How influential do you think Rocky Helmet's popularity is to Genesect? I've seen plenty of Rocky Helm Skarm/Ferro/Garchomp lately, and Genesect doesn't appreciate U-Turning into that. U-Turn was a messed up zero risk move but with Rocky Helm Garchomps running around, there's a pretty big cost to U-Turn spam. Instead of just gaining free momentum, Genesect players need to proceed with caution and predict well. Notice all 3 Rocky Helm users I listed get demolished by Gene's special attacks, so there's a risk to both sides and both players can actually do something to punish the other
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Other Freed Ubers
- Thread starter Talpr0ne
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While Rocky Helmet Garchomp is a cool fuck you to U-turn Genesect, I honestly think the real culprit for the high usage in RestTalk Rocky Helmet Garchomp is due to Mega Kangaskhan, who takes a huge chunk of damage every time it hits Garchomp. Still, RestTalk Garchomp does some serious work against Volt-Turn teams, but it still needs to watch out for Ice Beam on Genesect.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates Genesect's presence in XY OU so far. Based on the 400 or so games that I've played so far, I find he is a fantastic offensive check to a plethora of threats in the tier, but is not nearly the same beast he was in the previous gen, due to the Steel defensive nerf and the introduction of new powerful priority attacks since he was last legal. I hope we take our time with suspect testing him, since I feel like the surprisingly balanced state of the current metagame (bar broken threats like Mega Kangaskhan, Deoxys-S, and arguably Mega Gengar and Deoxys-D) could be thrown off if he goes.
Plus, with the new Defog mechanics and the introduction of new toys like Scizorite and Assault Vest, I don't think the argument that Genesect purely outclasses Scizor holds any weight.
Plus, with the new Defog mechanics and the introduction of new toys like Scizorite and Assault Vest, I don't think the argument that Genesect purely outclasses Scizor holds any weight.
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I don't use it because I actually use both stealth rock and rapid spin on my exca, and eved it so that it just survives a life orb fb from gengar, but with assault vest instead I think it would be pretty good also. Like i said, it would let you simply beat stuff like gengar, and handily beat rotom w. It also laughs at flamethrowers from stuff like genesect and most neutral special attacks. Excadrill has naturally alot of hp, so augmenting its pitiful special defense makes it quite a formidable special tank.
I honestly dont see the deoxys forms being broken at all this gen. Deoxys d is essentially an aegislash in shield form that can't do anything offensively in exchange for recovery and hazard laying, along with much worse typing. It's still pretty much setup bait for sweepers and of course, hazards in general got alot worse with defog. Same arguement for deoxys s, which I actually am liking as an all out attacker more.
People are seriously underestimating RP lando, paired with M-gengar you can pretty much faceroll to 2k and beyond lol
Excadrill looks like it has no reason to return to Ubers with the loss of permanent Sand. It just looks like it a solid OU Pokemon now.
I guess I could see it as a special tank if you completely topped out its SpD and slapped assault vest on it. What's the popular natures now? Still Jolly & Adamant?
I guess I could see it as a special tank if you completely topped out its SpD and slapped assault vest on it. What's the popular natures now? Still Jolly & Adamant?
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Jolly max attack speed /w mold breaker is the best set.
Edit - and on a balloon
Edit - and on a balloon
I played a couple battles on Showdown! and as it turns out, genesect is an offensive threat, but far from op. While U-turn is annoying, rough skin chomp, or iron barbs ferrothorn can keep it in check pretty well.
Excadrill is not that much of a problem. It's for sure staying in OU. I don't know about Landourus, that sheer force life orb is pretty scary.
I can't justify assault vest Excadrill. air balloon is more useful, and i feel like the vest is pointless.
Excadrill is not that much of a problem. It's for sure staying in OU. I don't know about Landourus, that sheer force life orb is pretty scary.
I can't justify assault vest Excadrill. air balloon is more useful, and i feel like the vest is pointless.
I hope deo forms remain OU this time, it makes HO fun to play. I have my doubts though it's staying whichc sucks :(
Yeah, that's the thing. As long as Mega Kanga is allowed to terrorize OU, people will try Rocky Helm sets, so the existence of Mega Kanga indirectly hurts Genesect (not to mention the fact that it directly hurts Gene as well...). I think Rocky Helm vs Genesect is a really cool matchup. First time Genesect comes in, I'll hurt it with Rocky Helm and it would take some godly predictions for him to look at my team, identify my Garchomp as a Rocky Helm user and nail me with Ice Beam. However, the second time Genesect comes onto the field, he'll be aware of my Rocky Helm switch-in and we can mind-game one another. Is Garchomp coming? Shall I Ice Beam? What if he knows that I know Garchomp is coming and goes into an Ice resist?
Same goes with Rocky Helm Skarm/Ferro with Flamethrower. In these particular matchups, U-Turn is no longer an auto-momentum button, but a high reward move you have to use with care.
