Pixelate apparently boosts Hyper Voice to an outrageous 180 BP, so Mega Gardevoir is super viable with such a devastating attack that hits through subs. I'd argue that it can compete with many of the better megas, though definitely does not outclass them.
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Pokémon Gardevoir
- Thread starter Halcyon.
- Start date
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Not 180 BP, but 117; 175 with STAB.
For comparison, Timid MegaGardevoir's Hyper Voice is 86.67% as strong as Mixmence's Draco Meteor... without missing or Sp. Attack reduction, and hitting through Substitute.
For comparison, Timid MegaGardevoir's Hyper Voice is 86.67% as strong as Mixmence's Draco Meteor... without missing or Sp. Attack reduction, and hitting through Substitute.
Yeah, I rounded up a bit(I always factor in STAB when calculating BP). Meant to put "ish" in there. But, yeah, that's pretty strong AND useful.
Gardevoir probably won't live a Sludge Bomb though with it's 90 Power and all.
...Oh yeah, forgot that one. Then you need Max HP and no hazards.
Would a set like this work?
Gardevoir @Gardevoirite
Timid
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Echoed Voice
Shadow Ball can be switched for whatever coverage is best, Moonblast is the main attacking move until...you happen to leave an opponent with a sliver of HP. That's when Echoed Voice comes in: you finish off an opponent with it and it doubles in power!
Will-o-wisp is, I think, invaluable this gen with the 10% increase in acc and plus it helps Gardevoir's measly defence.
The idea is to start sweeping with Echoed Voice, but the thing is this is all theory >_<'
Gardevoir @Gardevoirite
Timid
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Echoed Voice
Shadow Ball can be switched for whatever coverage is best, Moonblast is the main attacking move until...you happen to leave an opponent with a sliver of HP. That's when Echoed Voice comes in: you finish off an opponent with it and it doubles in power!
Will-o-wisp is, I think, invaluable this gen with the 10% increase in acc and plus it helps Gardevoir's measly defence.
The idea is to start sweeping with Echoed Voice, but the thing is this is all theory >_<'
Can we just stop talking about Echoed Voice forever?
Anything that relies on doing the same thing over and over and over again just does not work.
Anything that relies on doing the same thing over and over and over again just does not work.
gardevoir learns moonblast at level 85 i believe.
I'm just desperately trynna find a use for Pixilate until Hypervoice becomes available.
There's always the hyper beam shenanigans if you're up for a bit of fun.
It's the only move Gardevoir can abuse before bank comes around. And it -does- work. Hell, STAB Super-effective Echoed Voice at only 40 base power is enough to take any weakened dragons down. And after that it's as powerful as Hyper Voice. The opponent is done for if you have sticky web out and they don't KO you with priority.
Yes, Hyper Voice is better: It's just not available right now.
And at Level -- (Move Reminder)
Even then, Echoed Voice just isn't worth. You basically HAVE to use the move next turn to take advantage of the now "Hyper Voice" move. Steel has remained popular since the GSC days and with the introduction of some viable Fairy-types (Azumarill, Togekiss, etc), Steel-types like Scizor are going to stick around. Meaning they will switch in after you take out that Dragon. And even if you don't, the other opponent will be at an advantage whether they decide to sack their Dragon or not.
More on topic, I find it disappointing that Mega Gardevoir doesn't seem to have any specific advantages over regular Gardevoir in running a defensive set. You'd basically have to invest in Speed, Special Defense or Special Attack along with HP since both have the exact same physical defense. Meanwhile, Gardevoir keeps Trace and, for what it's worth, Leftovers. It would be nice to take advantage of that base 100 speed and have a somewhat fast (by OU standards) Encore to stop any setup or stallbreak.
Gardevoir wouldn't be doing anything to Steel-types to begin with, Echoed Voice or anything else. At most she can take off a chunk of HP with Shadow Ball (or try to KO with Focus Blast if you like running that), but Bullet Punch Technician Scizor will ALWAYS OHKO Gardevoir. Keeping her in against Scizor(or most steel-types in general) is suicide no matter what set you run. Better switch out to a Fire-type or a physical wall.
