Hello! I've already collected all gold symbols so I'm not trying to achieve any streaks, but I was just wondering why the restriction for XD special moves is so stringent for Pike Glitching. I'm asking because I'd like to try a Will-o-Wisp/Morning Sun Moltres on some battle facilities, but the RNG for one is far, far more difficult than on FRLG. I'd imagine there's probably less than 50 (20?) people in the world that can RNG the legendary birds in XD correctly without the use of Homebrew and all that, not to mention the autosave right after the Greevil battle. I'd just like to know everyone's thoughts are; I'll be experimenting with my Moltres from FR regardless of it makes any streaks or not. Thanks in advance!
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Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Valentino23
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I'm sorry if I didn't properly understand this however am I allowed to pike glitch to teach my Colosseum metagross meteor mash for the level 50 challenges? because metang learns it at level 50 then evolves into him. but since your catching the metagross as is he doesn't know it? its weird grey area that i wanted clarification and i hope i can since any other metagross in this situation could! I want to rng manip a shiny one and would love to use it once i get it!
I have reached an “unbreakable” 317 streak in Arena! I elated at reaching an absurd 300+ streak and I am extremely happy at even how I lost (see below). I am immediately retiring from this facility forever with the record. Thank you to Actaeon and Jellal for watching most of the streak. This team is completely optimized and truly the best Arena team that there is. This team is also much better in Level 50 (no Tyranitar who is too dangerous and sand creates a problem for reversal medicham and is far too bulky for Latios to truly cheese through consistently enough).
GODDESS (F) (Snorlax) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 244 Def / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Yawn
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
ENKIDU (M) (Latios) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
RVSL BUDDHA (F) (Medicham) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
- Endure
- Reversal
If you notice, this team has made some changes that fundamentally changes the way the team plays.
- Impish nature on Lax that allows you to hits from the most powerful hits from physical attackers. These changes are huge (+) overall. Snorlax is unkillable barring OHKO moves, critical hit fighting moves and bad RNG with confuse ray/ bright powder/double team misses.
- 170+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 236 HP / 244+ Def Snorlax: 86-102 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
- +1 170+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 236 HP / 244+ Def Snorlax: 130-153 (49 - 57.7%)
- 252+ Atk Ursaring Double-Edge vs. 236 HP / 244+ Def Snorlax: 107-127 (40.3 - 47.9%)
- Shadow ball instead of Return, which allows you to hit psychic types super effectively. Compensates for less special bulk and is now able to rest on turn 2 or turn 3 instead of being forced to muscle past targets like Latios with Return.
- Substitute instead of Calm Mind on Latios, which protects you from more status compared to Cheri. Also provides additional protection against OHKO moves, allows you to scout for sets, allows you to fish for misses (ie Heracross's megahorn) and allows you to protect your health a little more- having a sub up against the next target is ABSOLUTELY valuable.
- Opposite Genders on Snorlax/Latios/Medicham. (F/M/F)
- Petaya Berry on Latios which still allows you to get an emergency boost in SpA after living a hit. Evs are also divisible by 4 to ensure Petaya Berry activates at 25% health and STILL lives Ursaring’s double edge
- 252+ Atk Ursaring Double-Edge vs. 36 HP / 4 Def Latios: 135-159 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notable Plays
- EQ, Rest, EQ – against Metagross. Easily live a MM and a +1 MM from a Meta.
- MUST attack water/ice types with lum/chesto turn 1 – ie Lapras, Kingdra, Regice.
- Shadowball hits psychic types super effectively, allowing you to rest against Latios/Latias and still win, rather than bruteforcing it with return (usually at less than half hp)
- Attack vs Shiftry (Scout for Fake out variants)- If you dodge one mega kick, you rest.
- Double Yawn is now a viable play against Lum pokemon like Charizard (completely eliminates the risk of a critical hit dragon claw)
- Psychic, Sub, Psychic is a viable play against targets that would be koed by a +1 (ie Regirock) or give you just enough extra power to muscle past bulky water like lapras.
- 244 SpA Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 77-91 (41.1 - 48.6%)
- +1 244 SpA Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 115-136 (61.4 - 72.7%)
Drawbacks of the change
- Walled by Shiftry- likely tie or loss. Can have early bird, which makes keeping up a substitute not guaranteed
- Can easily tie if not lose to double team Ludicolo/ Regice with bad misses (Return is missed here- leftovers can heal Regice/Ludi up to full)
- Tie likely against Lum Lapras /BP Porygon 2//Kingdra/Regice without return/brick break. Can’t outdamage or hit super effectively
- Walled by “pidgeys and fearows”
- Loses a noticeable amount of special bulk (physical threats are more dangerous overall and psychic types need a lot of luck to cheese through anyway)
- 252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 236 HP / 20 SpD Snorlax: 77-91 (29 - 34.3%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO
- 252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. -1 236 HP / 20 SpD Snorlax: 117-138 (44.1 - 52%)
Greta Battle
- Only way to lose is a double confuse ray from Umbreon on turn 1 AND turn 2. Otherwise you win GUARANTEED.
Analysis of Loss.
Double Horn Drill from Rhydon and a critical hit from Metagross. No way to avoid that unless you “predict” that it was going to critical hit there or that it would get a 1/16 roll.170+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 115-136 (84.5 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(115, 116, 118, 119, 121, 122, 123, 125, 126, 127, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 136) - Medicham has 136 HP.
Reversal also does not do nearly enough, unless you have a full power reversal (5 hp and less).
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham Reversal (200 BP) vs. 170 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 186-219 (105.6 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
https://pokepast.es/f0dd63107fdf334e
https://www.kapwing.com/videos/640e458f2662ab0017bc10a9
Attachments
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Hello, the reason why is because XD Pokemon have limited IV spreads due to a mechanic called nature lockes where not all legal XD spreads will be hittable. This may not be the case for Moltres because since Greevil uses a party of 6 Shadow Pokemon, nothing is locked. However, due to how different both generation methods are (FRLG uses Method 1) I wanted to keep this fair to both players who can RNG on retail console as well for those who do it on an emulator. If you actually just need an RNG'd XD Moltres, I can give you one. After all, I also run the Bank of Hoenn server which its main purpose is to share difficult to obtain Pokemon like these to players who are really interested on participating on the leaderboard :)
That is actually a good question. I would allow it, as a notable exception on this list, simply because on this case, we are talking about a regular move which Metagross is locked out simply because of its met level. This is not a purification move, so I would say it's fine if you want to use Meteor Mash.
Good day everyone, I'm here again to report my new streak of 133 Championships in Battle Dome Doubles Open Level. I mostly play Battle Tower Doubles because that is the facility I enjoy the most considering I used to casually play VGC a long time ago. However, the Battle Dome can actually be quite fun since it has team preview, but at the same time it's way less forgiven for "bad luck" and misplays than Battle Tower Doubles. In BT since one has 4 mons, one can make up for misplays or bad luck with the Pokemon in the back. Not in Battle Dome obviously. So, on my first run, I tried to use the same BT team I've been using for my streaks, but I only won 65 Championships. Lost at the 66th.
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpA / 6 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
Tauros @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 218 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Swampert (F) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 90 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
I lost to a quick claw Metagross explosion. If I remember correctly, the NPC led with Metagross and Registeel vs. My Latios and Swampert, I protected with Latios first turn fearing T1 explosion and EQ'ed with Swampert. Metagross survived with very low HP and Registeel avoided it with Brightpowder. Next turn, Metagross' quick claw activated and used explosion. Needless to say, Registeel survived it, but not my Pokemon. Not calling this bad luck. I totally misplayed: Did not alternate protect T2 like I should've had, and just lost.
Although I love Tauros in BT Doubles, I did not feel it in this facility. CB can be quite tricky to play around sometimes. I always feared that I would get stuck with a move and lose because of it. Eg: Going for EQ, expecting Latios to KO the flying type/levitating Pokemon but failing at doing so for whatever reason (missing, QC from the other Pokemon, brightpowder, etc), Latios fainting and then being stuck on EQ with Tauros, straight up losing the game.
I replaced it with Cheri Berry Metagross. Everyone loves Metagross but me for some BF facilities. Every time I've tried using it, it has been just meh. There are way too many fast fire types out there. However, since this facility has team preview I thought it would be a nice option. Explosion is handy, but one has to be careful not to just braindead spam it in every situation. For instance, there is a Blissey set that has brightpowder. Imagine I lead Latios + Metagross, I go for protect + explosion, and Blissey avoids it then it's gg. The same goes for various brightpowder/protect sets.
I decided not to run protect on this Metagross because I felt it was not necessary and also I'm almost never bringing it vs. a direct threat.
Swampert works almost the same way as in my BT team. It has substitute which again, is a decent way to play around explosion, and to deal with some counter sets, especially Blissey's. It's great against the Regis, fire types, Rhydon, Metagross, Tyranitar, Steelix, etc.
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpA / 6 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
Metagross @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
Swampert (F) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 90 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
There are two Pokemon that I fear a lot: Rhydon and Heracross. Since I'm no longer using Tauros to get Rhydon in -1 attack, Megahorn is 1HKO on Latios. A T1 QC Megahorn is not fun at all on Latios. I always try to Protect Latios and EQ with Swampert when I'm facing a Rhydon. Depending on IVS of the opponent, sometimes it 1HKO it and some others do not, meaning that in many instances I have no choice but pray the QC does not activate T2. Of course, In case it's one of the megahorn sets. Again, the other QC Horn drill spamming sets are not fun at all either... So yeah, Rhydon is pretty annoying.
Now, Heracross. It has a brightpower and a focus band set. They can be quite scary, especially the brightpower one.
Did not have close calls with them during these runs, but I always knew they were scary mons to face. So yeah, explosion, Rhydon and Heracross I think are the biggest threats to the team.
View attachment 496971
I lost at the 134th Championship.... Out of the Pokemon I faced I would've never expected to lose against an Aggron XDD. I probably misplayed in the battle itself, but I definitely should've brought Swampert... That was the mistake. Then Aggron got two QC attacks and I lost. I'm not blaming bad luck at all, I totally should've brought Swampert. Period.
As always and as proof I try to record parts of my runs when I have the time. I recorded a long session (60 Championships) because I had a lot of time on my hands yesterday.
This is not the end. I will definitely try to go for 200 Championship wins in the near future. I might modify the team, so if anybody has suggestions please let me know.
On a side note, I'd love that my BT Doubles streaks could be examined at some point. It looked like they were overlooked or maybe the admin is just too busy, but the leaderboards have been updated in recent times and I did not receive any feedback from my streaks.
Hello there, I am sorry for taking long on responding. The initial reason why I have not added the first streak was simply because I was planning to review the team considering the fact that a very big number was claimed and the amount of video proof was not enough at least for me to give a fair assessment of the team itself. However, due to my time constraints, I was not able to dedicate your team enough time to me to make a fair assessment on it and decide whether I could add it to the leaderboard on it. I was actually planning to ask more about certain matchups but then time got the best out of time and with how busy I was trying to update the +5/+10 streaks I missed, I kinda left this aside and completely forgot about getting back to you.
I take updating the leaderboard very seriously and I go as far as to test the teams using the teams myself, specially if I want to be sure of something. I like to dedicate the time I can to be sure that the teams being added are teams that will surely help other users. I also don't like accusing others of cheating unless I have enough confidence to assure myself. On your case I just needed the time to make an appropriate assessment considering the numbers involved. At the end of the day, I came to the conclusion that it can definitely held on its own and I decided that I will accept it on the leaderboard.
I'm also going to add your other streaks because the only reason I haven't uploaded them is because your first Doubles streak was the one I was taking my time to analyze. The rest are good to go for me. For the next time, feel free to DM me in case I missed something out or if you need any help and congrats on the streak!
Considering how geared this team looks to be Hyper Offense, I would advise you to use Starmie instead for a couple of reasons:
- Starmie gives you a reliable lead that can pretty much take out a good portion of opposing Pokemon that are vulnerable to its incredible coverage options. It also has a great speed stat which your team will really appreciate because Base 100 Speed is a crowded tier. Starmie getting the jump on Pokemon like Typhlosion, Gengar, Flygon and speed tying opposing Starmie is huge.
- Starmie resists Fighting which is something you will appreciate if you run Salamence and Snorlax. On general terms, it should synergize well with Salamence as it attacks from the special side while your Salamence will most likely be a physical attacker (Don't use a Dragon Dancer set, use a CB set instead)
- A team of Metagross / Salamence / Snorlax will never be able to beat Gyarados 4 considering the fact that none of these mons can learn a move that heavily damages it. Starmie easily defeats it and also prevents you from losing momentum if an opposing Salamence/Gyarados comes at you.
- Starmie beats Rock & Ground types like Donphan, Rhydon (be careful of Quick Claw), Golem and Flygon, which all other members could easily struggle with.
- You'll want to use Modest with max Special Attack and Speed because Timid does not achieve any notable benchmarks and Timid is also too weak (fails to OHKO max HP Armaldo). While you will end up speed tying with other Starmies, Snorlax should get you covered due to its good Special Defense.
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Hello. Long-time lurker, first-time poster in this thread here. I've been attempting Battle Tower Doubles for a while, and I've finally gotten a team I'm happy with. I have an ongoing 105-win streak with this team in Open Level Battle Tower Doubles (on an emulator):
Metagross@Shell Bell
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Spe
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion
-Protect
I've had this one on my team from the beginning. Earthquake is a very strong move here, and the large majority of opponents crumple to me spamming Earthquake with Metagross and Thunderbolt with Zapdos. Explosion is there in case there's something on the field I absolutely need to take out immediately. Meteor Mash's 90 accuracy can be an issue, but its power is difficult to pass up on.
Metagross's strong defenses and typing mean I usually don't have to worry about it being KOed easily. Fire-types are an issue, though.
Zapdos@Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 6 HP
IVs: 10 Atk, 30 Def
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice
-Light Screen
-Protect
I originally had Gengar in this slot because of its Explosion immunity, but I found it was a bit too frail, and its power wasn't quite as high as I would've liked. I gave up on the Explosion immunity, but decided I still wanted something with Earthquake immunity. I also wanted something that could learn Light Screen, as I was having some trouble with special attackers and that is really the only way to mitigate special damage in gen 3.
With those two criteria in mind, I settled on Zapdos. Its Thunderbolt is quite a bit stronger than Gengar's, OHKOing some bulky waters that Gengar can't. I ultimately chose Zapdos over Latios because of that, and because it has fewer weaknesses than Latios does. Its Speed is lower, but I've found its Speed is *usually* good enough.
Hidden Power Ice is there to deal with targets Thunderbolt doesn't do well against.
Arcanine@White Herb
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Rash (+SpA -SpD)
EVs: 236 Spe, 230 SpA, 44 Atk
-Overheat
-Heat Wave
-ExtremeSpeed
-Protect
This one's been on my team for a long time. The Speed EVs allow it to outspeed fully invested base 80's. I know I had some reason for the way I allocated the Attack and Special Attack EVs, but to be honest, it's been a couple years since I chose this spread and I don't remember my reasoning. But I've been using it this way, and it works.
Overheat is just a very strong move in general. Heat Wave isn't as strong here as it is in later gens, but I can use it to pick off a weakened enemy while still damaging its partner. ExtremeSpeed, while a bit weaker than it could be due to the EV spread I'm using, is great for picking off weakened Pokemon that are faster.
I know there are quite a few Pokemon that Arcanine can't really cover with this moveset, but the rest of my team usually covers the slack just fine.
Walrein@Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 HP, 6 Spe
IVs: 2 Atk, 30 SpA
-Ice Beam
-Waterfall
-Hidden Power Grass
-Protect
After going through several different options for Water-types, such as Starmie and Swampert, I ended up coming to this. I wanted something that could deal with Fire-types well, so I could swap Metagross for it if a fast Fire-type was on the field. But I also wanted something that had a reasonably strong Ice Beam to deal with Dragons, and could also tank hits in general pretty well, so I ended up picking Walrein. I also decided I needed to be able to deal with opposing Water-types in case this and Arcanine were my last two Pokemon, so Hidden Power Grass was necessary. Would've liked to carry a support move on it, but I just couldn't fit one on.
I know having Walrein on my team means I have 3 Pokemon that are weak to Rock, but I've found that a Rock weakness doesn't really matter too much in Gen 3 doubles.
---
And I'm also aware I may be playing with fire with all the 90-accuracy moves I'm using, but they were too difficult to pass up for me. So far it's worked out--I've had a few misses here and there, but none of them crucial.
EDIT: Lost my streak at 108 right after I posted this lmao
Lost due to a horrible run of bad luck. Metagross instantly got frozen by Ice Beam, then I switched it out for Arcanine. Both Arcanine and Zapdos then got paralyzed by Thunder Wave, and both were fully paralyzed multiple turns in a row. Meanwhile the enemy Electrode set up multiple Double Teams, and after that I could barely touch it. I tried switching Metagross back in after Arcanine fainted, but it stayed frozen for ~10 turns before finally dying. The rest of my team fell not long after that.