Kanga's presence is really having a neat effect on volt-turn spamming. It's still a great strategy and in no way does it make Genesect bad, but in certain matchups it now takes a lot more thought
To anyone who uses a purely physical or special shift gear genesect set, your doing it wrong. Mixed gear sect is the way to go. The amazing thing about it is that either boost is useful for it, which gives it many more setup opportunities. The set is shift gear, iron head (sooooo powerful at + 2 and still strong at + 1, flamethrower(completely necessary in this meta) and either extreme speed (if your not a fan of talon flame or sucker punchers (cough cough mega kanga), energy ball/gigs drain ( if your not a fan of washing machines or bulky waters in general), or tbolt if you don't like bulky waters but want to touch fire types. I'm not sure about the spread, but mixed gear genesect is really good, and probably the best non mega sweeper there is
Even if it was true it wouldn't really have any relevance to Genesect being banned because that's not how the tiering process works. Kyogre isn't banned because it purely outclasses (insert 90% of water types here), it's banned because it's too good for the OU tier. If Genesect purely outclassed Scizor in every way but wasn't scary enough for Ubers, then Scizor would just fall to UU. Well, probably BL because UU Scizor would be absolutely terrifying, but that's besides the point.
I find Genesect to be pretty useful still but it's definitely a far cry from its heyday in BW2. I enjoy having him back. I haven't played too much with the others besides Excadrill, which I've had some fun with Sand Rush for. It doesn't completely shatter teams like it used to but it's still pretty good.
I know that, but a lot of people were uncomfortable with the fact that Scizor was being outclassed for the most part while Genny was legal last gen. It wasn't my central point, but regardless, I felt like the new toys Scizor received this gen needed to be mentioned, even if they're not directly correlated with Genny's placement.
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I like how people feel comfortable into switching rocky helm chomp into gene and saying that it's one of the reasons gene isn't as good last gen. It might be unable to spam uturn as freely might hurt it but I fail to see how switching rocky helm chomp/ferro into a mon that could predict the switch and ohko either one with ice beam and flamethrower respectively.
One new thing Genesect will have to deal with is two users of priority T-wave, Klefki and Thundurus, neither of which were present during Genesect's time in BW2 OU. While Klefki isn't all that great, especially when Deo-S and D are around to outclass it, Thundurus certainly is. Weak to RP Genesect? Just slap a Thundurus-I, or to a lesser extent banded Talonflame on your team and you're good to go. In general, as with Landorus-I, I find RP Genesect to be a lot less effective this time around with the abundance of new or newly viable priority users in Talonflame, Azumarill, Mega Kangaskhan and Mawile, Aegislash, and the aforementioned pranksters. However, it is affected a lot less by the nerf to its common coverage moves than Lando-I, and it does have its new event moves to work with, so it's hard to say exactly how good it will turn out to be. Also, while it does give Scizor a bit of competition for a teamslot, IIRC Scizor was still top 10 even when Genesect was getting over 20% usage, so saying it will go anywhere near BL now is a bit ridiculous.
I agree, Excadrill seems to be pretty balanced and versatile, even the threat of the occasional Sand Rush only makes more attractive. It was a bit sad to see Exca go the last Gen only because of weather abuse, I always thought he was great and healthy for the meta with Moldbreaker.
In my opinion only Exca deserves to be freed since he was basically BASED on permanent weather.
(Same would count for Manaphy... If it wasn't for Tail Glow...)
All other mons which have been proffiting from it, but also would've deserved ueber tier for their base-stats alone.
Maybe coming from lower tiers makes me value this more, but hell - I can't see why those former uebers suddenly are supposed to compare with old OU mons...
(Same would count for Manaphy... If it wasn't for Tail Glow...)
All other mons which have been proffiting from it, but also would've deserved ueber tier for their base-stats alone.
Maybe coming from lower tiers makes me value this more, but hell - I can't see why those former uebers suddenly are supposed to compare with old OU mons...
Being trying a really funny Deoxys-S set (basically hazards, and Modest 252 Psycho Boost dumped in for shits and giggles). Psycho Boost is funny. If Deoxys somehow survives earlygame, it becomes a pretty adept revenge killer.
Umm, every single time I mentioned Rocky Helm, I also mentioned Gene can predict and it becomes a prediction game instead of "click U-Turn for free advantage." I don't see a post saying Rocky Helm users (including Ferro and Skarm) are safe switch-ins.
Deoxys-S, IMO, is actually a bit worse than Klefki. Klefki has Spikes, Dual screens, and Thunder Wave with Prankster, as well as Foul Play, better bulk, better typing by miles, can threaten Swagger, and more. Deoxys-S only has slightly better offenses with Psycho Boost and Superpower, but his typing is the reason he runs Superpower. Klefki can actually threaten common threats like Aegislash with its Foul Play, so it doesn't matter about Klefki's own offenses. Also Prankster lets you Screen on anything. It's a bit weak to Taunt but at least it can get up at least one screen in front of stuff like Sableye, which could really end up mattering. Plus you can switch in later too.
Deoxys-D plays differently than Klefki.
Deoxys-D plays differently than Klefki.
Deoxys-S's access to Taunt and Stealth Rock makes a world of difference, AOPSUser. Taunt prevents Defoggers from being a full stop to it, while access to Stealth Rock puts immediate pressure on the opponent's team.
I would consider Klefki to be much more fair than any of the Deoxys-formes.
I would consider Klefki to be much more fair than any of the Deoxys-formes.
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Defoggers are quite a bit less common than Rapid Spinners in my experience. Also most of them are Flying-type, so the good ones you have are stuff like Skarmory and Scizor. Plus if you have to switch in your Skarmory to get rid of my Reflect that could be the turn I need to set up Talonflame. It's quite easy to stop Defog with offensive pressure, just like Rapid Spin.
And I'd like to see how Crobat matches up against Thunder Wave/Foul Play.
Not to mention Deoxys-S is already so stuffed in terms of moveslots that if it uses SR+Spikes+Taunt it can't Dual Screen, and so on.
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