Gen 1 Gen 1 OU - Pinsir Supremacy

[NotVeryCake]

https://pokepast.es/87f70084bca9b1c0

Hello! I have come here today to ask to you to rate an experimental team featuring the Stag Beetle Pokèmon, Pinsir!



-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Jynx is the fastest sleep lead in the game with access to the reasonably accurate Lovely Kiss, and unlike Gengar. Can have somewhat of a presence throughout the game after it sleeps an opponent. With STAB Blizzard doing decent damage and Psychic special drops forcing switches on Chansey. Rest can sometimes work but is mostly a filler move as it's hard for Jynx to make an opening to wake up with its lack of bulk.



-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Starmie is chosen here as it is the only Pokèmon on this team to outspeed a healthy Tauros and threaten it with a 4HKO with Blizzard or paralysis. Thunderbolt can threaten to 2HKO Closter and 3HKO opposing Starmie and the uncommon Lapras, and Blizzard can 2HKO Rhydon, Golem and is Starmies best option against non resists such as Snorlax, Alakazam, and Chansey. It also has the low chance to freeze the opposing Pokèmon.



-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam
-Soft Boiled
-Reflect

This Chansey set features Reflect to mitigate the lack of outstanding physical bulk on this team. Threatening Pokemon that would usually threaten to KO or seriously chip Chansey such as Snorlax, Rhydon, and Tauros. This Pokèmon is also my only counter to Zapdos on this team. Only being threatened by the unlikely double Drill Peck crit.



-Body Slam
-Reflect
-Rest
-Self Destruct

Reflect Snorlax is the only set aside from the unreliable AmnesiaLax to threaten opposing Reflect Snorlax. Body Slam is Snorlax's most reliable STAB move with chance to paralyse Starmie and Cloyster. Self Destruct is a surprise attack as opponents usually don't expect a Reflect Snorlax to run Self Destruct.



-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

Does this even require explanation? Tauros is undisputedly the best Pokèmon in RBY OU with amazing revenge killing opportunities with its STAB Body Slam and Hyper Beam and a high critical hit rate due to its high speed. Tauros is such a good Pokèmon that it is required on all good teams, because if a team does not run Tauros. It is leaving a massive weakness to the opponents opposing Tauros.



-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Submission
-Bind

The star of this team. Pinsir is, in my opinion. The best Sword Dance user in RBY OU. With access to Bind to chip down slower opponents down into Hyper Beam range and switch out safely if needs be. Submission is the best option against Rhydon, 2HKO'ing it at +2. I usually tend to pull it out as a surprise on a Pokèmon trying to burn off its sleep turns. Using the switch out turn as an opportunity to get off a free Swords Dance.

 

[Shedinja-43152]

When I saw the title I though it should be a team of 6 pokémon bugs, I try that once and never won one on OU, just won a battle against a friend who also used a monotype: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1805836431-arz0fpsp63vrflcdaj8ligimia5uj2vpw

But about your Pinsir, I believe you just pop out him after Starmie and Chansey give a lot of thunder waves on enemy team, because Pinsir isn't fast enought to do Bind safely.
Otherwise, Submission is a very good move to lead with the best pokémons of RBY: Chansey, Snorlax and Tauros. And Hyper Beam is Hyper Beam, a mandatory move on gen1.

 

[NotVeryCake]

When I saw the title I though it should be a team of 6 pokémon bugs, I try that once and never won one on OU, just won a battle against a friend who also used a monotype: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1805836431-arz0fpsp63vrflcdaj8ligimia5uj2vpw

But about your Pinsir, I believe you just pop out him after Starmie and Chansey give a lot of thunder waves on enemy team, because Pinsir isn't fast enought to do Bind safely.
Otherwise, Submission is a very good move to lead with the best pokémons of RBY: Chansey, Snorlax and Tauros. And Hyper Beam is Hyper Beam, a mandatory move on gen1.

