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Metagame [Gen 9] Modern Gen 2
- Thread starter Noglastica
- Start date
no
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Just when I thought Modern Gen 1 was difficult now we have Modern Gen 2??!
I don't understand this tier. It seems fun but without the many FUN THINGS about gen 1, I'm not too sure about the laughs this meta gets. Maybe a replay or 2 can help me
I don't understand this tier. It seems fun but without the many FUN THINGS about gen 1, I'm not too sure about the laughs this meta gets. Maybe a replay or 2 can help me
I don't know how to describe this meta, it's kinda bulky offense heavy, like actual GSC but without killing other playstyles, i see this in the current "big 3" in the tier as i see it of
and 
altho the latter is very likely to get banned.I feel the fun of this meta is being somewhat tame next to MG1, but still horrendously jank from having years of content added into gen 2's mechanics, a lot of weird design you'd never expect to see in the series like Air Balloon that doesn't pop or Boots that only works on half of the hazards while also some of the design from vanilla gen 2 overlayed next to modern pokes like the single-layer Spikes or a bunch of modern bulky pokes being able to exploit Rest + Sleep Talk so intensely
It's kinda like mg1 but fun. MG1 is alot more offense clicking things like BW. MG2 has more variety in playstyles though is currently slightly more restricitng in teambuilding. However council will most likely be banning the restrictive mon so its a good time to join.
genuinely curious why do people enjoy mg1 over 2
I'll give an actual not troll answer for once. I'd be curious to know what mg1 players think though Copen
I would guess it comes down to the different viability of mons. Like some people really like BW even though I think its an incredibly unbalanced tier because it is "exciting" seeing alot of really strong mons click draco and you have basically no switch ins.
mg1 is balanced significantly better than bw is, especially impressive considering its a petmod and hasn't existed for whatever 10 years BW has existed for. So I would say one reason is because mg1 might have a more appealing meta whereas mg2 has balance and stall which are much more viable in mg2 than they are in mg1 (especially after protect has been banned.)
mg1 also, at least at its peak, had a much larger player base and interest than mg2 ever had. It's been around for longer... I am personally reluctant to ever try mg3 and now mg4 just because they are extremely niche and I'd have to learn all the weird quirks that come with mg tiers, so I completely understand why mg1 players wouldn't want to come learn mg2 when it came out.
It's over pult bros
In all seriousness how viable do you guys think draco meteor spam is gonna remain in the likely Pult-less OU? My only hope is Mel doesn't become unmanageable i really like using it on this tier and found it's MU vs. Pult pretty satisfactory for both sides
melm was really good, S rank before fblast pult was the standard. might see it go back to that, maybe not. My guess is it will stay A rank, but there's still plenty of ways to check/beat melm. Especially with lots of tran usage. might even see some eq melm.
The newest VR has been updated. I'm attaching the old VR just to save it for whatever future reason. Also including my thoughts on the new VR. The new VR has subrankings for the A ranks, while B and C ranks were not divided into subcategories. Interestingly, this is the first time that no Pokemon has been ranked in S tier.
New VR Ranking
A+ Rank
Heatran
Melmetal
Heatran has been so underutilized for so long and I'm happy it is finally getting the usage it deserves. Great defensive typing, access to plume/fblast/magma storm, roar, stealth rocks, explosion, protect, rest, and wisp makes it so versatile.
Melmetal has been a top ranked Pokemon since the beginning of mg2 and nothing has change. It is still running the same old DIB +Twave + Stalk set and is one of the main reasons you NEED a fire type on most teams.
A Rank
Blacephalon
Mew
Terrakion
Walking Wake
Blacephalon will always have a place in the meta just because of how useful it is on offense. Difficult to switch into STABs + boom makes it threatening. Can flex a last move slot on wisp, sub, overheat (with eject pack), and even calm mind. Unfortunately has to pick its poison between missing out on boots or balloon.
Mew the only currently legal Pokemon that was ranked S last VR, Mew has fallen off a bit due to new lead threats and more Dragapult usage. However, with Pult banned, we might see Mew climb back up to S rank.
Terrakion is another really strong Pokemon with great STABs and very good bulk. Has a nice speed tier making it somewhat limiting in what can revenge. Last slot can be polish, mega horn, eq, or air slash.
Walking Wake can just come in and click moves frequently. Outspeeding Terrakion by 1 is great utility in teambuilding with powerful STABs, flip turn, knock, flamethrower, agility, and even stalk sets. Thank god it doesn't have CM.
A- Rank
Ferrothorn
Iron Moth
Latias
Starmie
Ferrothorn basically just clicks hazards, knock, status, and remains a general nuisance to teams. It's a good Pokemon and will find usage on plenty of balance teams in spite of the Bundle ban that made it so popular to begin with.
Iron Moth clicks fire move. Neutral resists beware. Extremely powerful fire blast, u-turn, and the choice of morning sun, sunny day, toxic spikes, or even additional coverage moves like psychic makes this a very good Pokemon. It is also very fast!
Latias has good bulk, speed, and offensive pressure. Most commonly used as a calm mind user, Latias can also run more offensive sets and even defensive utility sets. A very versatile Pokemon.
Starmie is a Pokemon that I will admit I ranked lower than the other council members on. Haven't been sold on it, but good speed, rapid spin, status, and great offensive coverage certainly keeps it viable.
B Rank
Blissey - the pinnacle special wall. Is passive and can be pivoted on, knocked, and status'd easily, but nothing stops specials like it.
Chi-Yu - Clicks fire move. Clicks nasty plot, Clicks flame charge. Just wins against unprepared teams.
Clodsire - Currently exists largely as Zeraora cope, but gets all kinds of hazards and has solid bulk and the best recovery move.
Dhelmise - Another Pokemon that I ranked as an outlier compared to other council, Dhelmise gets spin, can spinblock, has respectable recovery options, and knock. Not to mention any team without a ghost resist is in deep trouble.
Garchomp - Hits hard, great coverage options. Hard to know what sets it can run. Getting spikes is great for it as well.
Garganacl - Like Melmetal, you kinda know what set it's going to be running but its so tough to actually deal with it. Little wants to take a salt cure, and less can even deal with Garganacl.
Gastrodon - Great defensive typing but middling stats. Has spikes + rocks which is great, and is arguably the most effective Melm wall.
Gholdengo - In my opinion, the OTHER reason you essentially need a fire type on teams. Almost the equivalent of Blissey for physical attackers, very little can touch it. Really hates getting knocked though.
Glimmora - A new up and coming lead: Glimmora gets em up and gets to spin while being threatened by very little, especially in the lead matchup.
Gliscor - One of my personal favorites, good defensive typing, good recovery, good offensive stats, knock, hazards, what is not to like?
Goodra-Hisui - I hate that this mon exists but it is incredibly durable. A sitting duck if not using a curse set which does restrict what it can actually run, but is difficult to deal with even for prepared teams.
Hoopa-Unbound - Has scary STABs, clicks plot, clicks sub. Would be ranked higher if steel didn't resist psychic + dark.
Kommo-o - Omniboost moves are stupid already, but it also has sub-salac drum to make it even more annoying. Very tanky as well with minimal fairy types. No scarf means at +1 it's faster than everything.
Kyurem - Bundle cope mon, can shred slow teams behind a sub with dtail + freeze dry.
Latios - Latias if you want to die faster and do 5% more before you do.
Meowscarada - Fast lead with turn, knock, very strong STAB, and spikes.
Galar Slowbro - Toxic Spike clearer that turns into an unkillable CM monster.
Sneasler - Close combat, uturn, toxic spikes, swords dance, and sometimes just puts your check to sleep with dire claw.
Suicune - Bad manaphy, clicks cm and stalk. The good news is you get to hit it 30 times to try to crit before it can do anything, the bad news is your opponent will complain when you inevitably do.
Tapu Fini - Scary effective tank but vulnerable to hazards and will undoubtedly see less usage with Pult gone. Can run CM.
Toxapex - Tapu fini but if you want to make progress. Gets tspikes, knock, scald for doing things. Also has better recovery option.
Iron Treads - Can destroy certain fat teams (unless Dhelmise) with Knock + EQ + Spin. I personally am a rest treads enthusiast. Can run volt or iron head or something on more offensive teams. Even rocks is viable I guess.
Great Tusk - Impossible to switch into, probably should unban a good ghost type. Might even see this increase to A-. Knock + CC + 120bp ground move I'm forgetting the name of has no checks (other than Dhelmise... wait maybe they're onto something). Also spin and rocks.
Tyranitar - Foul play, coverage, pursuit, rocks, and now DD Mega are all viable options.
Volcanion - Fire stab, water stab, can flex a third coverage move/wisp + boom, or can even try stalk.
Zapdos - Surprisingly difficult to kill and switch into its thunderbolt + coverage options. Great recovery, can run status and pivot as well.
C Rank
Aerodactyl - Hone claws so you don't miss hurricane + sedge. Can go normal lead but suicide lead for rocks is blegh.
Alakazam - CM, encore, recovery, status, great speed tier. Held back by awful physical bulk.
Arctozolt - STABs tough to switch into. Slow though.
Azelf - What Latios is to Latias, Azelf is to Mew.
Celesteela - Steel flying is good defensive typing. Also meteor beam is technically real.
Corviknight - Steel flying is good defensive typing. Also bulk up is technically real.
Diancie - Access to both hazards, the other viable fairy type alongside Fini. Good bulk, bad recovery option, but mega is actually decent.
Dragonite - Great movepool options, unfortunately is slower than every other viable dragon. Certainly has a niche. Somewhere.
Empoleon - Bundle cope mon, but flip turn, knock, hazards, and now roost makes it viable.
Flutter Mane - Forgot this existed. Fairy type is great. Makes for a surprisingly effective special wall. No recovery sucks. Also plot.
Genesect - Can go physical/special/mixed, shift gear, boom, u-turn.
Greninja - Good speed tier and solid STABs + u-turn, not to mention has (t)spikes.
Mega Heracross - Only one use (by me cause I thought GSC sprite was cool) but has shockingly good bulk and eats non-STAB fire blasts with stalk. Just gotta hit the megahorns.
Hydreigon - Scary STABs + coverage, can go 3atk plot, 2atk plot + roost, or more utility with like 3atk roost. Lots of options.
Iron Hands - Great physical wall against certain threats. No recovery sucks for it. Knock + terrak check I guess.
Jellicent - Wisp, recover, scald, technically can run strength stab, and spinblocks (except not dhelmise, wtf is up with that mon hello??)
Kartana - Society if grass was physical. Gets knock, steel STAB, sacred sword, and can go SD or synthesis.
Keldeo - Less bulk, more spa than cune. Can go flip turn sets but competes with Wake for that.
Kingambit - Knock + solid defensive typing.
Landorus-Therian - Knock, solid defensive typing, uturn, hazards.
Mandibuzz - Knock, solid defensive typing, uturn (wait a minute).
Mantine - Solid defensive typing... no knock but does have scald.
Metagross - I think regular utility is bad but mega cosmic power can still be real if you believe. Tough to kill and is faster than you.
Raikou - Not really a reason to use this right now over Zeraora in my opinion but is still solid. Will stay C if Zera is banned. Maybe UR if not.
Regieleki - Not really a reason to use this right now. Boom, spin, speed tier just faster than zera so you can do 3 to it.
Salamence - Mega Aerodactyl if it did more damage and missed its attacks.
Samurott-Hisui - Gren but slower, bulkier, and if instead of clicking "spikes" you want to click spikes but do 14%
Scream Tail - Fairy type. Uhhhhhh. Calm mind.
Shaymin Sky - LETS GOOOOO SKYMIN RANKED AFTER OVER A YEAR RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. SKYMIN HAS ACCESS TO TWO VIABLE SETS. THE FIRST IS THE MAIN SEED FLARE, LEECH SEED, SUBSTITUTE, PROTECT, WHICH CAN ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISH UNPREPARED TEAMS. WHILE LEECH SEED IS BAD IN GENERATION 2, SKYMIN GETS IMMENSE PRESSURE AND WITH ITS GREAT SPEED TIER CAN BE DIFFICULT TO FORCE OUT WITHOUT ROAR. HOWEVER, THE MAIN ROAR USER IS HEATRAN WHICH IS SCARED OF SKYMIN'S SECOND SET WHICH IS SEED FLARE + EARTH POWER + 2 MOVES, THESE CAN ALSO BE LEECH SEED + EITHER SUB/PROTECT, OR IT CAN BE EXTRA OFFENSIVE MOVES LIKE AIR SLASH OR HIDDEN POWER (ICE/FIRE). WHILE I FULLY UNDERSTAND SHAYMIN'S LIMITATIONS, ITS POWERFUL SIGNATURE STAB MOVE COMBINED WITH ITS GREAT SPEED TIER AND SPIKE IMMUNITY MAKES IT VIABLE.
