which point you take damage and your speed is handicapped. read above, you have no other wincons.
talonflame teams immediately fold into garganacl, tyranitar, struggles into a LOT of things (ndm, groudon, spdef corv, comfey, any other priority higher than +1) and pretty much loses on the spot if it gets the 50/50 into opposing tera wrong (e.g. iron hands becomes a steel type, lives a hit and your gameplan is ruined). also to reiterate these teams are hyper offense. there are not enough breaking opportunities for confusion cheese to be a valid concern especially when talonflame is gambling the whole strategy on that 33% self-hit, please be real.
i get the argument that it's "unhealthy" [for balance] and i agree... but that's because it has a combination of high speed, base 170 spatk, and tera. that's also why swift swim got banned. and dragapult. and raging bolt. and ursaluna-bm. *flips your pokemon stats*. and chien-pao. and baxcalibur. and crawdaunt. and hawlucha. and kingambit. and the other ursaluna. council also banned kyurem-black and that's why chien-pao and hawlucha are the only naturally fast physical attackers on this list btw. pretty much the only bans that aren't because of absurd min/max donations are alomomola, volcarona, and gholdengo, and gholdengo had not appeared on any tiering surveys prior to its ban and frankly quickbanning it was an absurd overreach by a council that seemingly just didnt like playing around good as gold.
i don't care about gale wings on its own but there's definitely something to be said about just how many bans godly gift has gone through and how fruitless it all feels. hydrapple feels super broken right now and i'm fully expecting it to be banned, but as soon as it goes we'll be talking about the next tier of mons like maushold, iron hands, sneasler, ogerpon-w, and iron crown again.
an anonymous scholar in my DMs once said "HO tier run by stall council" and like, stall is pushing it but the sentiment is true. this tier is a HO carnival and i'm saying that with praise not with scorn, but pult bolt ursas pao gambit etc. alomomola and definitely koraidon should be free. banning them has accomplished little to nothing and short of banning every god with more than base 110 speed, 137 attack or 137 spatk you won't get the tier you're clearly gunning for until gen 10. embrace your child for who they are, not for who they should have been.
- a ho build (it doesn't function unless you fully commit to it with kyurem-w and hatterene. kyu doesn't have the defensive stats to let you build balance here).
- giving up on having other wincons. kyu-w has middling stats and we banned swift swim. the best you can do here is throw on ogerpon-wellspring and hope for the best. leaning even further into talon strats with mons like samurott-hisui and iron treads was significantly more straightforward. the CCAT people made around fletchinder is a good example of this: https://pokepast.es/5fa50c215828adbf
- tera, else it can't get OHKOs - at which point you take damage and your speed is handicapped. read above, you have no other wincons.
talonflame teams immediately fold into garganacl, tyranitar, struggles into a LOT of things (ndm, groudon, spdef corv, comfey, any other priority higher than +1) and pretty much loses on the spot if it gets the 50/50 into opposing tera wrong (e.g. iron hands becomes a steel type, lives a hit and your gameplan is ruined). also to reiterate these teams are hyper offense. there are not enough breaking opportunities for confusion cheese to be a valid concern especially when talonflame is gambling the whole strategy on that 33% self-hit, please be real.
i get the argument that it's "unhealthy" [for balance] and i agree... but that's because it has a combination of high speed, base 170 spatk, and tera. that's also why swift swim got banned. and dragapult. and raging bolt. and ursaluna-bm. *flips your pokemon stats*. and chien-pao. and baxcalibur. and crawdaunt. and hawlucha. and kingambit. and the other ursaluna. council also banned kyurem-black and that's why chien-pao and hawlucha are the only naturally fast physical attackers on this list btw. pretty much the only bans that aren't because of absurd min/max donations are alomomola, volcarona, and gholdengo, and gholdengo had not appeared on any tiering surveys prior to its ban and frankly quickbanning it was an absurd overreach by a council that seemingly just didnt like playing around good as gold.
i don't care about gale wings on its own but there's definitely something to be said about just how many bans godly gift has gone through and how fruitless it all feels. hydrapple feels super broken right now and i'm fully expecting it to be banned, but as soon as it goes we'll be talking about the next tier of mons like maushold, iron hands, sneasler, ogerpon-w, and iron crown again.
an anonymous scholar in my DMs once said "HO tier run by stall council" and like, stall is pushing it but the sentiment is true. this tier is a HO carnival and i'm saying that with praise not with scorn, but pult bolt ursas pao gambit etc. alomomola and definitely koraidon should be free. banning them has accomplished little to nothing and short of banning every god with more than base 110 speed, 137 attack or 137 spatk you won't get the tier you're clearly gunning for until gen 10. embrace your child for who they are, not for who they should have been.
I really don't want to make a long post so I'm just going to respond to a couple of things that really annoyed me when I read them even though I could have said the same thing about pretty much your entire post because I don't agree with absolutely anything you say ngl. To get back on topic, saying that talonflame isn't broken because sand/sun exists and then mentioning spdef corv (which doesn't exist in the meta), I think that's really looking for examples that can help your situation, even if they're flawed and either irrelevant or just not going to move things forward.
The restricts that have been made may not seem useful to you but honestly, comparing the meta of a few months ago to the current one is really not the same thing. Having played both, i can guarantee that at the very least you have other options/other possibilities compared to before.
