Firstly, let me say I fully support this idea, secondly-this tier has potential. Thirdly, what the hell are the people wanting this to be created/thinking doing? The list at the start of this is utter crap-and outdated, I know-but we need clear guidlines on what'd be available. We need this to be obviously different than NU, otherwise we'd have the same problems that NU/RU deal with-a blurry line. Now, I suggest that we ban certain pokemon from using evolite, and we also ban certain items, and that we ban certain abilities. Pokemon that are a threat cause of their ability(Zangoose) could join PU without it(Example, not a perfect one as it still can viably run a choice set with that high attack). Another thing that should be discussed is the obvious cut off point. We don't want pokemon that can be used in NU, we want a different tier completely. A large amount of pokemon from LC should be allowed.... How is testing, is there a secret list that shows the current possible PU pokemon?
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Metagame Gen V PU - NU in NU
- Thread starter Dell
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I'm not sure what you mean. The list in the beginning is showing the January 2013 stats, so I don't see what is the problem. Tiers change every 3 months, so the PU list won't change until the end of THIS month. Also, besides the fact that this isn't an official metagame, a tier doesn't just ban things right off the bat without testing and a lot of debate; I see no reason why PU should be any different. Everything is based off of usage stats, so arguing that certain items be disallowed (Eviolite) is merely subjective and thus requires a majority of players to decide on that, not just you. As for you not wanting Pokemon that can be used in NU to be available...that is impossible. PU is based on the usage stats of NU, so it is pretty much impossible NOT to use NU Pokemon, because anything in PU is also useable in NU. This is the same way the RU and UU tiers are decided (based on the tiers above them), so that isn't going to change. The cut-off point for all tiers is 3.41%, which is a very low percentage already. As for having a secret list, please elaborate more on that.
Ah, sorry, I missed a few parts of this in my skimming. I retract my earlier statement about supporting this as it's not a good idea nor what I was hoping/expecting it to be. Secret list as in, I seriously was wanting to see a whole list of pokemon in this tier and I couldn't see it-probably due to how late it was and the scrambled state of my brain at the time. e-e I was hoping/assuming this would be a teir that was for the lower class pokemon that couldn't even have a good chance to be in NU instead of these constantly Moody changes. When I was reading this I thought it was something... Better. Elaborating, I thought it would be the playground of the loser pokes like it intinially seems. Which explains the things I said.. Again, sorry for the confusion.
If you want a list of viable pokemon i have one. Its alphabetized and even has a separate list for possible NFEs.
I'd actually like that. It'd be helpful in something else and if I decide to play this. :P
Awsome Ty for those changes i was wondering what the were! I will edit that soon as well as edit this post with the list(the lis is in post 2 as well as a list of IMO possible NFEs)i have a few for analyses done on the link but there not to great and are going to be edited soon!
I don't want this thread to die, so I'll ask a couple of questions.
Rotom-F is now PU, meaning that it becomes a premiere revenge killer. It also has a very useful SubSplit set that can really annoy slower teams. How does it affect the metagame?
In PU, many Pokemon are viable obviously; however, the most efficient ideal is to find a role that the specific Pokemon is NOT outclassed by. What roles are desperately needed that provide lesser used Pokemon with a good enough niche to be used more?
Take for instance a Rapid Spinner. With the most popular ones in Wartortle, Armaldo and Torkoal being clear-cut NU Pokemon, PU has to rely on Sandshrew as one of its best Spinners and defensive tank. Same with Tentacool on the special side. They have very little comptetiton for this role, and have their own niches to not be outclassed.
Rotom-F is now PU, meaning that it becomes a premiere revenge killer. It also has a very useful SubSplit set that can really annoy slower teams. How does it affect the metagame?
In PU, many Pokemon are viable obviously; however, the most efficient ideal is to find a role that the specific Pokemon is NOT outclassed by. What roles are desperately needed that provide lesser used Pokemon with a good enough niche to be used more?
Take for instance a Rapid Spinner. With the most popular ones in Wartortle, Armaldo and Torkoal being clear-cut NU Pokemon, PU has to rely on Sandshrew as one of its best Spinners and defensive tank. Same with Tentacool on the special side. They have very little comptetiton for this role, and have their own niches to not be outclassed.
