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Nice read, thanks for the feedback. And an unfortunate loss, of course. That Fake Out miss was the biggest reason you lost I think. In general, Zapdos' bulk can be disappointing at times. Maybe a more bulky, less speedy Zapdos could be optimal to survive some STAB Ice Beams?
Vaporeon is always a high priority target for me with Thunder, even if there's a Walrein around. In these scenarios, it's sometimes useful to have Thunderbolt as a filler, so you can use Fake Out and Thunderbolt as an agressive opening instead of Rain Dance, especially when there's threatening opposing Water types.
I'm glad you feel that the team has improved by using Zapdos. That perfectly accurate Thunder is devastating. And Protect plus Explosion in the back is always a good last resort.
In all my theorymoning about Rain in doubles this is always the squad I eventually end up with, and I'm afraid losses like these can't be overcome without making the team worse in general. I think we kind of hit the ceiling with this particular strat.
But of course, I'd still like to experiment a little, e.g. with Omastar, possibly with Flatter, Sweet Scent Hydro Pumps, or in combination with Metal Sound or Fake Tears.
I have more ideas, such as CB Qwilfish (the fastest exploder with decent Attack in rain, also CB Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb really hurt, and it can run Hydro Pump as well) even though it provides little defensive synergy to the rest of the team. Then there's Torrent plus Rain, which can be effective with the likes of Blastoise and possibly Hydro Cannon and Endure + Salac.
Last but not least, Starmie has the Speed stat that makes up for not having Swift Swim, it has more SpA than Kingdra and Ludicolo, and Thunder. An interesting partner is Jolteon, who has Helping Hand and can give Starmie Volt Absorb by letting itself get Skill Swapped. It could even Baton Pass a Petaya Berry to Kingdra, possibly making use of Starmie's Natural Cure in the process.
So many thoughts, tbh I haven't posted a definite Rain team yet because of this. It's the one team that still remains unpublished in my Doubles series. But these threads help a lot!
Yeah, that Fake Out miss was where everything went downhill for me. I knew that the Vaporeon was going to use Acid Armor, so I had to Fake Out the Walrein to avoid it KOing Zapdos with Ice Beam to KO with Thunder next turn knowing that Walrein4 has zero bulk... or that was the idea anyway, before I got screwed up with that crucial miss. But that's the Battle Frontier for you I guess...
I'll see if I can build an optimal EV spread to sponge attacks better (i.e it can sponge Walrein4's Ice Beam with some investment) while retaining its power and the ability to outspeed the most relevant targets. The bulk will also free up the Protect slot to try out Thunderbolt, given that I had to use Protect due to my Naive Zapdos' terrible bulk.
You have a lot of cool ideas about the team comp. Omastar might do some good work with or without support even if it has a worse typing and Speed than Ludi or Kingdra. Qwilfish might work with the options you described, and even Swords Dance is an option, as unreliable and counterproductive as it is. Starmie looks interesting as well. It outspeeds everything bar Jolteon4 IIRC to set up rain and attack, and Skill Swap open up a lot of interesting options with its own ability and even Swift Swim with something like say, Metagross. Helping Hand support from an active partner like Jolteon helps a lot too. They are all options worth trying out.
Yeah, that Fake Out miss was where everything went downhill for me. I knew that the Vaporeon was going to use Acid Armor, so I had to Fake Out the Walrein to avoid it KOing Zapdos with Ice Beam to KO with Thunder next turn knowing that Walrein4 has zero bulk... or that was the idea anyway, before I got screwed up with that crucial miss. But that's the Battle Frontier for you I guess...
I'll see if I can build an optimal EV spread to sponge attacks better (i.e it can sponge Walrein4's Ice Beam with some investment) while retaining its power and the ability to outspeed the most relevant targets. The bulk will also free up the Protect slot to try out Thunderbolt, given that I had to use Protect due to my Naive Zapdos' terrible bulk.
You have a lot of cool ideas about the team comp. Omastar might do some good work with or without support even if it has a worse typing and Speed than Ludi or Kingdra. Qwilfish might work with the options you described, and even Swords Dance is an option, as unreliable and counterproductive as it is. Starmie looks interesting as well. It outspeeds everything bar Jolteon4 IIRC to set up rain and attack, and Skill Swap open up a lot of interesting options with its own ability and even Swift Swim with something like say, Metagross. Helping Hand support from an active partner like Jolteon helps a lot too. They are all options worth trying out.