I'm not going to put down calculations, as I'd likely mess them up regardless. Multiscale Dragonite aside, Echoed Voice at a mere 40BP can OHKO a Dragon-Type pokemon due to stab, pixilate's 30% boost and her 165 base SpA. Garchomp has a tiny chance of surviving, but that's it (And Goodra, being a special tank, takes it with ease). And this is not counting prior SR damage or any Calm Minds. It is more likely for you to beat the opponents dragon than it is for them to survive.
Don't get me wrong. The moment I can put Hyper Voice on my Gardevoir (which for me will be until a Tutor in XY's sequel comes around, as I'm not retraining a Shiny 5 max IV Gardevoir on an older generation), I assure you, I will. It's much safer. That doesn't mean Echoed Voice isn't worth it for now, however.
(All of the above is based on in-game battles, although my "these-may-be-wrong"-calculations
generally match up.)
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Gardevoir@Gardevoirite
Modest
4HP | 252SpA | 252Spe
-Psychic / Psyshock
-Will-O-Wisp
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast/Hyper Voice/Echoed Voice
That's my set, and it's been working out so far. It lacks coverage, sure, I am aware of that, but it can take even physical attackers (bar Bullet Punch Scizor) with ease thanks to Will-O-Wisp. Psychic is generally preferred as it deals more damage, although Psyshock could help take down things that are more specially defensive. Moonblast is the safe option for Fairy STAB, until Hyper Voice is available, after which Hyper Voice is generally the best option. Echoed Voice can still hurt and KO most things weak to fairy, despite only 40 Base Power, thanks to Pixilate, and reaches Hyper Voice's base power after a single use. It can be tricky to set up, should the opponent be running anything with priority, but due to capping at a whopping 200 base power before Pixilate, may potentially sweep far better than Hyper Voice.
Main checks and counters are of course, Steel Types, as they resist anything this set can throw at them. Sticky Web support is almost mandatory despite having a very respectable 100 Base Speed, to ensure Gardevoir always goes first (not counting priority). Stealth Rock is nice to have on the field, but not a necessity.
Hyper Beam from Gardevoir IS pretty strong
252+ SpA (custom) Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 244-288 (37.42 - 44.17%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Haxorus disagrees.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-58874698
On topic, I think Gardy shouldn't try to be physically bulky, it functions much better as a special tank that has a better offensive presence than Blissey.
Porygon-Z can OHKO Blissey with Hyper Beam.
Shenanigans aside, 3HKOing anything with Hyper Beam means you're spending 6 turns executing 3 moves. In those 3 recharge turns, Blissey could easily softboiled/wish/leftovers the damage off....so you're really not going to KO the pink blob with Hyper Beam.
Oh I know, this isn't what I implied. It just means that anything taking even neutral damage from it is gonna get murdered unless they're SpD+ Nature with 252EV in SpD and a good base SpD.
Still gimmicky as hell, but could be useful at the end of a battle of something.
I think it's a bit odd that people keep trying to propose defensive Megardevoir sets. I definitely don't agree with everyone who says that normal Garde will outclass Mega, but I definitely agree that Trace + Leftovers make it better suited to defensive and support roles. If you're running Megarde, you should be trying to kill shit with it, that's the only real advantage it has over its normal form.
I'm -really- interested in the talk about Echoed Voice. Gardevoir has been my absolute favorite pokemon for quite a while now, so for my current team I trained up a perfect sp.atk/speed Modest Gardevoir @ 4 HP/252SpA/252 SPE with Echoed Voice, Focus Blast, Psychic, Thunderbolt.
I, too, desperately wanted to take advantage of Pixelate so I looked at Echoed Voice; it has the potential to get monstrous. Though... I've done numerous battles and I'm afraid that I've never really had the opportunity to set up a super sweep with it. I always get a steel type switched into Gardevoir after the first KO. I was amazed though, I went up against a Noivern who used substitute to which Echoed Voice went right through it and KO'd it immediately. Otherwise, Echoed Voice hasn't been as great as I originally anticipated, so I'm probably replacing it with Moon Blast.