I'm actually of the opinion that Anorith is the best spinner in the tier due to it actually having an offensive presence, unlike any of it's competition. Good offensive typing and movepool, 95 Attack, 75 Speed, and Swords Dance set it apart. It (along with lolDelibird) is the second fastest spinner available after Staryu. Its main drawback is being weak to Stealth Rock, but I think its offensive benefits make up for it.
EDIT: Shellder is another good, overlooked one thanks to its access to Shell Smash
EDIT: Shellder is another good, overlooked one thanks to its access to Shell Smash
@WhiteDMist-I dont want it to die either thats why i posted the link. I think it will become a very Powerful Pokemon in Pu but will require Rapid Spin support(or not)due to his SR weakness. But it will definitly make a big splash. Also does Whirlepeade get Rs if so it can be a great spinner
@Adonzo-I never considere him ill try that and of course why waste shell smash?
Lol speaking of She'll Smash yall are forgetting a Good Spinner with Access to Spikes. Dweeble. It can go offensive and defensive, while still maintaining a offensive pressure with Rock Blast which demolishes pain split.
I have to sets for Dweeble
Dweeble@Salac Berry
Trait:Sturdy
Nature:Admant/Jolly
Ev:252 Atk/252 Spe
-Rock Blast
-X-Scissor
-Earthquake
-Shell Smash
With great coverage with his STABS and earthquake to to make up for missing out on steels with stab this little guy can become a monster at x2 Atk and x2.5 speed. Where did that other stat boost come from. The Salac berry hat it consumed after you knocked it down to sturdy and is now outspending your entire team. And the only thing that can stop him is Priority and the fastest scarfers and Dragon Dancers who can get some boost before dying which isn't easy.
Dweeble@Eviolite
Trait:Sturdy
Nature:Impish
Ev:252 Hp/252 Def
-Rock Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
This set makes Dwebble a bulk mofo that can take hits all day while setting up hazards and RSing your opponents as they trie to set with you. Rock Blast breaks though subs and keeps you from being taunt bait
@Adonzo-I never considere him ill try that and of course why waste shell smash?
Lol speaking of She'll Smash yall are forgetting a Good Spinner with Access to Spikes. Dweeble. It can go offensive and defensive, while still maintaining a offensive pressure with Rock Blast which demolishes pain split.
I have to sets for Dweeble
Dweeble@Salac Berry
Trait:Sturdy
Nature:Admant/Jolly
Ev:252 Atk/252 Spe
-Rock Blast
-X-Scissor
-Earthquake
-Shell Smash
With great coverage with his STABS and earthquake to to make up for missing out on steels with stab this little guy can become a monster at x2 Atk and x2.5 speed. Where did that other stat boost come from. The Salac berry hat it consumed after you knocked it down to sturdy and is now outspending your entire team. And the only thing that can stop him is Priority and the fastest scarfers and Dragon Dancers who can get some boost before dying which isn't easy.
Dweeble@Eviolite
Trait:Sturdy
Nature:Impish
Ev:252 Hp/252 Def
-Rock Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
This set makes Dwebble a bulk mofo that can take hits all day while setting up hazards and RSing your opponents as they trie to set with you. Rock Blast breaks though subs and keeps you from being taunt bait
Whirlipede doesn't get Rapid Spin. Dwebble is a decent Pokemon, but it doesn't either...
Kabuto can also be a really good Rapid Spinner as it can has amazing defensive stats with Eviolite, although its HP leaves a lot to desire. It can potentially sweep too as it has Swift Swim and can use Rain Dance.
Kabuto
Item: Eviolite
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 36 HP/196 Atk/36 Def/236 Spe
Moveset:
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Rock Slide
-Rapid Spin
Kabuto
Item: Eviolite
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 36 HP/196 Atk/36 Def/236 Spe
Moveset:
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Rock Slide
-Rapid Spin
Oops thought it did my bad, and that sucks for Whirlepeade. Kabuto is better off either support or a sweeper i would try putting the sets together so i would replace Rain Dance with toxic ro another support move like SR
I have testing stall team on PU tier and work wonderful, i just can win easy via team matchup in a lot of matchs, my stall team: http://pastebin.com/FdfWaKJs Have a few problems only and i can play around them.
i think that combusken is one of the single greatest threats in this metagame. i mean just look at the top used mons, and how many of them fall to the set of substitute, protect, fire blast, focus blast with modest and a life orb. its damn near impossible to wall unless you're using something like mantyke
In answer to your question Whitedmist, Baltoy is hands down the best spinner in PU and NU. Walls some huge threats on the physical and special side, plus access to rocks and good support moves such as trick room that is unavailble to the likes of sandshrew and tentacool. Psychic typing is both a blessing and a curse at the same time unforetunately, due to the prevalence of bug moves in the tier
In PU, probably it is, but it is not the best spinner in NU. It has common weaknesses and is not super bulky.