Having used Manectric in a doubles team recently I can put a good word in for it in place of Zapdos. Has Lightningrod to prevent any opposing Electrics from zapping your water types (though admittedly Kingdra and Ludicolo aren't that troubled by Electric moves as much as Omastar and Zapdos would be) and annihilates bulky waters with Thunder. It's also wickedly fast and its sole weakness is covered by the other team members.
Having used Manectric in a doubles team recently I can put a good word in for it in place of Zapdos. Has Lightningrod to prevent any opposing Electrics from zapping your water types (though admittedly Kingdra and Ludicolo aren't that troubled by Electric moves as much as Omastar and Zapdos would be) and annihilates bulky waters with Thunder. It's also wickedly fast and its sole weakness is covered by the other team members.
You're right about Lightningrod, i.e. Ludicolo and Kingdra don't need Electric moves to be removed. Omastar has such a bad typing and so many weaknesses to the point where one more doesn't seem to matter (it just has to KO stuff before getting hit, and is pretty much obligated to use (Mystic Watered) Hydro Pump). Manectric is probably best if you actually run a more bulky, Electric-weak Pokémon such as Suicune, Milotic or Vaporeon. And of course Gyarados, but that's probably outside the scope of Rain Offense. This might be a more solid, bulky offensive approach to Rain teams, although Manectric is frail as a feather itself. If only it could get Fake Tears or Metal Sound, like some bird we know.
In general, Jolteon is better than Manectric IMO with Helping Hand and better stats. I've tried Jolteon in many ways, but every time I've convinced myself to use it, I changed back to Zapdos again (on Rain offense in particular, of course) mainly because of the following:
Zapdos makes the team not care about EQ, whereas if you use Jolteon/Manectric you always have to prioritize killing Earthquake-wielding opponents. This is usually possible, but it forces certain plays and teams that preserve their 'freedom' always work better. There's a lot of Quick Claw Pokémon with Earthquake, and they all tend to OHKO Jolteon and Manectric.
Jolteon's Thunder fails to OHKO some bulky waters even alongside Surf (e.g. Lapras/Vaporeon/Suicune) and 2HKO a lot of stuff in conjunction with 50%-reduced Rain-powered Surfs, e.g. Regirock, Machamp, bulkier Metagross, full SpD Tyranitar, Scizor and sometimes Heracross to name a few, whereas Zapdos' Thunder usually gets those jobs done without using Magnet. In these situations, the Speed advantage of Jolteon is usually useless anyway since Zapdos outspeeds them as well. With Modest Nature. So Zapdos is a better candidate for Lum Berry. Jolteon/Manectric NEED Magnet to ensure KO's in order to prevent getting KO-ed themselves, and would probably run Timid to fully make use of their ability to outspeed Starmie and Aerodactyl (although the latter is less of a problem because of the Swift Swim sweepers, Surf alone usually doesn't KO unless you use Omastar, but that's where Protect can be useful on Zapdos).
I'm going to repeat the second point in a shorter sentence. When using Thunder, it's all about the absolute NUKE it provides and there's just no other Pokémon than Zapdos that can pull this off.
Did I mention that Zapdos' Thunder is really powerful?
Admittedly, Jolteon and Manectric do have another niche over Zapdos besides Speed and abilities, and that's not being weak to Ice-moves. Luckily for Zapdos, it has to take Ice moves way less often.
Hello every one! It's been a while since I lasted posted, I had some busy months that kept me from pushing my goal to achieve some records in all of the Battle frontier facilities but I am back for good!
I am proudly announcing 280 Battle Pyramid Floors cleared! After some mediocre results in Dome I decided to try Pyramid next since very few people seem to play the facility. It's indeed a rather easy facility and quite boring after some time but still there is room for the current records to be beaten, so Pyramid it was!
Since RNG manipulating in cartridge is a rather daunting task I settled my mind to create a team of just 3 Pokémon for Pyramid. I decided to use submenceisop team with some twists since I like adding a personal touch to the teams and not just copy pasting other people's ideas! So here it is: Team D&D
What's with the name: Well you are in a dungeon, beating monsters and looting items with an iron clad beast, a speedy elemental using dragon and a cleric. That's D&D in console!