So... I guess I can speak from experience that Echoed Voice is lackluster, and more of a risk than anything. If you think you can KO any switch-ins that wall fairy-moves specifically, then you could probably get free reign. Otherwise, Hyper Voice would be more reliable (which isn't accessible in 6th gen yet, so Moon Blast it is...)
I, too, desperately wanted to take advantage of Pixelate so I looked at Echoed Voice; it has the potential to get monstrous. Though... I've done numerous battles and I'm afraid that I've never really had the opportunity to set up a super sweep with it. I always get a steel type switched into Gardevoir after the first KO. I was amazed though, I went up against a Noivern who used substitute to which Echoed Voice went right through it and KO'd it immediately. Otherwise, Echoed Voice hasn't been as great as I originally anticipated, so I'm probably replacing it with Moon Blast.
So... I guess I can speak from experience that Echoed Voice is lackluster, and more of a risk than anything. If you think you can KO any switch-ins that wall fairy-moves specifically, then you could probably get free reign. Otherwise, Hyper Voice would be more reliable (which isn't accessible in 6th gen yet, so Moon Blast it is...)
There's something in Gardevoir's moveset that I think may be somewhat underrated: Future Sight. Future Wish and Doom Desire are the two strongest attacks of their respective types, and cannot be blocked by Protect or any similar move (including Chesnaught's signature Spiky Shield and Aegislash's signature King's Shield). Thus...
Mega Gardevoir (Future Sight Offensive Support)
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid / Modest
Item: Gardervoirite
- Future Sight
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Wish / Will-o-wisp / Healing Wish
Nothing will really feel comfortable taking a STAB 120 BP attack coming off of 165 base Special Attack unless it's resisted or immune. However, this set is designed not only to take out such checks, but to force the opponent into a rather uncomfortable position and soften things for its teammates to clean up later. Dark-types will eat a super-effective STAB Moonblast from the aforementioned monstrous Special Attack stat, and Steel-types will not enjoy a Focus Blast. Shadow Ball is slashed as an option to hit opposing Psychic-types for super effective damage as well as hitting Aegislash, which it would not be able to touch otherwise. The last moveslot is mostly filler, but the first two options slashed improve Gardevoir's ability to take hits and support the team. The Future Sight / Wish combo allows Gardevoir to act as a good pivot and gives it some form of recovery, whereas Will-o-wisp cripples physical attackers that try to prey on its lower defensive stat. Teammates that can use the Future Sight incoming to its advantage really make it shine, such as Fighting-types that can decimate the Dark- and Steel- types that try to negate the hit. For this reason, Healing Wish is also slashed as an option in the last slot, fully charging up a weakened teammate to come in and use that final Future Sight to its advantage.
Mega Gardevoir (Future Sight Offensive Support)
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid / Modest
Item: Gardervoirite
- Future Sight
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Wish / Will-o-wisp / Healing Wish
Nothing will really feel comfortable taking a STAB 120 BP attack coming off of 165 base Special Attack unless it's resisted or immune. However, this set is designed not only to take out such checks, but to force the opponent into a rather uncomfortable position and soften things for its teammates to clean up later. Dark-types will eat a super-effective STAB Moonblast from the aforementioned monstrous Special Attack stat, and Steel-types will not enjoy a Focus Blast. Shadow Ball is slashed as an option to hit opposing Psychic-types for super effective damage as well as hitting Aegislash, which it would not be able to touch otherwise. The last moveslot is mostly filler, but the first two options slashed improve Gardevoir's ability to take hits and support the team. The Future Sight / Wish combo allows Gardevoir to act as a good pivot and gives it some form of recovery, whereas Will-o-wisp cripples physical attackers that try to prey on its lower defensive stat. Teammates that can use the Future Sight incoming to its advantage really make it shine, such as Fighting-types that can decimate the Dark- and Steel- types that try to negate the hit. For this reason, Healing Wish is also slashed as an option in the last slot, fully charging up a weakened teammate to come in and use that final Future Sight to its advantage.
