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Been dabbling in this meta (so don't consider me an expert), and I consider it quite fun tbh. The main thing I observe however is that a majority of viable mons in the meta are considered to be NFE's, which usually tend to run the item Eviolite. I just would like to ask however how the meta will be impacted if such an item where to be banned?, due to the common placement it seems in the majority of the mons. Possibly hindering such behemoths such as Ebuzz and Fraxure
Been dabbling in this meta (so don't consider me an expert), and I consider it quite fun tbh. The main thing I observe however is that a majority of viable mons in the meta are considered to be NFE's, which usually tend to run the item Eviolite. I just would like to ask however how the meta will be impacted if such an item where to be banned?, due to the common placement it seems in the majority of the mons.
An Eviolite ban would seriously throw the balance completely out of the metagame. All of the mons that are walled by Eviolite Pokémon suddenly have an immediate advantage, and it will be essentially suicide for any self respecting metagame. There would be no balance, just hyper offense, where its like kill, sack, kill, sack, you get the point.
Instead, an Eviolite heavy meta means that knock off is by far the best coverage move to have on any mon, since its immediate counter (especially if it has Eviolite) will be immediately crippled without turn on turn recovery or a huge reduction on bulk equivalent to 33%.
However, the great thing about this tier is the fact that knock off is such a rare coverage move to have. In fact, if you look at the tier list, only a handful of the upper ranked mons actually have access to Knock Off itself, leading it to being more of a tool for that mons moveset (so that it can become viable) rather than an out an out broken move which is carried by every mon which every mon gets.
But yeah, I would heavily disagree with banning Eviolite Realistic Waters
Been dabbling in this meta (so don't consider me an expert), and I consider it quite fun tbh. The main thing I observe however is that a majority of viable mons in the meta are considered to be NFE's, which usually tend to run the item Eviolite. I just would like to ask however how the meta will be impacted if such an item where to be banned?, due to the common placement it seems in the majority of the mons. Possibly hindering such behemoths such as Ebuzz and Fraxure
There's still an opportunity cost associated with running an Eviolite, even down in FU. Whereas in Middle Cup it makes sense to even the playing field (though tbf not all middle evolutions are created equally) there are items you have to forgo for that extra bulk, such as a Lum Berry to make setting up less risky against status or a choice item to make revenging easier.
Well with Cuno and friends gone, I feel like this opens the door for other Pokemon that were previously overshadowed by it to finally come into light. Here's a few things I've been experimenting with:
Ice Cream was practically useless in a tier where Articuno existed. While it was significantly stronger than Cuno, its Speed tier keeps it from being able to run Modest, and its lack of reliable recovery + pure Ice-type is terrible defensively, so it can't pivot into attacks like Cuno can. However, with Cuno AND Lapras gone, Ice Cream is definitely one of the better Ice-types in the tier, and despite its shortcomings, the Ice-typing is so good offensively in FU that I can definitely see it doing pretty well in the current meta. With access to Ice Shard and a decently high Attack stat, it can pick off weakened sweepers such as Fraxure and Butterfree, as well as some other shit such as Gabite, Simisage, and Krokorok. Hidden Power Ground lets it hit Lairon and smack Metang hard on the switch. With Autotomize, it can function as a late game cleaner, and a surprisingly good one at that; Ice coverage + Freeze Dry + HP Ground hits pretty much everything for neutral damage. Weak Armor is also a pretty cool ability because it can take advantage of pivots that try to U-turn out on it and grab a Speed boost for a small price of being a bit weaker to Sucker Punch/Fake Out. Mambo loves telling me that Ice Cream will never be good, but I feel like for as long as Cuno and Lapras are gone, Vanilluxe is definitely one of the best Ice-types in the tier that can keep up with most top tier threats.
Vanilluxe could get the place of Cuno as being an offensive Ice Type poke with nice defensive presence, but I dunno if it can take Lapras place... I belive that Lapras place will be taken by Walrein, being a bulky poke with some not so bad tools and a nice water typing (apart from ice type of course).
