Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

Hi everybody! I want to update my current streak, in which a switched from GINGER to IRIDESCENCE (3.0) after battle 651.

I've reached today 700 Wins!


Last improvement I did was on Bliss' moveset: I've replaced T-Wave with Growl, a move already used on Bliss by Kommo-o, that I've never loved too much.
Despite this, its synergy with team's strategy is astonishing:
  • has 64 PPs (helping a lot in PP staling process and letting me save Soft-Boiled / Protect / Substitute PPs);
  • reduces Struggle damage (and obviously also recoil, letting more turns for Latios to set-up on baits);
  • stops Curse users;
  • allows Blissey to handle Tormented Mixed Attackers alone;
  • eases a lot the matchup vs. Breloom (if WW misses), which probably is the only dangerous foe this team can face (if helped by hax).
 
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Adedede Good job making it this far.
I actually just started using your IRIDESCENCE 3.0 because I have been interested in this team for quite a time now. I find the gimmick of this team relatively fun to use, eventhough some PP stalling situations can get extremely tedious. How exactly do you react if your opponents last pokemon is a setup sweeper and Latios isn't behind a sub? My entire Team just got roasted by a Scizor (2).
 
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Maizup said:
I actually just started using your IRIDESCENCE 3.0 because I have been interested in this team for quite a time now. I find the gimmick of this team relatively fun to use, eventhough some PP stalling situations can get extremely tedious. How exactly do you react if your opponents last pokemon is a setup sweeper and Latios isn't behind a sub? My entire Team just got roasted by a Scizor (2).
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Thanks for the kind words.
About your question, the gameplan must be to keep Latios behind a Sub during the sweep.
If the 2nd foe is a Quick Claw user (not in your case, since Scizor2 has QC in that A.I.'s team) or carries a Priority Move, best answer to stuff like Zor2 in the last slot is Skarmory, which is the reason why I absolutely need to keep him alive (also because if I face a Metagross during the sweep and after a +6 Dragon Claw it just uses MM on turn 1 and doesn't reveal its Item - like Leftovers or Shell Bell-, I must fear a QC MM and immediately switch into Skarm).

You pretty answered to the problem by yourself: Latios has to be behind a Sub before sweeping, even if it costs a lot of turns more to set-up (maybe bringing a set-up bait to Struggle and reducing its Atk with Growl before).
If that wasn't possible in your specific situation, Skarmory could have handled Scizor2 switching in immediately and using Torment, since Silver Wind has just 5 PPs and it's highly resisted, and then it had just one attacking move (that means that Skarmory with Protect and Bliss with Sub/Protect/Growl can outspeed it - yeah, with QC permission - and they can definitely handle it).
This team works great if its core is kept in good health through the match (right now I've finished like 2 matches out of 70 without all of my Mons alive).
 
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Adedede I see, thanks a lot for the advice.
I think I need to get used to the Torment+Protect strategy and finding the right setup fodder for Latios which I currently struggle with. I can't remember the full team of the opponent I lost to, I know he had Scyther (2) and Scizor (2) and I panicked because of their Sword Dances and let my Latios out of his Sub which made me ultimately lose the battle. Also, does Growl on Blissey generally achieve more than Hail did?
 
Maizup said:
I think I need to get used to the Torment+Protect strategy and finding the right setup fodder for Latios which I currently struggle with. I can't remember the full team of the opponent I lost to, I know he had Scyther (2) and Scizor (2) and I panicked because of their Sword Dances and let my Latios out of his Sub which made me ultimately lose the battle. Also, does Growl on Blissey generally achieve more than Hail did?
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Teams with multiple set-up sweepers are a bit more threathening, but with some practice they're handleable by the defensive backbone.
I've never used Hail once in my previous run in my memory (if not for wasting turns of PP stall), but sadly with Latias it was necessary, otherwise the aformentioned Registeel 4/5 in the last slot could have caused an endless game with just a bit of hax. As shown before, Timid Latios achieves the 3HKO 99,5% of the times vs. DT Registeel - something that Latias cannot afford -, easing the matchup.
Moreover, I've seen that it's detrimental to sacrifice overall utility (Growl is helping me a lot in last matches, f.e. I've a Replay of Blissey handling alone a Tormented Hera3 thanks to Growl and Protect) just because of a single threat in a specific foe's slot that now needs a lot of hax to overcome me.

