Pokémon Froslass

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Hail Magikarp

Hail Magikarp

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Pokedex number: #478
Type: Ice/Ghost
Base stats: 70 HP/80 ATT/ 70 DEF/ 80 sp.ATT/ 70 sp.DEF/ 110 Spe
Abillity: Snow cloak
Abillity(DW): Cursed body

Notable moves:
Spikes
Destiny bond
Thunder wawe
Shadow ball
Ice beam
Pshychic
Thunderbolt
Icy wind
Confuse ray
Taunt
Light screen

Overwiew

Froslass has always been a odd pokemon, with no notable stat except for her speed one might be wondering what Froslass can do in te harsh OU enviorment. Fear not as this dead kimono dancer still has a few tricks up her slew, being the only ghost type pokemon wit acess to spikes she is the only pokemon capable of spinblocking her own hazards. This combined with an extensive suppport movepool including taunt,destiny bond, confuse ray, disably and icy wind combined with a great speed stat of 110 allow Froslass to pull her weight in a match.

However the good news ends there as froslass is ver frail meaning most attacks will
2HKO her, not only that but she is very weak to 2 of the most notable priority users in OU right now. Bisharp easliy OHKO her with either iron head and sucker punch and Scizor is in te same boat capable OHKO her with a bullet punch ( not to mention she is almost OHKO choice banded aqua jet from azumarill). Lastly due to Froslass predictabillity when the opponent sees her in the team prewiew the know she will lead.
Despite all of this Froslas will often due its job and might even nab a KO in the process due to Desriny bond

Suicide spike lead
Froslass @ focus sash
Abillity: Cused body
IVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Spikes
-Destiny bond
-Taunt
-Ice beam/Shadow ball/icy wind

Spikes is the crux of this set as due to froslass speed she will more often then not get atleast 2 layers of spikes on the field. Taunt is there to prevent ure opponent from setting up their own hazards or status that can annoy Froslass, Destiny bond ls there as a last ditch move when u know u cant do anything else and can help froslass force switches allowing here to set up all the spikes u need. The last moveslot is debatable, ice beam attains wider SE coverage while Shadow ball attains overall more coverage, ice beam takes care of te many dragons in the many dragons in the tier and allows it to maim Landorus.

Billy spike lead
Froslass Leftovers
Abillity: Cursed body
IVs: 224 HP/ 108 Def/ 176 Spd
Nature: Timid
-Spikes/Taunt
-Thunder wawe
-Ice beam/ Icy wind
-Pain split/ Taunt

This particular Froslass set is indeed quite unusual, a bulky set on a pokemon this frail??? Actually this ev spread allow her to souck up quite a of hits from the psychical spectrum.

Her are some calcs to prove it

252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 224 HP / 108 Def Froslass: 252-296 (74.7 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 224 HP / 108 Def Froslass: 168-198 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
170 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 224 HP / 108 Def Froslass: 178-211 (52.8 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Surviving very powerful hits from some top tier OU pokemon is ver good aswell as SE hits to boot.
On to the set it is focused to come in on many pshychal pokemon and do its thing. Spikes should always be used on froslass IMO as it is One of her maim selling points but if u have another spiker on the team or just dont feel like u need them Taunt is very good option to shut down walls such as Chansey and many leads. Thunder wawe is there for obvious resdons as it renders many offensive pokemon and set up sweepers useless and is an overall great support move for ure team to have. Ice beam is a good move for the third slot as thunder wawe already slows down alot of pokemon and the power difference between Icy wind and ice beam is quite notable, despite this isy wind is still a solid option due to its abillity to slow down ground and speedy electric types as thunder wawe fails to hit them. Most notable ones being Thundurus, mega manectric and Landorus-Therian.
For the last slot pain split is the preffered option for the last slot as it gives froslass a semi reliable recovery move, but if u choosed Spikes in the first slot Taunt is still a good move for reasons said above.












Final thoughts

As a true froslass fan i encourage u to experiment with different sets such as choice specs, a more defensive set consisting of pain split, thunder wave, icy wind and spikes is duable but other pokemon do this better. There really isent much more that froslass can use but try to experimemt with it and post what u got.
 