Sinistcha - Manaphy cope, but clicks CM and matcha gatcha. Can even use a weird utility set like I did which wasn't bad (strength sap W)
Skarmory - Flying steel is viable. Spikes. 3mm believes this is not a melmetal check though.
Galar Slowking - glowbro if you wanted to not have a wincon. Gets a pivot move which is nice for it.
Snorlax - Great movepool but powercrept. Can run random curse/boom sets. Waiting for someone else to try drumlax...
Tentacruel - Rapid spin, toxic spikes. scald. THIS THING GETS KNOCK???
Ursaluna Bloodmoon - Bulky. I don't even know if anyone has used it but bulk + cm probably makes it usable.
Victini - Scary STABs + pivot + even electric coverage.
Galar Zapdos - Scary STABs + pivot + no electric coverage BUT it can do a stalk or bulk up set.
New VR Ranking
A+ Rank
Heatran MelmetalHeatran has been so underutilized for so long and I'm happy it is finally getting the usage it deserves. Great defensive typing, access to plume/fblast/magma storm, roar, stealth rocks, explosion, protect, rest, and wisp makes it so versatile.
Melmetal has been a top ranked Pokemon since the beginning of mg2 and nothing has change. It is still running the same old DIB +Twave + Stalk set and is one of the main reasons you NEED a fire type on most teams.
A Rank
Blacephalon Mew Terrakion Walking WakeBlacephalon will always have a place in the meta just because of how useful it is on offense. Difficult to switch into STABs + boom makes it threatening. Can flex a last move slot on wisp, sub, overheat (with eject pack), and even calm mind. Unfortunately has to pick its poison between missing out on boots or balloon.
Mew the only currently legal Pokemon that was ranked S last VR, Mew has fallen off a bit due to new lead threats and more Dragapult usage. However, with Pult banned, we might see Mew climb back up to S rank.
Terrakion is another really strong Pokemon with great STABs and very good bulk. Has a nice speed tier making it somewhat limiting in what can revenge. Last slot can be polish, mega horn, eq, or air slash.
Walking Wake can just come in and click moves frequently. Outspeeding Terrakion by 1 is great utility in teambuilding with powerful STABs, flip turn, knock, flamethrower, agility, and even stalk sets. Thank god it doesn't have CM.
A- Rank
Ferrothorn Iron Moth Latias StarmieFerrothorn basically just clicks hazards, knock, status, and remains a general nuisance to teams. It's a good Pokemon and will find usage on plenty of balance teams in spite of the Bundle ban that made it so popular to begin with.
Iron Moth clicks fire move. Neutral resists beware. Extremely powerful fire blast, u-turn, and the choice of morning sun, sunny day, toxic spikes, or even additional coverage moves like psychic makes this a very good Pokemon. It is also very fast!
Latias has good bulk, speed, and offensive pressure. Most commonly used as a calm mind user, Latias can also run more offensive sets and even defensive utility sets. A very versatile Pokemon.
Starmie is a Pokemon that I will admit I ranked lower than the other council members on. Haven't been sold on it, but good speed, rapid spin, status, and great offensive coverage certainly keeps it viable.
B Rank
Blissey - the pinnacle special wall. Is passive and can be pivoted on, knocked, and status'd easily, but nothing stops specials like it. Chi-Yu - Clicks fire move. Clicks nasty plot, Clicks flame charge. Just wins against unprepared teams. Clodsire - Currently exists largely as Zeraora cope, but gets all kinds of hazards and has solid bulk and the best recovery move. Dhelmise - Another Pokemon that I ranked as an outlier compared to other council, Dhelmise gets spin, can spinblock, has respectable recovery options, and knock. Not to mention any team without a ghost resist is in deep trouble. Garchomp - Hits hard, great coverage options. Hard to know what sets it can run. Getting spikes is great for it as well. Garganacl - Like Melmetal, you kinda know what set it's going to be running but its so tough to actually deal with it. Little wants to take a salt cure, and less can even deal with Garganacl. Gastrodon - Great defensive typing but middling stats. Has spikes + rocks which is great, and is arguably the most effective Melm wall. Gholdengo - In my opinion, the OTHER reason you essentially need a fire type on teams. Almost the equivalent of Blissey for physical attackers, very little can touch it. Really hates getting knocked though. Glimmora - A new up and coming lead: Glimmora gets em up and gets to spin while being threatened by very little, especially in the lead matchup. Gliscor - One of my personal favorites, good defensive typing, good recovery, good offensive stats, knock, hazards, what is not to like? Goodra-Hisui - I hate that this mon exists but it is incredibly durable. A sitting duck if not using a curse set which does restrict what it can actually run, but is difficult to deal with even for prepared teams. Hoopa-Unbound - Has scary STABs, clicks plot, clicks sub. Would be ranked higher if steel didn't resist psychic + dark. Kommo-o - Omniboost moves are stupid already, but it also has sub-salac drum to make it even more annoying. Very tanky as well with minimal fairy types. No scarf means at +1 it's faster than everything. Kyurem - Bundle cope mon, can shred slow teams behind a sub with dtail + freeze dry. Latios - Latias if you want to die faster and do 5% more before you do. Meowscarada - Fast lead with turn, knock, very strong STAB, and spikes. Galar Slowbro - Toxic Spike clearer that turns into an unkillable CM monster. Sneasler - Close combat, uturn, toxic spikes, swords dance, and sometimes just puts your check to sleep with dire claw. Suicune - Bad manaphy, clicks cm and stalk. The good news is you get to hit it 30 times to try to crit before it can do anything, the bad news is your opponent will complain when you inevitably do. Tapu Fini - Scary effective tank but vulnerable to hazards and will undoubtedly see less usage with Pult gone. Can run CM. Toxapex - Tapu fini but if you want to make progress. Gets tspikes, knock, scald for doing things. Also has better recovery option. Iron Treads - Can destroy certain fat teams (unless Dhelmise) with Knock + EQ + Spin. I personally am a rest treads enthusiast. Can run volt or iron head or something on more offensive teams. Even rocks is viable I guess. Great Tusk - Impossible to switch into, probably should unban a good ghost type. Might even see this increase to A-. Knock + CC + 120bp ground move I'm forgetting the name of has no checks (other than Dhelmise... wait maybe they're onto something). Also spin and rocks. Tyranitar - Foul play, coverage, pursuit, rocks, and now DD Mega are all viable options. Volcanion - Fire stab, water stab, can flex a third coverage move/wisp + boom, or can even try stalk. Zapdos - Surprisingly difficult to kill and switch into its thunderbolt + coverage options. Great recovery, can run status and pivot as well.C Rank
Aerodactyl - Hone claws so you don't miss hurricane + sedge. Can go normal lead but suicide lead for rocks is blegh. Alakazam - CM, encore, recovery, status, great speed tier. Held back by awful physical bulk. Arctozolt - STABs tough to switch into. Slow though. Azelf - What Latios is to Latias, Azelf is to Mew. Celesteela - Steel flying is good defensive typing. Also meteor beam is technically real. Corviknight - Steel flying is good defensive typing. Also bulk up is technically real. Diancie - Access to both hazards, the other viable fairy type alongside Fini. Good bulk, bad recovery option, but mega is actually decent. Dragonite - Great movepool options, unfortunately is slower than every other viable dragon. Certainly has a niche. Somewhere. Empoleon - Bundle cope mon, but flip turn, knock, hazards, and now roost makes it viable. Flutter Mane - Forgot this existed. Fairy type is great. Makes for a surprisingly effective special wall. No recovery sucks. Also plot. Genesect - Can go physical/special/mixed, shift gear, boom, u-turn. Greninja - Good speed tier and solid STABs + u-turn, not to mention has (t)spikes. Mega Heracross - Only one use (by me cause I thought GSC sprite was cool) but has shockingly good bulk and eats non-STAB fire blasts with stalk. Just gotta hit the megahorns. Hydreigon - Scary STABs + coverage, can go 3atk plot, 2atk plot + roost, or more utility with like 3atk roost. Lots of options. Iron Hands - Great physical wall against certain threats. No recovery sucks for it. Knock + terrak check I guess. Jellicent - Wisp, recover, scald, technically can run strength stab, and spinblocks (except not dhelmise, wtf is up with that mon hello??) Kartana - Society if grass was physical. Gets knock, steel STAB, sacred sword, and can go SD or synthesis. Keldeo - Less bulk, more spa than cune. Can go flip turn sets but competes with Wake for that. Kingambit - Knock + solid defensive typing. Landorus-Therian - Knock, solid defensive typing, uturn, hazards. Mandibuzz - Knock, solid defensive typing, uturn (wait a minute). Mantine - Solid defensive typing... no knock but does have scald. Metagross - I think regular utility is bad but mega cosmic power can still be real if you believe. Tough to kill and is faster than you. Raikou - Not really a reason to use this right now over Zeraora in my opinion but is still solid. Will stay C if Zera is banned. Maybe UR if not. Regieleki - Not really a reason to use this right now. Boom, spin, speed tier just faster than zera so you can do 3 to it. Salamence - Mega Aerodactyl if it did more damage and missed its attacks. Samurott-Hisui - Gren but slower, bulkier, and if instead of clicking "spikes" you want to click spikes but do 14% Scream Tail - Fairy type. Uhhhhhh. Calm mind. Shaymin Sky - LETS GOOOOO SKYMIN RANKED AFTER OVER A YEAR RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. SKYMIN HAS ACCESS TO TWO VIABLE SETS. THE FIRST IS THE MAIN SEED FLARE, LEECH SEED, SUBSTITUTE, PROTECT, WHICH CAN ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISH UNPREPARED TEAMS. WHILE LEECH SEED IS BAD IN GENERATION 2, SKYMIN GETS IMMENSE PRESSURE AND WITH ITS GREAT SPEED TIER CAN BE DIFFICULT TO FORCE OUT WITHOUT ROAR. HOWEVER, THE MAIN ROAR USER IS HEATRAN WHICH IS SCARED OF SKYMIN'S SECOND SET WHICH IS SEED FLARE + EARTH POWER + 2 MOVES, THESE CAN ALSO BE LEECH SEED + EITHER SUB/PROTECT, OR IT CAN BE EXTRA OFFENSIVE MOVES LIKE AIR SLASH OR HIDDEN POWER (ICE/FIRE). WHILE I FULLY UNDERSTAND SHAYMIN'S LIMITATIONS, ITS POWERFUL SIGNATURE STAB MOVE COMBINED WITH ITS GREAT SPEED TIER AND SPIKE IMMUNITY MAKES IT VIABLE. Sinistcha - Manaphy cope, but clicks CM and matcha gatcha. Can even use a weird utility set like I did which wasn't bad (strength sap W) Skarmory - Flying steel is viable. Spikes. 3mm believes this is not a melmetal check though. Galar Slowking - glowbro if you wanted to not have a wincon. Gets a pivot move which is nice for it. Snorlax - Great movepool but powercrept. Can run random curse/boom sets. Waiting for someone else to try drumlax... Tentacruel - Rapid spin, toxic spikes. scald. THIS THING GETS KNOCK??? Ursaluna Bloodmoon - Bulky. I don't even know if anyone has used it but bulk + cm probably makes it usable. Victini - Scary STABs + pivot + even electric coverage. Galar Zapdos - Scary STABs + pivot + no electric coverage BUT it can do a stalk or bulk up set.S
Dragapult
Mew
Iron Bundle
A
Melmetal
Blacephalon
Blissey
Chi Yu
Heatran
Latias
Terrakion
B
Annihilape
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Garganacl
Gastrodon
Gholdengo
Latios
Metagross (Mega)
Skarmory
Slowbro Galar (Mega)
Sneasler
Starmie
Toxapex
Iron Treads
Great Tusk
Walking Wake
C
Alakazam
Articuno
Azelf
Buzzwole
Clodsire
Corviknight
Cyclizar
Dhelmise
Diancie
Excadrill
Genesect
Gengar (Mega)
Gliscor
Greninja
Hippowdon
Houndoom (Mega)
Hydreigon
Iron Hands
Iron Moth
Jellicent
Kartana
Kleavor
Kyurem
Landorus-Therian
Mandibuzz
Lucario (Mega)
Milotic
Muk-Alola
Palossand
Raikou
Regieleki
Samurott-Hisui
Slowking-Galar
Snorlax
Suicune
Tapu Fini
Tentacruel
Ting Lu
Tyranitar
Umbreon
Victini
Volcanion
Zapdos
Zapdos-Galar
Zeraora
Dragapult Mew Iron BundleA
Melmetal Blacephalon Blissey Chi Yu Heatran Latias TerrakionB
Annihilape Ferrothorn Garchomp Garganacl Gastrodon Gholdengo Latios Metagross (Mega) Skarmory Slowbro Galar (Mega) Sneasler Starmie Toxapex Iron Treads Great Tusk Walking WakeC
Alakazam Articuno Azelf Buzzwole Clodsire Corviknight Cyclizar Dhelmise Diancie Excadrill Genesect Gengar (Mega) Gliscor Greninja Hippowdon Houndoom (Mega) Hydreigon Iron Hands Iron Moth Jellicent Kartana Kleavor Kyurem Landorus-TherianMandibuzz Lucario (Mega) MiloticMuk-Alola Palossand Raikou Regieleki Samurott-Hisui Slowking-Galar Snorlax Suicune Tapu Fini Tentacruel Ting Lu Tyranitar Umbreon Victini Volcanion Zapdos Zapdos-Galar Zeraora
Last edited:
Both Dragapult and Zeraora have been banned by council from mg2ou.
