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Yeah exactly, that's why I tried to make a difference between "spectator debates as entertainment" and "real debate". I see your point
 
Myzozoa said:
These ppl invent 'debate' as a form of intellectual hazing, a ritual designed to produce psychological conformity and obedience in impressionable young students. They assert that this ritual, debate, has discursive merits beyond its form, some sort of instantiation of an intellectualized wrestling show, but every once in a while the veil slips and the latent psychic violence the ritual is predicated on is revealed to all. The elites and students at oxbridge are imbricated in a web of power relations in which debate must reproduce the conclusions of a capitalist productive apparatus (i.e that black ppl are violent and a police state needs to be established to control them in mixed public spaces), when the black disabled student questioned the accessibility of the debate he needed to be forcibly removed from the space in the minds of the white occupiers/colonizers of intellectual hegemony (the rich dumb dumbs who get really into debate at oxbridge). the hl reel of the dude who leads the union and lodged a complaint of violence (later retracted) is critiques of occupy wall street based on the idea that society discriminates against rich ppl and a monologue on how the left needs to reclaim populism or smthg
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"Debate" is only a structure of rules that we use in order to discuss arguments and those rules can be changed at any time to make them more accessible. Unfortunately, people in positions of power - especially when talking about individuals they know rather than abstract concepts, like 'disabled people' or 'black people' - are loath to give accommodations in their communities because they fully recognize that the skills that it takes to survive as a disenfranchised minority make those same individuals far better at learning new skills, retaining information, and networking than those who haven't gone through similar trials.

I have a hidden disability where if I eat a particular thing, the walls of my intestine are attacked by my immune system and destroyed. This can give me symptoms similar to dementia where my body isn't absorbing the calories it needs. I chose a local job and informed them that I was recently diagnosed, that my disability won't affect my ability to do my job, I just have to be careful. I remember struggling through basic daily tasks like having to do the dishes, but because my job at the time didn't require any fine motor skills other than typing, I was actually really really good at it - I learned to manage through the pain and confusion. I was doing the work of five people at my company.

My supervisor had no access to this information, so they would often make snide comments about our disabled customers, statements along the line of 'people will try to pretend they're disabled' for things as simple as customers complaining about a lack of hand-rails available at our facilities or a sudden hospitalization. I've been disabled all of my life and they didn't actually have any real impact on my performance or ability to help people, so I ignored their statements.

However, I eventually left the company because they refused to accept a doctor's note for my hospitalization and I couldn't schedule my colonoscopy procedure as a result. It was clear that the folks who worked there didn't believe that I was sick, and had just assumed that I was another person that they had swept up into their scheme of finding underemployed college millennials. They assumed that I was disabled and incapable of improvement, despite the fact that they knew I was actively recovering from an autoimmune disease which is not normally life-threatening nor even noticable when managed correctly.

Little did my company know that I received a message from the other top performer months ago stating that our company was going under and that they didn't have the resources to actually fulfill their contract requirements, but had stayed because it was a convenient commute while I was recovering from my illness. After I left, the company folded within the month, as they were no longer able to fulfill the contract requirements with their client.

After I left, my doctors discovered that my illness wasn't being treated adequately and we managed to cut out all of the allergen from my diet. My neurological symptoms are slowly going away and I feel 10 years younger again. However, due to a quarter of a century of 'living like this,' my discipline and tolerance for stress are incredible. I'm still mostly bed-ridden, but I've been playing competitive Pokémon to keep me busy until I heal enough that I can walk without a cane again.
 
Misfit Reindeer said:
"Debate" is only a structure of rules that we use in order to discuss arguments and those rules can be changed at any time to make them more accessible. Unfortunately, people in positions of power - especially when talking about individuals they know rather than abstract concepts, like 'disabled people' or 'black people' - are loath to give accommodations in their communities because they fully recognize that the skills that it takes to survive as a disenfranchised minority make those same individuals far better at learning new skills, retaining information, and networking than those who haven't gone through similar trials.

I have a hidden disability where if I eat a particular thing, the walls of my intestine are attacked by my immune system and destroyed. This can give me symptoms similar to dementia where my body isn't absorbing the calories it needs. I chose a local job and informed them that I was recently diagnosed, that my disability won't affect my ability to do my job, I just have to be careful. I remember struggling through basic daily tasks like having to do the dishes, but because my job at the time didn't require any fine motor skills other than typing, I was actually really really good at it - I learned to manage through the pain and confusion. I was doing the work of five people at my company.