If they're too strong, then it might as well be restrict. All we're trying to do is make the meta as enjoyable as possible so that as many archetypes as possible can be played. Imo we might as well try to find the best meta possible because we can always go back to the way things were and in this respect I think the recent restrict/ban policy has been particularly effective and has produced a much better meta.
restricting alomomola accomplished little to nothing ?
I don't see how you can think that we've gone from a meta where we were bored waiting for the 16 mola wish to be used (which invalidated 2/3 of the meta) to a meta where many more things are viable (either that have totally gained a new viability or that have managed to adapt to this change to stay up to date/be better). For Koraidon, the loaded dice set is just too strong and the god gives almost perfect stats, the period just before his ban was really almost unplayable, so I really just don't get it.(my message wasn't intended to be aggressive towards you specifically so sorry if you take it that way it wasn't intended.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9godlygift-814725?p2 here's my game against fc from majors.
https://pokepast.es/67ba3c81c47cd51e here's the team i used but with some speed investment altered for privacy. just because you don't use a pokemon doesn't mean it doesn't exist. also in my post i forgot to point out stealth rock. something as simple as a excadrill, or tinkaton + a spinblocker ended talonflame's life immediately, and anything else with stealth rock still put serious stress on those teams even if it's just a simple tusk or lando - i'd hope you'd agree with this, else i question why you haven't banned hatterene for shutting down every setter yet.
it feels like almost everyone playing this tier has had vastly different experiences and cannot agree on what pokemon are top tier which makes conversations like this frustrating. rayquaza is a c-tier god. eternatus is one of the best pokemon you can use on HO. lokix is an A tier mon and rotom-wash is B-tier. i have no idea where to even begin with any of these arguments because it turns out people are playing a completely different metagame with things i've never considered like goodra-hisui and are telling me to my face that spdef corviknight isn't real.
earlier today i saw betticus bring an arceus team with hp skarm, ekiller, lokix, physdef clef, and skeledirge lose to a generic HO team. the last game i saw before that was my own against icemaster where i similarly got beaten down by HO. i have also played both metagames, and while the pokemon featured may differ i do not believe the building trends have significantly changed.
you are not capable of this. there is no world where you can consistently (defensively) prepare for your opponent to bring any one of: a base 165 attack lokix, a base 170 spatk helectrode, and a base 138 speed iron hands. and these aren't even the best pokemon in each slot. i suggested banning every viable god that was stronger than lunala or faster than lugia and that was a genuine suggestion, as all you are doing at the moment is reducing options - many of which, like kingambit and raging bolt, had solid defensive typings that let them shore up weaknesses instead of being minmaxed gloryhogs like talonflame or maushold.
first off, you made a post in mid-september (here) talking about how alomomola was not broken, was hard to fit on teams, and was very easily abused by mons with stat-boosting moves or substitute, and it was banned in just two months after that post. i don't know what happened to you in that period but please don't pretend you were bored for very long. that said, banning it was a good move!
i didn't mean to suggest that banning alomomola didn't change the metagame, but instead only mentioned it because it was a very solid answer to various other offensive pokemon including koraidon, chien-pao, gholdengo, and many more. in light of this i'd like to see it return alongside them. the "nothing has changed" argument is certainly more relevant to the offensive pokemon in my post.
i also do not appreciate the false hope that "we can go back". you have made your tiering philosophy very clear and i'm of the opinion that the metagame peaked in may 2024 following the volcarona ban.
nothing i have said carries any intent to insult you or the rest of council but needless to say i do disagree with your post.
Yeah we have too different opinions for the discussion to be really useful so I'm not going to pursue it too much because we're both biased by what we play
that's true but in my analysis I had left aside the fact that even if it was abusable by certain pokemons with varying degrees of effectiveness, it was perhaps just not a good element for the meta to evolve (like when there was flutter mane in a way) and after talking about it with people I had reconsidered my opinion (I had 2 months to think about it which was more than enough in my eyes)
In general i just say that for convenience given the number of possible things in the tier so we don’t spend hours on it (I still don’t see what i'm playing has to do with it—I play Crown AV, yet I clearly say it doesn’t exist in the meta. And honestly this debate is leading nowhere because this bias affects all of us at least a little.) tho i will admit that corvi spdef is at the very least praticly inexistant imo
it should be free or restricted ? i didn't really understand ngl maybe because it's 2am at my place it could explain it a little
I think saying what exists in a meta and what doesn't for a medium-sized OM like this that only gets played at a relevant level in tournaments just doesn't really say anything. I had never seen the Talonflame structures until my debut game in OMPL but I didn't discount the strategy just because it wasn't common
It's certain that we'll have fewer things we can be sure about but I still think we can agree on at least around at least twenty Pokémon. After that it's definitely harder to gauge especially given the nature of GG you're right
yeah obviously like "slow cm mon in the speed slot" and "regen mon in the hp slot" are as guaranteed in life as death and taxes but I wouldn't ever really write off anything in this tier just because of how creative you really are able to me
It was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread but Talonflame was unbanned with Gale Wings being banned instead as Fletchinder and Fletchling still have the same access to Hurricane + a gifted SpAtk stat.