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The Shellder Smuggler said:
With base 110 speed, it may not be as much of a threat for Froslass.
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I believe icy wind is meant to support the team, especially since the given Froslass set is not meant to survive a 1v1 match-up.

The lass is a very effective user of Switcheroo, and can find a niche in OU akin to Klefki with Switcheroo/Spikes, but her inferior bulk and typing work against her.

A set with more defensive investment could make for an interesting pivot for those who need a spin blocker who could further the hazard setting momentum, but she doesn't send a very threatening message to common cores, now that the Lati twins are falling.
 
DC-Shadow_Blaze said:
Maybe he should slash that spread with an alternative item, so's to preserve the usability of the suicide lead's focus sash?

Also, I would suggest moving the 4 hp into Def/SpDef to keep Froslass' HP on an odd number for late game destiny bonding/sacking.
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+1

Anyways, a set missing here is the choice specs set.

froslass.gif


Froslass
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
 
Hell_Above said:
IMO, Froslass is a MUCH better Spikes suicide lead over an all-out-attacker. It's kinda like a weird version of Klefki... well without Prankster. I think however, it's more suited to UU than OU, due to its mediocre SpA and Atk. It's bulk is acceptable, but it has a pretty bad defensive typing. It also has slight competition from Cofagrigus (who, this generation, received Toxic Spikes. I know Spikes and Toxic Spikes are NOT the same moves. Don't lecture me on that. >.>) who is much bulkier. I know these two Poke's have entirely different purposes, but I don't really like a 'Mon who just comes out and dies. Froslass is solid UU, but OU might be a stretch due to Klefki's Prankter Spikes.
Click to expand...

Of course, you do raise a good point, the specs set was another option. I would put calcs, but I'm not sure if they're relevant.
 
Hell_Above said:
IMO, Froslass is a MUCH better Spikes suicide lead over an all-out-attacker. It's kinda like a weird version of Klefki... well without Prankster. I think however, it's more suited to UU than OU, due to its mediocre SpA and Atk. It's bulk is acceptable, but it has a pretty bad defensive typing. It also has slight competition from Cofagrigus (who, this generation, received Toxic Spikes. I know Spikes and Toxic Spikes are NOT the same moves. Don't lecture me on that. >.>) who is much bulkier. I know these two Poke's have entirely different purposes, but I don't really like a 'Mon who just comes out and dies. Froslass is solid UU, but OU might be a stretch due to Klefki's Prankter Spikes.
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An intresting thing to note is that swagkey got nerfed due to the swagger ban and that was IMO One if its bigger sets. But i totally understand where u are Comming from, froslass faces stiff competition from klefki which has acces to both prankster and Spikes. Froslass is indeed a hard Pokemon to fit into a set it can still stand tall with many OU pokemons due to its large support movepool and a blazing fast taunt
 
252+ SpA Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 236-282 (55.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 236-282 (90.4 - 108%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 208-246 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 103-123 (29.2 - 34.9%) -- 10.6% chance to 3HKO

Not impressive, but could some work in UU
 
The Shellder Smuggler said:
252+ SpA Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 236-282 (55.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 236-282 (90.4 - 108%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 208-246 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 103-123 (29.2 - 34.9%) -- 10.6% chance to 3HKO

Not impressive, but could some work in UU
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If its not to much WORK could u do this calcs with a choice specs on this so i can add a bit to the specs set??? If not then thats okay.
 
NEW CALCS:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 356-420 (136.3 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 356-420 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 312-368 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 154-183 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO

It does well in UU, that's for sure, but could do serious damage facing OU pokemon such as the ones listed.
 