My supervisor had no access to this information, so they would often make snide comments about our disabled customers, statements along the line of 'people will try to pretend they're disabled' for things as simple as customers complaining about a lack of hand-rails available at our facilities or a sudden hospitalization. I've been disabled all of my life and they didn't actually have any real impact on my performance or ability to help people, so I ignored their statements.

However, I eventually left the company because they refused to accept a doctor's note for my hospitalization and I couldn't schedule my colonoscopy procedure as a result. It was clear that the folks who worked there didn't believe that I was sick, and had just assumed that I was another person that they had swept up into their scheme of finding underemployed college millennials. They assumed that I was disabled and incapable of improvement, despite the fact that they knew I was actively recovering from an autoimmune disease which is not normally life-threatening nor even noticable when managed correctly.

Little did my company know that I received a message from the other top performer months ago stating that our company was going under and that they didn't have the resources to actually fulfill their contract requirements, but had stayed because it was a convenient commute while I was recovering from my illness. After I left, the company folded within the month, as they were no longer able to fulfill the contract requirements with their client.

After I left, my doctors discovered that my illness wasn't being treated adequately and we managed to cut out all of the allergen from my diet. My neurological symptoms are slowly going away and I feel 10 years younger again. However, due to a quarter of a century of 'living like this,' my discipline and tolerance for stress are incredible. I'm still mostly bed-ridden, but I've been playing competitive Pokémon to keep me busy until I heal enough that I can walk without a cane again.
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I know exactly how you feel dude. A few months ago I posted a thread revealing that I was seriously ill after I was under fire for acting extremely impetuous in some Firebot threads. I stated that I would eventually have to have surgery for an unspecified illness that I would have to take a loan for. 4,500 to be exact. On Smogon, I felt safe from the hell that was my life. But, tomorrow will be the day.

The day I have surgery.

All my life I was the odd one out. When I was young, my parents took me on a vacation to New York for a week, and we strolled through Chinatown. My dad bought me a Winnie The Pooh plastic figure, and I played with it. When we got back to the hotel, it was time to go to bed. But I didn't want to. I thrashed and kicked and threw a tantrum, and in a fit of rage, I bit on to the leg of the toy, and immediately passed out. I woke up at the emergency room the next day, and it turned out that the toy was painted with illegal chemicals, and that I had lead poisoning. Because of this I suffered permanent brain damage that left me partially blind. My parents sued, but all the money in the world couldn't restore my health. Even though I was now blind and slightly narcoleptic, I didn't let it ruin my optimistic attitude. My family went back to Hilton Head, South Carolina, and bought a nice beach house near Myrtle Beach. Even though I had to take medication every day that would prevent me from falling into a coma, I still had a lot of fun.
Years passed. As a thirteen year old, I was finally drifting off to sleep when I heard my parents shouting at each other. Out of curiosity, I peaked downstairs. Suddenly, they stopped arguing, and glanced at me in contempt. In a calm voice, my mother told me to sit down, and then explained that I was adopted. I was, in all actuality, a Cajun-born mulatto baby who was adopted by two infertile jewish people, and my biological family was in shreds. Part of me didn't understand. I thought that I was stupid for not realizing that my parents had white skin and I had little brown skin. To this day I still cannot comprehend this.

As I became older, life started to get better. In 2009 I was diagnosed with autism, but I thought, "what else is new". I got good grades, a girl, a part-time job, and a four-year scholarship to Harvard University. That's right. HARVARD UNIVERSITY. I was so happy that in the middle of all my shortcomings, I had finally achieved something worthwhile. Something that I would be remembered for.

Then one night, everything changed.
I was walking home one night, when I collapsed. I completely blacked out. Even with my medication I had no control over what was happening. I felt a burning pain in my frontal lobe, and I screamed loudly. Blood gushed from my mouth, and soon, a woman in an empty mini-van quickly picked me up and I went to the hospital. Needles and shots and scans were consistent. I lay in my bed, thinking why my life had to be like this. One day, the doctor came back with a frown, and told me that I had a brain tumor.

The look on my mother and father's face is one that I will never forget. My mother wept loudly, and my father held her and whispered under his breath, "we failed".

And so, since then, my life has been torn to shreds. Scholarship? Gone. A blooming life ahead of me? Gone. I didn't see the point in living anymore. I had been given the boot.

I had dreams. I wanted to be an author, an investor. I wanted to be successful in life.
In Smogon, I also had dreams. I wanted to be a Team Rater, Contributor, Battle Server Moderator, Social Media Contributor, among other things. Even though at times I felt my journey was hopeless, I just continued for the heck of it.