It can get a Rest/talk set it can use Curse, Encore, and while its special movepool is just Surf, Ice Beam and Hidden Power, its Physical is slightly better having Waterfall, Avalanche, Crunch and Earthquake.
Heck, it can even go with a Sub Belly Salac
Shenanigan, since Waterfall+Return has a nice coverage in this tier!
Can we just ban Fraxure already? Like, really, this thing is just OP:
- One of its stop is gone: Clefairy
- Great typing to set up, it doesn't help that one of the mains ice type is gone as well
- Its answers are few & aren't that great aside from that niche ( Metang is okay, through )
- If you don't have said answer, it pretty much shits on you as soon as it's as +1, with the ease to setup not helping either.
Overall, i just think Fraxure is unhealthy for the current meta. It either force the use of specific pokemons, and if you don't, it becomes a broken win condition that really only need 1 boost & doesn't have much trouble getting it. At least suspect it.
Can we just ban Fraxure already? Like, really, this thing is just OP:
- One of its stop is gone: Clefairy
- Great typing to set up, it doesn't help that one of the mains ice type is gone as well
- Its answers are few & aren't that great aside from that niche ( Metang is okay, through )
- If you don't have said answer, it pretty much shits on you as soon as it's as +1, with the ease to setup not helping either.
Overall, i just think Fraxure is unhealthy for the current meta. It either force the use of specific pokemons, and if you don't, it becomes a broken win condition that really only need 1 boost & doesn't have much trouble getting it. At least suspect it.
Mambo and I have decided to just make an executive decision and ban Fraxure as soon as possible. Its impact on the meta is so unhealthy at the moment due to its lack of counters and VERY small pool of checks. We were going to run a council vote, but after talking to our council in the past, it's quite obvious that they will be 100% for the ban despite not actually voting for it. We all came to the conclusion that Fraxure is dumb at the current state of the metagame, and needs to gtfo.
Reasoning: It's pretty obvious, so I wont go in depth. With Clefairy leaving, Fraxure lost one of its biggest checks that could easily be slapped onto teams, which made it much harder to deal with than it already was. Lapras leaving was also a nuiscanse considering it was bulky enough to take a hit from it and OHKO back as well as a strong Ice Shard to pick off weakened Frax. Even Gigalith could take it on despite being weak to Low Kick, as a well timed Explosion or Stone Edge could wipe it off the face of the earth. When you have to resort to using Ice Cream as a check to something, than you know something is wrong.
With Frax gone, I expect to see an increase in Dragonair usage as it a solid DDer as well as having a decent movepool, and there's also Shelgon which has insanely high physical bulk for a sweeper and is decently strong too. Ironically, I predict a higher Lairon usage due to the fact that Lairon can check most of the Dragon-types in the tier reliably, unlike Fraxure. Simisear and Simisage got a lot better as well, and than of course we can't forget our good pal Electabuzz, which no longer has to worry about being set up bait for one of the best Pokemon in the tier.
Eh I don't really see how Fraxure leaving has made Vibrava any better. I mean, Nair and Shelgon are better because they face zero competition as an offensive Dragon-type, but Vibrava's role doesn't really change much. As an offensive Pokemon, its Attack stat isn't terrible, but unlike Shelgon or Dragonair it has no way of boosting it, nor does it have a multitude of coverage options like Dragonair. If it had DD, it would definitely be a decent offensive cleaner, but with no way of boosting its stats and dependance on Eviolite for bulk, I just don't see how Vibrava is doing anything different with Frax gone. I'd much rather just use it for what it's best known for; a bulky pivot that can remove hazards multiple times throughout the match. It does suck that its favorite teammate Cuno is gone, but its ability to check Simisear, Viper, Klang, Lairon, and Stunfisk so well makes it a solid option still. Despite how much you hate Swanna, it's still by far and away the best offensive defogger with literally zero reliable switch-ins at the moment, and Vibrava pales in comparison to it offensively.
