All right.... looks like I'm gonna have to suck it up. What are the absolute best counters to megagengar?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Gengar
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
- Status
Assault Vest Tyranitar (traps with Pursuit)
Specially Bulky Drapion (also traps with Pursuit)
Specially Bulky Skuntank (great typing for Gengar, also traps with Pursuit)
MegaScizor (as long as it doesn't have HP Fire, also traps with Pursuit, has good enough special bulk to handle it)
What Kejmur said. You can also try predicting around its subsitute and send Mega Absol in to its possible doom to try and sucker punch it. Other things can try this, but Mega Absol carries the best sucker punch. Aegislash can also try killing it with Shadow Sneak, and it's a safe switch-in to sludgebomb/wave and focus miss, but if you don't have rocks up you're probably sacrificing your disembodied weapons to the dark god that is Gengar.
If that's the case I think other than substitute, will o' wisp could be a good option for gengar to ruin those pursuiters.
This thing alone will probably be the end of several choiced pokes existence. That CB/Scarf Ape? Trapped and Dead if it uses a fighting move. CBLoom? You better not mach punch or else. Hell, I think anything choiced CANNOT use fighting moves now and/or must outspeed MegaGengar or else it is finished. Probably the biggest meta-definer we've seen in a while.
MegaGengar would undoubtedly centralize the OU tier if allowed. Its movepool grants it so many ways of punching holes in opposing teams. I have scanned the whole thread and people have been reaching very far in coming up with counters for this thing. When mons that were never meant to be OU like Drapion and Skuntank are being mentioned as possible counters, then there is a problem. I know its too early, but I just dont see it passing the first Suspect round. Remember when people were proposing Shed Shell Heatran to combat Gene/Duggy? How did that turn out for Genesect? A SubSplit MegaGar with hazards support can just sub and dance around any AssaultVest Tar or Drapion to avoid being trapped. I am currently testing a CB Infiltrator Spiritomb and it has had a lot of successing in trapping Gengar, but it sucks to have to reach down to the UU tiers and lower to find a good check for this thing.
Fuck subsplit, substitute etc. It's way more simple.
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond
focus blast does 90% to ferrothorn, KO ttar.
Sludge bomb eliminates fairies.
Shadow ball hits poisons and psychics KO weakened steels
Destiny bond is niche have only used it like once tbh.
Mega-Gengar would probably be broken even without shadow tag. It hardly even needs a suspects test, it can OHKO most pokemon with the right move. Nothing counter shadow tag, you just have to work around it. If that is wobbuffet no one cares, but this is kind of more like Mewtwo. Maybe something like assault vest zygarde could take some hits, but come on that's just dumb. Also shadow tag. If one of your mons go down or youl use uturn/voltswitch/baton pass you can send in mega gengar and they're dead. Unless they are a talonflame or they used DD. get me wrong I love gengar, but the OU metagame is not the right place for his mega evolution this generation.
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond
focus blast does 90% to ferrothorn, KO ttar.
Sludge bomb eliminates fairies.
Shadow ball hits poisons and psychics KO weakened steels
Destiny bond is niche have only used it like once tbh.
Mega-Gengar would probably be broken even without shadow tag. It hardly even needs a suspects test, it can OHKO most pokemon with the right move. Nothing counter shadow tag, you just have to work around it. If that is wobbuffet no one cares, but this is kind of more like Mewtwo. Maybe something like assault vest zygarde could take some hits, but come on that's just dumb. Also shadow tag. If one of your mons go down or youl use uturn/voltswitch/baton pass you can send in mega gengar and they're dead. Unless they are a talonflame or they used DD. get me wrong I love gengar, but the OU metagame is not the right place for his mega evolution this generation.
Last edited:
praise goodra ;) Sludge wave only does 25.8% - 30.4%. Even dazzling gleam does 31.7% - 37.3%.
I don't think that particular set is ban-worthy (it's undeniably good though). LO gengar actually outdamages mega-gar so the only benefit mega evolving gives is the speed. And the only threats I can think of that matter are alakazam, starmie, greninja, and other gengar.
There's plenty of pokemon in this meta that can outspeed and 2HKO any opposing mon. Gengar isn't unique in that regard. And it's vulnerable to choice scarf and all common forms of priority.
I'm not going to comment on shadowtag though.