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No Calm Mind on Gardevoir and focusing solely on attacking moves seems wrong, but....I have to admit I hardly find any time to set up Calm Mind at all. The metagame (at least in the actual game's 3v3 rating battles) is dominated by physical attackers (Scizor, Garchomp, Mega Kangkaskhan, Aegislash etc) so any physical priority move downs her easily, and she can't even tank a Shadow Ball from regular Gengar, who is faster than her Mega to begin with, so you can't get a Calm Mind in.
Perhaps WoW + 3 Attacks, or, if you have a dedicated physical wall, 4 Attacks (like you) works best for MegaGardy.
I haven't seen much benefit from Moonblast over Echoed Voice, to be honest. Most things that are weak to fairy won't survive even a 40BP Echoed Voice, and things that do survive likely won't be taken down by a Moonblast either. However I do admit that Moonblast, and later on, Hyper Voice, is much better for things that are neutral to Fairy types, should it happen nothing else in your moveset is SE.
Considering the STAB Gardevoir gets on fairy moves it may be possible to ditch Psychic all together (Moonblast has 5 more BP, Hyper Voice ties but hits through Sub) and just use another coverage move, such as Shadow Ball for Ghost coverage.
I was really thinking about having Shadow Ball in there somewhere... anyway, I had calm mind over focus blast originally, but I realized that I never use calm mind AND I've encountered countless situations where I said to myself, "It would be really nice if I could focus blast right now".
I dislike not having Psychic on Gardevoir for some reason. But, i'm trying to think where it would really be more useful than Shadow Ball - since Moonblast hits fighting types, the only disadvantage would be poison types... however those would be unlikely, still take neutral from bolt/shadow ball, or be Gengar and devastate megaGarde anyway. Plus, Shadow ball would let me devastate that pesky Aegislash who stomps my poor megaGardevoir every time.
Perhaps you're right about Shadow Ball over Psychic, but if I ran Echoed Voice I would run Psychic instead still. Also, Echoed Voice hasn't really OHKO'd at 40 still - that Noivern was missing some health already. It usually leaves a lot of opponents in the yellow... but you do have a point that those not OHKO'd by echoed Voice wouldn't get OHKO'd by Moon Blast even, I have noticed that. I'm going to try it out and see what happens, simply sitting here and speculating won't do much - after all, heart scales are easy to come back (thief + old rod on luvdisc) and Echoed Voice is an infinite use TM.
Edit: Oh, and as for a wall, I have super-sized Gourgiest as a sub-seeding tank with Shadow Sneak and Seed bomb, and defensive situations where Gourgiest fails I have Tentacruel with toxic/protect/scald/rapid spin
I dislike not having Psychic on Gardevoir for some reason. But, i'm trying to think where it would really be more useful than Shadow Ball - since Moonblast hits fighting types, the only disadvantage would be poison types... however those would be unlikely, still take neutral from bolt/shadow ball, or be Gengar and devastate megaGarde anyway. Plus, Shadow ball would let me devastate that pesky Aegislash who stomps my poor megaGardevoir every time.
Perhaps you're right about Shadow Ball over Psychic, but if I ran Echoed Voice I would run Psychic instead still. Also, Echoed Voice hasn't really OHKO'd at 40 still - that Noivern was missing some health already. It usually leaves a lot of opponents in the yellow... but you do have a point that those not OHKO'd by echoed Voice wouldn't get OHKO'd by Moon Blast even, I have noticed that. I'm going to try it out and see what happens, simply sitting here and speculating won't do much - after all, heart scales are easy to come back (thief + old rod on luvdisc) and Echoed Voice is an infinite use TM.
Edit: Oh, and as for a wall, I have super-sized Gourgiest as a sub-seeding tank with Shadow Sneak and Seed bomb, and defensive situations where Gourgiest fails I have Tentacruel with toxic/protect/scald/rapid spin
What are your opinions on Moonblast vs Hyper Voice? Is 95 base power with a special attack reduction chance worth less than 90 base power with the ability to hit through Subs, Protect, and Detect?
Hyper Voice has 117 Base Power with Pixilate (it boosts the move's power by x1.3 AND changes type) and that's before STAB. It's not really a contest.
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