Ty for the response! As I said I usually get off a Swords Dance when a pokemon tries to burn off its sleep turns or the opponents snorlax uses Rest. Which usually happens after a couple Pokèmon have already gotten paralysed. As for the misleading title, I'm sorry for making you think it was a Bug monotype team. I will change the title do something more suitable. I do have a Big Three + 3 Bug types team I've made that I might put on RMT after I test it out on ladder a bit and iron out the issues.

 

[KingKlobah]

Nice team overall. I'm not an expert, but a couple of issues I see are your matchup against opposing Rhydon and Slowbro.

Beginning with Rhydon, your opponents might use him to check Pinsir. Your Starmie is a good answer, but if its paralyzed or slept, your next option is Jynx's Blizzard with a 76% chance to OHKO, but she cannot use it unless she can get a free switch because Rhy's Slide is a guaranteed OHKO, and that's what it will use against Pinsir, too. Submission just barely misses an OHKO with 2 SDs, so Pinsir cannot stay in. Standard Reflectlax could come in on Rhy and setup reflect for free and 3HKO with Ice Beam, but your SD Reflectlax is completely walled instead.

Speaking about Slowbro, Starmie can hurt it with a 3HKO T-bolt before boosts, but has to come in before a Tobybro begins boosting. Boltbeam Chansey could make some progress with T-bolt until Amnesias, and one with S-Toss at least does consistent damage, but yours can only fish for freezes. Tauros, Pinsir and Reflectlax all cannot 3HKO with unboosted attack while +2 Surf 2 or 3HKOs each of them.

Overall, though could be wrong, I would recommend running traditional Reflect Chansey with S-toss in place of Ice Beam for consistent damage and Amnesialax instead of Reflectlax to check Tobybro, destroy Rhydon and boost perpendicular to opposing Reflectlax, which your current Lax cannot 1v1 bar crits and trading because it hasn't any Ice Beam.

 

[NotVeryCake]

Nice team overall. I'm not an expert, but a couple of issues I see are your matchup against opposing Rhydon and Slowbro.

Beginning with Rhydon, your opponents might use him to check Pinsir. Your Starmie is a good answer, but if its paralyzed or slept, your next option is Jynx's Blizzard with a 76% chance to OHKO, but she cannot use it unless she can get a free switch because Rhy's Slide is a guaranteed OHKO, and that's what it will use against Pinsir, too. Submission just barely misses an OHKO with 2 SDs, so Pinsir cannot stay in. Standard Reflectlax could come in on Rhy and setup reflect for free and 3HKO with Ice Beam, but your SD Reflectlax is completely walled instead.

Speaking about Slowbro, Starmie can hurt it with a 3HKO T-bolt before boosts, but has to come in before a Tobybro begins boosting. Boltbeam Chansey could make some progress with T-bolt until Amnesias, and one with S-Toss at least does consistent damage, but yours can only fish for freezes. Tauros, Pinsir and Reflectlax all cannot 3HKO with unboosted attack while +2 Surf 2 or 3HKOs each of them.

Overall, though could be wrong, I would recommend running traditional Reflect Chansey with S-toss in place of Ice Beam for consistent damage and Amnesialax instead of Reflectlax to check Tobybro, destroy Rhydon and boost perpendicular to opposing Reflectlax, which your current Lax cannot 1v1 bar crits and trading because it hasn't any Ice Beam.

I typically use Bind when Rhydon switches in on Pinsir to ensure a safe switch into Reflect Chansey. Which gets 4HKO'd by Rhydon's Earthquake after a Reflect is set up. And 2HKO's Rhydon in return with Ice Beam. Non Ice Beam Chansey set's also tend to lose against opposing Chansey with Ice Beam as they typically end up frozen. And Slowbro can be successfully stalled by Starmie, as at +4 Surf only threatens to 3HKO's Starmie.