Dragapult Votes:
Noglastica: Do Not Ban
R8: Ban
3MoreMinutes: Ban
qsns: Ban
Zeraora Votes:
Noglastica: Do Not Ban
R8: Ban
3MoreMinutes: Abstain
qsns: Ban
Dragapult Votes:
Noglastica: Do Not Ban
R8: Ban
3MoreMinutes: Ban
qsns: Ban
Zeraora Votes:
Noglastica: Do Not Ban
R8: Ban
3MoreMinutes: Abstain
qsns: Ban
This is insane.
I was seeing this Pult ban from a mile, but the Zeraora ban is also p nuts
I'm happy with this, looking forward to the future of MG2OU!
Edit: Seems like a pretty good time to rework the sample teams now too, huh...
When will u guys ban every ou mon in this meta? I hope u actually retest some of these mons in dlc2
Nog Blog #IDK
I've decided to end my boycott on playing mons and only commenting "unban pult" in order to play mons and still comment "unban pult." This is my thoughts on the DLC 2 content.
New Mons:
- I still have no idea how to spell it. Interesting typing, I think it'll fit a similar niche to Gholdengo of really tough to kill and can spinblock until it gets knocked. That being said...
248 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
That is a pretty nuts calc. Like gho, I think it could be super annoying to deal with on stall teams but also like gho it's limited by its even worse movepool. Basically all you're clicking is toxic or parting shot which is its one saving grace. Doing literally nothing to treads though on a switch in does suck though.
- Awful obviously because no ability, you're looking at a normal type with the same base stats as piloswine.
- Pretty cool mon, awful speed tier but its only physical weaknesses are flying, bug, fairy, and poison which are probably some of the least used offensive types in the tier and it can most likely take dragon moves decently at +1. I feel like it might need to be a stalk mon unfortunately and has to choose between dragon/grass mono...
- This mon is stupid. Not stupid broken, just stupid. I have bad experiences dealing with bulky steel/dragon types that can set up. Swords dance with solid special coverage moves certainly semes viable with balloon. Max evs also makes its spdf weakness not awful for it.
248 SpA Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Archaludon: 344-406 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Raging Bolt just seems like the better alternative to Hydrapple. Electric obviously has less weaknesses while still hitting water super effectively which is the important one. All in all, calm mind electrics are stupid. I don't think it's going to be busted but I think it will be pretty good.
- Visually I think it looks nice. Great defensive typing for it and can probably be annoying to deal with. Solid coverage and setup. Would be really good if it got rocks. Think it wont be used much but will still have a niche.
- Seems not good! Both STABs are special with a 65 spa. If you want to run stone edge, earthquake, double edge with middling defensive typing though, this is your mon!
- Seems decent. qsns has been using it on most teams but I'm definitely not sold on it. Not even 100% sure its better than terrak. Better speed tier is great for it so chipped wake can't revenge. I don't think missing out on STAB CC makes up for being able to 2HKO Tusk with psychic though. Just comes down to if the speed tier is worth it which it very much might be.
+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Walking Wake: 247-292 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: The speed tier is actually nicer than I thought. This might be a really nice revenge kill option. The only ranked mon faster than it is Skymin and Flutter Mane (can't remember if Mane is ranked though).
The notable mons that Boulder is faster than that Terrak is slower than are:
Obviously outspeeding wake on a revenge is massive, especially with how good it is right now.
/ Less important, Lati doesn't even really want to come in anyway and has much less usage now.
Also not that important considering the moth can't really touch Boulder. I was critical of missing out on the STAB CC earlier but it probably has better defensive typing. I used to somewhat cheat on a Terrak check on offensive teams by combining offensive revenge threats like Wake and Psychic Iron Moth to deal with it but I can't do that with Boulder because a) everything else is basically slower b) better resistances. It's now neutral to fighting and resists psychic in exchange for now being weak to ghost and dark but with pult gone that's not as big of a deal.
This is actually really nice. Sneasler I think has fallen off somewhat in usage for whatever reason but we might see it more with pult out of the picture. That being said, it gets slapped by psychic and no longer has a super effective STAB CC to revenge with.
I think outside of wake, this is the only one that's actually important to outspeed because it's a fast mon that has a super effective STAB. Obviously CC kills but if you're trying to avoid drop you kill surprisingly early with cleave.
+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Meowscarada: 291-343 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
New Moves:
Thunderclap: Obviously good for raging bolt because its slow but I imagine because its only 70bp we see multiple electric moves especially because it has so little coverage options. I imagine we get thunderclap, dragon hammer (more pp same damage as dragon pulse), calm mind, and then probably thunderbolt or even thunder to try to break through neutral walls/opposing cm stuff. In theory could also use rest as last option. Or body press...
252 Def Raging Bolt Body Press vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Iron Treads: 96-114 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Tachyon Cutter: Yeah I guess 100bp steel move is nice. Double hit matters if you're against Kyurem or something but like... only 72 attack.
Burning Bulwark: Honestly a pretty decent move unfortunate it's on an unmon. It doesn't even get wisp which sucks for it, and you're not getting recovery off it unless you're choosing lefties over boots and balloon. Can really only imagine this mon existing on a full sun team if you need a setter and even then it can't even abuse or pivot with it.
Mighty Cleave: It has come to my attention that stone edge is only 100bp so yeah it's just 100% accuracy for 5 less bp. Very good.
Psychic Noise: I totally forgot about this move and I think it's new but yeah this might be really awesome to have to deal with stall stuff. Super annoying on mew and probably plenty of other stuff. I hate mew right now. Move it back to S. And also unban pult.
All in all, I think we're getting two good mons (boulder and bolt), a serviceable C rank mon in crown, and also we're getting gouging fire! So cool.
Enjoy a small dump of bad offense teams that I made! I'm still trying to figure out what are the main threats to worry about offensively before I actually start building balance and stall stuff so I know what to deal with.
https://pokepast.es/de28a4299b1dcf3c another nog offense team thats just "good mons thrown together" (replay corrupted)
https://pokepast.es/f94e7ca0675e8bb7 (worst team I've ever made, this was built in a fit of rage so we would unban a certainly fire resistant + boom immune revenge killer) 1-0 tho... (replay also corrupted)
https://pokepast.es/4cabf1455c915b10 wanted to build with mix mence which is a cool mon replay
https://pokepast.es/509a8d007401f5eb not a good team but I will always try to make weather work replay
https://pokepast.es/3194491da1c1ea2c this team is also not good mainly because it's balance without any real identity or great synergy replay
https://pokepast.es/d60f3873bf71817e wanted to bring back the goat who remains UNDEFEATED (2-0) replay
https://pokepast.es/93e136a10f8756c4 mega doom but was carried by a sick sub salac garchomp set replay
I've decided to end my boycott on playing mons and only commenting "unban pult" in order to play mons and still comment "unban pult." This is my thoughts on the DLC 2 content.
New Mons:
- I still have no idea how to spell it. Interesting typing, I think it'll fit a similar niche to Gholdengo of really tough to kill and can spinblock until it gets knocked. That being said...248 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Pecharunt: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
That is a pretty nuts calc. Like gho, I think it could be super annoying to deal with on stall teams but also like gho it's limited by its even worse movepool. Basically all you're clicking is toxic or parting shot which is its one saving grace. Doing literally nothing to treads though on a switch in does suck though.
- Awful obviously because no ability, you're looking at a normal type with the same base stats as piloswine. - Pretty cool mon, awful speed tier but its only physical weaknesses are flying, bug, fairy, and poison which are probably some of the least used offensive types in the tier and it can most likely take dragon moves decently at +1. I feel like it might need to be a stalk mon unfortunately and has to choose between dragon/grass mono... - This mon is stupid. Not stupid broken, just stupid. I have bad experiences dealing with bulky steel/dragon types that can set up. Swords dance with solid special coverage moves certainly semes viable with balloon. Max evs also makes its spdf weakness not awful for it.248 SpA Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Archaludon: 344-406 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Raging Bolt just seems like the better alternative to Hydrapple. Electric obviously has less weaknesses while still hitting water super effectively which is the important one. All in all, calm mind electrics are stupid. I don't think it's going to be busted but I think it will be pretty good. - Visually I think it looks nice. Great defensive typing for it and can probably be annoying to deal with. Solid coverage and setup. Would be really good if it got rocks. Think it wont be used much but will still have a niche. - Seems not good! Both STABs are special with a 65 spa. If you want to run stone edge, earthquake, double edge with middling defensive typing though, this is your mon! - Seems decent. qsns has been using it on most teams but I'm definitely not sold on it. Not even 100% sure its better than terrak. Better speed tier is great for it so chipped wake can't revenge. I don't think missing out on STAB CC makes up for being able to 2HKO Tusk with psychic though. Just comes down to if the speed tier is worth it which it very much might be.+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Walking Wake: 247-292 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: The speed tier is actually nicer than I thought. This might be a really nice revenge kill option. The only ranked mon faster than it is Skymin and Flutter Mane (can't remember if Mane is ranked though).
The notable mons that Boulder is faster than that Terrak is slower than are:
Obviously outspeeding wake on a revenge is massive, especially with how good it is right now. / Less important, Lati doesn't even really want to come in anyway and has much less usage now. Also not that important considering the moth can't really touch Boulder. I was critical of missing out on the STAB CC earlier but it probably has better defensive typing. I used to somewhat cheat on a Terrak check on offensive teams by combining offensive revenge threats like Wake and Psychic Iron Moth to deal with it but I can't do that with Boulder because a) everything else is basically slower b) better resistances. It's now neutral to fighting and resists psychic in exchange for now being weak to ghost and dark but with pult gone that's not as big of a deal. This is actually really nice. Sneasler I think has fallen off somewhat in usage for whatever reason but we might see it more with pult out of the picture. That being said, it gets slapped by psychic and no longer has a super effective STAB CC to revenge with. I think outside of wake, this is the only one that's actually important to outspeed because it's a fast mon that has a super effective STAB. Obviously CC kills but if you're trying to avoid drop you kill surprisingly early with cleave.+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Meowscarada: 291-343 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
New Moves:
Thunderclap: Obviously good for raging bolt because its slow but I imagine because its only 70bp we see multiple electric moves especially because it has so little coverage options. I imagine we get thunderclap, dragon hammer (more pp same damage as dragon pulse), calm mind, and then probably thunderbolt or even thunder to try to break through neutral walls/opposing cm stuff. In theory could also use rest as last option. Or body press...