I guess I might as well make a post here considering it's practically dead atm. Here are some very big meta trends that have been popping up:
These Pokemon in particular have been seeing a lot of usage recently, and it shouldn't be that hard to see why. Simisage is amazing right now as a mixed wallbreaker, and it has such a good matchup against most Pokemon found in the tier that it's very difficult to build a team without one. Stunfisk is also one of the best defensive Pokemon at the moment for its ability to check so much of the metagame; Electabuzz, Klang, Viper, Lairon, Metang, and Murkrow just to name a few. It's very fat and is nearly impossible to OHKO on the special side, but even without investment it still has a very solid amount of physical bulk thanks to its impressive HP stat. Much like Electabuzz, it just glues a lot of teams together because of its useful resistances.
Krokorok has always been a top tier threat, but now it seems that its Choice Scarf set has lost a bit of usage in favor for its Pivot set with Intimidate and Eviolite. While Krok isn't the bulkiest Pokemon around even with Eviolite, Intimidate allows it to pivot into the likes of Lairon, Klang, Metang, and even Rampardos to an extent, while maintaining offensive momentum. It has access to a fast Taunt as well as Stealth Rock. Much like its Choice Scarf set, it can Pursuit trap and heavily punish switch-ins with Knock Off, but instead of functioning as a revenge killer/cleaner it acts as more of an offensive pivot that is able to threaten balance teams more effectively. This set is most likely seeing more usage due to the massive increase in Steel-types as well as most teams lacking a switch into Head Smash or other Rock-type moves.
Klang hasn't really gotten any more viable since the new rises (other than maybe Flareon) but it has been getting a lot more love recently. Its RestTalk Shift Gear set is very bulky and can set up on a large majority of the metagame. Stunfisk is a huge problem for it, but with proper support, Klang finds many opportunities to cleave through bulky offense as well as balance. Zweilous loves the lack of Cuno and Lapras in the tier, and its typing is superb in the current metagame. A simple RestTalk set with Crunch is all it needs to be offensively threatening, while the last moveslot is very expendable. My personal favorite is Thunder Wave, as it allows Zweilous to be a douche to more offensive teams or sweepers that may try to set up on Zweilous. Dragon Tail is also fantastic, albeit inaccurate option that works well in conjunction with Quill or Whirl Spike support. There's also Taunt so you can keep things like Lairon, Fisk, or Metang from setting up SR, as well as preventing other Zweilous or Klang from resting.
Rampardos is used a lot because, well, it's a "newer" addition to the tier and a fantastic Pokemon in general. Choice Scarf is a very solid revenge killer/cleaner that hits hard as fuck with Head Smash; even with a Jolly nature it hits 427 Attack. Rock Polish makes it a terrifying late-game sweeper that is difficult to wall considering that it has options such as Sheer Force boosted Ice Beam to bop Gabite and Quill. LO Rock Slide is almost just as strong as Stone Edge, which gives it a much more accurate move to sweep with. And of course, we can't forget its Choice Band set, which isn't as effective at its other sets, but nothing can switch into a Head Smash so that's always cool.
I guess I might as well make a post here considering it's practically dead atm. Here are some very big meta trends that have been popping up:
These Pokemon in particular have been seeing a lot of usage recently, and it shouldn't be that hard to see why. Simisage is amazing right now as a mixed wallbreaker, and it has such a good matchup against most Pokemon found in the tier that it's very difficult to build a team without one. Stunfisk is also one of the best defensive Pokemon at the moment for its ability to check so much of the metagame; Electabuzz, Klang, Viper, Lairon, Metang, and Murkrow just to name a few. It's very fat and is nearly impossible to OHKO on the special side, but even without investment it still has a very solid amount of physical bulk thanks to its impressive HP stat. Much like Electabuzz, it just glues a lot of teams together because of its useful resistances.
Krokorok has always been a top tier threat, but now it seems that its Choice Scarf set has lost a bit of usage in favor for its Pivot set with Intimidate and Eviolite. While Krok isn't the bulkiest Pokemon around even with Eviolite, Intimidate allows it to pivot into the likes of Lairon, Klang, Metang, and even Rampardos to an extent, while maintaining offensive momentum. It has access to a fast Taunt as well as Stealth Rock. Much like its Choice Scarf set, it can Pursuit trap and heavily punish switch-ins with Knock Off, but instead of functioning as a revenge killer/cleaner it acts as more of an offensive pivot that is able to threaten balance teams more effectively. This set is most likely seeing more usage due to the massive increase in Steel-types as well as most teams lacking a switch into Head Smash or other Rock-type moves.