Analysis: Latias/Metagross as already known perform an excellent pair cancelling each other weaknesses. I chose Latias over Latios mainly because I haven't been able to RNG a proper Latios yet and because I also wanted to divert a bit from submenceisop list! The given EV's maximise damage and Speed, hitting all the important speed tiers and putting the rest into bulk! Metagross IV's are a bit random in a sense that it was the first shiny flawless Pokémon I created and gave him those IV's in order to be able to take an EQ from enemy Metagross amd survive, I was lazy to run some calcs and create a new one but the extra points in HP definitely help in Pyramid!
Blissey serves as the teams cleric healing them whenever their HP drops to 3/5 or lower and then if possible Soft-boiling on wild Pokémon. I do swap Latias/ Metagross depending on what I face in each room.
So far I haven't faced serious trouble to the point the whole run is on the line, appart maybe from a CM/Rest Suicune that had to be Exploded and a lucky crit EQ Latios where I had to burn a Max Revive.
Some rooms are harder than the others with Normal and PP stall being the most annoying to deal with.
I will post a Bag strategy guide but I want some more runs before that.
That's all for now I will continue pushing the record as far as I can get. I feel that the overall construction of the Battle Pyramid is a fertile ground to hit some big numbers and that's what I am looking at! I will update when I reach some notable benchmarks!
Thank you all!
After the preceding discussions about Rain doubles, I figured I'd post my team as well. It's the same squad, but with different leads and movesets here and there, and some (maybe) unexpected changes that came over a long period of testing and optimizing to make it as reliable as possible. It's certainly way more dependable than the Sunny Day team (which is probably the worst of my posted Double Battle teams so far). Here's the team.
Bulky Rain Offense
Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Waterfall
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
IVs: 30 SpD
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace / Earthquake
- Explosion
General discussion and comparison to other choices with this squad
Of all the 6 possible choices of two Pokémon to lead with, I've found that Kingda + Zapdos together provide the team with the most agressive, flexible opening. Literally all 6 choices can be good (even without leading with a Swift Swimmer), given the appropriate moveset changes. For example, we know Ludicolo's Fake Out can prove useful. The 'classic' Fake Out + Rain Dance double Swift Swim lead always disappoints me however, because in many matchups you need to switch anyway, wasting a Rain Dance turn in the process. Also, Zapdos isn't the best Pokémon to switch in because of weaknesses (especially against Water-types) and only average bulk and typing. Earthquakers aren't a threat anyway, most of the time so it provides little defensive utility.
Instead, Zapdos as a lead has a fast Rain Dance and has the flexibility of using Thunderbolt outright, e.g. against Starmie, Charizard, Dodrio or Golduck (the latter is nice to one-shot because of Cloud Nine) while Kingdra uses Rain Dance instead. Against Fake Out users (e.g. Hariyama) I sometimes click Rain Dance on both Kingdra and Zapdos, so I have Rain up no matter which Pokémon gets flinched. Kingdra is better here than Ludicolo IMO despite Fake Out, because Ludicolo would need Rain Dance as well in the lead spot to be safe, and that gives it a moveslot syndrome. Also, its ability to Leech Seed is often necessary against opponents I'm stuck on, which can be done later as well. In fact, I've chosen to ditch Fake Out all in all, because I find it wastes important Rain turns and Ludicolo has better things to do.
After fiddling around with the frustratingly inaccurate Hydro Pump, I decided to try Waterfall despite its underwhelming power. But I came to the conclusion that it's actually a very dependable, and still very strong move, whereas Hydro Pump's power is often not even needed. It OHKOs Fire-types, Aerodactyl, Armaldo and the like and provides me with a very flexible, safe choice of a Water move. Essentially, it's a 100% accurate (non-Rain boosted) equivalent of Hydro Pump in Rain, which is usually more than enough if you pick your moves wisely.
Ludicolo is the ideal glue, because it can either aid the sweep by revenge killing something after Kingdra or Zapdos faints, and in the longer run it can Seed + Leftovers + Protect stall, possibly protecting itself against Metagross' Explosion in the process.