I probably should slot something with Haze on my team somewhere. I need to figure out where, though.
Metagross@Shell Bell
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Spe
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion
-Protect
I've had this one on my team from the beginning. Earthquake is a very strong move here, and the large majority of opponents crumple to me spamming Earthquake with Metagross and Thunderbolt with Zapdos. Explosion is there in case there's something on the field I absolutely need to take out immediately. Meteor Mash's 90 accuracy can be an issue, but its power is difficult to pass up on.
Metagross's strong defenses and typing mean I usually don't have to worry about it being KOed easily. Fire-types are an issue, though.
Zapdos@Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 6 HP
IVs: 10 Atk, 30 Def
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice
-Light Screen
-Protect
I originally had Gengar in this slot because of its Explosion immunity, but I found it was a bit too frail, and its power wasn't quite as high as I would've liked. I gave up on the Explosion immunity, but decided I still wanted something with Earthquake immunity. I also wanted something that could learn Light Screen, as I was having some trouble with special attackers and that is really the only way to mitigate special damage in gen 3.
With those two criteria in mind, I settled on Zapdos. Its Thunderbolt is quite a bit stronger than Gengar's, OHKOing some bulky waters that Gengar can't. I ultimately chose Zapdos over Latios because of that, and because it has fewer weaknesses than Latios does. Its Speed is lower, but I've found its Speed is *usually* good enough.
Hidden Power Ice is there to deal with targets Thunderbolt doesn't do well against.
Arcanine@White Herb
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Rash (+SpA -SpD)
EVs: 236 Spe, 230 SpA, 44 Atk
-Overheat
-Heat Wave
-ExtremeSpeed
-Protect
This one's been on my team for a long time. The Speed EVs allow it to outspeed fully invested base 80's. I know I had some reason for the way I allocated the Attack and Special Attack EVs, but to be honest, it's been a couple years since I chose this spread and I don't remember my reasoning. But I've been using it this way, and it works.
Overheat is just a very strong move in general. Heat Wave isn't as strong here as it is in later gens, but I can use it to pick off a weakened enemy while still damaging its partner. ExtremeSpeed, while a bit weaker than it could be due to the EV spread I'm using, is great for picking off weakened Pokemon that are faster.
I know there are quite a few Pokemon that Arcanine can't really cover with this moveset, but the rest of my team usually covers the slack just fine.
Walrein@Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 HP, 6 Spe
IVs: 2 Atk, 30 SpA
-Ice Beam
-Waterfall
-Hidden Power Grass
-Protect
After going through several different options for Water-types, such as Starmie and Swampert, I ended up coming to this. I wanted something that could deal with Fire-types well, so I could swap Metagross for it if a fast Fire-type was on the field. But I also wanted something that had a reasonably strong Ice Beam to deal with Dragons, and could also tank hits in general pretty well, so I ended up picking Walrein. I also decided I needed to be able to deal with opposing Water-types in case this and Arcanine were my last two Pokemon, so Hidden Power Grass was necessary. Would've liked to carry a support move on it, but I just couldn't fit one on.
I know having Walrein on my team means I have 3 Pokemon that are weak to Rock, but I've found that a Rock weakness doesn't really matter too much in Gen 3 doubles.
---
And I'm also aware I may be playing with fire with all the 90-accuracy moves I'm using, but they were too difficult to pass up for me. So far it's worked out--I've had a few misses here and there, but none of them crucial.
EDIT: Lost my streak at 108 right after I posted this lmao
Lost due to a horrible run of bad luck. Metagross instantly got frozen by Ice Beam, then I switched it out for Arcanine. Both Arcanine and Zapdos then got paralyzed by Thunder Wave, and both were fully paralyzed multiple turns in a row. Meanwhile the enemy Electrode set up multiple Double Teams, and after that I could barely touch it. I tried switching Metagross back in after Arcanine fainted, but it stayed frozen for ~10 turns before finally dying. The rest of my team fell not long after that.
I probably should slot something with Haze on my team somewhere. I need to figure out where, though.
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Hello everyone! I would like to report my latest streaks achieved in Battle Dome/Tower (doubles) and Battle Pike.
Battle Dome Doubles. Clear streak: 50. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
King Kong (Slaking) @ Choice Band
Level 100 Stats: 440/460/235/189/166/299
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam
Oniiros (Latios) @ Twisted Spoon
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Waterfall
Saphira (Salamence) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 338/405/195/230/195/292
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Flamethrower
Description:
The idea is to win the battle on the first turn. Slaking always fights, and his teammate is chosen depending on the opponent's pokemon. Both Salamence and Latios have enough cover moves to deal with all sorts of threats, super effectively. If Slaking manages to get the kill quickly, the battle is nearly won. If the first turn ends with both enemies still alive, the battle could get too complicated.
To avoid the Fake Out spammers such as Medicham and Hariyama, that are also capable of killing my Kong, I sometimes brought out Latios and Salamence together. Latios’ Waterfall OHKOs Haxdon and hits Tyranitar/Armaldo/Steelix/Shuckle harder than the regular Psychic+BoltBeam set. Salamence’s Flamethrower deals with Skarmory/Steelix/Scizor/Forretress, BB is there for Tar, Lax, and the regis, HP Rock for Armaldo/Protect Moltres/Articuno. Her speed stat (292) is enough to out speed the Battle Dome’s 291-speed niche (the opponents’ IVs are always 3).
Loss:
A combination of opposing Granbull’s Intimidate and Snorlax’s Curse (with its Quick Claw activated) made them resist the first turn avalanche. During the Truant turn, Snorlax managed to resist a second Brick Break and Granbull finished my Slaking, making impossible the comeback.
Proof:
Battle Tower Doubles. Win streak: 83. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Goroka (Gyarados) @ Chesto Berry
Level 100 Stats: 360/383/194/135/231/227
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying 70
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Drimoto (Latias) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 364/161/306/256/296/257
Bold Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Helping Hand
- Recover
Big Bone (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Level 100 Stats: 283/284/255/115/195/167
Ability: Lightning Rod
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Protect
- Perish Song
Oniiros (Latios) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Description:
Gyarados spams Dragon Dance as much as he can and heals from status problems with Rest. Latias’ screens make Gyarados even harder to kill, Helping Hand boosts Gyarados’ EQ or HP in a pinch, and Recover makes her nearly immortal except for Toxic. Marowak is there for 3 reasons: to absorb electric attacks thrown at Goroka, to hit like a truck with Earthquake, and to pressure Double Team and Rest abusers with Perish Song. Latios is a formidable special attacker and has Levitate, which pairs very well with Gyarados and Marowak.
Loss:
The combination of Tyranitar (who could have Thunderbolt) and Aerodactyl was tough to face with Gyarados so I sent out Marowak to kill Tar first. Then a Meganium came to ruin my day: its Ancient Power critical-hit my Gyarados when he was “beginning to believe”, and when Latios came to rescue the team the opponent trainer sent out Snorlax to end my hopes and dreams with Double Edge.
Proof:
Battle Pike. Rooms Cleared: 341. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Oniiros (Latios) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Axel (Swampert) @ Choice Band
Level 100 Stats: 383/350/215/185/215/177
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Brick Break
- Ice Beam
Hueva (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 714/26/130/185/306/147
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
Description and Loss:
Standard Pike team. Latios and Swampert make a strong team both in single and double battles, and Blissey is there to replenish their HP bars and cure status problems, as well as to nullify every special attacker faced. I was very (and I mean VERY) lucky in some rounds, but at the end I made a fatal mistake: I attack a random wild Electrode with Psychic fearing the impossibility of fleeing from it (because that thing is fast and I didn't know exactly what my chances of running away were) but the electric ball managed to survive, exploding immediately after. The journey from there was very difficult without my lead Latios and finally an opposing Salamence ended my streak.
Proof:
Thank you all for reading. I wish you the best of luck with your streaks! Farewell.
Battle Dome Doubles. Clear streak: 50. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
King Kong (Slaking) @ Choice Band
Level 100 Stats: 440/460/235/189/166/299
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam
Oniiros (Latios) @ Twisted Spoon
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Waterfall
Saphira (Salamence) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 338/405/195/230/195/292
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Flamethrower
Description:
The idea is to win the battle on the first turn. Slaking always fights, and his teammate is chosen depending on the opponent's pokemon. Both Salamence and Latios have enough cover moves to deal with all sorts of threats, super effectively. If Slaking manages to get the kill quickly, the battle is nearly won. If the first turn ends with both enemies still alive, the battle could get too complicated.
To avoid the Fake Out spammers such as Medicham and Hariyama, that are also capable of killing my Kong, I sometimes brought out Latios and Salamence together. Latios’ Waterfall OHKOs Haxdon and hits Tyranitar/Armaldo/Steelix/Shuckle harder than the regular Psychic+BoltBeam set. Salamence’s Flamethrower deals with Skarmory/Steelix/Scizor/Forretress, BB is there for Tar, Lax, and the regis, HP Rock for Armaldo/Protect Moltres/Articuno. Her speed stat (292) is enough to out speed the Battle Dome’s 291-speed niche (the opponents’ IVs are always 3).
Loss:
A combination of opposing Granbull’s Intimidate and Snorlax’s Curse (with its Quick Claw activated) made them resist the first turn avalanche. During the Truant turn, Snorlax managed to resist a second Brick Break and Granbull finished my Slaking, making impossible the comeback.
Proof:
Battle Tower Doubles. Win streak: 83. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Goroka (Gyarados) @ Chesto Berry
Level 100 Stats: 360/383/194/135/231/227
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying 70
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Drimoto (Latias) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 364/161/306/256/296/257
Bold Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Helping Hand
- Recover
Big Bone (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Level 100 Stats: 283/284/255/115/195/167
Ability: Lightning Rod
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Protect
- Perish Song
Oniiros (Latios) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Description:
Gyarados spams Dragon Dance as much as he can and heals from status problems with Rest. Latias’ screens make Gyarados even harder to kill, Helping Hand boosts Gyarados’ EQ or HP in a pinch, and Recover makes her nearly immortal except for Toxic. Marowak is there for 3 reasons: to absorb electric attacks thrown at Goroka, to hit like a truck with Earthquake, and to pressure Double Team and Rest abusers with Perish Song. Latios is a formidable special attacker and has Levitate, which pairs very well with Gyarados and Marowak.
Loss:
The combination of Tyranitar (who could have Thunderbolt) and Aerodactyl was tough to face with Gyarados so I sent out Marowak to kill Tar first. Then a Meganium came to ruin my day: its Ancient Power critical-hit my Gyarados when he was “beginning to believe”, and when Latios came to rescue the team the opponent trainer sent out Snorlax to end my hopes and dreams with Double Edge.
Proof:
Battle Pike. Rooms Cleared: 341. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Oniiros (Latios) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Axel (Swampert) @ Choice Band
Level 100 Stats: 383/350/215/185/215/177
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Brick Break
- Ice Beam
Hueva (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 714/26/130/185/306/147
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
Description and Loss:
Standard Pike team. Latios and Swampert make a strong team both in single and double battles, and Blissey is there to replenish their HP bars and cure status problems, as well as to nullify every special attacker faced. I was very (and I mean VERY) lucky in some rounds, but at the end I made a fatal mistake: I attack a random wild Electrode with Psychic fearing the impossibility of fleeing from it (because that thing is fast and I didn't know exactly what my chances of running away were) but the electric ball managed to survive, exploding immediately after. The journey from there was very difficult without my lead Latios and finally an opposing Salamence ended my streak.
Proof:
Thank you all for reading. I wish you the best of luck with your streaks! Farewell.
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Hello! Reporting a 145 win streak at the Battle Tower on console (Level 50) with the following team:
Latias and Registeel are both the standard 1-2 setup combo, inspired by Kommo-o's Latias-Registeel-Gyarados team. Metal Claw on Registeel because it isn't IV'd for HP Steel but this Registeel is the same one I've used for Gen IV and Gen V battle challenges, and he still has great IVs. It needs the near max Atk investment because Metal Claw is pathetically weak, and a little bit of speed investment to outspeed opposing base 50s, namely Regirock.
I used Salamence over Gyarados for a few reasons. First, higher base Atk and Speed allows for more efficient EV investment. For example, this Salamence hits 134 speed with just 108 EVs, which after one DD will outspeed everything in frontier. An Adamant Gyarados cannot hit 134 Speed.
Saving those Speed EVs allows for more investment in HP. 189 HP allows for 4 substitutes +1 HP remaining. Second, I prefer Aerial Ace over HP Flying. There are so many Pokemon in the frontier that are carrying BP/LI, or spam double team, it's nice to not have to worry about missing the move after all that work to set up or running out of PP. At +6, Aerial Ace will 2HKO any Skarmory, which was exactly the cutoff for Kommo-o's Gyarados's HP Flying and Atk investment. Lastly, I have much more familiarity with Registeel and Salamence as a defensive core, since I've used it for Gens 3-5. I personally think it's a better defensive core that Registeel-Gyarados since Ice weakness/resist is mirrored in Sala-Regi, but Electric weakness is not for Gyara-Regi.
Everything was going smoothly until I faced Gengar 4.
Turn 1: Latias used Thunder Wave. Gengar Lum Berry activates. Gengar used Ice Punch (~45%). Latias is frozen solid.
Turn 2: Latias is frozen. Gengar used Ice Punch (~47%).
Turn 3: Latias is frozen. Gengar used Ice Punch, Latias faints.
Gengar KO Registeel with 3 Fire Punches, 2 Metal Claws do nearly 50%, but Gengar outspeeds Salamence and OHKO with Ice Punch. I suppose I could've toggled between Salamence and Registeel to alternate between Fire Punches and Ice Punch but Fire Punch does kill Salamence within ~7-8 hits, which wouldn't have stalled it out anyways.
For the most part I like the team, I think I would definitely try for longer streak with no adjustments. Still not totally convinced by Flash, but I can't really think of a better alternative.
Latias @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
Lvl 50 Stats: 186/77/114/129/150/173
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Flash
- Recover
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
Level 50 Stats: 187/125/171/79/187/71
- Metal Claw
- Substitute
- Curse
- Amnesia
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
Level 50 Stats: 189/204/99/112/100/134
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
Lvl 50 Stats: 186/77/114/129/150/173
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Flash
- Recover
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
Level 50 Stats: 187/125/171/79/187/71
- Metal Claw
- Substitute
- Curse
- Amnesia
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
Level 50 Stats: 189/204/99/112/100/134
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
Latias and Registeel are both the standard 1-2 setup combo, inspired by Kommo-o's Latias-Registeel-Gyarados team. Metal Claw on Registeel because it isn't IV'd for HP Steel but this Registeel is the same one I've used for Gen IV and Gen V battle challenges, and he still has great IVs. It needs the near max Atk investment because Metal Claw is pathetically weak, and a little bit of speed investment to outspeed opposing base 50s, namely Regirock.
I used Salamence over Gyarados for a few reasons. First, higher base Atk and Speed allows for more efficient EV investment. For example, this Salamence hits 134 speed with just 108 EVs, which after one DD will outspeed everything in frontier. An Adamant Gyarados cannot hit 134 Speed.
Saving those Speed EVs allows for more investment in HP. 189 HP allows for 4 substitutes +1 HP remaining. Second, I prefer Aerial Ace over HP Flying. There are so many Pokemon in the frontier that are carrying BP/LI, or spam double team, it's nice to not have to worry about missing the move after all that work to set up or running out of PP. At +6, Aerial Ace will 2HKO any Skarmory, which was exactly the cutoff for Kommo-o's Gyarados's HP Flying and Atk investment. Lastly, I have much more familiarity with Registeel and Salamence as a defensive core, since I've used it for Gens 3-5. I personally think it's a better defensive core that Registeel-Gyarados since Ice weakness/resist is mirrored in Sala-Regi, but Electric weakness is not for Gyara-Regi.
Everything was going smoothly until I faced Gengar 4.
Turn 1: Latias used Thunder Wave. Gengar Lum Berry activates. Gengar used Ice Punch (~45%). Latias is frozen solid.
Turn 2: Latias is frozen. Gengar used Ice Punch (~47%).
Turn 3: Latias is frozen. Gengar used Ice Punch, Latias faints.
Gengar KO Registeel with 3 Fire Punches, 2 Metal Claws do nearly 50%, but Gengar outspeeds Salamence and OHKO with Ice Punch. I suppose I could've toggled between Salamence and Registeel to alternate between Fire Punches and Ice Punch but Fire Punch does kill Salamence within ~7-8 hits, which wouldn't have stalled it out anyways.
For the most part I like the team, I think I would definitely try for longer streak with no adjustments. Still not totally convinced by Flash, but I can't really think of a better alternative.
Attachments
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Hello, I have been looking for a place to ask questions about a battle tower team in RS, so hopefully this is the right place. I am trying to get the battle tower ribbons on my Regice, but I need help. I have seen posts that say Regice is good, but I've stuggled to find sets for it. My regice is relaxed nature (+Def,-Spe). What would be a good team to go through the tower with? The only catch is that a dry battery Sapphire is the only gen 3 game I have, and I plan to get either Colosseum or XD soon, so that will limit the movesets quite a bit.