I don't think that particular set is ban-worthy (it's undeniably good though). LO gengar actually outdamages mega-gar so the only benefit mega evolving gives is the speed. And the only threats I can think of that matter are alakazam, starmie, greninja, and other gengar.
There's plenty of pokemon in this meta that can outspeed and 2HKO any opposing mon. Gengar isn't unique in that regard. And it's vulnerable to choice scarf and all common forms of priority.
I'm not going to comment on shadowtag though.
What kind of goodra is that? Max HP assault vest takes a little less, maybe the standard is some speed idfk.
So does Sludge Wave get any notable OHKO's or 2OHKO's over Sludge Bomb? Or are people just saying that for 5BP and not walled by Chesnaught > 20% higher poison chance?
LO Gengar has just as much power and was never broken.
Remember when HA Chandelure was tested and deemed broken? It's like that but with higher stats.
He was also slower.
Though I do agree that it wouldn't be broken.
I think the speed tier really matters in this instance, as MegaGengar is quite amazing in that regard. I must admit though, I haven't had much trouble facing it: Assault Vest Tyranitar can easily tank a FB, and I've seen (and used) things like Scarf Mold Breaker Excadrill, which completely rapes MegaGar. MegaGar can't outspend all the scafers you want it to, which is what I think is its downfall.
Shadow Tag + DBond is pretty wicked though. It's horrifying to think about and to actually play against it is nerve wrecking.
Not sure if it's broken, but it's too early to tell.
Shadow Tag + DBond is pretty wicked though. It's horrifying to think about and to actually play against it is nerve wrecking.
Not sure if it's broken, but it's too early to tell.
Shadow Tag Chandy was able to hold a choice scarf though, letting it outspeed the entire unboosted tier, and that is what made it broken iirc. Being resistant to Bullet Punch also helped.
Speaking of Scarf HA Chandy, that might actually be a good check to Mega-Gar. Infiltrator will let it hit through a sub, for a guarantied OHKO with Shadow Ball.
IIRC, that also lets it get out of Dodge when a Pursuiter comes in to spank it, as long as it gets it up beforehand. Just have something that can give it back some HP love with Wish or the like when you get rid of Gengar's problem opponent and it can safely come back in.
I'd be surprised if Mega Gar doesn't go to Ubers, but isn't it against the rules to be discussing possible bans?
I'm not sure you understand how tiering works, at all.
I'm not sure you understand how tiering works, at all.
Completely different gen and mega gengar can't hold an item.
I gotta say, at the higher parts of PS (1800+) i have seen many more kangaskhans and mawhiles. Gengar is awesome, but losing levitate hurts him a lot, especially with all of the landorus-t's running around. Talonflame acrobat + priority hurts a lot. And Azumarill aqua jet. Assault vest Tyranitar and the infamous and now legal excadrill mess up gengar too. AND i f***ing hate focus blast. Not too sure Gengar is as broken as we think. However, shadow tag by itself and especially with destiny bond are mad annoying
Last edited:
Gengar is a pure glass cannon. He can throw out a lot of pain, very fast, but he cannot take hits well at all. Now, a well played Gengar is a nightmare, but still very dealable. I can't count the amount of times I have OHKOed Mega Gengars with a bullet punch or other Priority moves, and I have had my own OHKOed by priority moves.
Is he able to OHKO a lot of pokemon? Sure. Is he a big threat? Sure. But he isn't broken just yet. He needs to use up his item slot to evolve, and it uses up your one Mega Evolution per battle. I feel for what you are giving up, its a fair price.
Once Pokebank comes out, I'm sure he will be a bit less of a threat that he is right now.
Is he able to OHKO a lot of pokemon? Sure. Is he a big threat? Sure. But he isn't broken just yet. He needs to use up his item slot to evolve, and it uses up your one Mega Evolution per battle. I feel for what you are giving up, its a fair price.
Once Pokebank comes out, I'm sure he will be a bit less of a threat that he is right now.
Focus blast :D
I have already seen mega gengar over-centralize OU. The fact if you can not play anything on a team extremely weak to him or he will destroy your team with shadow tag.
Has anyone considered Baton Passing to Mega Gengar, Perhaps Shell Smash to provide even more power and speed. or something boosting its defensive stats to maybe allow it to take more hits. Sorry if this isn't a good idea Im new
- Status