Speaking of Metagross, it's the ideal bulky Steel attacker, because in Rain it suddenly shrugs off Fire-type moves (if my Waters didn't KO already). It pivots into Zapdos' place in case I'm worried about Ice-type moves (e.g. against Regice) or into Kingdra's place sometimes against Dragon Claws. I chose to run a Choice Band, because most of the time I just want to remove a key threat, such as Regice, Blissey or Lati@s. This Metagross outspeeds Lati@s and OHKOs more often that not with Shadow Ball (guaranteed after they get hit by Surf). OHKOing Starmie can also be nice, in case Zapdos gets haxed by an Ice Beam crit or freeze before using Thunderbolt/Thunder. Shadow Ball's 20% SpD drop can come in handy. HP[Steel] has about 80% chance to OHKO Regice (except Regice4, which is passive anyway), again the OHKO is guaranteed alongside Surf. Like with Waterfall over Hydro Pump, nobody really likes the idea of using HP[Steel] over Meteor Mash, including me, but if you actually try it you'll find that it's a godsend compared to missing MM's that sometimes don't need the added power anyway. In Rain, it's all about dishing out the RIGHT amounts of damage and finishing off with Surf, denting the other Pokémon so it can be one-shot next turn as well.
Finally, Aerial Ace is a nice move against Double Teaming Grass-types sometimes, and works as a good finisher in general, bypassing Brightpowder as well. Earthquake has other uses, e.g. when Metagross is next to Zapdos, but usually it's not necessary at all. Metagross is here to take hits, and deal exact amounts of damage it needs to. Sometimes it would be nice to have Earthquake against Raikou or Muk in particular. Very often, Metagross switches in and back out after its first move.
Set details
Because of Swift Swim, Kingdra can invest 256 EVs in bulk. This is best accomplished by putting the into HP for general purposes, but I shifted it a little bit to survive Latios' Dragon Claw. The only non-crit move I don't survive guaranteed is Granbull's Mega Kick (still only 43.8% chance to OHKO, without even factoring in its accuracy).
Zapdos hits 'only' 300 Speed instead of the 320 it really wants, because that lets it survive Brightpowder Walrein's Ice Beam guaranteed, and also prevents it from being 2HKOed by most Thunderbolts. These threats are the most important to cover, from my experience at least. 32 HP and 76 SpD do exactly this while maximing HP for physical bulk.
Ludicolo hits a Leftovers number, doesn't need one extra because it doesn't use Sub anyway (Sub is not a bad idea, especially against bulky Thunder Wavers, but Protect is handy when Rain has stopped, because Metagross will be faster in that scenario). It has some physical bulk to survive Snorlax assaults mainly, and it has no Special weaknesses anyway.
Lastly, Metagross outspeeds Lati twins (who only sit at 256 Speed), but just as importantly some Dragonite, an all-out special sweeper Gardevoir and Blaziken in the process and doesn't really mind the Attack drop compared to Adamant since its teammates can finish many of its KOs anyway before my opponent gets to move. I'd love to invest more in bulk, but that would be for another team.
Sample Streak
See
Other Rain attempts Tested and viable alternatives on this team:
Lanturn over Metagross is a more reliable switch into and Electric-types and Ice Beams and it has natural synergy with Rain. Lanturn doesn't punch holes like Metagross though, and leaves the team reliant on Leech Seed to beat heavy special walls, such as (Amnesia) Regice and Calm Mind Blissey.
Brick Break over AA or EQ on Metagross destroys Screens, OHKOs Tyranitar, and most importantly deals over 55% damage to the terrible Walrein, should Zapdos' Thunderbolt miss.
Crazy offense:
Rain Dance Blastoise + Protect Qwilfish, Endure + Self-destruct on turn 2, then follow up with Fake Out Ludicolo while Blastoise maims away using STAB * 2.25 Hydro Cannon or a filler like Flail, Surf or Ice Beam.
Fake Out + Rain Dance, then Sweet Scent + Hydro Pumps from stuff like Omastar and Gorebyss and (CB) Meteor Mashes. SURSKIT besides Ludicolo is another Swift Swim Sweet Scenter that draws in moves from opponents because it's so frail.