I'm actually really pleased that someone is trying what I've built, and that's the main reason of my full-battles videos.
Probably I will also make "commented" runs one day, I think it could be something interesting to share
 
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Adedede Interesting, Hail has saved me quite some time now against some DT Blisseys, but I may give Growl a shot too. I would defenitely appreciate it if you're planning on doing commented runs, probably makes it easier to understand the strategy behind a team and how to properly use it. I find pretty much all of your teams well thought out and interesting, and I will probably give them all a shot someday as long as the Pokemon aren't a trip to hell to RNG abuse lol.
 
Sigh. No sooner than I said "my Multi streak is at 161 and still ongoing!" did I then break it, at a nice round 165 battles. Once again using Tauros and Latios as detailed in my original post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ssion-and-records.3648697/page-4#post-8232749.

This was a pretty good run. I had a lot of good luck with partners, including a Dragon Tamer who used Gyarados 4 (Return, Earthquake, Dragon Dance, Rest) and Charizard 4 (Overheat, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide), and a Cooltrainer who led with Latias 5 (Dragon Claw, Thunder Wave, Calm Mind, Recover) and a second I've forgotten (Dragonite, I think). I also had partners who used Zapdos, Skarmory, and Crobat much earlier on. Whenever I couldn't find a partner with a party who matched mine I went with my preset partner Orienne, whose team is also detailed in my initial post.

My loss was pretty unavoidable, so I'm not too bummed about it. I'd partnered with Cooltrainer Carrie who was using Dragonite 6 (Dragon Claw, Thunderbolt, Surf, Flamethrower) and Gengar 8 (Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Punch, Destiny Bond). Not a totally terrible combo, but I've learned from experience you want something bulkier for your backup slot.

The 166th battle opened with us against Regirock and Regice - Tauros took a chunk out of Regice with Double-Edge and Dragonite used Dragon Claw on Regirock, who Exploded and took all four of us down. So then it was Latios and Gengar against Registeel and Mr. Mime. Mr. Mime dispatched Gengar in two hits (the AI, of course, did not use Destiny Bond; not that it would have changed things if it had), and Registeel Cursed up and made short work of Latios with Metal Claw.

Not sure which facility I'm going to try next (I'm stuck with Emerald for the moment due to self-isolation). Enjoying reading everyone's team ideas, though! Unfortunately not going to be able to give Tower Singles a proper shot for a long while yet, but I hope to do so and get a good streak eventually.



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Hello everyone, just doing a small update on things. Things have gotten super hectic now that our country is not doing so well against the pandemic. But either way, I've found myself being able to procrastinate between work to be able to play some Gen 3. Neverless, Der Deutsche Wissenschaft has some mayor updates:

  • I replaced Mud-Slap with Flash: This is one of the biggest changes on the team and while Mud Slap has served me well on so many things, the ability to being able to cripple threats like Articuno, Charizard, Gengar and Flygon has been able to make up for Mud Slap's consistent accuracy drops and damage output. Mud Slap pretty much makes Manectric irrelevant and offsets Roar, however, being able to cripple the after-mentioned mon is huge for Registeel and Gyarados. In the past, I had to rely on switching back and forth letting either Gyarados build up the damage, take a risk and use an Amnesia against mons like Gengar putting Registeel at risk of being crippled by a burn or against Flygon where I either had to take the risk of setting up with DD and hope for not getting critted. Flash has a horrible 70% accuracy and there's nothing to fix that. However, Latias' excellent bulk combined with Recover really makes up for it. Once Flash starts to connect, it makes things so much easier for Latias to the point where I even feel safer to set-up with Gyarados knowing that I can confidently get to +6 whereas it would have been impossible with Mud Slap. I discarded Flash initially, but so far, I feel very comfortable and happy with the results. Of course, without Mud Slap, Manectric becomes a more annoying threat. Since Latias has no damaging moves, I can't set up fully on it knowing that it will throw my hard work off with a single Roar.
  • Registeel EVs have been updated to improve the match-up vs Regirock 3 and similar sets: While Regirock has not really been a pest in the past, I've noticed that the Speed ties put me on situations where I do really need to be "faster" in order to be guaranteed to set the Sub in case I still have not been set-up with Registeel previously. Hence why the EV spread has been updated to: 240 HP / 188 Atk / 6 Def / 64 SpD / 12 Spe. It still gives me a decent HP number while being able to guarantee I will be faster than -6 Regirock assuming we both are to +6. Sadly, due to the imperfect SpD IV, this forces 4 EVs to go to waste but I think it is marginally better. (Thanks SadisticMystic!)
  • Win streak still on-going: Played a little bit more during my breaks at work and the win streak is extended to 1204 wins. I can't guarantee I will consistently hit more, but whenever I have the chance, I might play for a few rounds.
You can find an updated Pokepaste here and it's safe to say that the experimentation stage is over and will move forward with these changes. Since a few things change, when I have the time, I will update the threat-list and start a strategy guide soon enough.