Klang hasn't really gotten any more viable since the new rises (other than maybe Flareon) but it has been getting a lot more love recently. Its RestTalk Shift Gear set is very bulky and can set up on a large majority of the metagame. Stunfisk is a huge problem for it, but with proper support, Klang finds many opportunities to cleave through bulky offense as well as balance. Zweilous loves the lack of Cuno and Lapras in the tier, and its typing is superb in the current metagame. A simple RestTalk set with Crunch is all it needs to be offensively threatening, while the last moveslot is very expendable. My personal favorite is Thunder Wave, as it allows Zweilous to be a douche to more offensive teams or sweepers that may try to set up on Zweilous. Dragon Tail is also fantastic, albeit inaccurate option that works well in conjunction with Quill or Whirl Spike support. There's also Taunt so you can keep things like Lairon, Fisk, or Metang from setting up SR, as well as preventing other Zweilous or Klang from resting.
Rampardos is used a lot because, well, it's a "newer" addition to the tier and a fantastic Pokemon in general. Choice Scarf is a very solid revenge killer/cleaner that hits hard as fuck with Head Smash; even with a Jolly nature it hits 427 Attack. Rock Polish makes it a terrifying late-game sweeper that is difficult to wall considering that it has options such as Sheer Force boosted Ice Beam to bop Gabite and Quill. LO Rock Slide is almost just as strong as Stone Edge, which gives it a much more accurate move to sweep with. And of course, we can't forget its Choice Band set, which isn't as effective at its other sets, but nothing can switch into a Head Smash so that's always cool.
I love Rampardos, the amount of roles this thing actually has is really unexcepted from it.
Through i agree with everything you said, i think the anti lead set also deserves a mention.
Rampardos' access to both Endeavor & Stealth Rock allows him to fullfill this role pretty well, but what sets him appart from others potential setters is Mold Breaker: This ability will allow Rampardos to break through various sturdy threats, and give him the best matchup possible vs Dweeble, a common setter in Spikes stacking offense, which is a really enjoyable niche, but also Lairon, a rather common & potent SR Setter who becomes inoffensive against EQ/Superpower Rampardos.
Endeavor is pretty nice because it allows Rampardos to hinder the pokemons that have a good matchup vs him right before it dies, alternatively, even w/out an item to boost, a Head Smash will definitly hurt them a little bit.
Yeah, rampardos is ridiculously good and very very difficult to check defensively between both its abilities (Mold breaker announcing on switchin is a huge help though). Rock polish sets are also a huge threat to offensive teams with enough power and coverage to 1hko the very large majority of offensive and even balanced threats. It was slept on last time it was here, so its nice that its getting some love now.
Klang is also very good and difficult to stop, and checks a lot of stuff with its typing and bulk, but unfortunately it takes a few boosts to actually hit very hard. Always does some work in a game though.
After the recent banning of Fraxure (finally) from the FU tier, many mons have risen in viability as the whole tier was based of that broken dragon. A common trend was the increase of use of Simisage, as Fraxure was considered a nice check to it before hand. Now after a couple of days, Simisage completely dominates the tier just like Fraxure had beforehand, as it is necessary to carry one or carry a stop to it on any serious FU team. It's diverse movepool coupled with it's good 98 offensive stats makes it a true juggernaut in the tier. It also has a nice base 101 Spd to outpace a good portion of the unboosted metagame.
Since it has this amazing movepool to work with, it can run a variety of different sets to accommodate your team, examples are Hone Claws, Sub Salac, Nasty Plot, and even a stally set with SubSeed. Alot of scouting is needed to know which exact moves it is running on it's different sets.
Here is some matchups it has with the meta's common mons:
Simisage vs Electabuzz:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Electabuzz: 147-173 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Simisage Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Electabuzz: 138-164 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 154-182 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Electabuzz Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 153-181 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Simisage is considered a nice check to Buzz, due to it being able to switch in most of it's moves relatively easily. Although it Buzz is running max Spd, it will be able to outspeed Simisage and proceed to 2HKO it. The matchup depends on what moves the Buzz is running, and the amount of speed invested in it. I would consider it a 50/50 matchup.