Regice makes for a passable bulky sweeper but it's also a one of the best Special walls since it can shrug off a lot of neutral or resisted hits, and with Amnesia its Special Defence becomes almost impregnable. It has a lot of physical weaknesses but with Defence investment can stand up to a decent amount; it also gets access to Counter (though you need FRLG or Emerald for that) so can score some KOs against physical attackers. Relaxed is quite a good nature for it.
Ice is a terrible defensive type, but on the other hand the RS Battle Tower is significantly easier than the Emerald Battle Tower so you'll find yourself struggling much less against some of the Pokemon that would ordinarily slaughter Regice like Medicham or Machamp.
If you're planning to use it as an out-and-out attacker I'd recommend something like
Regice @ Lum Berry/Shell Bell/Leftovers
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Focus Punch/Superpower/Earthquake
Substitute/Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Dark/Hidden Power Psychic
252 Special Attack/180 Attack/60 HP/4 Defence/12 Special Defence
Ice Beam is an obvious given and Thunderbolt has fantastic coverage in conjunction with it. For your other two moves there's a few options. BoltBeamSubPunch can work fairly well but if your Regice has a decent Hidden Power type that's worth using. Dark hits a few things Ice and Electric don't (most notably Shedinja which has more likelihood of showing up in the RS Tower); Fire has great synergy with BoltBeam and is is super-effective against Steel-types, and Psychic hits the Fighting-types (though is unlikely to OHKO any of them). If you can't run Substitute (it's another tutor move that requires FRLG, Emerald, or XD) Superpower is a really good option instead. Regice also gets Earthquake which hits both Fire and Steel Pokemon hard, but it's unlikely to KO any of them.
The item choice largely depends on how much competition there is for them from your other team members. Lum Berry is always a useful option; Shell Bell is a decent alternative to Leftovers if you expect to be doing lots of damage. If you're running Superpower I'd even consider White Herb to counteract the stat drops and give you an extra use of the move at full power.
If you're running it as a wall (which IMO it's likely better served as) I'd go more like this:
Regice @ Chesto Berry/Leftovers
Ice Beam
Amnesia
Toxic
Rest
252 HP/Defence, 4 SpDef
You can play around with this but for the RS Tower it'll make a pretty solid Special wall. If you can't bring something down with Ice Beam, poison it and wait out the damage while you boost up. You could run Curse over Amnesia and invest your EVs in Special Defence instead but it's up to you.
Psypoke's stat calculator is a useful tool for working out breakpoints and what you want your overall stat spread to look like. In general even when not running Substitute you always want your HP to be an odd number not divisible by 4 as if you're ever having it whittled down by weather or a residual damage move like Wrap those extra couple of points can keep you alive a turn longer. No idea what IVs your Regice has but I calculated them as if they were all 0 to give you a bit of leeway.
As for teammates, Blaziken has some decent synergy and covers a lot of the stuff Regice can't - it's the best Fire-type and can run mixed sets very well. As Fighting-types go Medicham, Breloom, and Heracross are also good options. Medicham has a lot of immediate power but can be quite high risk, whereas Heracross and Breloom are a little more consistent but both are held back by a gaping double weakness to Flying moves. Machamp and Hariyama are also there: not as good as the others, but they're workable.
Latios or Latias would make a decent third as they can take out the Fighting-types that threaten Regice but as you mentioned you've only got a dead battery Sapphire I doubt either is an option - the roaming Latias on Sapphire, of course, will be affected by the 0 IV glitch. So instead I'd recommend using either Gardevoir or Alakazam. The former is probably the better option as it has a little more bulk thus can pull off Calm Mind with a better chance of success - Alakazam is just too frail to be able to consistently boost. It also struggles to put together a decent moveset without the elemental punches (which again requires Emerald or FRLG) whereas Gardevoir gets Thunderbolt and Magical Leaf (though annoyingly it only learns Magical Leaf in FRLG... there's a theme developing here. Psychic and Thunderbolt are just about good enough though) and also has access to Destiny Bond.
Salamence, Kingdra, Milotic, Swellow, Slaking, Gyarados and Starmie are all also very good options that complement Regice well. If you're using it as a Special wall, combine it with two strong attackers from either end of the spectrum. If you're using Regice as an attacker, then choose a powerful physical attacker like Salamence or Medicham to go with it and run a bulky water like Milotic as your third.
I'm actually really tempted to give the RS Tower a go now...
Thanks for the detailed response! My Regice's IVs are 19/13/10/15/11/23 with a hidden power of dragon (which is redundant with ice unfortunately). I have done a little more research today, and I'm thinking I'll use Regice as a wall, with the evs and moves you listed, although if I decide not to run leftovers, would thunderbolt be better over amnesia?
For the special attacker I was looking at either Gardevoir, with basically the moves you said, or Raikou (I decided to get colosseum since XD is much more expensive). Raikou I imagine would look something like this:
Raikou @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Crunch
- Calm Mind
For the physical attacker, I don't have easy access to Blaziken because I chose mudkip as my starter. Type-synergy wise Breloom would make sense, as he resists the ground, rock and steel attacks Regice and Raikou/Gardevoir wouldn't want to take. What you suggest for a Breloom moveset/ev spread? I would think something with maybe Bulk Up/Fighting move/Sludge Bomb or a physical Hidden Power/Spore or Leech Seed?
Raikou would be good, it's a fantastic Calm Mind user. Hard to get a decent one from Colosseum though, getting the right HP type will be hell.
On balance I'm not sure Breloom is a good choice: it has pretty poor coverage compared to Heracross and Medicham (Sludge Bomb is the most powerful move it gets, which doesn't hit a lot of things) but if you're set on using it seems a waste not to take advantage of Spore as that's its major selling point.
Spore, Focus Punch, and Leech Seed cover a vast amount of foes. Focus Punch alone will wreck more or less everything as it's so powerful; even stuff like Skarmory and Gardevoir will be taking massive damage from it (I haven't got calculations to hand). But as a fourth move, Headbutt, Sludge Bomb, or Hidden Power Ghost are all good options, or you can go with Bulk Up. You're walled by Ghosts but you can put them to sleep, use Leech Seed and slowly whittle them down.
I would just stress though that I think it's vastly outclassed by Heracross which has comparable Attack but far better speed, superior coverage, and laughs at status moves thanks to Guts. The RS Tower is much slower (in general) than other formats so with a Jolly nature and full Speed investment Heracross will outrun a lot of stuff and after one Bulk Up you'll be very capable of sweeping.
Heracross @ Cheri Berry/Liechi Berry/Salac Berry/Choice Band
Megahorn
Brick Break
Earthquake/Facade/HP Rock
Bulk Up/HP Ghost
252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP (Jolly)
This is a much more straightforward sweeper than Breloom and can KO a lot of stuff very easily. Bulk Up is an option but you could even go with Choice Band and four attacking moves. Facade is a fun option but it depends on actually getting statused which in general you can hope to avoid if you're aiming for straight KOs; Earthquake gets useful coverage but is a little redundant with Brick Break, whereas HP Rock is useful to bash the Flying-types that will slaughter you.
There's a wide swathe of items you could use - Cheri Berry is suggested purely because while Heracross doesn't mind being burned or poisoned, paralysis has too much of a drawback for the Guts boost to be worth it. Alternatively, a pinch berry can be useful to give a final burst of power (but the Liechi Berry specifically is harder to get in Gen III as it's the only one not buyable in Orre).
I think Raikou, Heracross and Regice will be the team then. I might switch out HP ice for rest on Raikou and give him a chesto berry, so I only need to worry about nature. Thank you for your help, very much appreciated.
Hey everyone. Had some spare amount of time to make a new Gold Symbol run, so I went ahead and did that, despite saying that I probably would only limit myself to the previous challenge. I'll likely post if I have any new ideas I wanted to try out.
I mainly wanted to show off new streaks for the Palace, Pyramid, and Arena. This took a fairly casual approach, using the same restrictions from my previous runs. The purpose of this particular run was to give other team members that I had originally planned to use but opted not to for the sole reason of getting the symbols as quickly as possible the first time around.
To preface, for time’s sake, I tackled the Factory, Dome, Tower, and Pike (in that order) to save time and to unlock Gym leader battles needed for training should anything get botched. As I already have runs on the leaderboard, I will not go too deep into detail with the remaining facilities.
To skip to proof of streaks, click on the so-named tab.
Like I said, I won't go too much into detail here.
The Factory went by surprisingly quick. I did not lose a single battle, and I recall the 5th and 6th rounds both having Snorlax as I did in my previous run.
The Dome and Tower were both using the Battle Tower team I had in my previous run to 105 wins.
Beating Tucker involved choosing Slaking and Metagross. Slaking used Double Edge on Swampert, switch to Metagross against the mirror. It used Protect a few times but in the end, I won out with an Earthquake 2HKO.
The Anabel battle was the exact same as the previous times. Slaking EQ on Raikou, swap to Metagross and 2HKO Latios with Shadow Ball, then Explosion on Snorlax.
I explained the mechanics in a previous post, but I will just list the team used in Dome and Tower in this run below.
Slaking
The Factory went by surprisingly quick. I did not lose a single battle, and I recall the 5th and 6th rounds both having Snorlax as I did in my previous run.
The Dome and Tower were both using the Battle Tower team I had in my previous run to 105 wins.
Beating Tucker involved choosing Slaking and Metagross. Slaking used Double Edge on Swampert, switch to Metagross against the mirror. It used Protect a few times but in the end, I won out with an Earthquake 2HKO.
The Anabel battle was the exact same as the previous times. Slaking EQ on Raikou, swap to Metagross and 2HKO Latios with Shadow Ball, then Explosion on Snorlax.
I explained the mechanics in a previous post, but I will just list the team used in Dome and Tower in this run below.
Slaking
- Method Acquired: Caught (Petalburg Forest). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 SpDef
- Items Used
- Choice Band
- Moves
- Double Edge
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace
- Method Acquired: Caught in current emulator file.
- Nature: Modest
- EV Spread: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Lum Berry
- Moves
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Method Acquired: From Steven’s house (post-game, Mossdeep City). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Leftovers
- Moves
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
Metagross
- Method Acquired: From Steven’s house (post-game, Mossdeep City). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Choice Band
- Moves
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
- Method Acquired: Caught in current emulator file.
- Nature: Modest
- EV Spread: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used: Lum Berry
- Moves
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Method Acquired: Caught Chansey in FireRed, EV trained in original Emerald emulator file.
- Nature: Bold
- EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpAtk
- Items Used
- Leftovers
- Moves
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell
- Flamethrower
Slaking (Rounds 1, 3-7, 9-10)
While the previous run’s Pyramid journey went without a single defeat, this one took quite a bit of time for me to do. One reason this took quite some time was that the notorious 8th round ended most of my runs, plus Slaking’s ability being more costly in the Pyramid without a second physical attacker. Thus, I made the key adjustment to use Metagross during the 2nd and 8th rounds to account for the wild Pokemon in the rounds, relying on its Steel typing to counteract Poison and Explosion, respectively. In addition, finding a Choice Band was pretty crucial to this entire strategy working, as you can only find it in the 2nd round, then only every other 4th round after each instance. Not finding it reduces Slaking’s effectiveness by a significant margin and makes your run infinitely harder. Again, I opted not to swap Double-Edge for Hyper Beam at this time since at the time, I’d reserved the Double Edge Move Tutor for a Pokemon I will use in a future run.
Again, beating Brandon is pretty easy if you have a fair stock of healing items. With Slaking in the lead position, I took down Articuno with a single Double Edge, and decide to pivot into a Blissey at around 3/4 health once the next Pokemon was sent out. The rest of the battle proceeded to be me pretty much playing with my food, as after the initial Toxic against the target landed, I cycled between Flamethrower and Softboiled against both Zapdos and Moltres.
- Method Acquired: Caught (Petalburg Forest). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 SpDef
- Items Used
- Choice Band
- Moves
- Double Edge
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace
- Method Acquired: From Steven’s house (post-game, Mossdeep City). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Choice Band
- Moves
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
- Method Acquired: Caught in current emulator file.
- Nature: Modest
- EV Spread: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used: Brightpowder
- Moves
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Method Acquired: Caught Chansey in FireRed, EV trained in original Emerald emulator file.
- Nature: Bold
- EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpAtk
- Items Used
- Leftovers
- Moves
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Heal Bell
- Flamethrower
While the previous run’s Pyramid journey went without a single defeat, this one took quite a bit of time for me to do. One reason this took quite some time was that the notorious 8th round ended most of my runs, plus Slaking’s ability being more costly in the Pyramid without a second physical attacker. Thus, I made the key adjustment to use Metagross during the 2nd and 8th rounds to account for the wild Pokemon in the rounds, relying on its Steel typing to counteract Poison and Explosion, respectively. In addition, finding a Choice Band was pretty crucial to this entire strategy working, as you can only find it in the 2nd round, then only every other 4th round after each instance. Not finding it reduces Slaking’s effectiveness by a significant margin and makes your run infinitely harder. Again, I opted not to swap Double-Edge for Hyper Beam at this time since at the time, I’d reserved the Double Edge Move Tutor for a Pokemon I will use in a future run.
Again, beating Brandon is pretty easy if you have a fair stock of healing items. With Slaking in the lead position, I took down Articuno with a single Double Edge, and decide to pivot into a Blissey at around 3/4 health once the next Pokemon was sent out. The rest of the battle proceeded to be me pretty much playing with my food, as after the initial Toxic against the target landed, I cycled between Flamethrower and Softboiled against both Zapdos and Moltres.
Regirock
I only decided to do this challenge since I had thought the Regis theoretically could handle both of Spenser’s teams, taking more of a casual approach to this since I was very hesitant at the time to use any non-recyclable TMs or Move Tutor moves. They were one of my originally planned Pokemon to use for the Palace since none of my “main” Pokemon for the Frontier run wouldn’t have ideal natures, with EV training also done in my other emulator account. With high initial defenses, I decided to opt for maximum investment in the respective Regis’ highest attacking stat, as well as in HP. Speed was not a concern for me, so I decided to lock into natures that would increase their highest attacking stat while having reasonable attacking probability in certain situations.
Regirock would deal with Arcanine, and perhaps Slaking as well depending on how many Curse setups it performed, and potentially land a hit off Suicune before fainting. The attacks chosen were the best I could think of with what was available in-game, with Body Slam causing paralysis and Superpower doing massive damage to Normals, as well as Steels and Rocks without using Earthquake. Regice’s high SpDef with some HP investment was my answer to Suicune, among almost all Special Waters I could run into. Not wanting to burn my Rest TM, I gave it Thunder Wave as a support move and Seismic Toss for additional reasons I will explain later. I couldn’t really find a decent Defense move I could use outside of Rest for Regice other than Protect. Therefore, I decided to risk foregoing recovery and instead to go the Lum Berry route. Gengar was my Levitate pivot for Ground types and a solid answer to the Fighting types that had type effectiveness over any Regi.
The only real threats that I saw in this challenge were Absol and Lanturn. This is the same Choice Banded Absol that ended one of my previous runs with Iron Tail. Volt Absorb Lanturn could theoretically wipe my whole team and ended one run on this account. Not wanting to use my Earthquake TM yet, I gave the high SpDef Regice Seismic Toss as an answer to this, hopefully whittling down Lanturn down enough for Gengar to take it down at a minimum. I want to highlight that Regirock’s presence as a lead was rather solid, as I very rarely found myself needing to make an opening switch for anything outside of Pokemon with type advantage, and even could go toe to toe with said Pokemon with Curse setup. Regirock was also able to sweep several battles in the later rounds from its lead position.
When I battled Spenser, it went exactly as planned and I never had to use Gengar at all. Regirock had sufficient Curse setups to deal with both Arcanine and Slaking, and even damage Suicune before fainting. The choice to have Superpower really paid off since Slaking was a 2HKO maximum after one initial Curse setup. Regice having Seismic Toss was a great help against Suicune in case it ever got to setup in addition to already having the already sufficient Thunderbolt coverage that ultimately ended the battle.
- Method Acquired: Caught (Desert Ruins). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Brave
- EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 SpDef
- Items Used
- Leftovers
- Moves
- Rock Slide
- Body Slam
- Superpower
- Curse
- Method Acquired: Caught (Island Cave). From original emulator file.
- Nature: Quiet
- EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 6 Def
- Items Used
- Lum Berry
- Moves
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Method Acquired: Caught as Haunter in FireRed, EV trained in original Emerald emulator file.
- Nature: Sassy
- EV Spread: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Brightpowder
- Moves
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
I only decided to do this challenge since I had thought the Regis theoretically could handle both of Spenser’s teams, taking more of a casual approach to this since I was very hesitant at the time to use any non-recyclable TMs or Move Tutor moves. They were one of my originally planned Pokemon to use for the Palace since none of my “main” Pokemon for the Frontier run wouldn’t have ideal natures, with EV training also done in my other emulator account. With high initial defenses, I decided to opt for maximum investment in the respective Regis’ highest attacking stat, as well as in HP. Speed was not a concern for me, so I decided to lock into natures that would increase their highest attacking stat while having reasonable attacking probability in certain situations.
