Excited to finally play this meta, after it coming 2nd a bunch
To clarify, this means that Zacian-C no longer gives 170 to the second position in the teambuilder, or 148 in the sixth position? If so, does it use base form Zacian's stats instead? This would give 130 and 138, respectively.The simulator has been patched to not acknowledge crowned (or zygarde-complete in national dex) formes when it comes to stat distribution, FYI, folks. I guess we'll see some more non-Zac-C teams, lol.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSThe simulator has been patched to not acknowledge crowned (or zygarde-complete in national dex) formes when it comes to stat distribution, FYI, folks. I guess we'll see some more non-Zac-C teams, lol.
Yeah, the Attack and Speed stats are the base forme's 130 and 138. You can double-check with a stat calculator.To clarify, this means that Zacian-C no longer gives 170 to the second position in the teambuilder, or 148 in the sixth position? If so, does it use base form Zacian's stats instead? This would give 130 and 138, respectively.Rip my teams
Swoobat @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Heat Wave
Toxtricity @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overdrive
- Shift Gear
- Sludge Bomb
- Boomburst
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun
Indeedee (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Hyper Voice
- Mystical Fire
- Trick
Rhyperior @ Life Orb / Choice Band / Weakness Policy
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Megahorn
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rock / Rock Polish
So I don't know about you guys, but after 10-20 games, there are a couple of things that stood out to me.
1. Regenerator Tangrowth and Toxapex need to go (Toxapex at the very least).
These two combined in OU are annoying enough, but when you can fix their only flaws (Spdef for Tangrowth, HP for Toxapex), they become ridiculous. Toxapex normally only has 50 base hp. Yet, with that, it has a reputation for walling nearly everything from OU and down.
Now in Godly gift nearly every uber will effectively double this stat, some of them like Eternatus triple it. Tangrowth similarly has 50spdef, which means it also gets doubled from nearly every uber god. Even with the Zacian level attack stats, these two can wall nearly everything.
What makes this worthy of a ban, is that they pair really, really well. One of them would be fine. But they use separate stats, can be thrown on any team, cover each other's weaknesses and when combined can heal on anything that doesn't have coverage for both of them.
2. Ditto might need a ban
I don't know how you guys feel with this mon or the ability imposter in general. But in any meta with a hp boost or hyper offense, i get tired of it really quickly. It basically denies all set up and reduces the effectiveness of offense singlehandedly. I really hate outplaying an opponent and having better team preparation, but then being forced to avoid set up or getting kills with my best mons, because they'll just copy it and sweep me back. It always feels so cheap and reminds me of hackmons with eviolite, imposter chansey...
3. Might be worth looking into weather bans.
Just another ability that eventually gets banned in every OM. As much as i dislike ditto/toxapex/tangrowth, they do provide a kind of balance against hyper offense. I tried out swift swim, adamant, 170 base attack seismitoad, life orb... It was absolutely broken. Drain punch, liquidation, poison jab, earthquake, covers nearly every possible threat and outspeeds even scarf mons.... A ban on the weather extending rocks might be more fair.
4. Eviolite
It hasn't been a consistent thing, but it does lead to a few problems. Corsola and Porygon 2 are examples of pokemon that become dangerously bulky with a stat boost like hp and an eviolite.
Thank you for patching the Zacian crowned issue. That was way too over-centralising. I came to comment on it, so I'm really glad it was changed.
I just needed to voice those concerns, particularly the first 2. It feels a little repetitive so far. But now Zacian crowned is gone, maybe that'll change. I hope to see some more variation out there soon. Have fun guys
After discussing this post with a couple users I want to add one important caveat to what I've said:I disagree with the people who have been saying that Toxapex is broken.
The HP boost is clearly a huge boon for it and it's a top tier, probably S rank Pokemon which must be taken into account when building. It's the best mixed wall and general catchall in the metagame.
But it's far from unbreakable.
First: I want to clarify something. It's impossible to boost Toxapex's bulk by more than 1.6x (1.59210526316...x :3). 140 base HP hits 484 raw HP while 50 base hits 304 raw. Still a significant boost, but not 'triple it', which is a very misleading way of looking at it.
Anyway:
There are a bunch of Pokemon capable of breaking your standard Toxapex. I'm going to go through some of them, but not all.
+2 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 474-560 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKOCode:Swoobat @ Grassy Seed Ability: Simple EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Calm Mind - Roost - Stored Power - Heat Wave
+2 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 338-402 (69.8 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
As you can see: Swoobat is capable of beating Toxapex with or without the Grassy Seed boost (although it's easier with). This is 140 HP Toxapex, the highest you can go.
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 283-338 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recoveryCode:Toxtricity @ Throat Spray Ability: Punk Rock EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Overdrive - Shift Gear - Sludge Bomb - Boomburst
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 252-299 (52 - 61.7%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Toxtricity Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
First calc is Lunala SpA (boosted, but not insane) second two are its normal SpA. Pex has 140 HP Growth has 95 SpD (both from Eternatus). Pex just dies, Growth gets Regen outdone and Poisoned. It's capable of breaking the Pex/Growth core all by itself, with or without Throat Spray being used, although it can't 1v1 Tangrowth well and has to hit it coming in.
252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 222-264 (45.8 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recoveryCode:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers Ability: Prism Armor EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature - Photon Geyser - Dragon Dance - Earthquake - Morning Sun
252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 265-312 (54.7 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
There are a bunch of possible NDM sets. I'm not going into all of them here. If they have Photon Geyser they break Pex.
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Psychic Terrain: 324-384 (66.9 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recoveryCode:Indeedee (M) @ Choice Specs Ability: Psychic Surge EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Expanding Force - Hyper Voice - Mystical Fire - Trick
Standard Indeedee breaks Pex. Most Indeedee boost either SpA or Speed, so don't be surprised to take more.
252 Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 242-283 (50 - 58.4%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recoveryCode:Rhyperior @ Life Orb / Choice Band / Weakness Policy Ability: Solid Rock EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature / Adamant - Earthquake - Rock Slide - Megahorn - Swords Dance / Stealth Rock / Rock Polish
252 Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 221-263 (54.7 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This guy needs Speed. But breaks the mentioned core nicely, even without SD.
.
.
.
These options all require minimal support and are fairly flexible to fit on teams, although their viability is somewhat mixed. I didn't want to have options that only fit on specific archetype because then the easy call is 'but what if I'm not running x team'. But since this is Godly Gift let me point out: almost every god gives access to absurd wallbreakers (if you're using Shuckle as a god IDK what to tell you ). I've found you can use that to crack even the toughest walls with smart play and smart builds.
Also use Swoobat it's insane swiggity-
no, pex banShould we look at a Zacian ban, though?