I also attach another picture with the current win streak:

1204 DDW.png
 
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Kommo-o said:
  • Registeel EVs have been updated to improve the match-up vs Regirock 3 and similar sets: While Regirock has not really been a pest in the past, I've noticed that the Speed ties put me on situations where I do really need to be "faster" in order to be guaranteed to set the Sub in case I still have not been set-up with Registeel previously. Hence why the EV spread has been updated to: 240 HP / 188 Atk / 12 Def / 64 SpD / 6 Spe. It still gives me a decent HP number while being able to guarantee I will be faster than -6 Regirock assuming we both are to +6. Sadly, due to the imperfect SpD IV, this forces 4 EVs to go to waste but I think it is marginally better.
Click to expand...
70 vs. 71 is still a speed tie with both at -6. You would need to go to 12 speed in order to get to 72 and outspeed them 18-17 after a Curse war.
 
Quickly, I just wanted to report my last battle I had in Battle Arena. I lead with CBmetagross which was KO'd by Overheat Arcanine. Snorlax evened things out and the opponents' second pokemon was dealth with.

My Leftovers' Snorlax vs last poke' Swampert, attacks with Body Slam deflected by Protect. I hit my second Body Slam after Counter (turn 2) failed to strike back because Swampert first used Protect turn one and failed to successfully use it a second time. Swampert sits around 80-85% thanks to Leftovers and I fail to get paralysis with Snorlax. (I should've tied this decision, not straight up lost because Swampert didn't even use Earthquake turn 3 because AI saw Counter turn 2.

Swampert: 80-90%
Salamence: 100%

Anyway... after this I was like "I have to get lucky here". In comes my last Pokemon, DDMence, with Double-edge, Rock Slide, Body Slam and Dragon Dance. I get paralysis turn 1 and Swampert fails to strike. Lucky start, I proceed to hit with Rock Slide and flinch turn 2. This left Swampert around 40% and I had the KO with Double-edge. My thoughts and actions fell from my control at this point and thanks to muscle memory and quick, gutsy instincts I clicked the wrong move and choose Body Slam instead of Double Edge... Swampert failed to attack for a third time (two para, one flinch). That is two turns of paralysis and 1 flinch, not to mention the fact that had I actually concentrated and wasn't so careless in my move selection, I would have won hands down without going to decision.

But the judges decision was a tie. I attacked 3 turns and Swampert's AI must've ordered 3 attacks each turn that it failed to hit because we tied on "Mind", I lose "Skill" despite my crafty, cheap strategy to win and I win "Body" because my Salamence went ountouched while Swampert luckily escaped certain defeat. I thought they at least had to land hits but obviously their calls on Mind/Skill must simply come down to which move you choose. Body is who dealt the most damage.

I lose because a tie is not good enough... bad decisions and missclicks made me rage so hard and now I am waiting to challenge Greta for that Gold symbol once again. :(
 
Hi everyone! I've finally reached 1001 Wins with IRIDESCENCE 3.0 at Battle Tower Singles Lv.50!!!
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I wanted to do something different for this goal, and I've made a live-commented streak of 7 fights (from 995 to 1001) to better explain gameplan and overall strategies (and I want to sorry in advance for my english, hope it's at least understandable).




Pokepaste version: https://pokepast.es/dd440666810a9ed9

I'm working on something quite demanding: writing down a list of ALL of Lv.50 Tower's enemies, explaining in a detailed way what is my gameplan vs. every Pokemon first, and then vs. every set once one or more moves are revealed.
It will take a lot of time but I'm locked at home, so that's not an issue at all.
I also think it'll be really helpful for who wants to approach to stalling strategies or specifically to my team.


EDIT: If something from the video isn't totally clear or someone has doubts, don't worry to ask of course!