Regirock would deal with Arcanine, and perhaps Slaking as well depending on how many Curse setups it performed, and potentially land a hit off Suicune before fainting. The attacks chosen were the best I could think of with what was available in-game, with Body Slam causing paralysis and Superpower doing massive damage to Normals, as well as Steels and Rocks without using Earthquake. Regice’s high SpDef with some HP investment was my answer to Suicune, among almost all Special Waters I could run into. Not wanting to burn my Rest TM, I gave it Thunder Wave as a support move and Seismic Toss for additional reasons I will explain later. I couldn’t really find a decent Defense move I could use outside of Rest for Regice other than Protect. Therefore, I decided to risk foregoing recovery and instead to go the Lum Berry route. Gengar was my Levitate pivot for Ground types and a solid answer to the Fighting types that had type effectiveness over any Regi.
The only real threats that I saw in this challenge were Absol and Lanturn. This is the same Choice Banded Absol that ended one of my previous runs with Iron Tail. Volt Absorb Lanturn could theoretically wipe my whole team and ended one run on this account. Not wanting to use my Earthquake TM yet, I gave the high SpDef Regice Seismic Toss as an answer to this, hopefully whittling down Lanturn down enough for Gengar to take it down at a minimum. I want to highlight that Regirock’s presence as a lead was rather solid, as I very rarely found myself needing to make an opening switch for anything outside of Pokemon with type advantage, and even could go toe to toe with said Pokemon with Curse setup. Regirock was also able to sweep several battles in the later rounds from its lead position.
When I battled Spenser, it went exactly as planned and I never had to use Gengar at all. Regirock had sufficient Curse setups to deal with both Arcanine and Slaking, and even damage Suicune before fainting. The choice to have Superpower really paid off since Slaking was a 2HKO maximum after one initial Curse setup. Regice having Seismic Toss was a great help against Suicune in case it ever got to setup in addition to already having the already sufficient Thunderbolt coverage that ultimately ended the battle.
Regice
After experimenting with a fair number of new additions to my Pokemon pool, in the end this was the team that I really wanted to have fun with without pulling in any other members of my team from the other runs. In addition, two other prerequisites that I wanted to meet with inspiration from other FAQs I have read in various guides was a lead Regi and the use of DD Salamence, which I never used in any of my other runs. This was the end result of that criteria, and hence the reason I tackled the Arena last. Overall, I was very satisfied with this team and I only failed one run prior to the winning run.
I was originally going to lead off with Registeel or Regirock, but it was either that or Salamence not having Earthquake. Therefore, my only remaining option was Regice, freshly caught for this challenge with a Modest nature. I decided not to run a Rest set, due to the fact that Regice would be a sitting duck against physical opponents. The result was the addition of Counter for an instant method to eliminate the target rather than potentially leave it as a threat to Salamence. The final move was Thunder Wave, as an alternate way to earn points in the Skill category, as well as to turn the Pokemon that Regice could not handle into weakened setup fodder for Salamence, mainly lead Fire and Fighting types. For DD Salamence, I couldn’t decide between Return and Rock Slide for the third attacking move. I opted for Return, but Rock Slide or even Double Edge were viable choices. The final position went to Starmie, who covered all of Salamence’s weaknesses and had at least neutral resistances to said Rock, Ice, and Dragon types. Starmie did its job ably well, stepping into and overcoming the few unfavorable 1v3 situations I had during the winning run.
Fast Rock and Steel leads were one big weakness of this team, notably Aerodactyl 2 (Choice Band 2). It could potentially OHKO Regice while doing massive damage to Salamence, as well as being resistant to all of the latter’s moves. Another threat to this team was any Pokemon faster than Regice that could put it to sleep, and there’s quite a select list of Pokemon that can do that. This wasn’t as big of a weakness as the formerly mentioned Rock / Steel leads, but made the rest of the battle more disadvantageous. One final weakness I wanted to mention was Blissey 2. This was the only Pokemon that caused my only failed run in the Arena, being a special wall that hard countered both Regice and Starmie, and pretty much preventing Salamence from properly setting up through a Substitute -> Sing -> Seismic Toss sequence.
The Greta battle ended up being pretty similar to the previous run’s winning battle, with only the lead Pokemon needed for the sweep. Umbreon led with Double Edge and despite confusing Regice in Turn 2, Regice used Ice Beam through confusion to get the proper judgment to win. Gengar botched Hypnosis and fainted to a critical hit Ice Beam, leaving Breloom to similarly fall to a final Ice Beam.
This ended up being the final symbol I acquired on the second emulator file.
- Method Acquired: Caught (Island Cave). From current emulator file.
- Nature: Modest
- EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 6 Def
- Items Used
- Leftovers
- Moves
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Counter
- Method Acquired: Caught as Bagon and EV trained in original Emerald emulator file.
- Nature: Adamant
- EV Spread: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Lum Berry
- Moves
- Return
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Dance
- Method Acquired: Caught as Staryu in current emulator file.
- Nature: Modest
- EV Spread: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Items Used
- Brightpowder
- Moves
- Surf
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
After experimenting with a fair number of new additions to my Pokemon pool, in the end this was the team that I really wanted to have fun with without pulling in any other members of my team from the other runs. In addition, two other prerequisites that I wanted to meet with inspiration from other FAQs I have read in various guides was a lead Regi and the use of DD Salamence, which I never used in any of my other runs. This was the end result of that criteria, and hence the reason I tackled the Arena last. Overall, I was very satisfied with this team and I only failed one run prior to the winning run.
I was originally going to lead off with Registeel or Regirock, but it was either that or Salamence not having Earthquake. Therefore, my only remaining option was Regice, freshly caught for this challenge with a Modest nature. I decided not to run a Rest set, due to the fact that Regice would be a sitting duck against physical opponents. The result was the addition of Counter for an instant method to eliminate the target rather than potentially leave it as a threat to Salamence. The final move was Thunder Wave, as an alternate way to earn points in the Skill category, as well as to turn the Pokemon that Regice could not handle into weakened setup fodder for Salamence, mainly lead Fire and Fighting types. For DD Salamence, I couldn’t decide between Return and Rock Slide for the third attacking move. I opted for Return, but Rock Slide or even Double Edge were viable choices. The final position went to Starmie, who covered all of Salamence’s weaknesses and had at least neutral resistances to said Rock, Ice, and Dragon types. Starmie did its job ably well, stepping into and overcoming the few unfavorable 1v3 situations I had during the winning run.
Fast Rock and Steel leads were one big weakness of this team, notably Aerodactyl 2 (Choice Band 2). It could potentially OHKO Regice while doing massive damage to Salamence, as well as being resistant to all of the latter’s moves. Another threat to this team was any Pokemon faster than Regice that could put it to sleep, and there’s quite a select list of Pokemon that can do that. This wasn’t as big of a weakness as the formerly mentioned Rock / Steel leads, but made the rest of the battle more disadvantageous. One final weakness I wanted to mention was Blissey 2. This was the only Pokemon that caused my only failed run in the Arena, being a special wall that hard countered both Regice and Starmie, and pretty much preventing Salamence from properly setting up through a Substitute -> Sing -> Seismic Toss sequence.
The Greta battle ended up being pretty similar to the previous run’s winning battle, with only the lead Pokemon needed for the sweep. Umbreon led with Double Edge and despite confusing Regice in Turn 2, Regice used Ice Beam through confusion to get the proper judgment to win. Gengar botched Hypnosis and fainted to a critical hit Ice Beam, leaving Breloom to similarly fall to a final Ice Beam.
This ended up being the final symbol I acquired on the second emulator file.
See images below for proof of streaks.
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Hi everyone! I've lurked this thread for a couple years now and decided to finally post some streaks myself.
Although i have all 7 Gold Symbols i will only be sharing 5 streaks now, all of them on the Singles Level 50 format and done on a retail copy of Emerald (none of them ongoing as i eventually lost on all 5). The other 2 are the Factory which i was only able to beat using RNG manipulation (and therefore is not valid under the rules of this thread) and the Pyramid (which i fell deserves its own post and will be written as a replay to this later on).
The team is based on the one used by Werester and Exarion in their All Gold Symbols speedruns (so thanks to them for providing the blueprints for the run). These are Latios, Metagross and Swampert. Whith the only difference that the latter 2 didn't even have the right natures or ivs, only Latios is Modest and properly optimized.
Latios @ Lum Berry
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Claw
- Calm Mind
Metagross @ Choice Band
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball
Swampert @ Leftovers
- Earthquake
- Counter
- Surf
- Ice Beam
And now for the streaks and how they ended:
-Tower (Streak of 80 battles): Gengar survives a Psychic, then proceeds to sweep thanks to Ice and Fire punch.
-Dome (Streak of 34 tournaments): I reached that 7th battle with tucker where i got really cocky as he used the same team every time since the gold fight and i always won by leading my swampert and killing his metagross with EQ, then switching to my own metagross to tank his latias' psychic before exploding and winning.
I got too complacient and got caught off guard when i saw him leading his swampert, i tried to use counter, he did too, then i did it again as it used Mirror coat. By this point my nerves got me and i used EQ next turn, trying to somehow predict a second MC, but he kills me with counter and after that it does the same with metagross using EQs.
-Palace (Streak of 48 battles) : Time to face a team of legends, the first 2 go down thanks to Metagross, but the last is an Articuno that survives with very little health and starts double teaming while recovering HP with leftovers until its able to put up a substite. From that point on it starts hitting me with the Blizzards it was witholding and sweeps as im not able to touch it. Neither latios or Swampert could survive and metagross was already dead. This one probably hurt the most yet as i was very confident seeing that articuno was at low health, specially being the last mon of the set.
-Dojo (Streak of 73 battles): It starts with Scizor vs Latios (Scizor wins by using sword dance and Silver wind). Then my Metagross beats it by using Earthquakes, which in turned is beaten by a Heracross that survives a Meteor Mash and then counters. Swampert eats a Megahorn before finishing whit surf. Unfortunately last comes a parasect that that Giga Drains me after surviving an Ice Beam.
-Pike (Streak of 163 rooms cleared): too many double battles in a row weakend my team one after the other but i dont remember what specifically ended up killing me.
Although i have all 7 Gold Symbols i will only be sharing 5 streaks now, all of them on the Singles Level 50 format and done on a retail copy of Emerald (none of them ongoing as i eventually lost on all 5). The other 2 are the Factory which i was only able to beat using RNG manipulation (and therefore is not valid under the rules of this thread) and the Pyramid (which i fell deserves its own post and will be written as a replay to this later on).
The team is based on the one used by Werester and Exarion in their All Gold Symbols speedruns (so thanks to them for providing the blueprints for the run). These are Latios, Metagross and Swampert. Whith the only difference that the latter 2 didn't even have the right natures or ivs, only Latios is Modest and properly optimized.
Latios @ Lum Berry
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Claw
- Calm Mind
Metagross @ Choice Band
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball
Swampert @ Leftovers
- Earthquake
- Counter
- Surf
- Ice Beam
And now for the streaks and how they ended:
-Tower (Streak of 80 battles): Gengar survives a Psychic, then proceeds to sweep thanks to Ice and Fire punch.
-Dome (Streak of 34 tournaments): I reached that 7th battle with tucker where i got really cocky as he used the same team every time since the gold fight and i always won by leading my swampert and killing his metagross with EQ, then switching to my own metagross to tank his latias' psychic before exploding and winning.
I got too complacient and got caught off guard when i saw him leading his swampert, i tried to use counter, he did too, then i did it again as it used Mirror coat. By this point my nerves got me and i used EQ next turn, trying to somehow predict a second MC, but he kills me with counter and after that it does the same with metagross using EQs.
-Palace (Streak of 48 battles) : Time to face a team of legends, the first 2 go down thanks to Metagross, but the last is an Articuno that survives with very little health and starts double teaming while recovering HP with leftovers until its able to put up a substite. From that point on it starts hitting me with the Blizzards it was witholding and sweeps as im not able to touch it. Neither latios or Swampert could survive and metagross was already dead. This one probably hurt the most yet as i was very confident seeing that articuno was at low health, specially being the last mon of the set.
-Dojo (Streak of 73 battles): It starts with Scizor vs Latios (Scizor wins by using sword dance and Silver wind). Then my Metagross beats it by using Earthquakes, which in turned is beaten by a Heracross that survives a Meteor Mash and then counters. Swampert eats a Megahorn before finishing whit surf. Unfortunately last comes a parasect that that Giga Drains me after surviving an Ice Beam.
-Pike (Streak of 163 rooms cleared): too many double battles in a row weakend my team one after the other but i dont remember what specifically ended up killing me.
Attachments
And now , as i promised on my last (and also first) post i will be reporting on the most important of my streaks, also done on the same retail copy of Emerald and the level 50 format.
This is my favorite battle facility, not only because it feels like the most distinct one in the franchise but exploration is usually the aspect i enjoy the most in videogames. So i think is pretty fitting that i was blessed with such a good run here as i dont think i would be able to sink this much time anywhere while having as much fun as i had inside these lively and at first dark corridors.
The team i used here was the same as in the other facilities, only this time substituting Metagross' Explosion with Brick Break and Swampert's Counter with Rock Slide. The items (when i was able to find them) were a Lum Berry for Latios, Choice Band for Metagross and Shell Bell for Swampert. Sometimes i would also put a shell bell on Latios if it was at low health so i could recover hp by KOing wild pokemon and thus using as little hyper potions as possible.
I started the run by just attempting to get the Gold Symbol and be done with this whole challenge. So for the first 70 floors i followed Exarion's notes and that made it easier but i had found too little healing items to the point Latios died to a Dewgong's Sheer Cold on the 1st floor of 10th round so i thought i wouldn't be able to beat Brandon even if i managed to traverse the next six floors. But luckily i did reach the peak while picking up a revive and hyper potion along the way so i was able to confront the Pyramid King with some confidence.
The battle started by me leading Metagross with an almost red health bar. He sends out Articuno and kills me with a single Blizzard. This was bad as it was crucial to wipe out the ice bird before sending Latios out (and Meteor Mash was my most reliable way of doing so). Nonetheless i decide to to see if Swampert (which came out with less than half his health) could help here. He survives a Blizzard! And then lands a Rock slide! Thanks to this, Latios was able to win by setting up 2 calm minds on the first turns against Moltres and Zapdos before using Thunderbolt and Psychic to finish them off.
I've managed to do it! But wait. I still have to die before posting the streak and i'm very curious to see how do the next rounds feel as i knew there were at least ten more levels i had never experienced nor even imagined i could explore someday.
I was as excited as terrified as i wouldn't have any guide for these next challenges so i would be forced to improvise while also having no more healing items. So this is how it went:
-Round 11: Fighting types are easilly KOd by Latios' Psychic. (I could use shell bell here and started to find more items. Seems i can explore a little more).
-Round 12: I guess the best i can do is lead Metagross and switch for things like Gyarados (Latios' Thunderbolt) or flareon (Swampert's EQ).
-Round 13: I lead metagross and it works really well. Only really afraid of forretress but i manage to run from most.
-Round 14: Lead is metagross once again. Brick Break does most of the work but for houndooms i have to bring Swampert.
-Round 15: Lead latios with Thunderbolt and shell bell as i knew i didnt KO everything in one hit, specially on later floors so some recovery would come in handy.
WTF Brandon again? Already? Ok i have both Metagross and latios at full health so this time i repeat the original plan and win easily.
-Round 16: Metagross uses Shadow Ball to dispose of those ghost types
-Round 17: Swampert leads. Switch to Metagross for scizor and forretres (and run). Surf+surf for skarmory if low leveled enough.
-Round 18: Latios loves this level plagued with dragons and fliers. Other good one for the shell bell.
-Round 19: Latios leads but switch to Swampert for electric and fire types.
-Round 20: Metagross with Brick Break and taking a lot of damage (needing some revives and quite the luck) brings me once again against Brandon. I win and i can't believe i mange to complete those 20 rounds, 140 floors, a whole run through the Pyramid!.
But wait, i have quite some healing items and i now know how this whole thing goes. So why not try and see if i can complete another run? That's exactly what i do and not only i complete that one, but the next one, and the next one after that one, and so on, until i reach this point where i am at 700 floors cleared! I have won 5 whole runs of 20 rounds in a row which should put me on the top of the Pyramid records, something i couldn't have ever imagined, not even at the very start of the run.
I hope this inspires others to try this team, this facility or the whole challenge, as if i could accomplish it while not having even fully optimized mons while also having a lot of fun, if you are interested and have the time, i wholeheartedly suggest you to at least give it a try.
I would also liked to thank some of my friends, specially Jorge, who helped training and planning the team and the other Carlos, who helped me win my very first silver symbol at the pike when we were children and has been with me since. Also thanks to others like Wisy, Ato, Alex or Lamas, who with i have shared some good times through this whole pokémon journey.