One day, for my 23rd birthday, I received a present. I opened it. A Chromebook. That was cool, being able to surf the internet. Out of pure chance I stumbled upon Smogon. Smogon University was apparently a website about Competitive Pokemon. I remember that I used to be a fanatic at Pokemon circa 10 years ago. Curious, I joined the website after laddering on Pokemon Showdown for a few months, under the persona "Subjugator", which was short for "Substitute Jewish Alligator", a homage to my mother who passed of heart disease.
I don't know why I kept posting. I just got a kick. I met cool friends and bonds. I acquired a Rhyperior that would remain my partner until the end. In spite of the hell that was my life, Smogon was the fire that ignited me.

But, as some old wise guy once said, all good things come to an end. Tomorrow I will be operated, and the morality rate is 5%. Hopefully I will be able to continue being here, but most importantly-
If I am not online by Tomorrow Night, assume that I am dead.

I mean that. This experience has been awesome for me and I don't want it to end. I've talked with the surgeons and they gave me permission to update my status on websites at certain intervals.
 
Stratos said:
I know exactly how you feel dude. A few months ago I posted a thread revealing that I was seriously ill after I was under fire for acting extremely impetuous in some Firebot threads. I stated that I would eventually have to have surgery for an unspecified illness that I would have to take a loan for. 4,500 to be exact. On Smogon, I felt safe from the hell that was my life. But, tomorrow will be the day.

The day I have surgery.

All my life I was the odd one out. When I was young, my parents took me on a vacation to New York for a week, and we strolled through Chinatown. My dad bought me a Winnie The Pooh plastic figure, and I played with it. When we got back to the hotel, it was time to go to bed. But I didn't want to. I thrashed and kicked and threw a tantrum, and in a fit of rage, I bit on to the leg of the toy, and immediately passed out. I woke up at the emergency room the next day, and it turned out that the toy was painted with illegal chemicals, and that I had lead poisoning. Because of this I suffered permanent brain damage that left me partially blind. My parents sued, but all the money in the world couldn't restore my health. Even though I was now blind and slightly narcoleptic, I didn't let it ruin my optimistic attitude. My family went back to Hilton Head, South Carolina, and bought a nice beach house near Myrtle Beach. Even though I had to take medication every day that would prevent me from falling into a coma, I still had a lot of fun.
Years passed. As a thirteen year old, I was finally drifting off to sleep when I heard my parents shouting at each other. Out of curiosity, I peaked downstairs. Suddenly, they stopped arguing, and glanced at me in contempt. In a calm voice, my mother told me to sit down, and then explained that I was adopted. I was, in all actuality, a Cajun-born mulatto baby who was adopted by two infertile jewish people, and my biological family was in shreds. Part of me didn't understand. I thought that I was stupid for not realizing that my parents had white skin and I had little brown skin. To this day I still cannot comprehend this.

As I became older, life started to get better. In 2009 I was diagnosed with autism, but I thought, "what else is new". I got good grades, a girl, a part-time job, and a four-year scholarship to Harvard University. That's right. HARVARD UNIVERSITY. I was so happy that in the middle of all my shortcomings, I had finally achieved something worthwhile. Something that I would be remembered for.

Then one night, everything changed.
I was walking home one night, when I collapsed. I completely blacked out. Even with my medication I had no control over what was happening. I felt a burning pain in my frontal lobe, and I screamed loudly. Blood gushed from my mouth, and soon, a woman in an empty mini-van quickly picked me up and I went to the hospital. Needles and shots and scans were consistent. I lay in my bed, thinking why my life had to be like this. One day, the doctor came back with a frown, and told me that I had a brain tumor.

The look on my mother and father's face is one that I will never forget. My mother wept loudly, and my father held her and whispered under his breath, "we failed".

And so, since then, my life has been torn to shreds. Scholarship? Gone. A blooming life ahead of me? Gone. I didn't see the point in living anymore. I had been given the boot.

I had dreams. I wanted to be an author, an investor. I wanted to be successful in life.
In Smogon, I also had dreams. I wanted to be a Team Rater, Contributor, Battle Server Moderator, Social Media Contributor, among other things. Even though at times I felt my journey was hopeless, I just continued for the heck of it.