 

[Sabelette]

To me the biggest hole in your team is an absolutely devastating Gengar weakness. It completely walls your Snorlax and Pinsir and can even sit in front of them while asleep, wins the lead matchup against Jynx, and can beat Starmie once it’s paralyzed, especially since you’re using the weakest Starmie set against Gengar. Overall I think this is just too stacked with weaknesses to one of the most common leads out there. You have a few options to rectify this as I see it, all of which have their own drawbacks as you might expect when using a non OU mon.

1. EQ Lax. Upside, Lax is no longer walled and this also helps vs Rhydon. Downside: lacks the raw killing power of boom or Hbeam.

2. Lead Starmie. You can lead Starmie and double out vs opposing Gengar to get your Jynx in, no moveset change needed. Upsides: keep your good matchups vs most other things. Downsides: Gengar might stay in (more likely than vs Zam), you guarantee opposing Jynx is getting sleep, worse vs twave leads.

3. Redo the team. As-is the team has a brutal Gengar weakness but also has problems with Rhydon (Ice Reflect Chansey is not nearly as good a check as you think), Slowbro, and non-lead Alakazam. Upside: better weakness coverage. Downside: you probably liked the old team. Here’s my proposed team changes:

Spoiler

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Alakazam
-Psychic
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

OR

Starmie
-Surf
-Psychic / Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

We're pump faking the lead. Alakazam lead scares out Gengar to allow a back Jynx safe entry, and Jynx still has reasonable odds vs Twave leads on the other side. Opposing Jynx lead is a bit of a pain but Pinsir will eventually exploit it for free entry so it's okay to have a bad matchup there. This also gives you effectively a back Zam to help paralyze or beat things that threaten Pinsir. You get a little worse vs Slowbro and Rhydon without Starmie but this will be compensated later and in exchange you have better matchups vs Gengar (crucial), Zam, Chansey.

Alternatively, shift Starmie here. We can go Surf Psy to help break down Chansey and opposing Zam and we're again trying to pump fake the Gengar into switching out, but having Psychic also means you can sometimes just stay and punish it for being cheeky and trying to predict the double. The extra PP and the Special drops will help immensely in forcing things like Chansey and Snorlax out so Starmie can spread more paralysis, and you preserve a strong Rhydon check. Thunderbolt is an alternative, giving up forcing Chansey out and weakening the Gengar matchup immensely in exchange for covering Slowbro.

Starmie
-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Second part of the back Jynx combo.

Chansey
-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam Seismic Toss
-Soft Boiled
-Reflect

Seismic Toss shores up the Slowbro issue, and Reflect Toss Chansey is still able to somewhat handle Rhydon so long as it's not paralyzed.

Snorlax
-Body Slam
-Reflect
-Rest
-Self Destruct Earthquake / Hyper Beam

Earthquake secures your Rhydon and Gengar answers while Hyper Beam helps with just about everything else that could be a headache for Pinsir, wiping out Psychic-types or helping break Cloyster.

Tauros
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

It's just Tauros lol

Pinsir
-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Submission
-Bind Slash

Hot take: I think Bind is awful. Way too low accuracy for my taste and ideally Pinsir is 1-2HKOing things and staying in to break open an enemy team, not dancing in and out. Slash lets Pinsir get in on sleeping foes and contribute even if its a Reflax and this move outright 2HKOes Chansey combined with Submission or 2HKOes Zam. I think that's worth considering given its safe to fire off into most things and basically nothing can switch in. This lets you get in on slept mons, resting Jynx, Zam/Mie/Chans as they're forced to Recover (looking for a para), or even maybe Snorlax and make progress.

Hope that helps, lmk your thoughts!

 

[NotVeryCake]

To me the biggest hole in your team is an absolutely devastating Gengar weakness. It completely walls your Snorlax and Pinsir and can even sit in front of them while asleep, wins the lead matchup against Jynx, and can beat Starmie once it’s paralyzed, especially since you’re using the weakest Starmie set against Gengar. Overall I think this is just too stacked with weaknesses to one of the most common leads out there. You have a few options to rectify this as I see it, all of which have their own drawbacks as you might expect when using a non OU mon.