As for me i guees i'll see where i can push this streak as long as i keep having fun. For now i guess i'll try to cross the 1000 floors mark. As i have plenty of items it is doable so long as i don't have terrible luck or i'm incredibly stupid (both of which could happen). I'll report with whatever ends up happening.
Attachments
For clarity's sake, as i might have been caught up in the writing and not stated it directly, here i am submitting an ongoing streak of 700 floors cleared on the Battle Pyramid Level 50 which is being played on a Spanish retail copy of Emerald.
Long post inbound, so wrapping it up into neat chunks.
The recent chatter about the Battle Tower in Ruby/Sapphire got me motivated to finally give it a proper try, having not put much time into it previously.
However! As fun as it might be to crush the simpletons in the RS Battle Tower, that's not what this thread is for so I thought I'd update with a brand new streak I've currently got active on Emerald.
The recent chatter about the Battle Tower in Ruby/Sapphire got me motivated to finally give it a proper try, having not put much time into it previously.
So I decided to grab a few random Pokemon and see how far I could make it. Seeing as Ruby and Sapphire's Battle Tower plays by 200 rules, I thought I'd get into the spirit of things and do the same. I could have used the old reliable trio of Slaking, Metagross, and Latios, but it would absolutely be overkill - the limited pool of foes, in conjunction with the foes' awful AI and movesets, means that some relatively poor species can absolutely thrive here. It would have been cool if the RS Tower had mons from outside Hoenn like the Frontier does, but there's a kitschy sort of appeal in only facing a limited pool (and not having to worry about ever meeting Blissey).
The long and short of it is... this place really ain't that much of a challenge. Considering that my efforts here weren't that serious of an attempt, I made it way further than I would have if I'd been using the same team in Emerald's Tower. I've got the BradyGames guide for RS and it hypes up the Tower as "the toughest challenge you'll encounter in the game". Which... uh... doesn't speak highly of the rest of the game, really. Especially considering it mentions chasing down Lati@s on the very same page!
The long and short of it is... this place really ain't that much of a challenge. Considering that my efforts here weren't that serious of an attempt, I made it way further than I would have if I'd been using the same team in Emerald's Tower. I've got the BradyGames guide for RS and it hypes up the Tower as "the toughest challenge you'll encounter in the game". Which... uh... doesn't speak highly of the rest of the game, really. Especially considering it mentions chasing down Lati@s on the very same page!
Anyway. After thinking primarily along the lines of "what would be fun to use?", I chose five species and decided to mix and match them.
Sintariis @ Lum Berry (Liquid Ooze)
Surf
Ice Beam
Giga Drain
Mirror Coat
252 Sp.Att/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
After discussing the merits of Tentacruel with Newusername2000 a while back I'd been interested in trying it out. It made for a great lead here, with high enough Special Attack to score reliable KOs. To be honest Timid felt a little like overkill given the relative slowness of the RS Tower; Modest would definitely have worked.
Mirror Coat seems a little counterintuitive given the unpredictable pattern of the AI. However, it gives you a way to outdamage certain matchups like Kingdra and Milotic where neither side has a supereffective option against the other. Hidden Power Electric could have been fun, but only really hits Gyarados and Pelipper; if I'd gone with a Hasty or Mild nature, Sludge Bomb would also have been great for a super-effective option against Ludicolo and a chance to poison bulkier foes. This individual had Liquid Ooze which came in handy every so often to punish Leech Seed users. It's the better option overall, Clear Body isn't much use in this environment.
Astador @ Choice Band (Guts)
Hyper Beam
Aerial Ace
Double-Edge
Hidden Power Steel
252 Attack/Speed, 6 Sp.Def (Adamant)
Always liked Swellow, although I think it has more mileage as a wrecker in generations where the Toxic Orb exists. The use of Double-Edge is a slight cheat as it's a tutor move from FRLG/Emerald/XD, but Swellow's moveset is so dire I felt it deserved it. Hyper Beam is generally the preferred option against bulkier foes though as, even with a Choice Band, Swellow's attack isn't much to shout about.
Adamant is definitely preferred as the pool of enemy sets are so slow. I haven't found a listing of speed tiers for this facility, but hardly anything outspeeds 349: there are a couple of Hasty Alakazam and neutral-natured Crobat that have max speed investment, but in general the faster species aren't as speedy as you'd expect them to be.
Della @ Shell Bell (Shell Armour)
Surf
Crunch
Ice Beam
Brick Break
58 HP, 200 Attack, 252 Sp.Atk (Quiet)
Always liked Crawdaunt, too. It's slow, but good enough to get by in the early rounds due to its massive power and useful STABs. Wish it got Dragon Dance in this generation, though. I used one with Shell Armour which gave it a very, very little bit more staying power; Brick Break isn't generally what you're using against anything with Intimidate so Hyper Cutter didn't have a lot of utility.
Zennon @ White Herb (Levitate)
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Psychic
Overheat
252 Attack, 248 Sp.Atk, 8 HP (Brave)
Another generally quite underwhelming species I'm fond of. Solrock really doesn't have that much going for it, but can put in some decent work thanks to its impressive mixed coverage. Levitate Pokemon are fun to abuse in a place with stupid AI.
Yuminare @ Scope Lens (Pure Power)
Brick Break
Shadow Ball
Rock Slide
Hidden Power Ground
252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP (Jolly)
A more serious option. Its phenomenal power and comparatively great speed makes it a great sweeper here; it can 2HKO pretty much anything. Jolly makes it fast enough to reliably outspeed most enemies: Hi Jump Kick is inaccurate overkill so I prefer Brick Break. Nothing much else to say about this: good mon, good moves (Rock Slide is another naughty tutor move, I refuse to run Rock Tomb).
Sintariis @ Lum Berry (Liquid Ooze)
Surf
Ice Beam
Giga Drain
Mirror Coat
252 Sp.Att/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
After discussing the merits of Tentacruel with Newusername2000 a while back I'd been interested in trying it out. It made for a great lead here, with high enough Special Attack to score reliable KOs. To be honest Timid felt a little like overkill given the relative slowness of the RS Tower; Modest would definitely have worked.
Mirror Coat seems a little counterintuitive given the unpredictable pattern of the AI. However, it gives you a way to outdamage certain matchups like Kingdra and Milotic where neither side has a supereffective option against the other. Hidden Power Electric could have been fun, but only really hits Gyarados and Pelipper; if I'd gone with a Hasty or Mild nature, Sludge Bomb would also have been great for a super-effective option against Ludicolo and a chance to poison bulkier foes. This individual had Liquid Ooze which came in handy every so often to punish Leech Seed users. It's the better option overall, Clear Body isn't much use in this environment.
Astador @ Choice Band (Guts)
Hyper Beam
Aerial Ace
Double-Edge
Hidden Power Steel
252 Attack/Speed, 6 Sp.Def (Adamant)
Always liked Swellow, although I think it has more mileage as a wrecker in generations where the Toxic Orb exists. The use of Double-Edge is a slight cheat as it's a tutor move from FRLG/Emerald/XD, but Swellow's moveset is so dire I felt it deserved it. Hyper Beam is generally the preferred option against bulkier foes though as, even with a Choice Band, Swellow's attack isn't much to shout about.
Adamant is definitely preferred as the pool of enemy sets are so slow. I haven't found a listing of speed tiers for this facility, but hardly anything outspeeds 349: there are a couple of Hasty Alakazam and neutral-natured Crobat that have max speed investment, but in general the faster species aren't as speedy as you'd expect them to be.
Della @ Shell Bell (Shell Armour)
Surf
Crunch
Ice Beam
Brick Break
58 HP, 200 Attack, 252 Sp.Atk (Quiet)
Always liked Crawdaunt, too. It's slow, but good enough to get by in the early rounds due to its massive power and useful STABs. Wish it got Dragon Dance in this generation, though. I used one with Shell Armour which gave it a very, very little bit more staying power; Brick Break isn't generally what you're using against anything with Intimidate so Hyper Cutter didn't have a lot of utility.
Zennon @ White Herb (Levitate)
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Psychic
Overheat
252 Attack, 248 Sp.Atk, 8 HP (Brave)
Another generally quite underwhelming species I'm fond of. Solrock really doesn't have that much going for it, but can put in some decent work thanks to its impressive mixed coverage. Levitate Pokemon are fun to abuse in a place with stupid AI.
Yuminare @ Scope Lens (Pure Power)
Brick Break
Shadow Ball
Rock Slide
Hidden Power Ground
252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP (Jolly)
A more serious option. Its phenomenal power and comparatively great speed makes it a great sweeper here; it can 2HKO pretty much anything. Jolly makes it fast enough to reliably outspeed most enemies: Hi Jump Kick is inaccurate overkill so I prefer Brick Break. Nothing much else to say about this: good mon, good moves (Rock Slide is another naughty tutor move, I refuse to run Rock Tomb).
I did two streaks here, getting decent numbers each time. In the earlier rounds I alternated all five team members but you won't be surprised to learn that generally speaking the best team setup proved to be either Tentacruel or Medicham in the lead, with Swellow and one of the others as backup.
The variance in this place is hilarious: it's so weird to fight a guy who has a team consisting of Shuppet, Solrock, and Salamence. It's probably because of this that I made it to battle 60 without ever seeing a Glalie. Or Regice. Or Latios!
I broke my first streak at battle 53 to Expert Mindy, with Electrode and Wobbuffet. I'd brought Crawdaunt instead of Tentacruel this time and fell victim to Thunderbolt; Medicham revenge killed and then got sniped by Wobbuffet's Counter. Saving Swellow for last is always a stupid thing to do: it got locked into Double-Edge, which inevitably backfired when her final Pokemon turned out to be a Nosepass. If the AI had indulged me by being stupid I possibly could have 5HKO'd, but it used Explosion on turn 1 for a double KO which of course meant a CPU victory.
The next streak proved much more fruitful. Had a seriously good turnaround quite late in the run against a Muk-Metagross-Shedinja team: Muk got a QC KO on Medicham, Swellow revenge killed, Metagross came out so I switched to Tentacruel and managed to get it to 40% with Surf before it knocked me out. I sent out Swellow again, decided to gamble and used Hyper Beam... and of course, Shedinja came out last. But, since its only attacking move was Shadow Ball, I figured it was worth chancing it not using Toxic for a few turns. I used up my Hyper Beam PP and got the KO with Struggle, and it poisoned me too late for the residual damage to kill me. Thank god I didn't max any of my team's PP.
I eventually broke my streak at 77 battles. Can't actually remember this loss too well; I believe Tentacruel got sniped by a surprise Mirror Coat and it was all downhill from there.
Kind of tempting to come back with a proper gold-standard team and really push my streak, but... no rush.
The variance in this place is hilarious: it's so weird to fight a guy who has a team consisting of Shuppet, Solrock, and Salamence. It's probably because of this that I made it to battle 60 without ever seeing a Glalie. Or Regice. Or Latios!
I broke my first streak at battle 53 to Expert Mindy, with Electrode and Wobbuffet. I'd brought Crawdaunt instead of Tentacruel this time and fell victim to Thunderbolt; Medicham revenge killed and then got sniped by Wobbuffet's Counter. Saving Swellow for last is always a stupid thing to do: it got locked into Double-Edge, which inevitably backfired when her final Pokemon turned out to be a Nosepass. If the AI had indulged me by being stupid I possibly could have 5HKO'd, but it used Explosion on turn 1 for a double KO which of course meant a CPU victory.
The next streak proved much more fruitful. Had a seriously good turnaround quite late in the run against a Muk-Metagross-Shedinja team: Muk got a QC KO on Medicham, Swellow revenge killed, Metagross came out so I switched to Tentacruel and managed to get it to 40% with Surf before it knocked me out. I sent out Swellow again, decided to gamble and used Hyper Beam... and of course, Shedinja came out last. But, since its only attacking move was Shadow Ball, I figured it was worth chancing it not using Toxic for a few turns. I used up my Hyper Beam PP and got the KO with Struggle, and it poisoned me too late for the residual damage to kill me. Thank god I didn't max any of my team's PP.
I eventually broke my streak at 77 battles. Can't actually remember this loss too well; I believe Tentacruel got sniped by a surprise Mirror Coat and it was all downhill from there.
Kind of tempting to come back with a proper gold-standard team and really push my streak, but... no rush.
Now for something fun! Some interesting differences crop up when you look into the workings of the two facilities:
Why would you actively make this set worse by not giving it any Attack EVs
Same question, but for Speed
Scratch? Really?
This is like something RBY-era Blue would use to challenge the Elite Four
Confound and disorient your foes by using Tail Whip to lower their Defence and then using Psych Up to copy their lowered Defence!
Howl with no Physical moves, because what I really wanted was to OHKO myself from confusion damage all along
Ah yes, the Dragon Fang, very much the item of choice for any discerning Pokemon wanting to boost the power of a Water-type move
Full Attack EVs with Crunch? This guy's ahead of his time
Ah yes, the Blackglasses, very much the item of choice for any discerning Pokemon wanting to boost the power of a Psychic-type move
...wait, did we have that already?
Don't listen to the haters, a true genius puts EVs into his Shedinja's defenses to turn those pesky 2HKOs into 3HKOs
Carrying a Dragon Fang and using Dragon Rage feels like the sort of tactic you'd expect from your dumb cousin who played Pokemon Silver for about three weeks
Lately I've been concerned that my Flygon's Earthquake is doing too much damage, so I decided to run a Timid nature and put EVs in every stat except Attack so that my enemies have a fair chance of surviving it
Really should bring a Ghost to this place, it's frankly embarrassing how much stuff here simply cannot touch them
- Unlike in Emerald, hitting 50 wins precisely (not 56) is enough to get you the silver shield; I broke my first streak at 53 and the owner showed up to reward me.
- IVs in the RS Tower are determined by the trainer you face, NOT your win streak. This is apparently the case in Emerald too but, curiously enough, in Emerald no enemy set uses Hidden Power (with the obvious exception of Unown). In RS precisely one does and, because of the variance in IVs between trainers, the Hidden Power type is different depending which trainer you're facing: for one trainer it will be Fighting and a lower base power, whereas for another it will be Dark and a higher base power.
- You can't quit your streak by running from battles here.
- How the AI chooses moves appears to be more or less random, at least for the initial few rounds. After 49 battles the AI seems to get a little better: foes were actually using the right moves against me fairly consistently, though there were still some nonsensical choices made every so often.
- Enemy natures, EV spreads, and movesets are frequently hilariously bad. General rule of thumb is that the higher in the game's internal listing they are the better they get, but even at the top there are still some stinkers. Here are a few of my favourites from level 100:
Why would you actively make this set worse by not giving it any Attack EVs
Same question, but for Speed
Scratch? Really?
This is like something RBY-era Blue would use to challenge the Elite Four
Confound and disorient your foes by using Tail Whip to lower their Defence and then using Psych Up to copy their lowered Defence!
Howl with no Physical moves, because what I really wanted was to OHKO myself from confusion damage all along
Ah yes, the Dragon Fang, very much the item of choice for any discerning Pokemon wanting to boost the power of a Water-type move
Full Attack EVs with Crunch? This guy's ahead of his time
Ah yes, the Blackglasses, very much the item of choice for any discerning Pokemon wanting to boost the power of a Psychic-type move
...wait, did we have that already?
Don't listen to the haters, a true genius puts EVs into his Shedinja's defenses to turn those pesky 2HKOs into 3HKOs
Carrying a Dragon Fang and using Dragon Rage feels like the sort of tactic you'd expect from your dumb cousin who played Pokemon Silver for about three weeks
Lately I've been concerned that my Flygon's Earthquake is doing too much damage, so I decided to run a Timid nature and put EVs in every stat except Attack so that my enemies have a fair chance of surviving it
Really should bring a Ghost to this place, it's frankly embarrassing how much stuff here simply cannot touch them
However! As fun as it might be to crush the simpletons in the RS Battle Tower, that's not what this thread is for so I thought I'd update with a brand new streak I've currently got active on Emerald.
I was quite inspired by GOSCIZOR's Dome Doubles team and have been wanting to experiment with something similar for ages. The tactic of combining Explosion with a Ghost-type is a fun one: Metagross and Sableye make a fantastically effective duo that can basically guarantee a successful use of Explosion 90% of the time thanks to Sableye's access to Fake Out and Metagross's decent Speed.
Of course, you could simply repeat that formula for your backup slots - using some combination of Wailord, Shiftry, Regirock, Regice, Electrode, Muk, Glalie, Golem, Camerupt, Cloyster, Nosepass, Lunatone, Solrock, Steelix, Torkoal, Weezing, Forretress, Sudowoodo, Claydol, Snorlax, and/or Gengar and having them both blow up while Sableye points and laughs at your opponent. But that's gimmicky and kind of uninspired; I felt like being a bit more creative. So as the two as leads were more or less nailed-on, I contemplated who else I could use to back them up.