Checking the video, I think I lightly misplayed here and there because my focus was completely on speaking/recording right in dead stalling situations (nothing drastic nor even remotely game-changing , but still misplays at my eyes - f.e. not always counting PPs while stalling pretty harmless foes-), so I don't think I'll do it commenting in english again soon I could simply pay attention staying focused on game while commenting it tbh
 
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Quick update: I've passed my previous personal record and I'm now sitting at 1120 Wins.
I've recorded a video for the occasion with first Boss Fight after 1,1K!


1120.png

Since set-up sweepers are threathening for almost every stall team, and Anabel has 3 of them, I think that it may be interesting to explain also there my gameplan vs. her.
This is also and edit from the video, where I showed a calc considering a Neutral SpA Nature Raikou and not a Positive one.
To sum up, this is the calc: 0+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Skarmory: 153-180 (88.9 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

I've lately changed my gameplan vs. Anabel. I immediately switched into Latios before, but in the last fights I prefer to keep Skarmory in just for one reason: if Raikou uses Calm Mind on Latios switch in, it can break Latios Sub with one hit.
Usually it doesn't keep spamming Thunderbolt at +1 SpA and that's also not happened in dozens of fight before, giving me time to Calm Mind and Recover, but that's a bit too risky imo, especially vs. a recurrent opponent.
So I've studied a better gameplan; staying in with Skarm on turn 1 and selecting Torment, I can face then 3 scenarios:
  1. Raikou uses Thunderbolt, Skarmory lives and uses Torment: a Tormented Raikou is a set-up bait 100% of times against Latios, I can Rest on turn 2 with Skarmory and then stall it out. I can even go Blissey to save Latios PPs in case of stalling wars vs. Bright Powder Anabel Latios;
  2. Raikou uses Calm Mind (which could have caused issues if used on turn 1 with my previous gameplan) and gets hit by Torment: same situation, a Tormented Raikou is a 100% exploitable set-up bait for Latios, I can also flex a bit with other team members to save Latios PPs (in the video I flexed a bit too much, but at this point the match is already won unless Bright Powder decides to shine more than 5 time in a row);
  3. Raikou uses Thunderbolt and OHKOs Skarmory (it has not happened yet; Skarm seems really lucky when not needed, since it doesn't matter at all): Latios can now safely switch in without taking damages and on a +0/+0 Raikou, which is an easy set-up bait unless something (very improbable) like 5 CH from a Kou that inexplicably decides to TB 5 times in a row happens.
I think this is by far the best gameplan my team can run, while directly switching in Latios is sub-optimized (even if I can lose Skarmory in this new process, it's way more valuable to safely set-up Latios).


EDIT: I've already shown this new gameplan in the video of 700 wins, ops. At least it wasn't commented.
 
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Weird post incoming. It's related to Battle Frontier because I am doing this "challenge" to get myself Pokemon for the BF. I thought about posting it in OI but it's not quite big enough for its own thread. Basically it's me asking for suggestions lol. I am currently undertaking the task of RNGing as many viable XD Pokemon as possible. Let's face it, most of the mons don't benefit too much, but Actaeon has proven that sad, forgotten things like Mightyena can do work when sticking to a ruleset like mono-type. There are enough potential gimmicks in this game to make it worth playing through. I'd like to include you guys on this a bit and get your thoughts. Here's what I have. Please note that my current captures are set in stone, and the few that I've killed off will not regenerate their PIDs.... so they too are also set in stone. Some spreads aren't perfect but most of them are quite good. Mixed ones are hard to find since PID and IVs are generated simultaneously for non-Egg/Event mons, and some Pokemon like Duskull have very strict requirements to even generate. Also, some abilities are locked, and I'm documenting my findings because a lot of this info has just turned into dead links over the past 9 years.

Caught

Mightyena (M)
IVs: 31/4/31/22/31/31
Ability: Intimidate
Bold Nature
- Heal Bell

Houndoom (M) @ Charcoal
IVs: 31/10/30/31/31/31 [HP Ice]
Ability: Early Bird ** This is set in stone, even with a Flash Fire PID, so no Flash Fire unfortunately.
Timid Nature
- Charm

Mareep (M)
IVs: 31/10/30/31/31/31 [HP Ice]
Ability: Static
Modest Nature
- Heal Bell