Clefable using Rain Dance and Follow Me while Volbeat or Smeargle passes Speed and Tail Glow to a CLAMPERL, OHKOing everything in sight with Helping Hand Surf after
Jolteon + Skill Swap Starmie, Rain Dance when they have time
Hello everyone. I decided to take a small break from my Pyramid run since it has become a rather mundane task to try going as far as it gets. I wanted to have some action asap so I did try the Battle Factory Doubles (Open Level). I manage to hit 59 Battles Won. Here is a quick synopsis of the rounds:
Round 1: Salamence/Hypno/Aggron
I did open with Sala/Hypno. Intimidate is a very nice ability to have and Hypno had elemental punches for coverage. Aggron was my safe switch to Ice/Dragon attacks that aimed Salamence. It also packed EQ that had great synergy with Salamence's flying type.
Round 2: Salamence/Aggron/Scizor
Not the ideal start since the Fire weakness is apparent and Waters could give me lots of trouble here. I did switch Aggron with Swampert to patch some of the issues. As you hear me saying a lot of the time, Salamence lead is really solid during the early rounds! Scizor had SD and could set up to deal with bulky waters.
Round 3: Blastoise/Flareon/Umbreon
I had some really awful choices here but somehow for my surprise this team managed to pull it off and win without even switching anything. I led with Blastoise and Flareon for the obvious synergy between the two and had Umbreon as a bulky switch in. It had a pretty nasty set of Shadow ball/Swagger/Psych Up/ Attract that proved immensely helpful for disrupting the enemy and setting up while the were confused!
Round 4: Hariyama/Jynx/Armaldo
I led with Hariyama and Jynx. Hariyama had Fake Out and Jynx Lovely Kiss along with good speed which meant that for the most part I could get one of their Pokemon's out of commission Turn 1 and then double on the second. I swapped Armaldo for Salamence because... Salamence on the early rounds is a monster.
Round 5: Kanghaskan/Gengar/Kingdra
Clean round! Kangha/Gengar lead was explosive scoring KO's all around the place with their amazing speed and coverage. I did target the most dangerous threats with both of them and had no problem winning. Kingdra rearely saw battle, was mainly there as a bulky switch in.
Round 6: Salamence/Hariyama/Starmie
Once again I lead with Salamence/Hariyama. Starmie had a mono attacking set with Psyhic along with Thunderwave/Confuse Ray and Recover. I chose it since it could come in against Ice/Rock/Psyhic and Poison attacks and provide some nice speed control along with Confuse Ray.
Round 7: Aerodactyl/Latias/Blissey
Clean round aswell. I did swapped Latias for a Latios on Turn 1 since my Latias had a weird physical attacking set with EQ/SB/Aerial Ace plus something else which I don't remember. After that Aerodactyl and Latios swept the round!
Round 8: Metagross/Victreebel/Blastoise
Ok this was a hard one. My starting Pokemon weren't ideal. I had some rough time choosing what I wanted to do but in the end I decided to lead with Metagross and Victreebel. The idea was that even though the lead was super weak vs Fire I could use Victreebel's great speed and paralyze an enemy with Stun spore and switch metagross to blastoise and tank a hit. Victreebel also helped me deal with Water type Pokemon which Metagross coudn't easily deal with since it only had MM and Aerial Ace. I managed to swap Blastoise for a CM Suicune around Turn 2 and then I found a Latios which I used instead of Victreebel.
Round 9: Salamence/Tauros/Entei
This is where tragedy struck. I replaced Entei with a Heracross since Rock Types could give me troubles and Waters with Ice type moves could also be terrifying. I lost to a team that lead with Entei/Vaporeon. I was pretty afraid of Vaporeon KOing my Salamence with IB so I doubled up on it with Tauros and Salamence but survived with a sliver of HP and then KOed my Salamence. I knocked it out next turn but Entei KOed my Heracross and his last Pokemon was Snorlax.
I'm pretty happy with how the run went considering I was actually playing for fun and didn't aimed for anything specific. Might focus a bit more on doubles once done with Pyramid. That's all for now!
Hey guys, glad to see that the thread is still pretty active! I enjoy reading all the new ideas :) I would love to contribute as well, but at the moment I lack the motivation to take the same facilities on again, so I came up with the following idea:
Would you guys be interested in doing a monthly (or maybe bi-weekly) frontier challenge format, where every month someone comes up with a frontier related team-building challenge (can be anything from "use Exploud in any facility" to "build an amorphous mono egg group team for palace")? We then all have time to come up with ideas and present our teams. Then we take a vote and the winner gets to choose the next challenge.