1. EQ Lax. Upside, Lax is no longer walled and this also helps vs Rhydon. Downside: lacks the raw killing power of boom or Hbeam.

2. Lead Starmie. You can lead Starmie and double out vs opposing Gengar to get your Jynx in, no moveset change needed. Upsides: keep your good matchups vs most other things. Downsides: Gengar might stay in (more likely than vs Zam), you guarantee opposing Jynx is getting sleep, worse vs twave leads.

3. Redo the team. As-is the team has a brutal Gengar weakness but also has problems with Rhydon (Ice Reflect Chansey is not nearly as good a check as you think), Slowbro, and non-lead Alakazam. Upside: better weakness coverage. Downside: you probably liked the old team. Here’s my proposed team changes:

Spoiler

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Alakazam
-Psychic
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

OR

Starmie
-Surf
-Psychic / Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

We're pump faking the lead. Alakazam lead scares out Gengar to allow a back Jynx safe entry, and Jynx still has reasonable odds vs Twave leads on the other side. Opposing Jynx lead is a bit of a pain but Pinsir will eventually exploit it for free entry so it's okay to have a bad matchup there. This also gives you effectively a back Zam to help paralyze or beat things that threaten Pinsir. You get a little worse vs Slowbro and Rhydon without Starmie but this will be compensated later and in exchange you have better matchups vs Gengar (crucial), Zam, Chansey.

Alternatively, shift Starmie here. We can go Surf Psy to help break down Chansey and opposing Zam and we're again trying to pump fake the Gengar into switching out, but having Psychic also means you can sometimes just stay and punish it for being cheeky and trying to predict the double. The extra PP and the Special drops will help immensely in forcing things like Chansey and Snorlax out so Starmie can spread more paralysis, and you preserve a strong Rhydon check. Thunderbolt is an alternative, giving up forcing Chansey out and weakening the Gengar matchup immensely in exchange for covering Slowbro.

Starmie
-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Second part of the back Jynx combo.

Chansey
-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam Seismic Toss
-Soft Boiled
-Reflect

Seismic Toss shores up the Slowbro issue, and Reflect Toss Chansey is still able to somewhat handle Rhydon so long as it's not paralyzed.

Snorlax
-Body Slam
-Reflect
-Rest
-Self Destruct Earthquake / Hyper Beam

Earthquake secures your Rhydon and Gengar answers while Hyper Beam helps with just about everything else that could be a headache for Pinsir, wiping out Psychic-types or helping break Cloyster.

Tauros
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

It's just Tauros lol

Pinsir
-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Submission
-Bind Slash

Hot take: I think Bind is awful. Way too low accuracy for my taste and ideally Pinsir is 1-2HKOing things and staying in to break open an enemy team, not dancing in and out. Slash lets Pinsir get in on sleeping foes and contribute even if its a Reflax and this move outright 2HKOes Chansey combined with Submission or 2HKOes Zam. I think that's worth considering given its safe to fire off into most things and basically nothing can switch in. This lets you get in on slept mons, resting Jynx, Zam/Mie/Chans as they're forced to Recover (looking for a para), or even maybe Snorlax and make progress.

Hope that helps, lmk your thoughts!

Ty so much for the help! I'll replace SD on Lax with Earthquake and lead out Starmie, But I don't personally think replacing Bind with Slash would be the best idea as Bind can chip slower opponents like Cloyster, Snorlax, and Exggecutor. Can bring a switch in Starmie into Hyper Beam range, and can give a safe pivot from Rhydon or Gengar into something that can handle them. And Chansey without Ice Beam runs the risk of being frozen by opposing Chansey with Ice Beam. And Starmie without Thunderbolt loses to opposing Starmie with Thunderbolt and doesn't 2HKO Cloyster. Gengar as a lead is also a risk as it has to run the inaccurate Hypnosis.