Spheal (F)
IVs: 31/13/30/30/31/31
Ability: Thick Fat
Bold Nature
- Charm

Nuzleaf (F)
IVs: 31/31/27/31/31/30 [HP Ice]
Ability: Early Bird ** Just like Houndoom, this is set in stone, sadly.
Rash Nature
- Refresh

Carvanha (M) @ BlackGlasses
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
Ability: Rough Skin
Mild Nature
- Refresh

Duskull (M)
IVs: 31/6/31/7/31/0
Ability: Levitate
Relaxed Nature
- Helping Hand


THE BIG PLAN

Zapdos
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Metal Sound
- Everything
- Else

This is ultimately the reason I picked up the game. It's also non-negotiable. The ID/SID combo I obtained is required to obtain this spread (due to a glitch, shiny shadow Pokemon don't exist in XD, and if you hit a shiny spread, it actually keeps the IVs but seeks out a new PID), and I'm not letting that work go to waste haha.

Now the part where I need your help! I'm looking for spread/nature/ability recommendations for the rest of the Pokemon. The full list is here, but unless you have specific recommendations, I'm going to limit it to the following list cause these RNG's usually take an hour or two and I do want to finish this game in my life time.

Baton Pass
  • Natu
  • Lunatone
  • Solrock
  • Beedrill
  • Hypno
  • Farfetch'd
Others
  • Sableye - Helping Hand
  • Togepi - Helping Hand, Tri Attack
  • Articuno - Heal Bell, Haze ** AFAIK I can only obtain one spread since it's generated along with Zapdos, and I don't know what that spread is at this point.
  • Dragonite - Heal Bell
As fun as having a smorgasbord of Baton Passers would be, I don't want to spend forever playing this game, as fun as it is.

Next up is Natu
Box_XD_177.png

That's all I care about in the immediate future, but any suggestions are welcome. Thanks guys!

Don't care for now (change my mind?)
Ralts, Mawile, Snorunt, Pineco, Roselia, Meowth, Swinub, Grimer, Seel, Zangoose, Paras, Growlithe, Shellder, Pidgeotto, Tangela, Butterfree, Magneton, Venomoth, Weepinbell, Arbok, Primeape, Raticate, Golduck, Sableye, Altaria, Kangaskhan, Banette, Magmar, Pinsir, Magcargo, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Lickitung, Chansey, Starmie, Electabuzz, Snorlax, Poliwrath, Mr. Mime, Dugtrio, Manectric, Salamence, Marowak, Lugia, Moltres, Tauros, Rhydon, Exeggutor, Spearow, Dodrio, Rapidash, Swellow, Scyther

Not RNG'd and PID already generated
Eevee, Teddiursa, Ledyba, Spinarak, Numel, Delcatty, Vulpix, Shroomish, Voltorb, Makuhita, Baltoy, Gulpin
 
NixHex said:
Weird post incoming. It's related to Battle Frontier because I am doing this "challenge" to get myself Pokemon for the BF. I thought about posting it in OI but it's not quite big enough for its own thread. Basically it's me asking for suggestions lol. I am currently undertaking the task of RNGing as many viable XD Pokemon as possible. Let's face it, most of the mons don't benefit too much, but Actaeon has proven that sad, forgotten things like Mightyena can do work when sticking to a ruleset like mono-type. There are enough potential gimmicks in this game to make it worth playing through. I'd like to include you guys on this a bit and get your thoughts. Here's what I have. Please note that my current captures are set in stone, and the few that I've killed off will not regenerate their PIDs.... so they too are also set in stone. Some spreads aren't perfect but most of them are quite good. Mixed ones are hard to find since PID and IVs are generated simultaneously for non-Egg/Event mons, and some Pokemon like Duskull have very strict requirements to even generate. Also, some abilities are locked, and I'm documenting my findings because a lot of this info has just turned into dead links over the past 9 years.
Click to expand...

Wow, great work! I've been following a couple of people on Youtube who're working on generating flawless shinies from Colosseum and XD. I'm rusty as hell when it comes to RNG but I'd love to devote some time to getting decent Pokemon from those games when I get my Wii back.