Yeah, that really wasn't my question (What roles are desperately needed that provide lesser used Pokemon with a good enough niche to be used more?), but I appreciate your reply. I have yet to use Baltoy, so please explain to me why you claim it to be the 'best' Spinner in PU? A "good" Rapid Spinner has to have at least one method to try and get around Ghost-types. What method does Baltoy use? I also completely disagree with your claim that it is the best spinner in NU, since it isn't really even worth a second look to me and probably many other NU players. But I digress. Baltoy also doesn't really wall; it is more of a pivot since it lacks any way to replenish HP except Rest (which is seriously a bad idea for a Spinner).
Ok so for me in my team constructs I like to have a rapid spinner which is also carries hazards to allow for extra space on the team. In PU spin blockers are less common (shedinja, lampent and frillish being the most commonly used) so getting around the spinblocker is less frequent but still provides the same problem for sandshrew and tentacool (the two best pu spinners) as it would for baltoy. Baltoy like sandshrew resists rocks but unlike sandshrew has the levitate for spikes and t-spikes immunity and that ground immunity, as well as rain and sunny day support. Tentacool nor sandshrew has any form of recovery. Baltoy's lack of "walling" capabilities stop at 393 sp def for max sp def with eviolite or 344 on the def side with max def. A defence partnership with the likes of wormadam steel or mawile help to counter weaknesses.
OK whilst the claim that baltoy makes for one of the best spinners in nu may have been premature it like any other spinner possess unique advantages over the other spinners available. I like to use it because it isn't weak to the thing its trying to get rid of, I find weakness to rocks counter intuitive drastically cutting the survivability of your rapid spinner and one of your walls, (one of the reasons i will never use torkoal- as well as the awful defensive typing).
Also wartortles only form of recovery is rest
It's one thing to be a Spinner weak to hazards; it's another thing to lose to the spinblockers (while being weak to their STAB!) and be setup bait for almost anything without Pikachu-defenses really.
You do realize that none of the spinners can actually heal themselves without Rest, right?
I'm not suggesting that I use baltoy as the backbone of the team that when they bring in that ghost type I switch to baltoy to try and take it on, or when they bring in the spin blocker i leave baltoy in to try and take a super effective stab move. Why would anyone do that, obviously you switch out, make predictions and play with the other 5 pokemon on your team....
Delibird, torkoal, armaldo, staryu, spinda - all barring staryu can have lefties, staryu can get recover
you guys really need to try running anorith -.-
base 75 speed is excellent for a spinner, and coupled with base 95 attack it sure as hell doesnt lack offensive presence. rock stab allows it to smash lampent and shedinja, but the main appealing thing is that speed, since it can get off a speedy spin against any slower pokemon. anorith is also relatively bulky with eviolite, has access to Stealth rock, and nifty moves such as knock off if thats your cup of tea. only real downside is obviously being weak to stealth rock, but imo the positives far outweigh the negatives
base 75 speed is excellent for a spinner, and coupled with base 95 attack it sure as hell doesnt lack offensive presence. rock stab allows it to smash lampent and shedinja, but the main appealing thing is that speed, since it can get off a speedy spin against any slower pokemon. anorith is also relatively bulky with eviolite, has access to Stealth rock, and nifty moves such as knock off if thats your cup of tea. only real downside is obviously being weak to stealth rock, but imo the positives far outweigh the negatives
That's the point isn't it? Baltoy can't perform his main job if the Ghosts can come in and force him out all the time, unlike most other Spinners who can take at least one of the spinblocker's hits.
Forgot Staryu I'll give you that, it does well against Frillish and Lampent too.
Yeah. I wonder why it's not discussed much, I think it's pretty decent for a spinner. BTW, will there ever be a viability thread for PU? Or is it too complex that the tier doesn't need it? I really want to get into PU more often, but I want to know what is usable other than what is mediocre like Pidgeot and Grovyle (idk if they're actually good though, lol).
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