 

[KingKlobah]

To me the biggest hole in your team is an absolutely devastating Gengar weakness. It completely walls your Snorlax and Pinsir and can even sit in front of them while asleep, wins the lead matchup against Jynx, and can beat Starmie once it’s paralyzed, especially since you’re using the weakest Starmie set against Gengar. Overall I think this is just too stacked with weaknesses to one of the most common leads out there. You have a few options to rectify this as I see it, all of which have their own drawbacks as you might expect when using a non OU mon.

1. EQ Lax. Upside, Lax is no longer walled and this also helps vs Rhydon. Downside: lacks the raw killing power of boom or Hbeam.

2. Lead Starmie. You can lead Starmie and double out vs opposing Gengar to get your Jynx in, no moveset change needed. Upsides: keep your good matchups vs most other things. Downsides: Gengar might stay in (more likely than vs Zam), you guarantee opposing Jynx is getting sleep, worse vs twave leads.

3. Redo the team. As-is the team has a brutal Gengar weakness but also has problems with Rhydon (Ice Reflect Chansey is not nearly as good a check as you think), Slowbro, and non-lead Alakazam. Upside: better weakness coverage. Downside: you probably liked the old team. Here’s my proposed team changes:

Spoiler

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Alakazam
-Psychic
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

OR

Starmie
-Surf
-Psychic / Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Recover

We're pump faking the lead. Alakazam lead scares out Gengar to allow a back Jynx safe entry, and Jynx still has reasonable odds vs Twave leads on the other side. Opposing Jynx lead is a bit of a pain but Pinsir will eventually exploit it for free entry so it's okay to have a bad matchup there. This also gives you effectively a back Zam to help paralyze or beat things that threaten Pinsir. You get a little worse vs Slowbro and Rhydon without Starmie but this will be compensated later and in exchange you have better matchups vs Gengar (crucial), Zam, Chansey.

Alternatively, shift Starmie here. We can go Surf Psy to help break down Chansey and opposing Zam and we're again trying to pump fake the Gengar into switching out, but having Psychic also means you can sometimes just stay and punish it for being cheeky and trying to predict the double. The extra PP and the Special drops will help immensely in forcing things like Chansey and Snorlax out so Starmie can spread more paralysis, and you preserve a strong Rhydon check. Thunderbolt is an alternative, giving up forcing Chansey out and weakening the Gengar matchup immensely in exchange for covering Slowbro.

Starmie
-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Jynx
-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Second part of the back Jynx combo.

Chansey
-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam Seismic Toss
-Soft Boiled
-Reflect

Seismic Toss shores up the Slowbro issue, and Reflect Toss Chansey is still able to somewhat handle Rhydon so long as it's not paralyzed.

Snorlax
-Body Slam
-Reflect
-Rest
-Self Destruct Earthquake / Hyper Beam

Earthquake secures your Rhydon and Gengar answers while Hyper Beam helps with just about everything else that could be a headache for Pinsir, wiping out Psychic-types or helping break Cloyster.

Tauros
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

It's just Tauros lol

Pinsir
-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Submission
-Bind Slash

Hot take: I think Bind is awful. Way too low accuracy for my taste and ideally Pinsir is 1-2HKOing things and staying in to break open an enemy team, not dancing in and out. Slash lets Pinsir get in on sleeping foes and contribute even if its a Reflax and this move outright 2HKOes Chansey combined with Submission or 2HKOes Zam. I think that's worth considering given its safe to fire off into most things and basically nothing can switch in. This lets you get in on slept mons, resting Jynx, Zam/Mie/Chans as they're forced to Recover (looking for a para), or even maybe Snorlax and make progress.

Hope that helps, lmk your thoughts!

Good ideas. I totally missed that, because Starmie had no Psychic, there weren't many good answers to opposing Gar, which is fatal on a team meant to enable Pinsir sweeping in the mid to late game.