252 Def Raging Bolt Body Press vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Iron Treads: 96-114 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Tachyon Cutter: Yeah I guess 100bp steel move is nice. Double hit matters if you're against Kyurem or something but like... only 72 attack.
Burning Bulwark: Honestly a pretty decent move unfortunate it's on an unmon. It doesn't even get wisp which sucks for it, and you're not getting recovery off it unless you're choosing lefties over boots and balloon. Can really only imagine this mon existing on a full sun team if you need a setter and even then it can't even abuse or pivot with it.
Mighty Cleave: It has come to my attention that stone edge is only 100bp so yeah it's just 100% accuracy for 5 less bp. Very good.
Psychic Noise: I totally forgot about this move and I think it's new but yeah this might be really awesome to have to deal with stall stuff. Super annoying on mew and probably plenty of other stuff. I hate mew right now. Move it back to S. And also unban pult.
All in all, I think we're getting two good mons (boulder and bolt), a serviceable C rank mon in crown, and also we're getting gouging fire! So cool.
Enjoy a small dump of bad offense teams that I made! I'm still trying to figure out what are the main threats to worry about offensively before I actually start building balance and stall stuff so I know what to deal with.
https://pokepast.es/de28a4299b1dcf3c another nog offense team thats just "good mons thrown together" (replay corrupted)
https://pokepast.es/f94e7ca0675e8bb7 (worst team I've ever made, this was built in a fit of rage so we would unban a certainly fire resistant + boom immune revenge killer) 1-0 tho... (replay also corrupted)
https://pokepast.es/4cabf1455c915b10 wanted to build with mix mence which is a cool mon replay
https://pokepast.es/509a8d007401f5eb not a good team but I will always try to make weather work replay
https://pokepast.es/3194491da1c1ea2c this team is also not good mainly because it's balance without any real identity or great synergy replay
https://pokepast.es/d60f3873bf71817e wanted to bring back the goat who remains UNDEFEATED (2-0) replay
https://pokepast.es/93e136a10f8756c4 mega doom but was carried by a sick sub salac garchomp set replay
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It's interesting to note that Psychic Noise does not block leftovers for some reason - however it is 5 turns long. Roost + Wisp + Psychic Noise + Filler honestly sounds kinda insane to me.
Nog Blog #5
We are so back. I've usually been spreading Heatran propaganda but it doesn't feel as great with so many good fighting and ground types running around (and no pult to check) so I'm going to spread Gliscor propganda.
Why He's "Him"
Defensive Checks:
There's so many more good mons in the tier that Gliscor is able to defensively check if not actually threaten them back. Basically anything that wants to run air balloon is already at risk of gliscor, but out of the upper tier of mons on the VR, being able to check Melmetal without getting twaved, Treads without caring about knock, and being one of the few things that can comfortably switch into Tusk.
Knock Absorb:
Arguably one of gliscor's most valuable traits is its ability to absorb knock off. Many knock off users (like gliscor...) are just trying to get rid of as many air balloons as they can so spikes and earthquakes can do more. Wanting to preserve a ground resist, teams really want to absorb a knock on a ground immunity without taking 25% or 50% from rocks every time they come in. Well that's what gliscor does. GG.
Movepool: Knock Off, Earthquake, Roost, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Toxic Spikes, Swords Dance, Facade, and U-Turn.
It's come up before but Knock + EQ is fantastic. Roost is obviously great. You have your choice of hazards. Can run something like U-Turn or Toxic if you want some more offensive pressure.
The most standard set is just Earthquake, Knock Off, Spikes/Rocks, Roost as this gives longevity and utility in hazards + knock and can threaten knocked mons with STAB earthquake.
Other sets are more niche like Swords Dance sets where you can run Earthquake, Swords Dance, Roost, Knock/Acrobatics. I prefer knock because you can actually get value out of it as a utility mon and check and as long as you're not revealing SD until after all their flying types are dead then it can still break teams decently well.
This will sound like a meme but it's also a really decent weather setter if you do want to run weather because it has that flexible movepool, can provide defensive checks against hard hitting ground types (particularly an issue on sun teams) and you can freely run a weather rock (though it will get knocked very quickly).
Though uncommon, I do think MG2 weather is fun to use and I've used Gliscor sets like:
EQ, Weather Move, Roost, and then you can flex in your knock, uturn, hazards in the last spot.
There's something nice about seeing your Iron Moth recover 99% in Sun.
We are so back. I've usually been spreading Heatran propaganda but it doesn't feel as great with so many good fighting and ground types running around (and no pult to check) so I'm going to spread Gliscor propganda.
Why He's "Him" Defensive Checks:
There's so many more good mons in the tier that Gliscor is able to defensively check if not actually threaten them back. Basically anything that wants to run air balloon is already at risk of gliscor, but out of the upper tier of mons on the VR, being able to check Melmetal without getting twaved, Treads without caring about knock, and being one of the few things that can comfortably switch into Tusk.
Knock Absorb:
Arguably one of gliscor's most valuable traits is its ability to absorb knock off. Many knock off users (like gliscor...) are just trying to get rid of as many air balloons as they can so spikes and earthquakes can do more. Wanting to preserve a ground resist, teams really want to absorb a knock on a ground immunity without taking 25% or 50% from rocks every time they come in. Well that's what gliscor does. GG.
Movepool: Knock Off, Earthquake, Roost, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Toxic Spikes, Swords Dance, Facade, and U-Turn.
It's come up before but Knock + EQ is fantastic. Roost is obviously great. You have your choice of hazards. Can run something like U-Turn or Toxic if you want some more offensive pressure.
The most standard set is just Earthquake, Knock Off, Spikes/Rocks, Roost as this gives longevity and utility in hazards + knock and can threaten knocked mons with STAB earthquake.
Other sets are more niche like Swords Dance sets where you can run Earthquake, Swords Dance, Roost, Knock/Acrobatics. I prefer knock because you can actually get value out of it as a utility mon and check and as long as you're not revealing SD until after all their flying types are dead then it can still break teams decently well.
This will sound like a meme but it's also a really decent weather setter if you do want to run weather because it has that flexible movepool, can provide defensive checks against hard hitting ground types (particularly an issue on sun teams) and you can freely run a weather rock (though it will get knocked very quickly).
Though uncommon, I do think MG2 weather is fun to use and I've used Gliscor sets like:
EQ, Weather Move, Roost, and then you can flex in your knock, uturn, hazards in the last spot.
There's something nice about seeing your Iron Moth recover 99% in Sun.
New MG2 VR Changes Version 3.5
These have the DLC 2 additions and a few changes, nothing absolutely massive so it's not being called its own version of a VR just a modified version of the last.
S Rank
Mew
A+ Rank
Iron Boulder NEW!
Melmetal
A Rank
Blacephalon
Heatran
Walking Wake
A- Rank
Iron Moth
Latias
Starmie
B Rank
Blissey
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Garganacl
Gholdengo
Glimmora
Gliscor
Great Tusk
Iron Treads
Kommo-o
Latios
Meowscarada
Raging Bolt NEW!
Roaring Moon NEW!
Slither Wing NEW!
Slowbro Galar
Sneasler
Suicune
Tapu Fini
Terrakion
Tyranitar
Volcanion
C Rank
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Archaludon NEW!
Celesteela
Chi Yu
Clodsire
Dhelmise
Diancie
Empoleon
Flutter Mane
Gastrodon
Genesect
Goodra Hisui
Greninja
Heracross
Hoopa U
Hydreigon
Kingambit
Kyurem
Landorus-Therian
Mandibuzz
Mantine
Metagross
Pecharunt NEW!
Raikou
Regieleki
Salamence
Samurott Hisui
Scream Tail
Sinistcha
Skarmory
Slowking Galar
Snorlax
Tentacruel
Toxapex
Urshifu Rapid Strike NEW!
Victini
Zapdos Galar
Changes:
Mew A -> S
Already great, with the previous Knock + Wisp + Spikes + Softboiled, now enjoy a dose of Psychic Noise!
Iron Boulder NEW -> A+
DLC2 gave us an obnoxiously strong and tanky sweeper that just happens to be faster than all but 3 ranked mons who are all in C.
Heatran A+ -> A
No more pult and more strong fighting and ground types in the meta gives Heatran less run of the field.
Terrakion A -> B
Boulder is basically just a faster version of Terrakion and with so much Walking Wake usage and teams set up to deal with Boulder, Terrakion struggles to find a real niche.
Ferrothorn A- -> B
Ferrothorn is running into a similar problem as Heatran is with lots of strong physical attackers that can hit it hard.
Raging Bolt NEW -> B
The first of several B ranked DLC2 mons, Raging Bolt is a solid setup CM sweeper with access to priority electric STAB with a special Dragon Hammer. Unfortunately, it's held back by the rising number of used ground types, its poor movepool, and low speed.
Roaring Moon NEW -> B
The prototype of the qsns strategy: fast mons with pivot. Roaring Moon is very fast, and has a pivot. Recovery doesn't hurt, but its lack of a physical STAB keeps it from being a massive threat.
Slither Wing NEW -> B
Interesting defensive typing, Slither Wing makes its money through access to everyone's favorite MG2 move Will-o-Wisp, and First Impression which gives it a 90bp STAB priority move on every turn. This is a mon that we could see rise up to A in the near future. It also benefits from being one of the few revenge killers for Boulder.
Chi Yu B -> C
What was once considered one of the more threatening sweepers in the game, Chi Yu has fallen out of favor considerable with teams shifting to become faster and more offensive, giving it less opportunities to set up.
Archaludon NEW -> C
Goodra-H but different I guess. More diverse movepool and stronger offensively I would imagine, but less defensively resiliant. This mon has received very little usage so it's too early to tell more.
Clodsire B -> C
Zeraora meta merchant.
Dhelmise B -> C
People have been caring less about spinning, and less about spinblocking as a result. Both of these trends hurts Dhelmise.
Gastrodon B -> C
Increased Gliscor usage has hurt Gastrodon who was once considered the premier Melmetal check long ago (people started running body slam Melmetal for it which still did not beat it so I don't know why), not to mention less fire spam and less Heatran as a whole gives Gastro less time to shine.
Goodra Hisui B -> C
Matchup fish monster, more STAB Earthquakes and Close Combats gives Hoodra less opportunities to setup.
Hoopa Unbound B -> C
Hoopa U was never good, I have no idea why my fellow council members put it C. Now that I've said that, I held back on saying that for Ferrothorn too but BOOM I told you so.
Hydrapple NEW -> C
Hydrapple, also known as Skymin matchup fish, seems a bit like Sinistcha but with different typing. Like Archaludon, there's not much usage to talk about in depth.
Kyurem B -> C
More scary fighting and rock types is a bad time for Kyurem, not to mention no more Bundle means there's not much desire to ever bring it.
Pecharunt NEW -> C
Interesting defensive typing and solid capabilities with air balloon, unfortunately it has an abysmal movepool that essentially forces Parting Shot + Recover and then two of either Ghost STAB, Poison STAB, or Foul Play.
Toxapex B -> C
What was always a solid wall has simply fallen off with stall teams caring more about stalk usage than recovery moves. It's also a bit limited in its total sets options, and is limited to Toxic Spikes for hazards.
Urshifu Rapid Strike UR -> C
Hits hard, decent speed, and has a pivot. Can you guess who likes to use this mon?
Arctozolt C -> UR
Azelf C -> UR
Corviknight C -> UR
Dragonite C -> UR
Iron Hands C -> UR
Jellicent C -> UR
Kartana C -> UR
Keldeo C -> UR
Ursaluna Bloodmoon C -> UR
These have the DLC 2 additions and a few changes, nothing absolutely massive so it's not being called its own version of a VR just a modified version of the last.