Hey guys, glad to see that the thread is still pretty active! I enjoy reading all the new ideas :) I would love to contribute as well, but at the moment I lack the motivation to take the same facilities on again, so I came up with the following idea:
Would you guys be interested in doing a monthly (or maybe bi-weekly) frontier challenge format, where every month someone comes up with a frontier related team-building challenge (can be anything from "use Exploud in any facility" to "build an amorphous mono egg group team for palace")? We then all have time to come up with ideas and present our teams. Then we take a vote and the winner gets to choose the next challenge.
Hey guys, glad to see that the thread is still pretty active! I enjoy reading all the new ideas :) I would love to contribute as well, but at the moment I lack the motivation to take the same facilities on again, so I came up with the following idea:
Would you guys be interested in doing a monthly (or maybe bi-weekly) frontier challenge format, where every month someone comes up with a frontier related team-building challenge (can be anything from "use Exploud in any facility" to "build an amorphous mono egg group team for palace")? We then all have time to come up with ideas and present our teams. Then we take a vote and the winner gets to choose the next challenge.
Pokemon specific runs like use Shedinja in a team and reach as far as it gets's sounds fun indeed as well as trying to beat facilities with Emerald/FR/LG native only Pokemons.
Hey guys, glad to see that the thread is still pretty active! I enjoy reading all the new ideas :) I would love to contribute as well, but at the moment I lack the motivation to take the same facilities on again, so I came up with the following idea:
Would you guys be interested in doing a monthly (or maybe bi-weekly) frontier challenge format, where every month someone comes up with a frontier related team-building challenge (can be anything from "use Exploud in any facility" to "build an amorphous mono egg group team for palace")? We then all have time to come up with ideas and present our teams. Then we take a vote and the winner gets to choose the next challenge.
Pokemon specific runs like use Shedinja in a team and reach as far as it gets's sounds fun indeed as well as trying to beat facilities with Emerald/FR/LG native only Pokemons.
My actual challenge was to only use Pokemon obtainable on Emerald! Right now working on something else that's going to deviate from that but I'm always open for suggestions on what I can ride for Tower!
My actual challenge was to only use Pokemon obtainable on Emerald! Right now working on something else that's going to deviate from that but I'm always open for suggestions on what I can ride for Tower!
Kommo-o
Do you have a Modest Zapdos with hp ice? Got no interest in going through the RNG in Collo again. I might be down to try some interesting combinations if anyone has good ideas. The BF challenge sounds interesting too. I'll be down if I can make time.
I don't have the time for a writeup you're used to right now, but here's a sneak peak of the Plusle and Minun Offense I've been working on lately.
Basically I've tried using Rain and Skill Swap, but this current team functions the best from what I've tried until now, although I'd like to fit in Flygon somewhere and still have Intimidate.
Enjoy! I have to admit this particular run was a little bit messy with all the critical hits I got, but you see how hard they hit together and still support the team when one of them falls. I think that's the way they should be used, if at all ;)
Kommo-o
Do you have a Modest Zapdos with hp ice? Got no interest in going through the RNG in Collo again. I might be down to try some interesting combinations if anyone has good ideas. The BF challenge sounds interesting too. I'll be down if I can make time.
Certainly considered and tried it, but usually it's better to attack with both as Plusle itself has better SpA anyway. It would be nice to use alongside Latios, but then Latios outspeeds Plusle which defeats the purpose unless it's Blissey or Snorlax.
Using HH at least gives me a guaranteed aid in sweeping, whatever my opponent kills first. But I'll definitely look into it again.
Hey guys, glad to see that the thread is still pretty active! I enjoy reading all the new ideas :) I would love to contribute as well, but at the moment I lack the motivation to take the same facilities on again, so I came up with the following idea:
Would you guys be interested in doing a monthly (or maybe bi-weekly) frontier challenge format, where every month someone comes up with a frontier related team-building challenge (can be anything from "use Exploud in any facility" to "build an amorphous mono egg group team for palace")? We then all have time to come up with ideas and present our teams. Then we take a vote and the winner gets to choose the next challenge.