Re the "change my mind" section:

-As I mentioned in an earlier post, Morning Sun Scyther might be worth investing the time in (it's the only healing option it gets in g3)
-Any Pokemon that gets Baton Pass imo is worth trying for
-I got a Modest Tri Attack Serene Grace Togepi years back and it was well worth the effort until the Fairy type was introduced
-Everyone and their aunt on here has been making great use of Morning Sun/Will-o-Wisp Moltres, might be hell getting it in conjunction with Zapdos though
-I've always personally had a fondness for Sing Marowak but it's mostly non-viable competitively
 
greentyphlosion said:
Wow, great work! I've been following a couple of people on Youtube who're working on generating flawless shinies from Colosseum and XD. I'm rusty as hell when it comes to RNG but I'd love to devote some time to getting decent Pokemon from those games when I get my Wii back.


Re the "change my mind" section:

-As I mentioned in an earlier post, Morning Sun Scyther might be worth investing the time in (it's the only healing option it gets in g3)
-Any Pokemon that gets Baton Pass imo is worth trying for
-I got a Modest Tri Attack Serene Grace Togepi years back and it was well worth the effort until the Fairy type was introduced
-Everyone and their aunt on here has been making great use of Morning Sun/Will-o-Wisp Moltres, might be hell getting it in conjunction with Zapdos though
-I've always personally had a fondness for Sing Marowak but it's mostly non-viable competitively
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Ah yeah Scyther! I had that as well as all the Baton Passers but I tried to trim down the list as much as possible. And I didn't realize til now that Moltres didn't get those moves naturally or by TM, just assumed it got them because they were fire moves, I guess.

As far as Moltres and Articuno go, that Bold 0 Atk spread is viable for them too, so I might be able to duplicate my sav and go for each individually. I try not to mess around with savs in Dolphin though, I fear getting a corrupt memory card error and having everything go to waste.

Finally, regarding Natu, I just realized that one of its abilities is Early Bird, and if it's anything like Houndour and Seedot, it might be locked into that. Not a huge game changer since Synchronize is kind of situational in itself. Could work in conjunction with Rest I guess.
 
NixHex said:
As far as Moltres and Articuno go, that Bold 0 Atk spread is viable for them too, so I might be able to duplicate my sav and go for each individually. I try not to mess around with savs in Dolphin though, I fear getting a corrupt memory card error and having everything go to waste.
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If they're for Frontier purposes, go for Timid.
As Pressure stallers, their most important feature is to reach the highest speed benchmark available, to the point where, once hit a Leftovers HP number, Def/SpDef are almost irrelevant.

Their Subs of course are frail against Neutral hits (as every Sub vs not crippled foe), so they just need to outspeed and move first (Moltres needs Def a bit more because, thanks to W-o-W, it can take less than 25% from a lot of physical hits from burnt foes, but Spe is still more important: I have uploaded a replay of my Moltres stalling a Zapdos with ease, and Bold Moltres can't even dream of such achievements).
In particular:
  • Timid Moltres can sit at 154 Spe with 220 Spe EVs, outspeeding Neutral Nature 255 EVs 100 BST Spe (and that's an immense pool it definitely has to outspeed!);
  • Timid Zapdos can sit at 163 Spe with the same 220 Spe EVs investment, outspeeding Neutral Nature 255 EVs 110 BST Spe (Espeon and Gengar!!! Moltres is always forced out by them), while sadly Starmie is still too threatening and requires a Special sponge (Blissey is the best of course);
  • The speech about Articuno is a bit different, since it still can't ouspeed 100 BST Spe (that's a crucial feature imho) and it is the one with better defensive stats, so probably it's possible to tailor a different set. Btw keep in mind that Timid Articuno with 236 Spe Evs reaches 148, outspeeding and stalling Modest Houndoom, that otherwise forces it out every time (and there is no SpDef investment that can overcome this Timid Nature feature even for Cuno).
 
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NixHex said:
Ah yeah Scyther! I had that as well as all the Baton Passers but I tried to trim down the list as much as possible. And I didn't realize til now that Moltres didn't get those moves naturally or by TM, just assumed it got them because they were fire moves, I guess.

As far as Moltres and Articuno go, that Bold 0 Atk spread is viable for them too, so I might be able to duplicate my sav and go for each individually. I try not to mess around with savs in Dolphin though, I fear getting a corrupt memory card error and having everything go to waste.

Finally, regarding Natu, I just realized that one of its abilities is Early Bird, and if it's anything like Houndour and Seedot, it might be locked into that. Not a huge game changer since Synchronize is kind of situational in itself. Could work in conjunction with Rest I guess.
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Moltres gets Will-o-Wisp in g4 as it's a TM (this happened with a few of the XD-exclusive moves like Heal Bell, which became a Tutor Move - though amusingly while Lapras, Mareep, and Altaria regain access to the move Dragonite, Articuno, and Poochyena all lose out). It's amusing comparing how much better some of the XD Pokemon were made by their new moves in g3 as opposed to later. There are only a couple who are still viable nowadays.