S Rank
MewA+ Rank
Iron Boulder NEW! MelmetalA Rank
Blacephalon Heatran Walking WakeA- Rank
Iron Moth Latias StarmieB Rank
Blissey Ferrothorn Garchomp Garganacl Gholdengo Glimmora Gliscor Great Tusk Iron Treads Kommo-o Latios Meowscarada Raging Bolt NEW! Roaring Moon NEW! Slither Wing NEW! Slowbro Galar Sneasler Suicune Tapu Fini Terrakion Tyranitar VolcanionC Rank
Aerodactyl Alakazam Archaludon NEW! Celesteela Chi Yu Clodsire Dhelmise Diancie Empoleon Flutter Mane Gastrodon Genesect Goodra Hisui Greninja Heracross Hoopa U Hydreigon Kingambit Kyurem Landorus-Therian Mandibuzz Mantine Metagross Pecharunt NEW! Raikou Regieleki Salamence Samurott Hisui Scream Tail Sinistcha Skarmory Slowking Galar Snorlax Tentacruel Toxapex Urshifu Rapid Strike NEW! Victini Zapdos GalarA+ Rank
Heatran
Melmetal
A Rank
Blacephalon
Mew
Terrakion
Walking Wake
A- Rank
Ferrothorn
Iron Moth
Latias
Starmie
B Rank
Blissey
Chi-Yu
Clodsire
Dhelmise
Garchomp
Garganacl
Gastrodon
Gholdengo
Glimmora
Gliscor
Goodra-Hisui
Hoopa-Unbound
Hydrapple NEW!
Kommo-o
Kyurem
Latios
Meowscarada
Galar Slowbro
Sneasler
Suicune
Tapu Fini
Toxapex
Iron Treads
Great Tusk
Tyranitar
Volcanion
Zapdos
C Rank
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Arctozolt
Azelf
Celesteela
Corviknight
Diancie
Dragonite
Empoleon
Flutter Mane
Genesect
Greninja
Mega Heracross
Hydreigon
Iron Hands
Jellicent
Kartana
Keldeo
Kingambit
Landorus-Therian
Mandibuzz
Mantine
Metagross
Raikou
Regieleki
Salamence
Samurott-Hisui
Scream Tail
Shaymin Sky
Sinistcha
Skarmory
Galar Slowking
Snorlax
Tentacruel
Ursaluna Bloodmoon
Victini
Galar Zapdos
Heatran MelmetalA Rank
Blacephalon Mew Terrakion Walking WakeA- Rank
Ferrothorn Iron Moth Latias StarmieB Rank
Blissey Chi-Yu Clodsire Dhelmise Garchomp Garganacl Gastrodon Gholdengo Glimmora Gliscor Goodra-Hisui Hoopa-Unbound Hydrapple NEW! Kommo-o Kyurem Latios Meowscarada Galar Slowbro Sneasler Suicune Tapu Fini Toxapex Iron Treads Great Tusk Tyranitar Volcanion ZapdosC Rank
Aerodactyl Alakazam Arctozolt Azelf Celesteela Corviknight Diancie Dragonite Empoleon Flutter Mane Genesect Greninja Mega Heracross Hydreigon Iron Hands Jellicent Kartana Keldeo Kingambit Landorus-Therian Mandibuzz Mantine Metagross Raikou Regieleki Salamence Samurott-Hisui Scream Tail Shaymin Sky Sinistcha Skarmory Galar Slowking Snorlax Tentacruel Ursaluna Bloodmoon Victini Galar ZapdosChanges:
Mew A -> SAlready great, with the previous Knock + Wisp + Spikes + Softboiled, now enjoy a dose of Psychic Noise!
Iron Boulder NEW -> A+DLC2 gave us an obnoxiously strong and tanky sweeper that just happens to be faster than all but 3 ranked mons who are all in C.
Heatran A+ -> ANo more pult and more strong fighting and ground types in the meta gives Heatran less run of the field.
Terrakion A -> BBoulder is basically just a faster version of Terrakion and with so much Walking Wake usage and teams set up to deal with Boulder, Terrakion struggles to find a real niche.
Ferrothorn A- -> BFerrothorn is running into a similar problem as Heatran is with lots of strong physical attackers that can hit it hard.
Raging Bolt NEW -> BThe first of several B ranked DLC2 mons, Raging Bolt is a solid setup CM sweeper with access to priority electric STAB with a special Dragon Hammer. Unfortunately, it's held back by the rising number of used ground types, its poor movepool, and low speed.
Roaring Moon NEW -> BThe prototype of the qsns strategy: fast mons with pivot. Roaring Moon is very fast, and has a pivot. Recovery doesn't hurt, but its lack of a physical STAB keeps it from being a massive threat.
Slither Wing NEW -> BInteresting defensive typing, Slither Wing makes its money through access to everyone's favorite MG2 move Will-o-Wisp, and First Impression which gives it a 90bp STAB priority move on every turn. This is a mon that we could see rise up to A in the near future. It also benefits from being one of the few revenge killers for Boulder.
Chi Yu B -> CWhat was once considered one of the more threatening sweepers in the game, Chi Yu has fallen out of favor considerable with teams shifting to become faster and more offensive, giving it less opportunities to set up.
Archaludon NEW -> CGoodra-H but different I guess. More diverse movepool and stronger offensively I would imagine, but less defensively resiliant. This mon has received very little usage so it's too early to tell more.
Clodsire B -> CZeraora meta merchant.
Dhelmise B -> CPeople have been caring less about spinning, and less about spinblocking as a result. Both of these trends hurts Dhelmise.
Gastrodon B -> CIncreased Gliscor usage has hurt Gastrodon who was once considered the premier Melmetal check long ago (people started running body slam Melmetal for it which still did not beat it so I don't know why), not to mention less fire spam and less Heatran as a whole gives Gastro less time to shine.
Goodra Hisui B -> CMatchup fish monster, more STAB Earthquakes and Close Combats gives Hoodra less opportunities to setup.
Hoopa Unbound B -> CHoopa U was never good, I have no idea why my fellow council members put it C. Now that I've said that, I held back on saying that for Ferrothorn too but BOOM I told you so.
Hydrapple NEW -> CHydrapple, also known as Skymin matchup fish, seems a bit like Sinistcha but with different typing. Like Archaludon, there's not much usage to talk about in depth.
Kyurem B -> CMore scary fighting and rock types is a bad time for Kyurem, not to mention no more Bundle means there's not much desire to ever bring it.
Pecharunt NEW -> CInteresting defensive typing and solid capabilities with air balloon, unfortunately it has an abysmal movepool that essentially forces Parting Shot + Recover and then two of either Ghost STAB, Poison STAB, or Foul Play.
Toxapex B -> CWhat was always a solid wall has simply fallen off with stall teams caring more about stalk usage than recovery moves. It's also a bit limited in its total sets options, and is limited to Toxic Spikes for hazards.
Urshifu Rapid Strike UR -> CHits hard, decent speed, and has a pivot. Can you guess who likes to use this mon?
Arctozolt C -> UR Azelf C -> UR Corviknight C -> UR Dragonite C -> UR Iron Hands C -> UR Jellicent C -> UR Kartana C -> UR Keldeo C -> UR Ursaluna Bloodmoon C -> UR
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Nog Blog #6
Yeah we are so back. If you are new and reading this, you should:
a) signup for the Solomod Team Tour and play MG2 which you can do here...
b) play Modern Gen 2 on ladder in like 2 days because right now its broken
This Nog Blog is on underrated mons in MG2. I'm not doing this off their spots on the VR but just how good I think they are compared to what I interpret the community's understanding on these mons.
Slither Wing
Slither Wing is not inherently busted on its own, but it really enjoys the current state of the meta and I find myself putting it on a decent number of teams (see both of my sample teams). It's main benefit is unique ability to consistently revenge the top 3 mons on the VR which are Mew, Iron Boulder, and Melmetal.
It has quite a bit of options that it can run where I think the only 100% forced to bring move is Close Combat.
I think my personal favorite set is:
Close Combat, First Impression, U-Turn, and Morning Sun with Heavy-Duty Boots. This set gives First Impression to actually threaten to revenge Mew and Boulder while also giving U-Turn to apply pressure during the mid game. Morning Sun is a fine last just for sustainability, though it is certainly replaceable. You can also choose to run Wisp on this set replacing either First Impression or U-Turn.
Another viable option is its wincon set:
Close Combat, First Impression, Bulk Up, Morning Sun with Heavy-Duty Boots. Basically this set just trades out turn for sweeping pressure. You can also replace boots with lum or leftovers if you want, both certainly have uses. Lum lets you set up on mew as first impression is still a roll to kill at +1.
Shaymin Sky
A mon that I think has been incredibly underrated since the dawn of MG2 and I had to fight for it to get ranked on the last VR is Skymin. Incredibly quick with a strong STAB and ok defensive typing certainly gives it a place in the meta.
Its main set you should be running on it is the standard sub leech set:
Seed Flare, Leech Seed, Substitute, Protect with Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots. I've experimented quite a bit between boots and leftovers but have yet to come to a consensus "best" item. Leftovers is great to guarantee the ability to stay behind your substitute and constantly be regenerating HP, but boots lets you come in more. It's also not a massive difference as depending on how aggressively you play with Skymin, you can get knocked somewhat easily coming in on many of the ground types. What makes this set so good is that 90% of the Pokemon literally cannot get Skymin out from behind its substitute as they are either slower or do not have a phazing move. The only real weakness to this set is that leech seed works differently in Gen 2 and they are only damaged after clicking a move, so in theory you can just infinitely switch, getting rid of the seeds, while not taking any damage. This essentially forces Skymin to be played with hazards up or else you lose most of your utility.
Alternative sets usually are Heavy-Duty Boots sets with Seed Flare, Synthesis, an offensive move like HP Ice or Earth Power, and Leech Seed.
Skymin comes in on Turn 10 and doesn't leave until Turn 27 and that was voluntary - Skymin Replay
Kommo-o
Kommo is a mon that I think everyone somewhat realizes is a threat but is just underutilized and underprepped that whenever it is used, it usually just wins. Its only real limitations are that it requires setup to be a real threat and only really fits on Hyper Offense teams.
The most commonly used set is its standard setup:
Clanging Scales, Clangorous Soulblaze, Close Combat, Rest with Chesto Berry. This set you just click Soublaze and become almost impossible to kill. Nothing outspeeds you after Soulblaze and nothing OHKOs you from neutral so setting up and getting a rest off is always free. From there you just get to click your buttons and win.
You can also run offmeta sets like Belly Drum with Sub Salac which is fun to use but does not feel as effective as its not as durable.
Melmetal
How can a mon ranked A+ be underrated? Melmetal is so ridiculously good that you can put it on literally every team and every single game its useful. Balloon steels are potentially the best category of mons in MG2 and Melm is the king of them all. It's so incredibly durable as its only weak to Fighting and Fire, and with its ridiculous 135 hp 143 defense it easily eats +2 non-STAB CCs.
There is one set and only one set for Melmetal:
Double Iron Bash, Thunder Wave, Sleep Talk, Rest.
This is the only set you'll ever need. Bash is the high damaging STAB, and with twave, paraflinch is a very real threat even for Melmetal soft checks like Skarmory. Sleep Talk and Rest not only provide recovery and can still discourage switch-ins while its asleep, but it also deals with Melm's biggest weakness which is that Bash only has 8pp.
In conclusion, you can put Melmetal on literally every team and it will be an integral part of your defensive structure. Shoutout GSC mechanics where steel resists ghost and dark.
Yeah we are so back. If you are new and reading this, you should:
a) signup for the Solomod Team Tour and play MG2 which you can do here...
b) play Modern Gen 2 on ladder in like 2 days because right now its broken
This Nog Blog is on underrated mons in MG2. I'm not doing this off their spots on the VR but just how good I think they are compared to what I interpret the community's understanding on these mons.
Slither Wing Slither Wing is not inherently busted on its own, but it really enjoys the current state of the meta and I find myself putting it on a decent number of teams (see both of my sample teams). It's main benefit is unique ability to consistently revenge the top 3 mons on the VR which are Mew, Iron Boulder, and Melmetal.
It has quite a bit of options that it can run where I think the only 100% forced to bring move is Close Combat.
I think my personal favorite set is:
Close Combat, First Impression, U-Turn, and Morning Sun with Heavy-Duty Boots. This set gives First Impression to actually threaten to revenge Mew and Boulder while also giving U-Turn to apply pressure during the mid game. Morning Sun is a fine last just for sustainability, though it is certainly replaceable. You can also choose to run Wisp on this set replacing either First Impression or U-Turn.
Another viable option is its wincon set:
Close Combat, First Impression, Bulk Up, Morning Sun with Heavy-Duty Boots. Basically this set just trades out turn for sweeping pressure. You can also replace boots with lum or leftovers if you want, both certainly have uses. Lum lets you set up on mew as first impression is still a roll to kill at +1.