Building the Team]
150917 @ Salac Berry (Clear Body)
Hidden Power Steel
Shadow Ball
Brick Break
Explosion
252 Attack/Speed, 6 Sp.Def (Adamant)
The obvious lead. I actually briefly considered using Electrode (the in-game trade Electrode from FRLG has a beneficial nature, serviceable IVs, and an Ice-type Hidden Power) purely for the fact that its immense Speed practically guarantees getting off an Explosion in most cases. But it's far weaker and can't really do much else outside of blowing up - not to mention, it's vulnerable to a range of things Metagross deals with better. It's worth testing, but probably has much more overall utility on a weather team.
I've been talked round on Hidden Power Steel vs Meteor Mash. HP Steel falls short of KOs on certain foes, but Metagross is generally faster and Fake Out allows the 2HKO without much cost if the second foe isn't threatening. Shadow Ball is - obviously - there for Ghosts, while Brick Break takes care of things like Aggron, Regirock, and Registeel who make Explosion undesirable. Otherwise its job is to explode as soon as possible, and take as many enemies down with it as possible.
Salac Berry is there to give it a second wind and to get the jump on faster things, but it could definitely find a better item. Liechi is probably a better option overall. It lets Explosion OHKO Skarmory for certain and nudges both Steelix and Registeel into being possible KOs. But of those only Registeel is a truly troubling foe so I'm torn.
The unrealistic-but-ideal scenario is that Metagross can safely KO both leads without having to sacrifice itself and then explode on the two backups (it has happened, but rarely). The most realistic "easy win" is that Metagross can pick off one of the two leads and then explode the next turn leaving the state of play 3v1. A win is all but guaranteed in this case.
Yamil @ Leftovers (Keen Eye)
Fake Out
Toxic
Protect
Recover
248 HP, 20 Defence, 240 SpDef (Bold)
The other obvious lead. Fake Out allows you to block a potentially troublesome foe and give Metagross freedom to blow up (or potentially facilitate a switch, though that's rarely an optimal tactic). I considered Night Shade over Toxic but the latter is more reliable against passive foes and is basically an insta-win against weaker opponents if the battle comes down to just Sableye alone, which happens with some frequency. It works delightfully in conjunction with Gen III's switching mechanics when both the opposing leads are slower than Metagross and don't need to be flinched: Metagross explodes, both foes faint, and Sableye uses Toxic straight away on one of the incoming mons.
Even though Ghost-types are unaffected by Explosion, Protect is crucial to Sableye's longevity as opponents tend to prefer targeting it with status moves and can be baited with great predictability when its HP gets low. It's also proven critical in longer fights as a lot of powerful moves will still 2HKO Sableye, so allowing for that extra turn of Leftovers recovery can allow it to survive the next hit and use Recover. All of its moves have their PP maxed to give it as much staying power as possible in protracted stall battles and ensure that the opponent Struggles first. I wish it had room for Rest, or could even carry a Lum Berry, as being poisoned can prove hard to deal with, but this hasn't (yet) cost me a match. I even considered the merits of Calm Mind+Faint Attack, since nothing is immune to Dark and it ignores evasion boosts, but quickly dismissed this as impractical.
For my backup slots, I got to thinking about what could work to quickly and efficiently end battles, as well as what Metagross doesn't like dealing with. Fast Earthquake users are unpleasant, as are Ghosts and generally bulky physical mons - a fast special attacker can cover a lot of that, but many fast special attackers are frail and easily picked off.
Thinking this over, though, I rationalised that something on the frailer side might actually work well in conjunction with Sableye, especially if attackers are motivated to go for its partner first and allow it time to poison them. Having never used Destiny Bond on a serious team before (as far as I can remember) Gardevoir struck me as a fun option, since it can KO a lot of stuff and has a reliable way to take out opponents it can't beat.
Shaye @ Lum Berry (Synchronise)
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Punch
Destiny Bond
252 SA/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
Gardevoir: very straightforward in how it plays. The old SynchoLum strategy is as good as ever; Ice Punch and Thunderbolt cover a multitude of sins, while Psychic is your bread-and-butter coverage against most foes. It'd be good if Destiny Bond had slightly more PP, but foes that can KO you generally don't wait for very long to do that so I've never found myself running out.
It does what it does incredibly well, but I'd hardly call it flawless. Even with Timid, it really needs to be just a touch faster. Alakazam outclasses it in both speed and power - I just wish the latter learned Destiny Bond. To be honest even without that I'm debating making the switch: Alakazam can run all three elemental punches, OHKOs Scizor in all instances, and outruns way more stuff even with a Modest nature.
Although Gardevoir's moves hit a lot of things Metagross doesn't like, there's still a huge amount of stuff that troubles it that Gardevoir can't always efficiently deal with: namely Fire, Ground, Rock, and Steel opponents. One Pokemon came to mind as a counter to all of those types, and one I'd also been interested in trying out since others have used it on teams in this thread.
Macron @ Shell Bell (Water Absorb)
Hydro Pump
Brick Break
Ice Beam
Haze
252 Attack, 236 Sp.Atk, 16 Defence, 6 Speed (Brave)
Poliwrath was a mon I'd wanted to experiment with for a while after using one in my very first playthrough of SoulSilver many years back. It's not as good as it is post-physical/special split, but it's certainly a fun and unconventional option.
I'd normally be inclined to avoid Hydro Pump because of the low accuracy, but Poliwrath's underwhelming Special Attack kind of forces it - thankfully, I've not had too many misses. Even with a Brave nature, the extra point in Speed allows it to outrun all Tyranitar variants, the majority of which can be cleanly OHKO'd with Brick Break.
Some might question why Poliwrath specifically, given that it's hardly a top-tier mon. True enough, there's any number of Water or Fighting types I could have used as a backup. Poliwrath, however, has one chief advantage - it learns Haze.
Why does this matter? Because this team badly needs an answer to Double Teamers, especially those who pop up AFTER Metagross has fainted. After getting conclusively outplayed by Snorlax1 22 battles in (Sableye was stalemated - unable to be Attracted, unable to poison it due to Immunity, and both their Struggles would be too weak to outdamage the recovery from Leftovers) I realised that Haze would have allowed Poliwrath (waiting listlessly in the back, with no hope of landing a hit with Brick Break thanks to Snorlax's evasion boosts) to snatch the win. Gardevoir would have been able to Destiny Bond even despite the evasion boosts but, being female, fell prey to Attract. Adding Haze to its movepool allowed me to deal with those problematic foes: on two occasions I've outlasted Gardevoir2 by switching back and forth between Sableye and Poliwrath to bait it into using up all its Psychic PP so I could safely use Haze and eventually bring it down.
I feel like it could be better, though. The item choice was more out of a lack of options than anything else (rejected: Brightpowder, Quick Claw, Sitrus Berry, Starf Berry) but works well enough: Poliwrath's good typing and decent natural bulk means that it can shrug off a lot of hits, and the small HP recovery allows it to last slightly longer and hopefully win wars of attrition. Meanwhile Ice Beam is rarely used but very occasionally comes in handy, though most of the things it's good against have ways to kill you anyway. Flygon for instance is only a guaranteed KO if Poliwrath has over 60% HP as it will outspeed and do ~50% with Earthquake. You're not even guaranteed a KO on Salamence, miserably. I did initially consider Icy Wind, but the Speed drop doesn't do a lot for the rest of the team: Sableye is too slow for a -1 drop to consistently help, and Gardevoir outspeeds a lot of stuff already.
All of this is moot, though, as Poliwrath rarely actually puts in an appearance due to Sableye's incredible staying power. Between them Metagross, Gardevoir, and Sableye are generally capable of taking out four foes, so it's rare for Poliwrath to actively participate in more than one or two battles out of seven. But I'd like to improve it if I can.
Of course, you could simply repeat that formula for your backup slots - using some combination of Wailord, Shiftry, Regirock, Regice, Electrode, Muk, Glalie, Golem, Camerupt, Cloyster, Nosepass, Lunatone, Solrock, Steelix, Torkoal, Weezing, Forretress, Sudowoodo, Claydol, Snorlax, and/or Gengar and having them both blow up while Sableye points and laughs at your opponent. But that's gimmicky and kind of uninspired; I felt like being a bit more creative. So as the two as leads were more or less nailed-on, I contemplated who else I could use to back them up.
Building the Team]
150917 @ Salac Berry (Clear Body)
Hidden Power Steel
Shadow Ball
Brick Break
Explosion
252 Attack/Speed, 6 Sp.Def (Adamant)
The obvious lead. I actually briefly considered using Electrode (the in-game trade Electrode from FRLG has a beneficial nature, serviceable IVs, and an Ice-type Hidden Power) purely for the fact that its immense Speed practically guarantees getting off an Explosion in most cases. But it's far weaker and can't really do much else outside of blowing up - not to mention, it's vulnerable to a range of things Metagross deals with better. It's worth testing, but probably has much more overall utility on a weather team.
I've been talked round on Hidden Power Steel vs Meteor Mash. HP Steel falls short of KOs on certain foes, but Metagross is generally faster and Fake Out allows the 2HKO without much cost if the second foe isn't threatening. Shadow Ball is - obviously - there for Ghosts, while Brick Break takes care of things like Aggron, Regirock, and Registeel who make Explosion undesirable. Otherwise its job is to explode as soon as possible, and take as many enemies down with it as possible.
Salac Berry is there to give it a second wind and to get the jump on faster things, but it could definitely find a better item. Liechi is probably a better option overall. It lets Explosion OHKO Skarmory for certain and nudges both Steelix and Registeel into being possible KOs. But of those only Registeel is a truly troubling foe so I'm torn.
The unrealistic-but-ideal scenario is that Metagross can safely KO both leads without having to sacrifice itself and then explode on the two backups (it has happened, but rarely). The most realistic "easy win" is that Metagross can pick off one of the two leads and then explode the next turn leaving the state of play 3v1. A win is all but guaranteed in this case.
Yamil @ Leftovers (Keen Eye)
Fake Out
Toxic
Protect
Recover
248 HP, 20 Defence, 240 SpDef (Bold)
The other obvious lead. Fake Out allows you to block a potentially troublesome foe and give Metagross freedom to blow up (or potentially facilitate a switch, though that's rarely an optimal tactic). I considered Night Shade over Toxic but the latter is more reliable against passive foes and is basically an insta-win against weaker opponents if the battle comes down to just Sableye alone, which happens with some frequency. It works delightfully in conjunction with Gen III's switching mechanics when both the opposing leads are slower than Metagross and don't need to be flinched: Metagross explodes, both foes faint, and Sableye uses Toxic straight away on one of the incoming mons.
Even though Ghost-types are unaffected by Explosion, Protect is crucial to Sableye's longevity as opponents tend to prefer targeting it with status moves and can be baited with great predictability when its HP gets low. It's also proven critical in longer fights as a lot of powerful moves will still 2HKO Sableye, so allowing for that extra turn of Leftovers recovery can allow it to survive the next hit and use Recover. All of its moves have their PP maxed to give it as much staying power as possible in protracted stall battles and ensure that the opponent Struggles first. I wish it had room for Rest, or could even carry a Lum Berry, as being poisoned can prove hard to deal with, but this hasn't (yet) cost me a match. I even considered the merits of Calm Mind+Faint Attack, since nothing is immune to Dark and it ignores evasion boosts, but quickly dismissed this as impractical.
For my backup slots, I got to thinking about what could work to quickly and efficiently end battles, as well as what Metagross doesn't like dealing with. Fast Earthquake users are unpleasant, as are Ghosts and generally bulky physical mons - a fast special attacker can cover a lot of that, but many fast special attackers are frail and easily picked off.
Thinking this over, though, I rationalised that something on the frailer side might actually work well in conjunction with Sableye, especially if attackers are motivated to go for its partner first and allow it time to poison them. Having never used Destiny Bond on a serious team before (as far as I can remember) Gardevoir struck me as a fun option, since it can KO a lot of stuff and has a reliable way to take out opponents it can't beat.
Shaye @ Lum Berry (Synchronise)
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Punch
Destiny Bond
252 SA/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
Gardevoir: very straightforward in how it plays. The old SynchoLum strategy is as good as ever; Ice Punch and Thunderbolt cover a multitude of sins, while Psychic is your bread-and-butter coverage against most foes. It'd be good if Destiny Bond had slightly more PP, but foes that can KO you generally don't wait for very long to do that so I've never found myself running out.
It does what it does incredibly well, but I'd hardly call it flawless. Even with Timid, it really needs to be just a touch faster. Alakazam outclasses it in both speed and power - I just wish the latter learned Destiny Bond. To be honest even without that I'm debating making the switch: Alakazam can run all three elemental punches, OHKOs Scizor in all instances, and outruns way more stuff even with a Modest nature.
Although Gardevoir's moves hit a lot of things Metagross doesn't like, there's still a huge amount of stuff that troubles it that Gardevoir can't always efficiently deal with: namely Fire, Ground, Rock, and Steel opponents. One Pokemon came to mind as a counter to all of those types, and one I'd also been interested in trying out since others have used it on teams in this thread.
Macron @ Shell Bell (Water Absorb)
Hydro Pump
Brick Break
Ice Beam
Haze
252 Attack, 236 Sp.Atk, 16 Defence, 6 Speed (Brave)
Poliwrath was a mon I'd wanted to experiment with for a while after using one in my very first playthrough of SoulSilver many years back. It's not as good as it is post-physical/special split, but it's certainly a fun and unconventional option.
I'd normally be inclined to avoid Hydro Pump because of the low accuracy, but Poliwrath's underwhelming Special Attack kind of forces it - thankfully, I've not had too many misses. Even with a Brave nature, the extra point in Speed allows it to outrun all Tyranitar variants, the majority of which can be cleanly OHKO'd with Brick Break.
Some might question why Poliwrath specifically, given that it's hardly a top-tier mon. True enough, there's any number of Water or Fighting types I could have used as a backup. Poliwrath, however, has one chief advantage - it learns Haze.
Why does this matter? Because this team badly needs an answer to Double Teamers, especially those who pop up AFTER Metagross has fainted. After getting conclusively outplayed by Snorlax1 22 battles in (Sableye was stalemated - unable to be Attracted, unable to poison it due to Immunity, and both their Struggles would be too weak to outdamage the recovery from Leftovers) I realised that Haze would have allowed Poliwrath (waiting listlessly in the back, with no hope of landing a hit with Brick Break thanks to Snorlax's evasion boosts) to snatch the win. Gardevoir would have been able to Destiny Bond even despite the evasion boosts but, being female, fell prey to Attract. Adding Haze to its movepool allowed me to deal with those problematic foes: on two occasions I've outlasted Gardevoir2 by switching back and forth between Sableye and Poliwrath to bait it into using up all its Psychic PP so I could safely use Haze and eventually bring it down.
I feel like it could be better, though. The item choice was more out of a lack of options than anything else (rejected: Brightpowder, Quick Claw, Sitrus Berry, Starf Berry) but works well enough: Poliwrath's good typing and decent natural bulk means that it can shrug off a lot of hits, and the small HP recovery allows it to last slightly longer and hopefully win wars of attrition. Meanwhile Ice Beam is rarely used but very occasionally comes in handy, though most of the things it's good against have ways to kill you anyway. Flygon for instance is only a guaranteed KO if Poliwrath has over 60% HP as it will outspeed and do ~50% with Earthquake. You're not even guaranteed a KO on Salamence, miserably. I did initially consider Icy Wind, but the Speed drop doesn't do a lot for the rest of the team: Sableye is too slow for a -1 drop to consistently help, and Gardevoir outspeeds a lot of stuff already.
All of this is moot, though, as Poliwrath rarely actually puts in an appearance due to Sableye's incredible staying power. Between them Metagross, Gardevoir, and Sableye are generally capable of taking out four foes, so it's rare for Poliwrath to actively participate in more than one or two battles out of seven. But I'd like to improve it if I can.
As intuitive as it'd be to run this as a straight Doubles team, I'm pretty happy with the Lightningrod Doubles team I got a streak of 127 with and if I ever want to stretch my Doubles record that's the one I'd like to persevere with. Being as Multi remains my favourite mode, I thought I'd be fun to develop this as a Link Multi team instead (for "fun", read "I like to make things difficult for myself").
I eventually managed to get to 112 wins with my old reliable Latios+Tauros+Latias+Aerodactyl team at level 50, playing with two GBAs. Seeing as I made it to 300 on Open Level with an NPC partner, I think it's finally time to retire that one: it's about as consistent as a team can really be, and absolutely dominant. I keep wondering whether I should try it in Gen IV, though.
Therefore, this has become my new Multi project! Still early days and I'm still getting to grips with the team, learning what works and what doesn't, so I would welcome people's feedback.
So, as I mentioned last time, doing Link Multi with two GBAs is a real pain. The slightest knock to the Wireless Adaptor often means a disconnect, causing the game to terminate your streak. A further obstacle comes from the fact that both my GBAs are old, and the battery lives on both are distinctly poor. While you can do a round of seven without worry, one extraordinarily long battle could mean doom.