 

[NotVeryCake]

If I'm going to replace Bind with something it would be Seismic Toss as a sleeping Gengar would switch in, I could get a free +3, which is a game ending stat boost. Then KO Gengar with Seismic Toss

Good ideas. I totally missed that, because Starmie had no Psychic, there weren't many good answers to opposing Gar, which is fatal on a team meant to enable Pinsir sweeping in the mid to late game.

 

[KingKlobah]

You might hit Gengar then, but you couldnt keep up with Gar's offensive power. Since S-Toss has fixed damage and 4HKOs, except in the case of sleeping Gar you mentioned or an already weakened Gar, you lose the match up (especially when trying to boost while Gar attacks) because Gar's Psychic and T-Bolt are guaranteed 3HKOs. Even worse, by keeping Pinsir in for a few turns to deal with Gar, you risk Hypnosis, T-Bolt Paralysis, Psychic special drops, or an Explosion on Pinsir which can ruin your sweep by leaving Pinsir open to revenge killing, even if you are able to defeat Gar.

 

[Rubiaa]

https://pokepast.es/87f70084bca9b1c0

Hello! I have come here today to ask to you to rate an experimental team featuring the Stag Beetle Pokèmon, Pinsir!



-Lovely Kiss
-Psychic
-Blizzard
-Rest

Jynx is the fastest sleep lead in the game with access to the reasonably accurate Lovely Kiss, and unlike Gengar. Can have somewhat of a presence throughout the game after it sleeps an opponent. With STAB Blizzard doing decent damage and Psychic special drops forcing switches on Chansey. Rest can sometimes work but is mostly a filler move as it's hard for Jynx to make an opening to wake up with its lack of bulk.



-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

Starmie is chosen here as it is the only Pokèmon on this team to outspeed a healthy Tauros and threaten it with a 4HKO with Blizzard or paralysis. Thunderbolt can threaten to 2HKO Closter and 3HKO opposing Starmie and the uncommon Lapras, and Blizzard can 2HKO Rhydon, Golem and is Starmies best option against non resists such as Snorlax, Alakazam, and Chansey. It also has the low chance to freeze the opposing Pokèmon.



-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam
-Soft Boiled
-Reflect

This Chansey set features Reflect to mitigate the lack of outstanding physical bulk on this team. Threatening Pokemon that would usually threaten to KO or seriously chip Chansey such as Snorlax, Rhydon, and Tauros. This Pokèmon is also my only counter to Zapdos on this team. Only being threatened by the unlikely double Drill Peck crit.



-Body Slam
-Reflect
-Rest
-Self Destruct

Reflect Snorlax is the only set aside from the unreliable AmnesiaLax to threaten opposing Reflect Snorlax. Body Slam is Snorlax's most reliable STAB move with chance to paralyse Starmie and Cloyster. Self Destruct is a surprise attack as opponents usually don't expect a Reflect Snorlax to run Self Destruct.



-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

Does this even require explanation? Tauros is undisputedly the best Pokèmon in RBY OU with amazing revenge killing opportunities with its STAB Body Slam and Hyper Beam and a high critical hit rate due to its high speed. Tauros is such a good Pokèmon that it is required on all good teams, because if a team does not run Tauros. It is leaving a massive weakness to the opponents opposing Tauros.



-Swords Dance
-Hyper Beam
-Submission
-Bind

The star of this team. Pinsir is, in my opinion. The best Sword Dance user in RBY OU. With access to Bind to chip down slower opponents down into Hyper Beam range and switch out safely if needs be. Submission is the best option against Rhydon, 2HKO'ing it at +2. I usually tend to pull it out as a surprise on a Pokèmon trying to burn off its sleep turns. Using the switch out turn as an opportunity to get off a free Swords Dance.

I like this, good idea. I seen BKC experiment with pinsir. Piece of advice, try out Persian. Slash crits almost everytime and its like a baby tauros that u could pair with tauros