One day, for my 23rd birthday, I received a present. I opened it. A Chromebook. That was cool, being able to surf the internet. Out of pure chance I stumbled upon Smogon. Smogon University was apparently a website about Competitive Pokemon. I remember that I used to be a fanatic at Pokemon circa 10 years ago. Curious, I joined the website after laddering on Pokemon Showdown for a few months, under the persona "Subjugator", which was short for "Substitute Jewish Alligator", a homage to my mother who passed of heart disease.
I don't know why I kept posting. I just got a kick. I met cool friends and bonds. I acquired a Rhyperior that would remain my partner until the end. In spite of the hell that was my life, Smogon was the fire that ignited me.

But, as some old wise guy once said, all good things come to an end. Tomorrow I will be operated, and the morality rate is 5%. Hopefully I will be able to continue being here, but most importantly-
If I am not online by Tomorrow Night, assume that I am dead.

I mean that. This experience has been awesome for me and I don't want it to end. I've talked with the surgeons and they gave me permission to update my status on websites at certain intervals.
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lol this is a throwback...

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/subjugator-life-status-alive.3572602/
 
“I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Facebook’s complacency is a threat to our democracy. It has become clear that they do not take seriously the degree to which they provide a platform for white nationalist hate and dangerous misinformation in this country and around the world. And there is a clear reason for this: they profit off it. I believe their inaction is a grave threat to people’s lives, to our democracy and to democracy around the world.

“When private corporations don’t act, we as a nation need to think seriously about ways to address the spread of misinformation while protecting core values like free speech.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...rgeted-far-right-fake-news-operation-facebook

mainly what this piece made me think about was how effective disinformation has proven to be. Nowadays freedom of speech is taken out of proportion with the context being discussed so very often, but it used to be understood commonly that disinformation or crowding out by misinformation was an effective tactic to inhibit freedom of expression. It is particularly effective because it targets no one in particular just all actors attempting to embark on an evidence based discourse.
 
Myzozoa said:
mainly what this piece made me think about was how effective disinformation has proven to be. Nowadays freedom of speech is taken out of proportion with the context being discussed so very often, but it used to be understood commonly that disinformation or crowding out by misinformation was an effective tactic to inhibit freedom of expression. It is particularly effective because it targets no one in particular just all actors attempting to embark on an evidence based discourse.
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"Crowding out" doesn't inhibit freedom of expression. It just makes their platform has a smaller reach. Their expression of freedom is not being taken away. It's only an effective tactic against these in the position of power from their perspective.

Evidence based discourse always has been a relatively unpopular subject for people. It's just very important for powerful people. So, these powerful people try to make this discourse seem very important and so on. I'm not saying that this discourse is unimportant. It's just not relevant for majority of people. I think that it would be reasonable to expect evidence based discourse to become less popular when there are competing platforms for people's attention.

How can neoliberalism project its power when neoliberalism creates media environment where it can't get its propaganda heard?
 
yah none of that makes any sense, Omar isn't a neoliberal in the first place and is frequently condemned by the common sense understanding of 'the neoliberals' as the democratic establishment, second place the context is a coordinated hate campaign against her, the issue here is definitely not that neoliberal propaganda is being drowned out, but rather that disinformation is effective enough that political actors will invest a lot of money in spreading rumours and propaganda with dangerous consequences.
 
It doesn't matter if Omar is or isn't neoliberal for my point. The system that she speaks in is neoliberal. I hope that you can agree to this at least. Diversity and antihate message is neoliberal propaganda that is being drowned by millions of different propaganda. The media ecosystem allows the disinformation to spread because it only takes money to get your message to be heard. People appear to prefer to consume disinformation than information. Therefore, there will be more returns on the capital to spread disinformation, rather than truthful information.
 
orch said:
It doesn't matter if Omar is or isn't neoliberal for my point. The system that she speaks in is neoliberal. I hope that you can agree to this at least. Diversity and antihate message is neoliberal propaganda that is being drowned by millions of different propaganda. The media ecosystem allows the disinformation to spread because it only takes money to get your message to be heard. People appear to prefer to consume disinformation than information. Therefore, there will be more returns on the capital to spread disinformation, rather than truthful information.
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ah yes, the old 'nothing is real, the world is all a lie, and the end is nigh'. i do not think diversity and anti-hate are neoliberal propaganda, to assert such is a convenient way of apathetically accepting any instance of hateful or violent rhetoric on the pretext that what, to not allow ppl to incite violence is neoliberal propaganda? give me a break you can do better than that. because hate speech is profitable the neolibs continue to shrug and say go for it little hitlers, just like they did in weimar, but that just shows that being anti-racist isn't some neoliberal propaganda. However, I applaud this mindnumbing take on events, since truly we are all lacking this type of disingenuous apathy in our lives in 2019, oh wait I got plenty of it from my neoliberal baby boomer parents.
 