Simisage vs Murkrow:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Eviolite Murkrow: 146-174 (45.2 - 53.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Murkrow Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 165-195 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 242-286 (82.8 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This matchup is also interesting, as it also requires on which exact set the Murkrow is running. Simisage will win if it is the CM or Bulky Support set, but will likely lose if it is the Offensive set. I would consider it to be in Simisage's favor however. But it also depends on T-Waves chance to paralyze and such as well.
Simisage vs Quilladin:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 140-166 (43 - 51%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quilladin: 208-247 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Quilladin Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 77-91 (26.3 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
This matchup is quite easy to see what favor it is in. Simisage can easily Knock Off the Quilladin's Eviolite, and proceed to 2HKO it with Gunk Shot. While Quill won't be able to do much in return with Wood Hammer. This matchup is in Simisage's favor.
Simisage vs Simisear:
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 562-663 (192.4 - 227%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisear: 255-302 (87.3 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 205-242 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now vs his cousin Simisear, it is hard to tell. Since both mons fall in with the same Spd of 101, and they are both capable of OHKOing eachother, it all falls down to the speed tie, and who will win it. But to note that Simisear has a way easier time to reliably OHKO Sage, when Sage has to rely on a damage role. Considering that I will say the matchup is in Simisear's favor.
Simisage vs Metang:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Metang: 151-179 (46.6 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Metang: 151-179 (46.6 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metang Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 163-193 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metang Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 73-87 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Another close matchup depending on whether or not the Metang is carrying priority or not. Simisage can effectively 2HKO it with Knock Off, while Metang has a good chance of knocking Sage out first with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch + Life Orb Recoil. After all this however, I would still consider the matchup to be in Simisage's favor.
Simisage can effectively handle most of the meta's top threats, now that some of it's checks and counters in Articuno and Arbok are gone.
Tagging Mambo and Gary2346 to see their opinion on the matter
First of all, I definitely wouldn't compare Simisage to Fraxure. While Simisage may be difficult to check/switch into at times, Frax was literally impossible to beat 1v1 outside of things such as Life Orb Vanilluxe or Metang. Once it set up, and you weren't using Metang, it was game over. Frax could afford to run Dragon Claw as well as Outrage considering that having coverage for a Fairy-type is pointless with Clef gone and the only good Fairy being Wiggly (Spritzee isn't terrible but has horrible offensive presence). On top of that, it could set up on a multitude of shit thanks to its bulk and common resistances. Simisage may be hard to switch into, but Frax was practically uncounterable AND borderline uncheckable, especially after it set up.
Simisage has definitely been on our radar lately, as it boasts some overwhelming qualities, but overall we've found it a lot easier to manage than most of the Pokemon that have previously been banned. Arbok leaving as well as Frax definitely helped Simisage, but Shelgon and Nair are pretty solid checks to it and are on a LOT of teams with Frax gone, and Cuno leaving isn't really relevant considering Sage could just OHKO it with Rock Slide. Speaking of which, I wouldn't ever run Rock Slide anymore on Sage. The only thing you're hitting is Murkrow, which hates getting Knocked Off and LO variants die to Gunk Shot. Superpower is by far its best 4th coverage move so it can bop Klang after it gets Knocked Off as well as Zweilous. Synthesis is also really cool so u can heal on things like Stunfisk, Gogoat, or Tortle.
A Simisage suspect isn't really out of the question, but as of now, I've started to see the meta adapting to it so far. Bulky Whirlipede has been seeing some usage, as it is one of the better Spikers in the tier AND takes nothing from Sage. There's also opposing Scarf Simisage, Scarf Rampardos, Persian, Sash Butterfree, T-wave or Signal Beam Buzz, plenty of priority, very prone to being worn down if not running Synthesis, and of course Simisear in general is an all around great check to Simisage when healthy as Simisage will not want to risk staying in on Simisear unless it want to risk a Rock Slide roll (which again, is a pretty bad move to use at the moment).