So I decided to solve both problems and ordered a GBA link cable as well as two new USB-to-GBA chargers, which allows me to charge and link simultaneously. This has been a huge QoL upgrade: the link cable assures a much better connection. It's still prone to occasional failure, as I learned to my cost after doing only 7 battles, but with a much lower frequency: as long as they're kept on a flat surface and not moved too much, the cables should stay in place. With my housemate back in the office most days, I set up camp in the corner of our living room and placed the two GBAs on the floor while I worked from home and was able to do 40+ battles in one session.
Dividing four Pokemon between two trainers also means that I had to consider which pair went where. Poliwrath makes a good backup to Metagross type-wise, but ultimately I decided that it was better to have the two "suicidal" mons on the same side to prevent an inadvertent self-own. This has worked well for the reasons outlined. I have two English Emerald files: one with the IGN Joziah, one with the IGN Zircon: Joziah took Metagross and Gardevoir while Zircon took Sableye and Poliwrath. They've so far done three separate streaks of more than 42 battles.
Trainer Joziah Trainer Zircon
I noted this in my previous post about the Link Multi mode, but the fact that both games count their streaks independently allows you to "split" your challenge (i.e. you are not forced to partner with the same person over and over), effectively giving you two chances to achieve a long streak if you part after a certain number. I used this to my advantage: once I hit 49 battles on my third streak, I traded Metagross and Gardevoir to my Japanese Emerald file and paired it with Zircon. Sadly, this streak ended at 57 battles (detailed below).
This meant that the streak on my Joziah save file was preserved, however, so - after subsequently trading Metagross and Gardevoir back - I continued on, partnering with Zircon once again; my streak on that file currently stands at 63 wins. This has left the two games hilariously lopsided since this means that Zircon currently has a streak of 14.
I eventually managed to get to 112 wins with my old reliable Latios+Tauros+Latias+Aerodactyl team at level 50, playing with two GBAs. Seeing as I made it to 300 on Open Level with an NPC partner, I think it's finally time to retire that one: it's about as consistent as a team can really be, and absolutely dominant. I keep wondering whether I should try it in Gen IV, though.
Therefore, this has become my new Multi project! Still early days and I'm still getting to grips with the team, learning what works and what doesn't, so I would welcome people's feedback.
So, as I mentioned last time, doing Link Multi with two GBAs is a real pain. The slightest knock to the Wireless Adaptor often means a disconnect, causing the game to terminate your streak. A further obstacle comes from the fact that both my GBAs are old, and the battery lives on both are distinctly poor. While you can do a round of seven without worry, one extraordinarily long battle could mean doom.
So I decided to solve both problems and ordered a GBA link cable as well as two new USB-to-GBA chargers, which allows me to charge and link simultaneously. This has been a huge QoL upgrade: the link cable assures a much better connection. It's still prone to occasional failure, as I learned to my cost after doing only 7 battles, but with a much lower frequency: as long as they're kept on a flat surface and not moved too much, the cables should stay in place. With my housemate back in the office most days, I set up camp in the corner of our living room and placed the two GBAs on the floor while I worked from home and was able to do 40+ battles in one session.
Dividing four Pokemon between two trainers also means that I had to consider which pair went where. Poliwrath makes a good backup to Metagross type-wise, but ultimately I decided that it was better to have the two "suicidal" mons on the same side to prevent an inadvertent self-own. This has worked well for the reasons outlined. I have two English Emerald files: one with the IGN Joziah, one with the IGN Zircon: Joziah took Metagross and Gardevoir while Zircon took Sableye and Poliwrath. They've so far done three separate streaks of more than 42 battles.
Trainer Joziah Trainer Zircon
I noted this in my previous post about the Link Multi mode, but the fact that both games count their streaks independently allows you to "split" your challenge (i.e. you are not forced to partner with the same person over and over), effectively giving you two chances to achieve a long streak if you part after a certain number. I used this to my advantage: once I hit 49 battles on my third streak, I traded Metagross and Gardevoir to my Japanese Emerald file and paired it with Zircon. Sadly, this streak ended at 57 battles (detailed below).
This meant that the streak on my Joziah save file was preserved, however, so - after subsequently trading Metagross and Gardevoir back - I continued on, partnering with Zircon once again; my streak on that file currently stands at 63 wins. This has left the two games hilariously lopsided since this means that Zircon currently has a streak of 14.
Threats
Steel-types. Just any of them. Metagross struggles against Steels because Brick Break is at best a 2HKO against the majority of them - this isn't a problem if they can't do anything back, but it's annoying to face them nonetheless - while Sableye cannot do squat against them. Scizor and Registeel are probably the most dangerous as Scizor slaughters Gardevoir with ease and can overwhelm Sableye thanks to Metal Claw's absurd amount of PP and likelihood of granting an Attack boost. Rock-types are similarly annoying, but much easier to kill in general.
Aerodactyl (specifically in the backup position). Outspeeds Gardevoir and almost always gets the KO, and Poliwrath can't beat it unless it's the Choice Band variant and locks itself into Ancientpower. Sableye can usually poison it and just about stall it out, but if its partner is still active that becomes difficult. I actually had a rather fun but tedious battle where the two backups were Aerodactyl2 and Nidoqueen2 - Aerodactyl stupidly locked itself into Hyper Beam to finish Gardevoir, leaving itself helpless against Sableye who poisoned it and then proceeded to stall Nidoqueen out of PP so that Poliwrath could finish it off.
Fast leads, specifically those which threaten Metagross. Rhydon is included in this category due to the fact that it always holds a Quick Claw. Usually, if the opponent has a threatening lead which is quicker than Metagross and can potentially wreak havoc it's a prime target for Fake Out but, every so often, you come across one of those annoying trainers with two problematic leads. In that instance all you can do is judge which one is most threatening and pray the other will fail to KO (or, for the Electrics, that the paralysis they'll likely inflict won't stop Metagross from attacking).
Boosters (again specifically in the backup position). They can be hard to stop if they're allowed to get more than a couple of boosts under their belt. Toxic and Destiny Bond mitigate this to an extent - even if something gains a massive boost to its offenses, as long as you outspeed you can still be assured of eventually bringing them down. If they can't heal it's usually possible to outlast them once you've poisoned them.
Legendary teams, specifically when these guys show up. Moltres and Entei pose a threat to Metagross, Registeel and Suicune are horrendously difficult to kill, and Latias/Latios are dangerous when they're in the backup slot. The rest aren't so bad, but my inner twelve year-old still quakes when legendaries emerge.
Despite the strong offensive power this team possesses, battles quite often come down to long stall sessions and/or Struggle wars if Gardevoir falls early. Sableye is more than capable of waiting out weaker opponents, though is 2HKO'd by a surprising amount of stuff despite its lack of weaknesses. Leftovers+Protect helps to alleviate this, though I live in fear of critical hits whenever I end up in this position.
Loss #1 (Joziah/Zircon)
My first loss came rather maddeningly at the 49th battle. The two opposing trainers led with Steelix2 and Flygon2: criminally, I didn't take the time to do due diligence and check the trainer rosters as I was so certain that Flygon would have Earthquake. Steelix is a problem, but I'd somehow managed to not face it as a lead up until then.
I used Fake Out on Flygon and switched Metagross with Gardevoir in hopes of picking Flygon off with Ice Punch. This proved to be an error.
Steelix used Earthquake, bringing Sableye to 60% and Gardevoir to 50%. Then Flygon - faster than Gardevoir - used Solarbeam the next turn, revealing itself as the only Earthquake-less variant. Ice Punch knocked it out but Steelix used Earthquake again and knocked Gardevoir out, also taking 25% off the Wailord that came out after Flygon fell.
Back to Metagross. Not many options here: Brick Break doesn't KO Steelix, and nothing except Explosion will KO Wailord. So I blew up on them both, taking care of Wailord and bringing Steelix to about 50%.
Even at this point, I still could have won, but here's where I made my crucial error. I'd used Protect with Sableye as Metagross blew up to avoid getting hit by inevitable Earthquake, and used it again the next turn to try and scout what other moves it might have. It failed and Steelix used Block, revealing itself to be Steelix2.
This completely fucked me over. Sableye cannot touch Steel-types, and while I could almost certainly have stalled it out to a Struggle war, it'd be an endless battle since both of our Defence stats are just too high and we're both carrying Leftovers. I stalled it out of Dragonbreath PP to stop it paralysing Poliwrath and then intentionally played stupidly to let it kill me. Poliwrath came in on the same turn the sandstorm subsided (swish), got the KO with Hydro Pump... but the final Pokemon was Jolteon, which annihilated Poliwrath with Thunderbolt.
In hindsight, I should not have switched Metagross - it was the first time I'd ever done this, and taught me why it's not a great idea. Exploding on even those foes that resist Normal is generally the best play if I can't get a KO with any of my other moves, or if doing so would give them less opportunity to boost. Skarmory, for instance is very nearly OHKO'd by Explosion and is easy for Gardevoir to deal with. But then again, exploding would have meant having to sacrifice Gardevoir on the following turn anyway, as it would have switched into Steelix's Earthquake. Destiny Bond would have been the best option to bring Steelix down, but that leaves Sableye having to deal with Wailord and Jolteon at once. Not certain it could have outlasted both of them.
Definitely one I could have played better, but a difficult battle in any case. My biggest misstep was not checking the trainer rosters.
Loss #2 (Joziah/Zircon)
A tense battle in which the final Pokemon left on the foe's side was Scizor1. Gardevoir had used Destiny Bond but been hit by Scizor's partner instead, so all I had left were Sableye and Poliwrath. I was alternating Protect and Recover in an attempt to run it out of Metal Claw and Aerial Ace PP, but if Scizor got a critical hit or an Attack boost from Metal Claw I knew it'd be game over. It ended up getting three boosts and due to Metal Claw's absurdly high PP 16 uses of Protect in conjunction with Recover were not enough to drain it: it overwhelmed Sableye and did too much damage for Recover to save it. From there the outcome was pretty much inevitable: Poliwrath actually outspeeds Scizor1 and managed to hit with Hydro Pump, but would have needed a critical hit that didn't come to have secured an OHKO. With boosted attack Aerial Ace was an easy KO.
This loss is what caused me to debate changing Gardevoir for Alakazam. I've since done better at taking Scizor on: a subsequent battle had me in a very similar stuation and I opted to switch straight to Poliwrath, successfully managing to hit Scizor with Hydro Pump twice and bring it just to the edge of defeat. When Sableye came back out, Fake Out did just enough to make it faint. But that's too specific to rely on.
Loss #3 (Zircon/Japanese save file)
Up against a team of Eeveelutions - Jolteon and Flareon were the leads. Metagross easily outspeeds Flareon, so I used Fake Out on Jolteon and selected Explosion. But Jolteon used Protect, so Explosion only hit Flareon, which fell and was replaced by Umbreon.
I decided it was best to focus on getting rid of Jolteon so directed both Gardevoir's Psychic and Sableye's Toxic at it. Jolteon used Attract on Gardevoir (which it managed to attack through) while Umbreon used Confuse Ray on Sableye. Next turn, Gardevoir failed to attack and Jolteon used Thunderbolt on it while I prayed Sableye would snap out of confusion and hit Umbreon with Toxic. No joy, and it began using Double Team. Jolteon got the KO next turn and used Protect the next as Sableye snapped out of confusion but again failed to poison Umbreon. Next turn, I used Protect to block Thunderbolt/Confuse Ray and Jolteon fell to poison damage.
Vaporeon came out to replace Jolteon, and started using Acid Armour while my first attempt at poisoning it failed due to the Lum Berry it was carrying. Argh, it's the Rest set. After blocking a Surf/Faint Attack combo with Protect, I switched Poliwrath in to use Haze. This bought me some time, as both opponents stopped attacking and started trying to recover their lost stat boosts, allowing me to dent Umbreon with Brick Break - one more use of Haze later, I finally brought it down.
Only way to win is to force Vaporeon to use up all its Rest PP, pronto. I switched back to Sableye and... promptly got frozen by Ice Beam the next turn. Didn't thaw out and Vaporeon finished me with Surf.
In theory, Poliwrath could still have won. But Vaporeon's Ice Beam was surprisingly powerful, and the recovery from Shell Bell was just too small to make a difference against repeated hits - even with the Acid Armour boosts removed, Brick Break just didn't do enough damage. We traded blows but Vaporeon killed me first.
Good lesson to learn, though: keep an eye on which end of the link cable goes where. Because the Japanese save file was the "leading" player, all the enemy names were in Japanese so this made checking trainer sets borderline impossible. My Japanese is nowhere near that good. Blowing up on turn 1 wasn't the right thing to do here; if I'd been aware Jolteon had Protect I definitely wouldn't have done that.
Once more so I remember: Always. Check. The. Trainer. Sets. (Though make sure to note both names since, as previously noted, only one Trainer's pool actually gets used in Multi)
Steel-types. Just any of them. Metagross struggles against Steels because Brick Break is at best a 2HKO against the majority of them - this isn't a problem if they can't do anything back, but it's annoying to face them nonetheless - while Sableye cannot do squat against them. Scizor and Registeel are probably the most dangerous as Scizor slaughters Gardevoir with ease and can overwhelm Sableye thanks to Metal Claw's absurd amount of PP and likelihood of granting an Attack boost. Rock-types are similarly annoying, but much easier to kill in general.
Aerodactyl (specifically in the backup position). Outspeeds Gardevoir and almost always gets the KO, and Poliwrath can't beat it unless it's the Choice Band variant and locks itself into Ancientpower. Sableye can usually poison it and just about stall it out, but if its partner is still active that becomes difficult. I actually had a rather fun but tedious battle where the two backups were Aerodactyl2 and Nidoqueen2 - Aerodactyl stupidly locked itself into Hyper Beam to finish Gardevoir, leaving itself helpless against Sableye who poisoned it and then proceeded to stall Nidoqueen out of PP so that Poliwrath could finish it off.
Fast leads, specifically those which threaten Metagross. Rhydon is included in this category due to the fact that it always holds a Quick Claw. Usually, if the opponent has a threatening lead which is quicker than Metagross and can potentially wreak havoc it's a prime target for Fake Out but, every so often, you come across one of those annoying trainers with two problematic leads. In that instance all you can do is judge which one is most threatening and pray the other will fail to KO (or, for the Electrics, that the paralysis they'll likely inflict won't stop Metagross from attacking).
Boosters (again specifically in the backup position). They can be hard to stop if they're allowed to get more than a couple of boosts under their belt. Toxic and Destiny Bond mitigate this to an extent - even if something gains a massive boost to its offenses, as long as you outspeed you can still be assured of eventually bringing them down. If they can't heal it's usually possible to outlast them once you've poisoned them.
Legendary teams, specifically when these guys show up. Moltres and Entei pose a threat to Metagross, Registeel and Suicune are horrendously difficult to kill, and Latias/Latios are dangerous when they're in the backup slot. The rest aren't so bad, but my inner twelve year-old still quakes when legendaries emerge.
Despite the strong offensive power this team possesses, battles quite often come down to long stall sessions and/or Struggle wars if Gardevoir falls early. Sableye is more than capable of waiting out weaker opponents, though is 2HKO'd by a surprising amount of stuff despite its lack of weaknesses. Leftovers+Protect helps to alleviate this, though I live in fear of critical hits whenever I end up in this position.
Loss #1 (Joziah/Zircon)
My first loss came rather maddeningly at the 49th battle. The two opposing trainers led with Steelix2 and Flygon2: criminally, I didn't take the time to do due diligence and check the trainer rosters as I was so certain that Flygon would have Earthquake. Steelix is a problem, but I'd somehow managed to not face it as a lead up until then.
I used Fake Out on Flygon and switched Metagross with Gardevoir in hopes of picking Flygon off with Ice Punch. This proved to be an error.
Steelix used Earthquake, bringing Sableye to 60% and Gardevoir to 50%. Then Flygon - faster than Gardevoir - used Solarbeam the next turn, revealing itself as the only Earthquake-less variant. Ice Punch knocked it out but Steelix used Earthquake again and knocked Gardevoir out, also taking 25% off the Wailord that came out after Flygon fell.
Back to Metagross. Not many options here: Brick Break doesn't KO Steelix, and nothing except Explosion will KO Wailord. So I blew up on them both, taking care of Wailord and bringing Steelix to about 50%.
Even at this point, I still could have won, but here's where I made my crucial error. I'd used Protect with Sableye as Metagross blew up to avoid getting hit by inevitable Earthquake, and used it again the next turn to try and scout what other moves it might have. It failed and Steelix used Block, revealing itself to be Steelix2.
This completely fucked me over. Sableye cannot touch Steel-types, and while I could almost certainly have stalled it out to a Struggle war, it'd be an endless battle since both of our Defence stats are just too high and we're both carrying Leftovers. I stalled it out of Dragonbreath PP to stop it paralysing Poliwrath and then intentionally played stupidly to let it kill me. Poliwrath came in on the same turn the sandstorm subsided (swish), got the KO with Hydro Pump... but the final Pokemon was Jolteon, which annihilated Poliwrath with Thunderbolt.