Myzozoa said:
i do not think diversity and anti-hate are neoliberal propaganda, to assert such is a convenient way of apathetically accepting any instance of hateful or violent rhetoric on the pretext that what, to not allow ppl to incite violence is neoliberal propaganda?
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You want thinkcrime. You're not willing to accept that some people may hate other people for any arbitrary reason. You want to erase a deeply human natural feeling of hate. Equivocating hate with violence is disingenuous and you know it. I bolded the "or" to show how you sneaked in the equivocation in your rhetoric. Saying that hate leads to violence is a plain lie and leads to deeply misinformed discussion that crowds out the evidence based discourse.

If you want to read more about how neoliberalism directly caused the current atmosphere of antihate and diversity messages in the media environment:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/2/11/18195868/capitalism-race-diversity-exploitation-nancy-leong
I think there are a lot of overlapping motivations. One is virtue signaling: “Look at how inclusive and diverse this company is.” Another is as a defense against racism: “I can’t be racist because my best friend is black.” Another is purely economic: “Our movie will bring in a bigger audience if we cast this popular actor of color, even in a small role.”
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Racial capitalism is very common, and it’s often done by well-intentioned people who are completely unaware they’re doing it.
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"Racism is bad" is not propaganda no matter how much you want to say it is.
orch said:
You want thinkcrime. You're not willing to accept that some people may hate other people for any arbitrary reason.
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where did the notion of this being illegal did this ever come up...?
orch said:
If you want to read more about how neoliberalism directly caused the current atmosphere of antihate and diversity messages in the media environment:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/2/11/18195868/capitalism-race-diversity-exploitation-nancy-leong
Click to expand...
this has nothing to do with the topic at hand and you just want to spread the good word of liberals bad
 
orch said:
You want thinkcrime. You're not willing to accept that some people may hate other people for any arbitrary reason. You want to erase a deeply human natural feeling of hate. Equivocating hate with violence is disingenuous and you know it. I bolded the "or" to show how you sneaked in the equivocation in your rhetoric. Saying that hate leads to violence is a plain lie and leads to deeply misinformed discussion that crowds out the evidence based discourse.

If you want to read more about how neoliberalism directly caused the current atmosphere of antihate and diversity messages in the media environment:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/2/11/18195868/capitalism-race-diversity-exploitation-nancy-leong
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nope, no lies from me.

me saying that ppl shouldnt be able to pay facebook to advertise incitements to violence =/= introducing thought crime. also id love to see your 'evidence' that there is no connection between hatred and violence lol, what a hill to die on. I agree that capitalism has exploited the discourse of diversity and multiculturalism, but these are still perfectly reasonable concepts that shouldn't be discarded because capitalists found they could use them to make their crappy economic system sound more palatable. Capitalists profit from hatred too, so you know they'll use and do w.e to maintain the system, playing both sides, however, the idea that giving up on inclusion is going to lead to a more fair economic or political system is unsupported by any evidence that i am aware of, and seems like some sort of crypto-fascist move towards 'national socialism', i.e, an economic system supposed to only serve an ethnically defined class of citizens.
 
Can someone explain to me what exactly it means for the House Democrats to have put out articles of impeachment against Trump? Generally curious since I'm not sure how the impeachment process goes. Does this mean he is officially 'impeached' in the same way Nixon/Clinton was, or is it more of just a formality for the senate/rest of the house to vote on?
 
It means that they will have a vote on whether to impeach him (as Clinton was; Nixon wasn't). Once he is impeached there will be a Senate trial.

Of course, it's all a formality as the Senate will almost certainly clear him. As a criminal lawyer, I find it insane; there is enough evidence that I would be confidence in securing a conviction in criminal court. Yet another reason that, as a native Romanian, I find the American system rather baffling. Strange times, indeed.
 
Peacetime defense spending is the greatest socialist success in America's history, providing guaranteed education, employment and healthcare to millions who would otherwise go without them. It is rivaled only by the success of the disability benefits system as a (non-universal) basic income in the South.
 
shesukmedry said:
Peacetime defense spending is the greatest socialist success in America's history, providing guaranteed education, employment and healthcare to millions who would otherwise go without them. It is rivaled only by the success of the disability benefits system as a (non-universal) basic income in the South.
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Have you heard of the term "speak softly and carry a big stick?"
 
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