The Shellder Smuggler said:
NEW CALCS:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 356-420 (136.3 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 356-420 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 312-368 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 154-183 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO

It does well in UU, that's for sure, but could do serious damage facing OU pokemon such as the ones listed.
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Appreciate it
 
I have a hard time imagining why you would ever use this thing in any role over Greninja. Spinblocking isn't really relevant with the rise of defog, and, if you want to be really gimmicky, you can give Greninja spikes and shadow sneak so it can spin block. Or, better yet, give it spikes and hydro pump so it can beat the only relevant spinner in OU, while still getting a faster taunt than Froslass. Greninja is also much stronger; timid specs or modest LO Greninja both hit harder than modest specs Froslass, and are both still faster than it. The only real reason I can see in using Froslass over Greninja is the fact that it gets Dbond, but that doesn't really seem to bridge the massive gap between these two; give me faster pokemon with just as much (or little) bulk, a far superior ability, much more power, and even access to U-Turn and Tspikes over the fast Dbond. And all this is not to mention both OU Deoxys forms, which are even better at hazard laying.

Buuuuut anyway, if you absolutely insist on using specs Froslass for w/e reason, I feel like it should use Switcheroo over Psychic on the specs set. But seriously, unless I'm really underestimating Destiny Bond, I just wouldn't use Froslass.

EDIT: I forgot that Mega Blastoise was another OU viable rapid spinner besides Excadrill, and perhaps Froslass can outdo Greninja in this case; Blastoise can surely OHKO with dark pulse, but it has to fear Dbond and it can't spin in the mean time. But if MBlastoise is your entire justification for using Froslass, then you have a rather poor justification as I see it.
 
Froslass
Timid 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 SPE
Cursed Body
Bright Powder / Leftovers
-Confuse Ray
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute
-Spikes / Shadow Ball / Destiny Bond

Yes or Yes? This is what I would use in this meta-- could be fun (or just plain evil...).
 
zyzzyva said:
I have a hard time imagining why you would ever use this thing in any role over Greninja. Spinblocking isn't really relevant with the rise of defog, and, if you want to be really gimmicky, you can give Greninja spikes and shadow sneak so it can spin block. Or, better yet, give it spikes and hydro pump so it can beat the only relevant spinner in OU, while still getting a faster taunt than Froslass. Greninja is also much stronger; timid specs or modest LO Greninja both hit harder than modest specs Froslass, and are both still faster than it. The only real reason I can see in using Froslass over Greninja is the fact that it gets Dbond, but that doesn't really seem to bridge the massive gap between these two; give me faster pokemon with just as much (or little) bulk, a far superior ability, much more power, and even access to U-Turn and Tspikes over the fast Dbond. And all this is not to mention both OU Deoxys forms, which are even better at hazard laying.

Buuuuut anyway, if you absolutely insist on using specs Froslass for w/e reason, I feel like it should use Switcheroo over Psychic on the specs set. But seriously, unless I'm really underestimating Destiny Bond, I just wouldn't use Froslass.

EDIT: I forgot that Mega Blastoise was another OU viable rapid spinner besides Excadrill, and perhaps Froslass can outdo Greninja in this case; Blastoise can surely OHKO with dark pulse, but it has to fear Dbond and it can't spin in the mean time. But if MBlastoise is your entire justification for using Froslass, then you have a rather poor justification as I see it.
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Well u should never use a specs on Greninja because it needs to switch moves because u know........Protean. And Also what do u mean with better bulk? Greninja has 72/67/71 while froslass has 70/80/80 so is seems like froslass is the one with superior bulk. Another thing u Said is that Excadrill and M-stoise are the only relevant spinners well u forgot Starmie who is still a good spinner. Also Froslass specs can beat both M-stoise and Starmie and often Excadrill due to his quite low bulk. Greninja has no way of braking through M-stoise


252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 129-152 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

His strongest move fail to even 2HKO while froslass.....


252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 164-195 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
so with rocks up it is a guaranteed 2HKO and with specs its a clean 2HKO


252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 196-231 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
After rocks its a 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 564-665 (133 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Yeah a OHKO from Greninja but the thing is if exca switches in on rocks froslass Will almost always 2HKO

So Yeah Greninja and Froslass does just as good vs the 2 most relevant spinners. Also on another topic rapid spin is just as used as defog because most players want to keep their own Hazards on the Fields
 