All in all, I just see Simisage as a really good Pokemon, not neccesarily borked. I'd just like to give it more time in the meta before I go about banning it, especially so soon after Frax leaving. Unlike Frax, the meta can definitely adapt to Sage and has been adapting to it. I also want to see what this new tier shift coming up brings to the table (there's actually a decent chance of it rising to PU anyway going off the previous stats).
After the recent banning of Fraxure (finally) from the FU tier, many mons have risen in viability as the whole tier was based of that broken dragon. A common trend was the increase of use of Simisage, as Fraxure was considered a nice check to it before hand. Now after a couple of days, Simisage completely dominates the tier just like Fraxure had beforehand, as it is necessary to carry one or carry a stop to it on any serious FU team. It's diverse movepool coupled with it's good 98 offensive stats makes it a true juggernaut in the tier. It also has a nice base 101 Spd to outpace a good portion of the unboosted metagame.
Since it has this amazing movepool to work with, it can run a variety of different sets to accommodate your team, examples are Hone Claws, Sub Salac, Nasty Plot, and even a stally set with SubSeed. Alot of scouting is needed to know which exact moves it is running on it's different sets.
Here is some matchups it has with the meta's common mons:
Simisage vs Electabuzz:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Electabuzz: 147-173 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Simisage Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Electabuzz: 138-164 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 154-182 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Electabuzz Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 153-181 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Simisage is considered a nice check to Buzz, due to it being able to switch in most of it's moves relatively easily. Although it Buzz is running max Spd, it will be able to outspeed Simisage and proceed to 2HKO it. The matchup depends on what moves the Buzz is running, and the amount of speed invested in it. I would consider it a 50/50 matchup.
Simisage vs Murkrow:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Eviolite Murkrow: 146-174 (45.2 - 53.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Murkrow Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 165-195 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 242-286 (82.8 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This matchup is also interesting, as it also requires on which exact set the Murkrow is running. Simisage will win if it is the CM or Bulky Support set, but will likely lose if it is the Offensive set. I would consider it to be in Simisage's favor however. But it also depends on T-Waves chance to paralyze and such as well.
Simisage vs Quilladin:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 140-166 (43 - 51%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quilladin: 208-247 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Quilladin Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 77-91 (26.3 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
This matchup is quite easy to see what favor it is in. Simisage can easily Knock Off the Quilladin's Eviolite, and proceed to 2HKO it with Gunk Shot. While Quill won't be able to do much in return with Wood Hammer. This matchup is in Simisage's favor.
Simisage vs Simisear:
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 562-663 (192.4 - 227%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisear: 255-302 (87.3 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simisage: 205-242 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now vs his cousin Simisear, it is hard to tell. Since both mons fall in with the same Spd of 101, and they are both capable of OHKOing eachother, it all falls down to the speed tie, and who will win it. But to note that Simisear has a way easier time to reliably OHKO Sage, when Sage has to rely on a damage role. Considering that I will say the matchup is in Simisear's favor.
Simisage vs Metang:
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Metang: 151-179 (46.6 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Metang: 151-179 (46.6 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metang Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 163-193 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metang Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 73-87 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Another close matchup depending on whether or not the Metang is carrying priority or not. Simisage can effectively 2HKO it with Knock Off, while Metang has a good chance of knocking Sage out first with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch + Life Orb Recoil. After all this however, I would still consider the matchup to be in Simisage's favor.
Simisage can effectively handle most of the meta's top threats, now that some of it's checks and counters in Articuno and Arbok are gone.
Tagging Mambo and Gary2346 to see their opinion on the matter
Doing calcs versus the top mons isn't an indication of whether something is broken, it's more an on paper analysis as opposed to how things function in a game. My main issue with these is that they more show how simi isn't too broken. It loses 1v1 to both max def and max attack metang with rocks up (saying it's in simisage's favor is just wrong, read the calcs). Simisear speed ties and KOs with a more accurate move. Buzz outspeeds and revenges with a little prior damage (not hard with rocks and LO), especially if it has signal beam. Sage has to tread very carefully around Murkrow since you calc'd LO foul play and not sucker punch, which is much more realistic (it still threatens support but even then Twave cripples it and forces it to hit a paralyzed gunk shot). And the one mon it can beat can synthesis stall gunk shot and hope for misses 1v1, or has a good chance to take two hits without rocks and get a spike or a super fang. Sage is good, a suspect is something to consider, I just don't think those calcs really do any good in supporting brokenness.