Since enough people seem to interested, let's start with the first challenge!
Build a team for the Battle Arena, consisting only of Pokemon that are listed in the NU-Tier on Smogon in Gen III (LC and NFE are allowed as well).
I'd say we start with a deadline of two weeks (which would be the 9th of December), but if we realize that more (or less) time is needed, we can of course readjust it. The next challenge will be posted by the winner of this one (but I'm not sure how to decide the winner yet, some ideas include:
We form an "expert" jury
Only participants in the challenge get to vote
Everyone who has posted in this thread gets to vote
Since enough people seem to interested, let's start with the first challenge!
Build a team for the Battle Arena, consisting only of Pokemon that are listed in the NU-Tier on Smogon in Gen III (LC and NFE are allowed as well).
I'd say we start with a deadline of two weeks (which would be the 9th of December), but if we realize that more (or less) time is needed, we can of course readjust it. The next challenge will be posted by the winner of this one (but I'm not sure how to decide the winner yet, some ideas include:
We form an "expert" jury
Only participants in the challenge get to vote
Everyone who has posted in this thread gets to vote
Hello everyone! I decided to take up the challenge and try to create a team consisting of NU Pokemon that can potentially manage to hit some records in the Battle Arena as proposed in the challenge by wtset . The team I assembled is a product of theory-craft and theory-craft alone since time is an issue. I might try run some playtesting rounds with sub-optimal IV's just for the sake of it but nothing too serious. Of course the list has several flaws and in order to be able to progress between the rounds, even more if one wants to achieve some records, there are several things that have to go your way! If not you are screwed! And I mean the whole team will collapse unless everything goes your way. I won't go into much detail, after all I have no play test with the team but I think it would be obvious from my Pokemon selection and their roles what can spell your doom.
P.S.: Don't read if you are still team building for the challenge and want to be as original as possible!
So here it goes:
Wailord @ Choice Band
Nature: Brave
Ability: Water Veil
EV's: 252 HP/ 124 Atk. / 132 Sp.Def.
-Self-Destruct
-Earthquake
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power Ghost
After experimenting a bit with the tier's availiable Pokemon I decided that the overall power level was just too low and the Pokemon not strong enough to compete with the inevitable ''broken'' Pokemon that Battle Frontier is throwing at you. If I wanted to have a shot at achieving some records it would be threw guile and not sheer power! With this in mind I tried to make (always in theory) some Shedinja (trick-into setting up a Shedinja) teams but I wasn't happy with them since they seemed to gimmicky to work. Then I remembered a post by dgice that play-tested some unorthodox Battle Arena strategies and of all of them the Fake Out/Protect/Dodge combo seemed the most promising. I decided I wanted to use a Pokemon with all those moves and Sableye was my first candidate. The problem is that it was way to slow to successfully perform the combo so after some research I found out that Meowth of all things is the fastest NU (NFE) Pokemon that has access to all those three moves! With 3 slots taken I had to decide about the last move. I obviously needed something that could help me in case I was facing a Ground Immune Pokemon and I chose Shadow Ball since it can hit for SE damage Ghost type Pokemon that are immune to Fake Out. It also KO's Shedinja and can help you against Gengar that is immune to both Fake Out and Dig.
With my win condition ready (LOL) i needed to make sure I could effectively trade 1-1. Haunter was an easy choice. It had Destiny Bond along with stellar speed to go along. There were some Pokemon that outsped it but that can easily be solved with the Endure/Salac combo. After that you can outspeed pretty much the entire metagame. Dragon Dance users need to be carefully dealt with since they can potentially set up first turn while you try yo DB them and then be faster than you. That's the reason I give it Taunt or Haze. Confure Ray seems an overall nice attack to have if something goes wrong. You could also give it some attacking moves just in case you need to finish a weakened foe but I doubt it will have the power to do so.
Wailord was the last member and the one I am the most proud to have included! I did a couple of calculations here and oh boy he is tanky! He can take a TBolt from Zapdos and survive! Choice Band+ Self destruct is nasty and can guarantee you the KO on pretty much everything that doesn't resist it. The rest of the moves are just fillers in case you are up against something that you can't go boom. EQ for steels/Hydro Pump for Rocks and Hidden Power Ghost well... for Ghosts. Apart from a Thunder Zapdos I haven't been able to find anything that can cleanly 1-hit KO this bad boy!