In hindsight, I should not have switched Metagross - it was the first time I'd ever done this, and taught me why it's not a great idea. Exploding on even those foes that resist Normal is generally the best play if I can't get a KO with any of my other moves, or if doing so would give them less opportunity to boost. Skarmory, for instance is very nearly OHKO'd by Explosion and is easy for Gardevoir to deal with. But then again, exploding would have meant having to sacrifice Gardevoir on the following turn anyway, as it would have switched into Steelix's Earthquake. Destiny Bond would have been the best option to bring Steelix down, but that leaves Sableye having to deal with Wailord and Jolteon at once. Not certain it could have outlasted both of them.
Definitely one I could have played better, but a difficult battle in any case. My biggest misstep was not checking the trainer rosters.
Loss #2 (Joziah/Zircon)
A tense battle in which the final Pokemon left on the foe's side was Scizor1. Gardevoir had used Destiny Bond but been hit by Scizor's partner instead, so all I had left were Sableye and Poliwrath. I was alternating Protect and Recover in an attempt to run it out of Metal Claw and Aerial Ace PP, but if Scizor got a critical hit or an Attack boost from Metal Claw I knew it'd be game over. It ended up getting three boosts and due to Metal Claw's absurdly high PP 16 uses of Protect in conjunction with Recover were not enough to drain it: it overwhelmed Sableye and did too much damage for Recover to save it. From there the outcome was pretty much inevitable: Poliwrath actually outspeeds Scizor1 and managed to hit with Hydro Pump, but would have needed a critical hit that didn't come to have secured an OHKO. With boosted attack Aerial Ace was an easy KO.
This loss is what caused me to debate changing Gardevoir for Alakazam. I've since done better at taking Scizor on: a subsequent battle had me in a very similar stuation and I opted to switch straight to Poliwrath, successfully managing to hit Scizor with Hydro Pump twice and bring it just to the edge of defeat. When Sableye came back out, Fake Out did just enough to make it faint. But that's too specific to rely on.
Loss #3 (Zircon/Japanese save file)
Up against a team of Eeveelutions - Jolteon and Flareon were the leads. Metagross easily outspeeds Flareon, so I used Fake Out on Jolteon and selected Explosion. But Jolteon used Protect, so Explosion only hit Flareon, which fell and was replaced by Umbreon.
I decided it was best to focus on getting rid of Jolteon so directed both Gardevoir's Psychic and Sableye's Toxic at it. Jolteon used Attract on Gardevoir (which it managed to attack through) while Umbreon used Confuse Ray on Sableye. Next turn, Gardevoir failed to attack and Jolteon used Thunderbolt on it while I prayed Sableye would snap out of confusion and hit Umbreon with Toxic. No joy, and it began using Double Team. Jolteon got the KO next turn and used Protect the next as Sableye snapped out of confusion but again failed to poison Umbreon. Next turn, I used Protect to block Thunderbolt/Confuse Ray and Jolteon fell to poison damage.
Vaporeon came out to replace Jolteon, and started using Acid Armour while my first attempt at poisoning it failed due to the Lum Berry it was carrying. Argh, it's the Rest set. After blocking a Surf/Faint Attack combo with Protect, I switched Poliwrath in to use Haze. This bought me some time, as both opponents stopped attacking and started trying to recover their lost stat boosts, allowing me to dent Umbreon with Brick Break - one more use of Haze later, I finally brought it down.
Only way to win is to force Vaporeon to use up all its Rest PP, pronto. I switched back to Sableye and... promptly got frozen by Ice Beam the next turn. Didn't thaw out and Vaporeon finished me with Surf.
In theory, Poliwrath could still have won. But Vaporeon's Ice Beam was surprisingly powerful, and the recovery from Shell Bell was just too small to make a difference against repeated hits - even with the Acid Armour boosts removed, Brick Break just didn't do enough damage. We traded blows but Vaporeon killed me first.
Good lesson to learn, though: keep an eye on which end of the link cable goes where. Because the Japanese save file was the "leading" player, all the enemy names were in Japanese so this made checking trainer sets borderline impossible. My Japanese is nowhere near that good. Blowing up on turn 1 wasn't the right thing to do here; if I'd been aware Jolteon had Protect I definitely wouldn't have done that.
Once more so I remember: Always. Check. The. Trainer. Sets. (Though make sure to note both names since, as previously noted, only one Trainer's pool actually gets used in Multi)
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Good morning! I wanted to share an update on the Pyramid Streak (ongoing, lvl. 50, retail) from last week.
I have finally crossed that 1000 floors cleared mark! (1001 for now) with the same Latios, Metagross and Swampert team. In hindsight, i should probably have waited and post this directly, but i didn' t know if it was going to really happen. And to be fair, it was probably the hype of posting the first time and the fact that the charts are not yet updated, what caused me to crunch this past week so i could enter the rankings with this beautiful number. The patience acquired from years of shiny hunting might have helped a little bit too.
Don't worry, from now on the updates will be more sparse as i can find no reasonable way (nor time) to continue at this pace. But i will revisit this (my now favorite place in the franchise) from time to time as i feel it is kind of therapeutic to see the streak grow, now that i don't have to worry much about the items and i know mostly what to expect.
See you in some hundred floors in the future and have a great day everyone!
I have finally crossed that 1000 floors cleared mark! (1001 for now) with the same Latios, Metagross and Swampert team. In hindsight, i should probably have waited and post this directly, but i didn' t know if it was going to really happen. And to be fair, it was probably the hype of posting the first time and the fact that the charts are not yet updated, what caused me to crunch this past week so i could enter the rankings with this beautiful number. The patience acquired from years of shiny hunting might have helped a little bit too.
Don't worry, from now on the updates will be more sparse as i can find no reasonable way (nor time) to continue at this pace. But i will revisit this (my now favorite place in the franchise) from time to time as i feel it is kind of therapeutic to see the streak grow, now that i don't have to worry much about the items and i know mostly what to expect.
See you in some hundred floors in the future and have a great day everyone!
Attachments
Hello everyone! It looks like I'm the first ever to report a winning streak (greater than 42 wins) in Battle Palace Doubles, Open Level, so here I go:
Battle Palace Doubles. Win streak: 62. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Gordon (Snorlax) @ Chesto Berry
Level 100 Stats: 501/300/200/140/292/86
Brave Nature
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Drimoto (Latias) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 364/161/306/256/296/257
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
Goroka (Gyarados) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 360/383/194/135/231/227
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying 70
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Torment
Description:
The team is designed to be bulky enough to endure as many hits as possible, without neglecting offense. Also, I have moves from all three categories, so my Pokemon will never be incapable of using their power, and I try to exploit these free turns to the maximum. Snorlax's brave nature makes him attack most of the time (70%) when he's healthy and choose Rest when he’s below half HP. Curse is rarely used, but it tips the scales significantly towards my team every time he uses it. I chose Body Slam over Return because sometimes the AI is stubborn and refuses to use Return, I don't know exactly why. Besides that, paralysis comes in handy in this facility, giving my team even more free turns. Latias is a good teammate thanks to her Levitate ability, and she usually ends up sponging hits while Snorlax attacks. She also uses Recover when she's at low health thanks to her bold nature and abuses Toxic in every battle (the downside is that she keeps trying to poison enemies that are already poisoned, lol). The third member of the team is Gyarados, who resists both fighting attacks and Heracross' Megahorn (biggest threats to Snorlax and Latias), and his Intimidate ability pairs very well with Snorlax. I didn't run Hasty Salamence in third slot because it's less bulky than Gyarados and it's weak to Ice just like Latias. Torment proved to be surprisingly useful against enemies that tend to abuse Double Team (I'm looking at you, Shuckle).
Threats:
OHKO moves in general, opposing Snorlax and bulky Swords Dancers like Scizor and Marowak. Gengar and Misdreavus were difficult because Snorlax simply can't touch them and they both have Thunderbolt to harm my Gyarados, so I relied entirely on Latias.
Loss:
If you read my other posts, you'll notice that Walrein usually comes to ruin my day in some way hahaha. This time, the fattest walrus on earth used attract on my Lax and then Sheer Cold him. An opposing Machamp killed my Gyarados with Counter and Dewgong ended my Latias with Blizzard. It was a very funny streak; I think I am satisfied with this achievement for the moment.
Proof:
Many thanks to all the members of this beautiful community, I wish you the best of success both in your personal lives and in your games. If I don't make any more posts from here on it will be because I have not been able to beat my own records (it's getting difficult lately TBH) or have nothing meaningful to contribute, but I will keep on reading with enthusiasm your streak reports and comments in general about game mechanics, strategies and so on. I love you all, bye.
Battle Palace Doubles. Win streak: 62. Open Level. Retail.
Team:
Gordon (Snorlax) @ Chesto Berry
Level 100 Stats: 501/300/200/140/292/86
Brave Nature
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Drimoto (Latias) @ Leftovers
Level 100 Stats: 364/161/306/256/296/257
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
Goroka (Gyarados) @ Lum Berry
Level 100 Stats: 360/383/194/135/231/227
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying 70
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Torment
Description:
The team is designed to be bulky enough to endure as many hits as possible, without neglecting offense. Also, I have moves from all three categories, so my Pokemon will never be incapable of using their power, and I try to exploit these free turns to the maximum. Snorlax's brave nature makes him attack most of the time (70%) when he's healthy and choose Rest when he’s below half HP. Curse is rarely used, but it tips the scales significantly towards my team every time he uses it. I chose Body Slam over Return because sometimes the AI is stubborn and refuses to use Return, I don't know exactly why. Besides that, paralysis comes in handy in this facility, giving my team even more free turns. Latias is a good teammate thanks to her Levitate ability, and she usually ends up sponging hits while Snorlax attacks. She also uses Recover when she's at low health thanks to her bold nature and abuses Toxic in every battle (the downside is that she keeps trying to poison enemies that are already poisoned, lol). The third member of the team is Gyarados, who resists both fighting attacks and Heracross' Megahorn (biggest threats to Snorlax and Latias), and his Intimidate ability pairs very well with Snorlax. I didn't run Hasty Salamence in third slot because it's less bulky than Gyarados and it's weak to Ice just like Latias. Torment proved to be surprisingly useful against enemies that tend to abuse Double Team (I'm looking at you, Shuckle).
Threats:
OHKO moves in general, opposing Snorlax and bulky Swords Dancers like Scizor and Marowak. Gengar and Misdreavus were difficult because Snorlax simply can't touch them and they both have Thunderbolt to harm my Gyarados, so I relied entirely on Latias.
Loss:
If you read my other posts, you'll notice that Walrein usually comes to ruin my day in some way hahaha. This time, the fattest walrus on earth used attract on my Lax and then Sheer Cold him. An opposing Machamp killed my Gyarados with Counter and Dewgong ended my Latias with Blizzard. It was a very funny streak; I think I am satisfied with this achievement for the moment.
Proof:
Many thanks to all the members of this beautiful community, I wish you the best of success both in your personal lives and in your games. If I don't make any more posts from here on it will be because I have not been able to beat my own records (it's getting difficult lately TBH) or have nothing meaningful to contribute, but I will keep on reading with enthusiasm your streak reports and comments in general about game mechanics, strategies and so on. I love you all, bye.
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Oh, I almost forgot.
Kommo-o, could you please correct a couple of errors I noticed on the Leaderboard related to my streaks? In Battle Palace Singles it's 67 wins (not 61), and in Battle Arena my 114-win team was Snorlax, Latios and Tyranitar, similar to Submenceisop’s team, to whom I owe my respect. Finally, I am waiting cordially for you to update my records in the Battle Dome Doubles, Tower Doubles, Pike and now the Palace Doubles (all of them in Level 100) whenever you can.
Kommo-o, could you please correct a couple of errors I noticed on the Leaderboard related to my streaks? In Battle Palace Singles it's 67 wins (not 61), and in Battle Arena my 114-win team was Snorlax, Latios and Tyranitar, similar to Submenceisop’s team, to whom I owe my respect. Finally, I am waiting cordially for you to update my records in the Battle Dome Doubles, Tower Doubles, Pike and now the Palace Doubles (all of them in Level 100) whenever you can.
I decided to return to Emerald and try to finally get all 7 gold symbols. With the help of this thread I've been progressing quite well, and I've got one streak I figured might be worth sharing. I cleared 231 rooms in the Battle Pike on a retail cartridge level 50.
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Adamant nature
6 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Fly
Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
128 HP / 252 Attack / 128 Speed
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Shadow Ball
Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid nature
252 HP / 220 Def / 4 Sp. Attack / 32 Sp. Defense
Surf
Ice Beam
Calm Mind
Rest
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Adamant nature
6 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Fly
Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
128 HP / 252 Attack / 128 Speed
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Shadow Ball
Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid nature
252 HP / 220 Def / 4 Sp. Attack / 32 Sp. Defense
Surf
Ice Beam
Calm Mind
Rest
I loved having Salamence as a lead in this team because it was fast enough to run away from wild Pokemon and intimidate presents good opportunities for switching to Suicune to set up in tough battles.
A lot of times the hints I got were for "whispering" rooms, where Metagross could destroy the enemy team with Earthquake in double battles. Salamence would either use Rock Slide for decent damage and flinch chance or use Fly. Something I noticed was enemies would often focus their attacks on Salamence, so he could use fly to avoid the damage while Metagross defeated them all and they'd both finish the battle at full health. I wanted Aerial Ace on Salamence but didn't have the TM left in any of my GBA games to trade it over. I have been enjoying using Fly, both for the double battle benefits I mentioned and because it allowed me to totally avoid any damage from Slaking.
The 4 Sp. Attack EVs on Suicune were an accident, and I'm pretty sure they were useless since in level 50 you need 8 EVs for 1 stat gain. I bred Salamence and Metagross for good IVs, both considered "quite impressive" with flawless attack. The Suicune I got in Colosseum a year or two ago and it just happened to have a decent nature and perfect HP IVs.
I think I did have a fair amount of luck making it as far as I did, with many rounds where I barely fought any battles. I'd say the biggest threat to this team is BoltBeam users, and the round I lost ended up having a Starmie and a Gengar on the team. The battle started with Salamence vs Starmie and I expected Ice Beam so I switched to Suicune, but for some reason it chose Thunderbolt. It used Thunderbolt again the next turn and killed me before I could use Calm Mind. Metagross killed Starmie and their second Pokemon, then got killed by Gengar. Salamance took either an Ice Beam or Ice Punch and it was over.
A lot of times the hints I got were for "whispering" rooms, where Metagross could destroy the enemy team with Earthquake in double battles. Salamence would either use Rock Slide for decent damage and flinch chance or use Fly. Something I noticed was enemies would often focus their attacks on Salamence, so he could use fly to avoid the damage while Metagross defeated them all and they'd both finish the battle at full health. I wanted Aerial Ace on Salamence but didn't have the TM left in any of my GBA games to trade it over. I have been enjoying using Fly, both for the double battle benefits I mentioned and because it allowed me to totally avoid any damage from Slaking.
The 4 Sp. Attack EVs on Suicune were an accident, and I'm pretty sure they were useless since in level 50 you need 8 EVs for 1 stat gain. I bred Salamence and Metagross for good IVs, both considered "quite impressive" with flawless attack. The Suicune I got in Colosseum a year or two ago and it just happened to have a decent nature and perfect HP IVs.
I think I did have a fair amount of luck making it as far as I did, with many rounds where I barely fought any battles. I'd say the biggest threat to this team is BoltBeam users, and the round I lost ended up having a Starmie and a Gengar on the team. The battle started with Salamence vs Starmie and I expected Ice Beam so I switched to Suicune, but for some reason it chose Thunderbolt. It used Thunderbolt again the next turn and killed me before I could use Calm Mind. Metagross killed Starmie and their second Pokemon, then got killed by Gengar. Salamance took either an Ice Beam or Ice Punch and it was over.
Quick question here about the battle Pike glitch.
I've used the Pike glitch before to get sketch onto my mons, purely so that I could teach substitute (as I have already used the move tutor), however this was a while ago and I can't quite remember how I did it. I was hoping to once again do this for my Gengar that I've trained ready to take on the battle arena, however I didn't know if this glitch was possible for Pokemon such as Gengar, who can't be poisoned? Am I misremembering the glitch, or does the Pokemon you want to get sketch onto have to be the one that faints due to poison?
If anyone could please clarify this please that would be greatly appreciated.
For the record I am playing on a retail copy of emerald if that makes any difference.
I've used the Pike glitch before to get sketch onto my mons, purely so that I could teach substitute (as I have already used the move tutor), however this was a while ago and I can't quite remember how I did it. I was hoping to once again do this for my Gengar that I've trained ready to take on the battle arena, however I didn't know if this glitch was possible for Pokemon such as Gengar, who can't be poisoned? Am I misremembering the glitch, or does the Pokemon you want to get sketch onto have to be the one that faints due to poison?
If anyone could please clarify this please that would be greatly appreciated.
For the record I am playing on a retail copy of emerald if that makes any difference.