Early Bird's sort of doable on Natu, I guess. I'm curious: if, as you mentioned, the Pokemon in question has the PID for one ability but has the other, does it regain the proper ability if evolved (either on XD or another game)? It's been ages since I played XD but I don't recall ever having difficulty getting the ability I wanted - are the abilities locked into the spreads you're targeting, or are they always locked for everyone?

(Also if you manage to RNG a decent Morning Sun Scyther I'll sell my soul for it)
 
greentyphlosion said:
Early Bird's sort of doable on Natu, I guess. I'm curious: if, as you mentioned, the Pokemon in question has the PID for one ability but has the other, does it regain the proper ability if evolved (either on XD or another game)? It's been ages since I played XD but I don't recall ever having difficulty getting the ability I wanted - are the abilities locked into the spreads you're targeting, or are they always locked for everyone?
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I thought that might work, but I evolved both Seedot and Houndour, and they kept Early Bird. Maybe they'd change abilities in the ADV games but I doubt it (plus it's too late, unfortunately).

(Also if you manage to RNG a decent Morning Sun Scyther I'll sell my soul for it)
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PM me (anyone else interested in these mons, do the same), or msg me on discord. Also relevant:

 
Oh and I gotta clarify about the ability. The way Pokemon are generated depend on the number of non-shadow Pokemon and the order in which they are generated (not necessarily generated). For technical info, i took some screenshots from a very old and outdated guide that demonstrates the method of generation.
1586548189569.png

Houndour was rather easy since it generates on the frame that you intend to hit. The note about Flash Fire is obviously wrong since my Flash Fire PID still yielded Early Bird, so ask me about birds (the author of the original guide) probably just wrote it up wrong. But there were a ton of spread/nature combos available. Same goes for Carvanah.

1586548320900.png

Duskull was a lot more strict because it is the last Pokemon generated, and Duskull must be 7 frames after the third. There are fewer available spreads simply because this situation (Serious male, Bashful Female, Quirky Male) has a lower probability of happening. However, it was easier to RNG because when the battle starts, the RNG "snaps" to the nearest Serious male and starts from there - you can afford to be less accurate yet still given the spread you need.

But regardless of the situation, it's clear that the ability will defy the PID, but I'm not quite sure if that applies to gender. I'll have to test it. The same cannot happen for shiny, however, since shininess is a mathematical operation, XOR(PID high, PID low, TID, SID) < 8. It is not a flag. If you had a shiny pokemon and hacked one of those values to where that equation would fail, it would become unshiny. But that doesn't matter for XD since it can't land on a shiny PID anyways. Too bad.
 
Adedede said:
If they're for Frontier purposes, go for Timid.
As Pressure stallers, their most important feature is to reach the highest speed benchmark available, to the point where, once hit a Leftovers HP number, Def/SpDef are almost irrelevant.

Their Subs of course are frail against Neutral hits (as every Sub vs not crippled foe), so they just need to outspeed and move first (Moltres needs Def a bit more because, thanks to W-o-W, it can take less than 25% from a lot of physical hits from burnt foes, but Spe is still more important: I have uploaded a replay of my Moltres stalling a Zapdos with ease, and Bold Moltres can't even dream of such achievements).
In particular:
  • Timid Moltres can sit at 154 Spe with 220 Spe EVs, outspeeding Neutral Nature 255 EVs 100 BST Spe (and that's an immense pool it definitely has to outspeed!);
  • Timid Zapdos can sit at 163 Spe with the same 220 Spe EVs investment, outspeeding Neutral Nature 255 EVs 110 BST Spe (Espeon and Gengar!!! Moltres is always forced out by them), while sadly Starmie is still too threatening and requires a Special sponge (Blissey is the best of course);
  • The speech about Articuno is a bit different, since it still can't ouspeed 100 BST Spe (that's a crucial feature imho) and it is the one with better defensive stats, so probably it's possible to tailor a different set. Btw keep in mind that Timid Articuno with 236 Spe Evs reaches 148, outspeeding and stalling Modest Houndoom, that otherwise forces it out every time (and there is no SpDef investment that can overcome this Timid Nature feature even for Cuno).
Click to expand...