As I stated before you must have luck on your side in order to win. Critical hits/ 1-hit-KO moves/ and a couple of misfortunes will quickly dispatch the team. But I strongly believe it has everything needed to progress threw the Battle Arena and produce some solid results. I highly doubt that a 'normal' team with what little is availiable can actually hope to best Battle Arena. You have to play dirty and this is what the team is designed to do!
That;s all for now I am really waiting to see what you guys will come up with!
Hello everyone! It's been lot of time!
I've always watched the thread as a big fan, and in the last days I've started to play Tower again after a long hiatus.
I'm glad that at least two people (three with myself included) are taking the challenge, and I hope there are going to be even more! Very excited to see what you all come up with.
I've now decided on this definitive rule set for the first challenge:
All attempts have to be submitted until the 9th December, 10:25 PM GMT (exactly two weeks after I posted the challenge).
It is allowed to post a submission earlier than the 9th December, but it is encouraged to wait until then if possible.
After that, there is a 2-day voting process, with the voting deadline being the 11th December, 10:25 GMT, so that the people who want to vote have enough time to test the different teams.
Participants in the challenge can give 3 points to the submission they consider the best, and 1 point to the submission they consider the second-best, but they cannot give any points to themselves. If a participant decides to not cast a vote, all other participants will automatically get 3 points from him (otherwise not voting will give you an unfair advantage).
Everyone who posted a streak in this thread (for any facility) or participated in a previous challenge (there are none yet) can give 1 point to the submission they consider the best.
Votes will be cast as posts in this thread, if possible with a short (or long) explanation on the decision.
When casting a vote, the main things that should be considered are performance and style/creativity of the submitted team, with a slightly higher priority given to performance. Of course, performance does not equal "Who achieved the highest streak?", since that is highly dependent on how much time was spent trying and favors emulator players.
Instead, the voters are encouraged to play-test the submitted teams for themselves to assess their performance. This also makes it a good idea for the participants to include a guide on how to play their team, especially for more unorthodox strategies.
Despite streak numbers not being the main focus, it is not forbidden to include them in the submission.
If anything should be unclear, just tell me. The rules are of course open to change for the next challenge (and also for this one if anybody notices some glaring flaw).
I've never lost so many times before 28 in the Arena. Had some tough luck so far with my team, as the best I've gotten so far is 31, but I'll edit this post if I manage to get higher than this.
Glalie lead, with salac berry as the hold item. It's one of the faster NU mons and it has a very strong explosion and stab ice beam, which makes it a decent lead. Taunt helps versus fatter teams that try to double team spam.
Flareon is one of the few fire types in this tier and easily beats most steel types that Glalie loses to. It's still frail and slow as balls, but it hits pretty hard. Gave it quick claw for the potential 20% luck.
Huntail is one of the few swift swimmers in this tier. Going after Flareon is ideal, as Flareon loses to rock and ground types, which Huntail has the advantage against. Huntail hits as hard as kingdra, based on my experience so far and it's pretty good. Wish it was a bit faster, but it's serviceable.
I had dive on the last slot, but I ran into a vaporeon and instantly lost lol. Petaya berry for a potential 50% special attack raise makes this high risk/high reward, but I also considered lum berry and mystic water.
Edit: Change the order to Flareon/Torkoal, Glalie, Huntail for the Greta round. Glalie is far superior as the lead in most situations, but the Greta battle is difficult without the order change. Lum Berry is superior to petaya for Huntail. Too much status ruining the sweep. Quick attack needed for Flareon in case Greta's Heracross uses endure and wrecks the team with a full power reversal, which just happened.
Edit: Torkoal is a superior fire type to Flareon in the second slot. Much tankier, provides explosion support and yawn support. Enough special attack to ohko Heracross, yawn to help Huntail to set up, explosion for the nuke.
176+ SpA Torkoal Overheat vs. 106 HP / 100 SpD Heracross: 330-390 (100.9 - 119.2%) https://pokepast.es/06f4504640ad0cb5
Got to 32 with Torkoal instead of Flareon lol. It's much more consistent against Greta. 1-0.
8 runs, 3 made it past her, 2 losses to her, 3 losses before 28. Overall.