Shaymin Sky A mon that I think has been incredibly underrated since the dawn of MG2 and I had to fight for it to get ranked on the last VR is Skymin. Incredibly quick with a strong STAB and ok defensive typing certainly gives it a place in the meta.
Its main set you should be running on it is the standard sub leech set:
Seed Flare, Leech Seed, Substitute, Protect with Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots. I've experimented quite a bit between boots and leftovers but have yet to come to a consensus "best" item. Leftovers is great to guarantee the ability to stay behind your substitute and constantly be regenerating HP, but boots lets you come in more. It's also not a massive difference as depending on how aggressively you play with Skymin, you can get knocked somewhat easily coming in on many of the ground types. What makes this set so good is that 90% of the Pokemon literally cannot get Skymin out from behind its substitute as they are either slower or do not have a phazing move. The only real weakness to this set is that leech seed works differently in Gen 2 and they are only damaged after clicking a move, so in theory you can just infinitely switch, getting rid of the seeds, while not taking any damage. This essentially forces Skymin to be played with hazards up or else you lose most of your utility.
Alternative sets usually are Heavy-Duty Boots sets with Seed Flare, Synthesis, an offensive move like HP Ice or Earth Power, and Leech Seed.
Skymin comes in on Turn 10 and doesn't leave until Turn 27 and that was voluntary - Skymin Replay
Kommo-o Kommo is a mon that I think everyone somewhat realizes is a threat but is just underutilized and underprepped that whenever it is used, it usually just wins. Its only real limitations are that it requires setup to be a real threat and only really fits on Hyper Offense teams.
The most commonly used set is its standard setup:
Clanging Scales, Clangorous Soulblaze, Close Combat, Rest with Chesto Berry. This set you just click Soublaze and become almost impossible to kill. Nothing outspeeds you after Soulblaze and nothing OHKOs you from neutral so setting up and getting a rest off is always free. From there you just get to click your buttons and win.
You can also run offmeta sets like Belly Drum with Sub Salac which is fun to use but does not feel as effective as its not as durable.
Melmetal How can a mon ranked A+ be underrated? Melmetal is so ridiculously good that you can put it on literally every team and every single game its useful. Balloon steels are potentially the best category of mons in MG2 and Melm is the king of them all. It's so incredibly durable as its only weak to Fighting and Fire, and with its ridiculous 135 hp 143 defense it easily eats +2 non-STAB CCs.
There is one set and only one set for Melmetal:
Double Iron Bash, Thunder Wave, Sleep Talk, Rest.
This is the only set you'll ever need. Bash is the high damaging STAB, and with twave, paraflinch is a very real threat even for Melmetal soft checks like Skarmory. Sleep Talk and Rest not only provide recovery and can still discourage switch-ins while its asleep, but it also deals with Melm's biggest weakness which is that Bash only has 8pp.
In conclusion, you can put Melmetal on literally every team and it will be an integral part of your defensive structure. Shoutout GSC mechanics where steel resists ghost and dark.
So happy we got a season spotlight! Congrats for us! 
I think i'll unfortunately be skipping the tour over concerns with real life and not feeling capable of comitting to it, that said, I wish the best for everyone who's competing. This tier has taken a few turns from what I remember a few months back, and am eager to re-experience it on ladder.
RIP Pult, i guess you won't be missed.
Also free zyg
I think i'll unfortunately be skipping the tour over concerns with real life and not feeling capable of comitting to it, that said, I wish the best for everyone who's competing. This tier has taken a few turns from what I remember a few months back, and am eager to re-experience it on ladder.
RIP Pult, i guess you won't be missed.
Also free zyg
Nog Blog #7
Uh yeah, MG2 time. This has usage stats, lead stats, and, oh yeah, a teambuilding checklist so you can beat ME in solomodpl. You're welcome. Also play MG2 ladder.
December 18, 2023 (oldest game we have before replays were wiped) - April 14, 2024 usage stats
MG2 Usage
MG2 Leads
Who the hell was using Simipour?
Teambuilding Checklist
This is a list of general things you want to be able to deal with whether you're building offense, stall, or balance.
These first three are on 3 of the top ranked mons in the tier who I think deserve their own section, though the other top mons are included in broader sections.
Mew
This guy is actually nuts, there's a good reason mew is currently ranked the undisputed best mon in the tier. In spite of the fact mew is broken, you need less of a concrete plan for mew than you do for others mons on this list. It gets status'd, knocked, and chipped fairly regularly so wearing it down isn't always the biggest deal, but you do need a wisp switch in and something that doesn't really care about psychic noise.
Walky Wake
Let me know if you discover a good wake switch in because I'm still looking. Very little actually deals with Wake consistently over the course of a game. The main Wake set is just Pump, Draco, Flip, and Flamethrower/Knock. Some mons have a niche of checking one of the two sets (Mantine checks flamethrower Wake but not Knock) while something like Ferrothorn can check Knock but not Flamethrower.
Several of the more common Wake checks are: Celebi, Empoleon, and Fini. Offensive teams can really struggle against Wake as many of the faster mons you find on offense can't switch in and are either OHKOd or 2HKOd but are slower. There's also not much that's faster and can revenge effectively.
Iron Boulder
Boulder is also pretty nuts. I think a dedicated boulder check is technically less necessary than a wake check, provided enough of your team is hostile to a boulder switch in. Take my Talon sample team for example which consists of
There's really nothing on this team that Boulder can confidently set up on, and while there's not a great switch in, you still have a great revenge option with Slither Wing, Talonflame wisp/u-turn if necessary, and even your own boulder to try to win a tie. That being said, if you can chuck on a Great Tusk or Slither Wing, it makes the boulder matchup much better.
This next section covers probably the three most commonly used, albeit broad, descriptors in mg2.
Balloon Steels
Probably the most iconic and defining trait of MG2 is the fact that balloon isn't popped, making steel types (who in gen 2 resist dark and ghost) that much better. For most steel types with balloon, they become only weak to fighting and fire types, until their balloon is knocked. Having a way to deal with balloon steel types is essential for making progress as you'll find a balloon steel on basically every team you're up against, whether its an offensive Heatran or a Gholdengo on stall.
The commonality of air balloon in general has led to a misconception that ground types are bad and useless, but this couldn't be further from the truth. In most OU tiers, flying types or levitate users are considered near essential in order to have some sort of eq switch in. Teams that run balloon steels as their only answer to eq users are in for trouble when paired against the many knock + eq users like Tusk and Gliscor. Fighting types as balloon answers are less effective due to their inability to hit Gholdengo, meaning that knock + eq and fire types are the most effective, something also seen in the tiers usage stats above.
Fire Types
Partly because of how strong the balloon steels are, fire types are incredibly valuable, and I'll admit I used to say were absolutely mandatory on every MG2 team. The main fire types to consider are Blacephalon, Heatran, and Iron Moth, though Volcanion has seen a notable increase in popularity. With a 120bp STAB fire blast, it's not really any wonder why some teams stack multiple fire types in a sort of "fire spam" team. Combined with the fact that Blacephalon, Heatran, and even Volcanion have access to explosion, eliminating their main fire type switch in (usually a bulky water type) opens the door for your second and even third fire type to wreck havoc.
I'm not saying that you need to have multiple checks for the top tier fire types in the tier, but it certainly doesn't hurt having secondary checks. One thing to consider is that the main weakness of fire types is being forced to decide between balloon for the ground immunity or boots to avoid the 25% rocks (although not for Heatran).
Bulky Waters
Something that you may have noticed is that fire types, wake, and even melmetal switch ins can usually be condensed into one role: the bulky water. These provide outstanding durability and can check multiple top threats in the tier. One of my favorites is Empoleon who, although cannot really switch into STAB fire blasts, combines bulky water with being one of the pinnacle wake checks, stealth rocks, solid recovery, additional utility moves in knock, roar, and flip turn, and oh yeah, it's a balloon steel type.
Teams that are unable to actually break through bulky waters in a max DV format will simply lose from the teambuilder. If you cannot 3hko a Tapu Fini, you simply will lose the game. Like Mew however, even if there aren't that many viable mons that can clean through bulky waters, they're usually heavily dependent on their recovery and do not have a rock resist, meaning pivoting well can quickly wear down these waters. In short: outplay your opponent. Or just bring psychic noise mew.
Setup and Unprepared Mons
Great, you've solved the tier. You've managed to build a team that can confidently deal with everything above. Unfortunately this isn't RBY and there's more than 10 viable mons. There's always going to be off-meta, unorthodoxed, or underused mons that you can lose to from lead. While having a solidly constructed team will usually give you an answer or two to unique offensive sweepers (like Iron Head Mega Salamence...), certain matchups will certainly be near impossible to win unless you dedicate specific moveslots to being prepared for the unexpected.
There are three main "solutions" to being prepared for off-meta mons.
1. Speed
You will always have losing matchups against certain Pokemon/sets no matter what your team is, so being able to stop the bleeding by threatening to revenge is a key part of any team. One of the reasons that Skymin is viable now is that it's one of the few Iron Boulder revenge options in the tier. Having speed on a team, or in the case of Slither Wing having priority, to revenge or force out bad matchups is incredibly useful. However, having a dedicated "fastmon" on slower teams will not always work if they have a bad matchup.
2. Phazing
Having bulkier mons that can confidently take neutral hits while forcing out setup mons is incredibly useful for dealing with sweepers, or scouting them out. It's very useful to know early on in the game if they have an opposing suicune. It is important to note that phazing becomes useless once you kill the other 5, so if your only suicune check is to phaze it out, you're in trouble. That being said, phazing is great particularly against the bulkier setups who can't burst you down while roaring, and it's great in the midgame for scouting and building up hazard damage.
3. Explosion
The game saving move, explosion can solve all your problems in one go. When building offense, I think explosion is almost a necessity to guarantee that some progress can be made, but it also serves to deal with bulky setup mons like suicune. Explosion's main weaknesses is that it's usually pretty predictable (though can still be difficult to play around) and you can switch into a normal resist. One of the reasons that Blacephalon is so good is that the common steel and somewhat frequented ghost types are the two most common explosion switch ins, though both get decimated by stabs, leaving the uncommon rock type as the only confident Blacephalon switch in.
Other Good Moves to Include
Hazards are pretty much mandatory. They make progress much easier against fatter teams and even against offense where there's not a large amount of switching they can bring mons into revenge range or at least increase roll probabilities
Knock is also good for enabling hazards to build up damage, reduce recovery from leftovers, and in the case of balloon steels, and get rid of ground immunities as a general boon.
Spin is useful though it's definitely not as splashable as the other two. The main spinner in usage is Starmie who provides solid utility outside of spin but is still much harder to fit on teams than rocks are.
"Stall breaking moves" is really general and not that frequent but being able to bring a Psychic Noise user, or an encore user, or even a taunt user (buff taunt when) makes dealing with stall that much easier when you can stop them from spamming rest.
Wisp is busted so yeah just chuck that on and you should be set.
Shoutout 3MoreMinutes for being like 1 1/2 years early on the Talonflame hype train.
Uh yeah, MG2 time. This has usage stats, lead stats, and, oh yeah, a teambuilding checklist so you can beat ME in solomodpl. You're welcome. Also play MG2 ladder.