Yeah, I don't feel simisage is broken, it has a fair amount of answers for defensive playstyles and isn't quite fast enough to destroy offense, and with this it takes a lot from the common forms of priority. It just strikes me as a very good mon with good match ups vs the common playstyles.
Noctowl @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia / Tinted Lens
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Toxic / Night Shade
- Roost
- Defog
Everyone knows how much I hate Butterfree, and I've found Noctowl to be a perfect check to it. With Insmonia it can't be put to Sleep with Sleep Powder, and because of its very high special bulk even a +1 Tinted Lens Bug Buzz is only doing like 37% max. I still slashed Tinted Lens with Insomina because if you're not using Noctowl as you dedicated Butterfree check (if you have a Buzz for example) than I prefer Tinted Lens so you can at least deal solid damage to Electric- and Steel-types on the switch. Toxic is mostly a filler but allows it to poison Buzz and Fisk on the switch which wall it otherwise. Night Shade is also a viable option as it hits everything for neutral damage and keeps it from being a complete sitting duck against Lairon, Klang, or Buzz. Noctowl isn't only useful for walling Butterfree, as its massive bulk allows it to be a great check to Viper, Swanna, Simisear, Heatmor, Wigglytuff, Servine, and special Dragonair. And of course, it can Defog, so that's cool too.
Girafarig is something that I've been wanting to try using again for a long time and so far it has really impressed me. While it appears mostly outclassed by other Psychic-types such as Swoobat, its useful Grass-type immunity as well as Baton Pass makes it an outstanding offensive supporter that is not only threatening on its own, but it can also pass boosts to teammates against Pokemon it can't muscle through, such as Metang, Klang, Zweilous, and Lairon. Hyper Voice gives it good neutral coverage against Dark-types such as Krow, Zweilous, and Scraggy, while being its primary form of STAB. Shadow Ball has the best neutral coverage with Hyper Voice, as it allows Girafarig to hit Steel-types for solid damage and Metang in particular. Psychic doesn't really provide it with too much useful coverage, as Poison-types are rare, Viper is OHKOed by by a unboosted Hyper Voice, and most Steel/Rock types are going to be 2HKOed by Shadow Ball anyway. This set pairs really well with Simisear, Golduck, and even Electabuzz, as both of them can wear down each others checks (passing Buzz a +2 boost against a Klang for example while Giraf heavily weakens Stunfisk). Modest would give it a lot more firepower, but being outsped by Timid Butterfree is disgusting, especially with how good it is at the moment.
OK so apologies if this is super off topic for the threat but where are you guys typically finding games? I've been eyeing up the FUego Ironworks but without being able to play some practise games and test stuff it's really hard to put together a team you're confident in.
So that this isn't a worthless post: What do you guys think the best offensive partner for BU Gogoat is? It's a set I've been really wanting to build around but TBH I haven't put a whole ton of thought into what it's best paired. Obviously depending on the coverage you're running you'll want to eliminate either Poison/Steel mons or Flying-types, but outside of trying to do something fancy with Diglett or Trapinch and a U-turner I don't have much in the way of ideas.
OK so apologies if this is super off topic for the threat but where are you guys typically finding games? I've been eyeing up the FUego Ironworks but without being able to play some practise games and test stuff it's really hard to put together a team you're confident in.
So that this isn't a worthless post: What do you guys think the best offensive partner for BU Gogoat is? It's a set I've been really wanting to build around but TBH I haven't put a whole ton of thought into what it's best paired. Obviously depending on the coverage you're running you'll want to eliminate either Poison/Steel mons or Flying-types, but outside of trying to do something fancy with Diglett or Trapinch and a U-turner I don't have much in the way of ideas.