Vouching for this as well. Don't ever use Bold on Moltres, it's a crime that violates the Geneva agreement and the Paris Peace Treaty. Timid is always the best nature. You can find the spread on both of mine and Adedede's notes. If you're using Flamethrower as I did, dump them in Special Attack. If you're going for Will-o-Wisp instead, use them on Defense. Base 95 +252 Spe getting the jump on neutral 100s is extremely relevant and it also gets the jump on the Lati@s.
 
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NixHex said:
Oh and I gotta clarify about the ability. The way Pokemon are generated depend on the number of non-shadow Pokemon and the order in which they are generated (not necessarily generated). For technical info, i took some screenshots from a very old and outdated guide that demonstrates the method of generation.
View attachment 235804
Houndour was rather easy since it generates on the frame that you intend to hit. The note about Flash Fire is obviously wrong since my Flash Fire PID still yielded Early Bird, so ask me about birds (the author of the original guide) probably just wrote it up wrong. But there were a ton of spread/nature combos available. Same goes for Carvanah.

View attachment 235806
Duskull was a lot more strict because it is the last Pokemon generated, and Duskull must be 7 frames after the third. There are fewer available spreads simply because this situation (Serious male, Bashful Female, Quirky Male) has a lower probability of happening. However, it was easier to RNG because when the battle starts, the RNG "snaps" to the nearest Serious male and starts from there - you can afford to be less accurate yet still given the spread you need.

But regardless of the situation, it's clear that the ability will defy the PID, but I'm not quite sure if that applies to gender. I'll have to test it. The same cannot happen for shiny, however, since shininess is a mathematical operation, XOR(PID high, PID low, TID, SID) < 8. It is not a flag. If you had a shiny pokemon and hacked one of those values to where that equation would fail, it would become unshiny. But that doesn't matter for XD since it can't land on a shiny PID anyways. Too bad.
Click to expand...

On XDRNG the Ability is calculated based on the IVs, not on the PID as it should've been on the mainline games. It's a common glitch on XD, so if your Houndour should be Flash Fire on regular terms, once you transfer into the GBA, the Ability could/should change.
 
Kommo-o said:
On XDRNG the Ability is calculated based on the IVs, not on the PID as it should've been on the mainline games. It's a common glitch on XD, so if your Houndour should be Flash Fire on regular terms, once you transfer into the GBA, the Ability could/should change.
Click to expand...
Oh interesting! That's great, that means that Houndoom will turn into Flash Fire, and Nuzleaf will turn into Chlorophyll. It also gives me hope for Natu which is awesome too. Thanks for the info. Praying that it turns out that way.
 
NixHex said:
Oh interesting! That's great, that means that Houndoom will turn into Flash Fire, and Nuzleaf will turn into Chlorophyll. It also gives me hope for Natu which is awesome too. Thanks for the info. Praying that it turns out that way.
Click to expand...

Just take into account that this is not guaranteed to happen. It happened with some of my Colo/XD RNGs I did a few years ago. I had a Skarmory that had Keen Eye on Colosseum but once I transferred to my Emerald, it was changed to Sturdy. Others did not changed their abilities.
 
Well I got Natu. This was my toughest one since there was a lot of potential for error. The frame advances at about 76-117 RNG frames / frame. As soon as you enter the Pre Gym in Phenac, Natu's trainer walks up to you. So basically you're relying on erratic frame advances and the Quirky M -> Quirky F generation sequence -- there are a lot, by the way. But here she is!
1586570248584.png

Timid 31/27/31/21/30/31 with Ability 0 PID, which might change to Synchronize when I send her over to emerald. The next Baton Passers I can get are Spearow and Lunatone. I'll have a bit more freedom with spreads since I'm not aiming for a specific ability, so hopefully I get get some 0 Atk ones.

Update
Got my Spearow
Box_XD_021.png

Timid 30/0/30/28/31/31. Now for Lunatone who honestly looks like it's going to be terrible to RNG but I'll give it a shot! ... tomorrow. I'm beat.

Update 2 (4/11/20 @ 2:38 AM)
Ah what the heck, what's one more?
Lunatone
Box_XD_337.png

Bold 31/0/30/20/31/30

Update 3
Nosepass*
Box_XD_299.png

Calm 31/5/31/29/31/31
*Can't catch until later, but IVs and PID are now stored.
 
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