December 18, 2023 (oldest game we have before replays were wiped) - April 14, 2024 usage stats
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Mew | 37 | 42.05% | 48.65% |
| 2 | Walking Wake | 25 | 28.41% | 56.00% |
| 2 | Iron Boulder | 25 | 28.41% | 44.00% |
| 4 | Melmetal | 21 | 23.86% | 61.90% |
| 5 | Heatran | 19 | 21.59% | 42.11% |
| 5 | Great Tusk | 19 | 21.59% | 36.84% |
| 7 | Garchomp | 18 | 20.45% | 66.67% |
| 8 | Iron Moth | 17 | 19.32% | 35.29% |
| 9 | Gliscor | 15 | 17.05% | 53.33% |
| 10 | Blacephalon | 14 | 15.91% | 35.71% |
| 11 | Starmie | 12 | 13.64% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Slither Wing | 11 | 12.50% | 63.64% |
| 12 | Tyranitar | 11 | 12.50% | 27.27% |
| 14 | Empoleon | 10 | 11.36% | 80.00% |
| 14 | Shaymin-Sky | 10 | 11.36% | 50.00% |
| 14 | Gholdengo | 10 | 11.36% | 50.00% |
| 14 | Volcanion | 10 | 11.36% | 40.00% |
| 14 | Glimmora | 10 | 11.36% | 20.00% |
| 19 | Salamence | 9 | 10.23% | 44.44% |
| 20 | Suicune | 8 | 9.09% | 50.00% |
| 20 | Raging Bolt | 8 | 9.09% | 25.00% |
| 22 | Talonflame | 7 | 7.95% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Zapdos | 7 | 7.95% | 71.43% |
| 22 | Meowscarada | 7 | 7.95% | 57.14% |
| 25 | Diancie | 6 | 6.82% | 66.67% |
| 26 | Tapu Fini | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 26 | Iron Treads | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 26 | Ferrothorn | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 26 | Roaring Moon | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 26 | Tapu Bulu | 5 | 5.68% | 0.00% |
| 31 | Flutter Mane | 4 | 4.55% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Latios | 4 | 4.55% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Chi-Yu | 4 | 4.55% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Moltres | 4 | 4.55% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Greninja | 4 | 4.55% | 0.00% |
| 31 | Pecharunt | 4 | 4.55% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Blissey | 3 | 3.41% | 100.00% |
| 37 | Urshifu | 3 | 3.41% | 100.00% |
| 37 | Azelf | 3 | 3.41% | 66.67% |
| 37 | Archaludon | 3 | 3.41% | 66.67% |
| 37 | Genesect | 3 | 3.41% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Kyurem-Black | 3 | 3.41% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Skarmory | 3 | 3.41% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Celebi | 3 | 3.41% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Articuno | 3 | 3.41% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Gardevoir | 3 | 3.41% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Garganacl | 3 | 3.41% | 0.00% |
| 48 | Mantine | 2 | 2.27% | 100.00% |
| 48 | Lucario | 2 | 2.27% | 100.00% |
| 48 | Regieleki | 2 | 2.27% | 100.00% |
| 48 | Hippowdon | 2 | 2.27% | 100.00% |
| 48 | Froslass | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Latias | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Camerupt | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Celesteela | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Hydreigon | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Toxapex | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Sneasler | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Zapdos-Galar | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 48 | Haxorus | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 48 | Hatterene | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 48 | Kommo-o | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 48 | Slowbro | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 48 | Hydrapple | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Falinks | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Kingambit | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Archeops | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Terrakion | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Zygarde-10% | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Ting-Lu | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Ceruledge | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Zeraora | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Swampert | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Heracross | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Shuckle | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Hoopa-Unbound | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Cyclizar | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Banette | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Houndoom | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Jirachi | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Samurott-Hisui | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Tornadus-Therian | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Landorus-Therian | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Electrode-Hisui | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Victini | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Fezandipiti | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Thundurus-Therian | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Golisopod | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Necrozma | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Deoxys-Defense | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Kartana | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Gastrodon | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Alakazam | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Mandibuzz | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Snorlax | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Umbreon | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Gengar | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Absol | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Kyurem | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Enamorus | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Simipour | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Slowking-Galar | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Oricorio | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Mew | 18 | 20.45% | 44.44% |
| 2 | Glimmora | 10 | 11.36% | 20.00% |
| 3 | Talonflame | 7 | 7.95% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Meowscarada | 7 | 7.95% | 57.14% |
| 5 | Gliscor | 5 | 5.68% | 60.00% |
| 5 | Roaring Moon | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 7 | Garchomp | 4 | 4.55% | 50.00% |
| 7 | Great Tusk | 4 | 4.55% | 25.00% |
| 7 | Blacephalon | 4 | 4.55% | 25.00% |
| 10 | Froslass | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Haxorus | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Latios | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Azelf | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Diancie | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Blissey | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Lucario | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Walking Wake | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Ting-Lu | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Zeraora | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Shuckle | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Jirachi | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Samurott-Hisui | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Landorus-Therian | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Archaludon | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Slither Wing | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Deoxys-Defense | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Kartana | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Greninja | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Snorlax | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Kommo-o | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Simipour | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |Who the hell was using Simipour?
Teambuilding Checklist
This is a list of general things you want to be able to deal with whether you're building offense, stall, or balance.
These first three are on 3 of the top ranked mons in the tier who I think deserve their own section, though the other top mons are included in broader sections.
Mew This guy is actually nuts, there's a good reason mew is currently ranked the undisputed best mon in the tier. In spite of the fact mew is broken, you need less of a concrete plan for mew than you do for others mons on this list. It gets status'd, knocked, and chipped fairly regularly so wearing it down isn't always the biggest deal, but you do need a wisp switch in and something that doesn't really care about psychic noise.
Walky Wake Let me know if you discover a good wake switch in because I'm still looking. Very little actually deals with Wake consistently over the course of a game. The main Wake set is just Pump, Draco, Flip, and Flamethrower/Knock. Some mons have a niche of checking one of the two sets (Mantine checks flamethrower Wake but not Knock) while something like Ferrothorn can check Knock but not Flamethrower.
Several of the more common Wake checks are: Celebi, Empoleon, and Fini. Offensive teams can really struggle against Wake as many of the faster mons you find on offense can't switch in and are either OHKOd or 2HKOd but are slower. There's also not much that's faster and can revenge effectively.
Iron Boulder Boulder is also pretty nuts. I think a dedicated boulder check is technically less necessary than a wake check, provided enough of your team is hostile to a boulder switch in. Take my Talon sample team for example which consists of
There's really nothing on this team that Boulder can confidently set up on, and while there's not a great switch in, you still have a great revenge option with Slither Wing, Talonflame wisp/u-turn if necessary, and even your own boulder to try to win a tie. That being said, if you can chuck on a Great Tusk or Slither Wing, it makes the boulder matchup much better.
This next section covers probably the three most commonly used, albeit broad, descriptors in mg2.
Balloon Steels Probably the most iconic and defining trait of MG2 is the fact that balloon isn't popped, making steel types (who in gen 2 resist dark and ghost) that much better. For most steel types with balloon, they become only weak to fighting and fire types, until their balloon is knocked. Having a way to deal with balloon steel types is essential for making progress as you'll find a balloon steel on basically every team you're up against, whether its an offensive Heatran or a Gholdengo on stall.
The commonality of air balloon in general has led to a misconception that ground types are bad and useless, but this couldn't be further from the truth. In most OU tiers, flying types or levitate users are considered near essential in order to have some sort of eq switch in. Teams that run balloon steels as their only answer to eq users are in for trouble when paired against the many knock + eq users like Tusk and Gliscor. Fighting types as balloon answers are less effective due to their inability to hit Gholdengo, meaning that knock + eq and fire types are the most effective, something also seen in the tiers usage stats above.
Fire Types Partly because of how strong the balloon steels are, fire types are incredibly valuable, and I'll admit I used to say were absolutely mandatory on every MG2 team. The main fire types to consider are Blacephalon, Heatran, and Iron Moth, though Volcanion has seen a notable increase in popularity. With a 120bp STAB fire blast, it's not really any wonder why some teams stack multiple fire types in a sort of "fire spam" team. Combined with the fact that Blacephalon, Heatran, and even Volcanion have access to explosion, eliminating their main fire type switch in (usually a bulky water type) opens the door for your second and even third fire type to wreck havoc.
I'm not saying that you need to have multiple checks for the top tier fire types in the tier, but it certainly doesn't hurt having secondary checks. One thing to consider is that the main weakness of fire types is being forced to decide between balloon for the ground immunity or boots to avoid the 25% rocks (although not for Heatran).
Bulky Waters Something that you may have noticed is that fire types, wake, and even melmetal switch ins can usually be condensed into one role: the bulky water. These provide outstanding durability and can check multiple top threats in the tier. One of my favorites is Empoleon who, although cannot really switch into STAB fire blasts, combines bulky water with being one of the pinnacle wake checks, stealth rocks, solid recovery, additional utility moves in knock, roar, and flip turn, and oh yeah, it's a balloon steel type.
Teams that are unable to actually break through bulky waters in a max DV format will simply lose from the teambuilder. If you cannot 3hko a Tapu Fini, you simply will lose the game. Like Mew however, even if there aren't that many viable mons that can clean through bulky waters, they're usually heavily dependent on their recovery and do not have a rock resist, meaning pivoting well can quickly wear down these waters. In short: outplay your opponent. Or just bring psychic noise mew.
Setup and Unprepared Mons Great, you've solved the tier. You've managed to build a team that can confidently deal with everything above. Unfortunately this isn't RBY and there's more than 10 viable mons. There's always going to be off-meta, unorthodoxed, or underused mons that you can lose to from lead. While having a solidly constructed team will usually give you an answer or two to unique offensive sweepers (like Iron Head Mega Salamence...), certain matchups will certainly be near impossible to win unless you dedicate specific moveslots to being prepared for the unexpected.
There are three main "solutions" to being prepared for off-meta mons.
1. Speed
You will always have losing matchups against certain Pokemon/sets no matter what your team is, so being able to stop the bleeding by threatening to revenge is a key part of any team. One of the reasons that Skymin is viable now is that it's one of the few Iron Boulder revenge options in the tier. Having speed on a team, or in the case of Slither Wing having priority, to revenge or force out bad matchups is incredibly useful. However, having a dedicated "fastmon" on slower teams will not always work if they have a bad matchup.
2. Phazing
Having bulkier mons that can confidently take neutral hits while forcing out setup mons is incredibly useful for dealing with sweepers, or scouting them out. It's very useful to know early on in the game if they have an opposing suicune. It is important to note that phazing becomes useless once you kill the other 5, so if your only suicune check is to phaze it out, you're in trouble. That being said, phazing is great particularly against the bulkier setups who can't burst you down while roaring, and it's great in the midgame for scouting and building up hazard damage.
3. Explosion
The game saving move, explosion can solve all your problems in one go. When building offense, I think explosion is almost a necessity to guarantee that some progress can be made, but it also serves to deal with bulky setup mons like suicune. Explosion's main weaknesses is that it's usually pretty predictable (though can still be difficult to play around) and you can switch into a normal resist. One of the reasons that Blacephalon is so good is that the common steel and somewhat frequented ghost types are the two most common explosion switch ins, though both get decimated by stabs, leaving the uncommon rock type as the only confident Blacephalon switch in.
Other Good Moves to Include
Hazards are pretty much mandatory. They make progress much easier against fatter teams and even against offense where there's not a large amount of switching they can bring mons into revenge range or at least increase roll probabilities
Knock is also good for enabling hazards to build up damage, reduce recovery from leftovers, and in the case of balloon steels, and get rid of ground immunities as a general boon.
Spin is useful though it's definitely not as splashable as the other two. The main spinner in usage is Starmie who provides solid utility outside of spin but is still much harder to fit on teams than rocks are.
"Stall breaking moves" is really general and not that frequent but being able to bring a Psychic Noise user, or an encore user, or even a taunt user (buff taunt when) makes dealing with stall that much easier when you can stop them from spamming rest.
Wisp is busted so yeah just chuck that on and you should be set.
Shoutout 3MoreMinutes for being like 1 1/2 years early on the Talonflame hype train.
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Nog Blog #8
This post is going to be about the lead metagame as suggested by Charliezard7. Brief disclaimer that I noticed one or two replays were missing from the usage stats in last post but they have been updated, hopefully correctly this time.
Current MG2 Lead Usage
Beginning of Gen 9 to September 3, 2023 Lead Usage
Types of Leads
I think there's five main groups of leads which are: Mew, Mew Deterrents, Offensive Pressure Leads, and "Leads Who Get 'Em Up." I also think that they're roughly in order of viability with Mew lead being the best lead and "leads who get em up" being the worst.
Mew
Hopefully not too hard to figure this one out, but based on some of the conversations that I've had with some of you, I'm not sure it's a guarantee.
Mew is obviously really strong, and it doesn't even have to be put in the lead. It's the #1 ranked mon in the tier though so it's not really a surprise to see it here. Looking at the older lead usage, you see Bundle, Pult, and Mew in the top three spots, and I believe they were at the time ranked the top three mons in the tier. What makes Mew so good is that very little can kill it, even Dragapult shadow ball was a 2HKO roll with leftovers. It also gets access to nearly every move in the game meaning, while you can usually guess their set, there's still no guarantee you're right. Assuming you're not running double hazard lead mew, you can put on spikes or rocks depending on what hazard setter you're pairing it with.