Hail Magikarp said:
Well u should never use a specs on Greninja because it needs to switch moves because u know........Protean. And Also what do u mean with better bulk? Greninja has 72/67/71 while froslass has 70/80/80 so is seems like froslass is the one with superior bulk. Another thing u Said is that Excadrill and M-stoise are the only relevant spinners well u forgot Starmie who is still a good spinner. Also Froslass specs can beat both M-stoise and Starmie and often Excadrill due to his quite low bulk. Greninja has no way of braking through M-stoise
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Specs on Greninja is MUCH more viable than on Froslass, though I wouldn't run it on either of them as personal preference. Protean still gives you STAB on everything, making Greninja's choice attacks hit that much harder. His special attack and speed are way better too and he has superior coverage. Bulk isn't really an issue here thanks to Greninja's speed and ability to change typing, which is much more beneficial than slightly higher defensive stats. His strongest attack changes him to a pure water type, a very good defensive typing. Froslass' meager attacks and lower speed means she misses that many more KOs (what's the point of bulk if Greninja can just KO its target?), forcing her to switch out or take a beating. She doesn't even get the benefit of better STAB attacks since Greninja's Ice Beam / Dark Pulse are the same BP as Froslass'. Specs definitely isn't what you should be using Froslass for.

As for your calcs against M-Blastoise: he can OHKO her back, it requires Stealth Rock already being up for her to reliably take him down AND for her to take Thunderbolt when she barely has room for a single attacking move on her spikes set in the first place. And just so you know, Greninja often takes Grass Knot.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 320-377 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

The OHKO Greninja gets on Excadrill is more important since he's much more relevant in OU than M-Blastoise is (whose usage was about 1/5th of Excadrill's in Feb). You also didn't mention that Starmie's got a chance to OHKO Froslass if she's carrying Hydro Pump, while Greninja doesn't have to worry about her since he's faster (Grass Knot being a guaranteed OHKO on her).
 
The Shellder Smuggler said:
+1

Anyways, a set missing here is the choice specs set.

froslass.gif


Froslass
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
Click to expand...

Shouldn't destiny bond be used over psychic because psychic doesn't add anything notable to Froslass's coverage aside from mega Venusaur and destiny bond gives you a guarantead KO on some threats.
 
Snotjoch said:
Shouldn't destiny bond be used over psychic because psychic doesn't add anything notable to Froslass's coverage aside from mega Venusaur and destiny bond gives you a guarantead KO on some threats.
Click to expand...

Psychic is more M-Venu but it is mainly for conkeldurr, and other fighting types. You could use switcheroo or destiny bond, too
 
Hail Magikarp said:
Well u should never use a specs on Greninja because it needs to switch moves because u know........Protean. And Also what do u mean with better bulk? Greninja has 72/67/71 while froslass has 70/80/80 so is seems like froslass is the one with superior bulk. Another thing u Said is that Excadrill and M-stoise are the only relevant spinners well u forgot Starmie who is still a good spinner. Also Froslass specs can beat both M-stoise and Starmie and often Excadrill due to his quite low bulk. Greninja has no way of braking through M-stoise


252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 129-152 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

His strongest move fail to even 2HKO while froslass.....


252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 164-195 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
so with rocks up it is a guaranteed 2HKO and with specs its a clean 2HKO


252 SpA Life Orb Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 196-231 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
After rocks its a 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 564-665 (133 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Yeah a OHKO from Greninja but the thing is if exca switches in on rocks froslass Will almost always 2HKO

So Yeah Greninja and Froslass does just as good vs the 2 most relevant spinners. Also on another topic rapid spin is just as used as defog because most players want to keep their own Hazards on the Fields
Click to expand...

First of all, your stats on Froslass's defenses are flat wrong. Froslass's defenses are 70/70/70, which all three add up to 210... the same as Greninja's at 72/67/71. Note that I never said Greninja had superior bulk, but rather that both Greninja and Froslass are equally frail, which is true. Cpmd addressed Greninja's superior attacking prowess in comparison to Froslass well enough, so I won't beat that dead horse, but I will just say that rapid spin is nowhere nearly as common as defog. Starmie, Forretress, Donphan, and Tentacruel all just recently fell to UU, while MBlastoise has been there all along, which just goes to show how irrelevant rapid spin has become with the rise of defog.
 
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