The consensus Mew best set has been:
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic Noise
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes
- Soft-Boiled
This set basically gets to set up spikes and gets to click wisp and prevents them from using rest. It's very predictable yet it's hard to build against it without hamstringing yourself. With max DV bulk, it's really hard to deal with Mew, especially when 2/3 of the super-effective types against it are neutralized by wisp, and non-STAB foul play doesn't 2HKO. The main way of dealing with Mew is by chipping it through hazards where 3HKOs can turn into 2HKO rolls, but when it's in the lead spot you don't have that luxury. Usually the most difficult times of dealing with Mew is the first few turns until you can force it out and set up hazards.
Mew Deterrents
If Mew is so good, and the most common lead, it only makes sense for other leads to be prepared for it. Being able to force out that Mew and set up hazards of your own makes dealing with it over the course of a long game that much better, especially if you're able to maintain momentum and a hazard advantage for several turns.
The issue? Not too much really beats it as discussed before. I think Meowscarada is the best example of this, being able to outspeed, set up your own hazards, and threaten a 2HKO on Mew. Something like Blacephalon can be threatening to Mew as it also 2HKOs and outspeeds, but it forces you to either run Lum or be prepared to win a 50/50 with substitute vs wisp or clicking shadow ball against psychic noise. You could also very reasonably put Blacephalon in the next tier of "offensive pressure." Kingambit is another example of a Mew counterlead, arguably better than Meowscarada because it tends to run rest so getting wisped isn't as much of an issue. Recently used to great success against Mew lead was Froslass who has a faster taunt, taking away hazards, recovery, and status from Mew. It also gets to ignore booms from suicide lead Mews, though it does need to be careful of the somewhat outdated Flame Charge Mew lead. Though much less common than they were in Gen 8 MG2, fast taunt leads would still be effective provided then can endure several psychic noises while needing to reapply the two turn taunt.
Offensive Pressure
Typically these are similar mons to the "Mew Deterrents" but they lose to Mew instead of beating them. I think an interesting example of this which I have actually not gotten to try myself is substitute Great Tusk which tries to gain a favorable matchup, especially against Glimmora lead, and be incredibly difficult to root out from behind a substitute, at the very least getting a free knock. Teams that use an offensive pressure mon need to still be able to force Mew out relatively quickly, these are the teams that can really struggle against Mew. Previously Bundle was a good example of this, you could argue Dragapult fit into either this or "Mew Deterrent."
Leads Who Get 'Em Up 
Guys who get to click their rocks move. Usually suicide leads, though they don't have to be. These are leads that say "I don't really care what you're leading, I'm clicking rocks." I'm not a huge fan of these leads, particularly suicide leads mainly because of their execution. I understand the concept of trying to get up your hazards, but I think people take the concept of suicide lead too literally. If you can only get up one layer of hazards, get up that layer and then switch out. If they have a gliscor lead into your glimmora and you get knocked, go into your Wake and then just flip turn back to it. There's this obsession with never switching out of your "suicide lead" even if preserving it makes the most sense. Leads Who Get 'Em Up are fine but they usually just don't have great matchups into Mew.
Misc Leads aka Bad Leads
Basically if your lead doesn't fall into one of the above categories, it's probably bad! Even if it's serving some niche purpose (like my beloved Sun Stone Gliscor lead) it's more often than not just going to have to switch out T1 and provide momentum. That doesn't mean you shouldn't innovate, however. Although our lead meta is currently heavily focused around Mew, innovation is key as it (hopefully) brings us to a meta where we are not focused around lead mew. Maybe we're still waiting for the best lead mon to be discovered. You never know, it might be Mega Audino. In a world where Pikachu World has a 50% winrate in MG2, anything is possible...
This post is going to be about the lead metagame as suggested by Charliezard7. Brief disclaimer that I noticed one or two replays were missing from the usage stats in last post but they have been updated, hopefully correctly this time.
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Mew | 18 | 20.45% | 44.44% |
| 2 | Glimmora | 10 | 11.36% | 20.00% |
| 3 | Talonflame | 7 | 7.95% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Meowscarada | 7 | 7.95% | 57.14% |
| 5 | Gliscor | 5 | 5.68% | 60.00% |
| 5 | Roaring Moon | 5 | 5.68% | 40.00% |
| 7 | Garchomp | 4 | 4.55% | 50.00% |
| 7 | Great Tusk | 4 | 4.55% | 25.00% |
| 7 | Blacephalon | 4 | 4.55% | 25.00% |
| 10 | Froslass | 2 | 2.27% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Haxorus | 2 | 2.27% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Latios | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Azelf | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Diancie | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Blissey | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Lucario | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Walking Wake | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Ting-Lu | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Zeraora | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Shuckle | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Jirachi | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Samurott-Hisui | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Landorus-Therian | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Archaludon | 1 | 1.14% | 100.00% |
| 12 | Slither Wing | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Deoxys-Defense | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Kartana | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Greninja | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Snorlax | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Kommo-o | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
| 12 | Simipour | 1 | 1.14% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Iron Bundle | 52 | 17.69% | 63.46% |
| 2 | Dragapult | 41 | 13.95% | 43.90% |
| 3 | Mew | 30 | 10.20% | 60.00% |
| 4 | Zeraora | 17 | 5.78% | 58.82% |
| 5 | Ferrothorn | 13 | 4.42% | 38.46% |
| 5 | Heatran | 13 | 4.42% | 23.08% |
| 7 | Samurott-Hisui | 12 | 4.08% | 41.67% |
| 8 | Ribombee | 9 | 3.06% | 11.11% |
| 9 | Blissey | 8 | 2.72% | 87.50% |
| 9 | Starmie | 8 | 2.72% | 62.50% |
| 9 | Iron Treads | 8 | 2.72% | 12.50% |
| 12 | Skarmory | 6 | 2.04% | 33.33% |
| 12 | Kingambit | 6 | 2.04% | 33.33% |
| 14 | Garganacl | 5 | 1.70% | 60.00% |
| 15 | Iron Valiant | 4 | 1.36% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Jirachi | 4 | 1.36% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Araquanid | 3 | 1.02% | 100.00% |
| 17 | Latias | 3 | 1.02% | 100.00% |
| 17 | Moltres | 3 | 1.02% | 66.67% |
| 17 | Kleavor | 3 | 1.02% | 66.67% |
| 17 | Melmetal | 3 | 1.02% | 66.67% |
| 17 | Empoleon | 3 | 1.02% | 66.67% |
| 17 | Gholdengo | 3 | 1.02% | 66.67% |
| 17 | Kyurem | 3 | 1.02% | 33.33% |
| 17 | Cyclizar | 3 | 1.02% | 33.33% |
| 17 | Regieleki | 3 | 1.02% | 33.33% |
| 17 | Azelf | 3 | 1.02% | 33.33% |
| 17 | Ting-Lu | 3 | 1.02% | 33.33% |
| 17 | Diancie | 3 | 1.02% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Slowking-Galar | 3 | 1.02% | 0.00% |
| 31 | Annihilape | 2 | 0.68% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Pikachu-World | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Excadrill | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Corviknight | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Sneasler | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Landorus-Therian | 2 | 0.68% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Greninja | 1 | 0.34% | 100.00% |
| 37 | Volcanion | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Cofagrigus | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Garchomp | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |Types of Leads
I think there's five main groups of leads which are: Mew, Mew Deterrents, Offensive Pressure Leads, and "Leads Who Get 'Em Up." I also think that they're roughly in order of viability with Mew lead being the best lead and "leads who get em up" being the worst.
Mew Hopefully not too hard to figure this one out, but based on some of the conversations that I've had with some of you, I'm not sure it's a guarantee.
Mew is obviously really strong, and it doesn't even have to be put in the lead. It's the #1 ranked mon in the tier though so it's not really a surprise to see it here. Looking at the older lead usage, you see Bundle, Pult, and Mew in the top three spots, and I believe they were at the time ranked the top three mons in the tier. What makes Mew so good is that very little can kill it, even Dragapult shadow ball was a 2HKO roll with leftovers. It also gets access to nearly every move in the game meaning, while you can usually guess their set, there's still no guarantee you're right. Assuming you're not running double hazard lead mew, you can put on spikes or rocks depending on what hazard setter you're pairing it with.
The consensus Mew best set has been:
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic Noise
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes
- Soft-Boiled
This set basically gets to set up spikes and gets to click wisp and prevents them from using rest. It's very predictable yet it's hard to build against it without hamstringing yourself. With max DV bulk, it's really hard to deal with Mew, especially when 2/3 of the super-effective types against it are neutralized by wisp, and non-STAB foul play doesn't 2HKO. The main way of dealing with Mew is by chipping it through hazards where 3HKOs can turn into 2HKO rolls, but when it's in the lead spot you don't have that luxury. Usually the most difficult times of dealing with Mew is the first few turns until you can force it out and set up hazards.
Mew Deterrents If Mew is so good, and the most common lead, it only makes sense for other leads to be prepared for it. Being able to force out that Mew and set up hazards of your own makes dealing with it over the course of a long game that much better, especially if you're able to maintain momentum and a hazard advantage for several turns.
The issue? Not too much really beats it as discussed before. I think Meowscarada is the best example of this, being able to outspeed, set up your own hazards, and threaten a 2HKO on Mew. Something like Blacephalon can be threatening to Mew as it also 2HKOs and outspeeds, but it forces you to either run Lum or be prepared to win a 50/50 with substitute vs wisp or clicking shadow ball against psychic noise. You could also very reasonably put Blacephalon in the next tier of "offensive pressure." Kingambit is another example of a Mew counterlead, arguably better than Meowscarada because it tends to run rest so getting wisped isn't as much of an issue. Recently used to great success against Mew lead was Froslass who has a faster taunt, taking away hazards, recovery, and status from Mew. It also gets to ignore booms from suicide lead Mews, though it does need to be careful of the somewhat outdated Flame Charge Mew lead. Though much less common than they were in Gen 8 MG2, fast taunt leads would still be effective provided then can endure several psychic noises while needing to reapply the two turn taunt.
Offensive Pressure Typically these are similar mons to the "Mew Deterrents" but they lose to Mew instead of beating them. I think an interesting example of this which I have actually not gotten to try myself is substitute Great Tusk which tries to gain a favorable matchup, especially against Glimmora lead, and be incredibly difficult to root out from behind a substitute, at the very least getting a free knock. Teams that use an offensive pressure mon need to still be able to force Mew out relatively quickly, these are the teams that can really struggle against Mew. Previously Bundle was a good example of this, you could argue Dragapult fit into either this or "Mew Deterrent."
Leads Who Get 'Em Up Guys who get to click their rocks move. Usually suicide leads, though they don't have to be. These are leads that say "I don't really care what you're leading, I'm clicking rocks." I'm not a huge fan of these leads, particularly suicide leads mainly because of their execution. I understand the concept of trying to get up your hazards, but I think people take the concept of suicide lead too literally. If you can only get up one layer of hazards, get up that layer and then switch out. If they have a gliscor lead into your glimmora and you get knocked, go into your Wake and then just flip turn back to it. There's this obsession with never switching out of your "suicide lead" even if preserving it makes the most sense. Leads Who Get 'Em Up are fine but they usually just don't have great matchups into Mew.
Misc Leads aka Bad Leads Basically if your lead doesn't fall into one of the above categories, it's probably bad! Even if it's serving some niche purpose (like my beloved Sun Stone Gliscor lead) it's more often than not just going to have to switch out T1 and provide momentum. That doesn't mean you shouldn't innovate, however. Although our lead meta is currently heavily focused around Mew, innovation is key as it (hopefully) brings us to a meta where we are not focused around lead mew. Maybe we're still waiting for the best lead mon to be discovered. You never know, it might be Mega Audino. In a world where Pikachu World has a 50% winrate in MG2, anything is possible...
as per usual another fuckin hit. Also Mega Audino might be legit ngl. No Froslass mention? Never mind instant L
embarassing… there is a froslass mention… tell me you didn’t read it without telling me you didn’t read it I guess…