Metagame Flipped

[flying moose]

The Council has decided to quickban Blissey and Azumarill.

Blissey is the fastest pokemon possible with 255 Speed. This isn't necessarily broken by itself, but Blissey combines this with a stellar 135 Attack stat and a truly ridiculous physical movepool, with Earthquake, Drain Punch, the elemental punches, and Zen Headbutt among its options. While it lacks Dark or Ghost moves as blanket attacks against Ghost counters, it can still hit the best ones super effectively on their secondary typing--Dragapult, Chandelure, and Gengar can all be 2HKO'd by Banded Ice Punch/Earthquake. This limits reliable defensive counterplay to an extremely small group of pokemon like Eviolite Haunter, base Rotom, Polteageist, and Mimikyu, all of whom are otherwise niche or downright unviable. On top of all this, Blissey can abuse STAB Serene Grace Body Slam, or even Body Slam + Headbutt, to hax its way through all non-Ghost defensive pokemon. Meanwhile, offensive counterplay is entirely limited to priority and Choice Scarf Snorlax. These traits make Blissey uncompetitive for the tier.

Azumarill plays like a nasty combination of three of the best wallbreakers in the game. It has the power, ability, and setup potential of Diggersby, the Fairy and Water STAB of Sylveon and Dracovish, and the powerful priority of Sylveon, yet Azumarill is faster than all of them. At 100 speed, it outpaces the vast majority of the metagame, and with its dual STAB, it can whiz past many of the pokemon that keep Sylveon or Dracovish in check. Only Roserade can stand up to Azumarill's dual STABs, but even it is 2HKO'd by Banded Ice Punch. This isn't even considering the possibility of Azumarill using Belly Drum. As such, Azumarill simply has too much power to be fair in the Flipped metagame.

Tagging urkerab to implement these changes on ROM, and tagging The Immortal so the bans can be implemented next time we have a ladder. Thank you to both.

The council has also voted to hold off on a Chansey ban at this time. While Chansey shares Blissey's unbeatable speed, great movepool, and Serene Grace, an attack stat of 105 is much more manageable. This makes it slightly weaker than Snorlax, making the two quite comparable. Of the two, Chansey simply goes from "extremely hard to outspeed" to "impossible to outspeed" at the cost of a little power. Unlike Snorlax, Chansey also lacks the ability to boost its attack. We will still be keeping an eye on Chansey due to its wider movepool and Serene Grace, but for now we would like to see how it plays.

 

[flying moose]

Now that Crown Tundra and Isle of Armor are both out, we can start to theorize about the new Flipped metagame with much better clarity. Rather than commenting on any specific new pokemon and the changes they bring, I want to look at how the new releases have changed the supply of major teambuilding archetypes.

I will be noting various teambuilding functions and listing pokemon that fulfill each role. Those that I list after ... are pokemon who fit the archetype but appear to have some deficiencies that I suspect will make them less viable..

At the end of May, the Flipped metagame was centralized mainly around three pokemon: Sylveon, Rhyperior, and Espeon. Winning games largely depended on stopping, outmaneuvering, or breaking through these three mons. How does the influx of new pokemon affect the efficacy of these three?

Sylveon Counters
Pre-Existing...
New Defensive w/ Recovery...
New Defensive w/o Recovery...
New Offensive...
I'd argue that the biggest change to the meta is the influx of pokemon that can handle Sylveon. Sylveon's ubiquity forced pretty much every team to run one of the six pokemon above, but now there are way more options. You could probably make a decent team entirely out of Sylveon stoppers in theory. Most notably, it is now much easier to counter Sylveon offensively.

Because of this, I predict the end of Sylveon's reign of terror. It will still be a viable pokemon--its raw power and priority will still allow it to blow through a lot--but it will now require actual support to function, likely in the form of wallbreaking cores. No longer can it just be slapped on any team.

This will also take away some of the luster from pokemon like Salazzle that were abundant largely because of their rare ability to stop Sylveon.

Defensive Dragons
Pre-Existing...
New w/ Recovery
New w/o Recovery...
Proof that Sylveon will still have a job, even if it's no longer ubiquitous. Some of these dragons have serious defensive potential and will need muscle to break.

Espeon Abusers
Pre-Existing ...
New ...
The other Eeveelution warped the meta from the defensive side, but unlike its cousin, we didn't gain a ton of new tools for breaking through Espeon. Most of them have some problems affecting their viability, so our existing abusers will only solidify their niches. Having one of these as a Dark-type breaker or pivot will only become more important, because of the following:

Bulky Psychics
Pre-Existing...
New w/ Recovery
New w/o Recovery...
The physically defensive Psychic wall is now an established trope. While the Psychic typing itself isn't particularly important, most of these pokemon offer something special that will make Stall teams drool. Will Espeon usage be reduced via competition? I don't know. Magic Bounce is as unique and useful as ever, but the other offerings are helpful too, and there's room for only so many mons with this design. I suspect that Espeon will still be common on stall, while more balanced teams may opt for the better offenses or hazard clearing abilities of the newcomers. Either way, the Dark-type breaker will likely grow as an archetype.

Rhyperior Fighters
Pre-existing switch-ins
New switch-ins
Pre-existing Outspeeders...
New Outspeeders...
This is an area that is still painfully lacking. Mienshao is a huge help in the defensive department, but teams will continue to fight Rhyperior largely by Scarf, priority, and outmaneuvering the opponent.

Hazard Removal
Pre-Existing Rapid Spin
New Rapid Spin...
Pre-Existing Defog... __...
New Defog w/ Recovery...
New Defog w/o Recovery
(The pokemon listed after __ have access to Defog but don't usually run it)
Not much to say here, other than the fact that there are now way more hazard removal options, especially through Defog. There's not room for all of them though. Who will triumph?

Wild Cards

While I have categorized the new additions based on how they fit into existing Flipped archetypes, there are several mons who can't be put into these boxes (and indeed, some of the pokemon I mentioned above may define themselves in different roles from what I mentioned). Some of these will surely be good enough to stand by their own, regardless of the meta trends I described, and a few will be the next to warp the meta around themselves.

 

[shnowshner]

Posting this after we've seen everything and have a good grip on new features. I'm still waiting for my laundry to finish before heading off to work. This is a mostly-full list of my opinions on EVERYTHING that was added in the DLC, along with a couple other things. Grab some snacks and make sure you have a bit of time to spare.
Anyway, here's the full rundown:

Nidoqueen is everything standard Nidoking is but better. Higher Speed and slightly higher Special Attack. LO Sheer Force is always a great combo, but I can't say for certain if it will fit nicely into the meta. At the very least it's a big threat to slower builds.
Of course, with Queen being offensively superior, I doubt he'll be worthwhile. The extra bulk is nice, but I don't see how that would be valuable outside of niche matchups.
Lackluster Defense, but its got a really big HP stat that helps make up for that. Also has workable offenses which make its Poison Jabs/Sludge Bombs sting along with their 30% chance to poison. Typing is also super useful as a stop to Sylveon, as it lacks any coverage options to really take it on and only a maniac would avoid Pixilate. With HDB and Roost it looks like super solid as Defog support with options like fully-accurate Toxic, U-turn, STAB spam, and Super Fang.
Good PhysDef but wow, that's an unfortunate typing, and it doesn't look like it has the moves to fulfill such a role.
Shell Smash may be banned, but this still could be a decent Rain Sweeper if a different, better Rain Sweeper wasn't also getting added.
Outclassed by Omastar. Which doesn't bode well, seeing as that is outclassed as well...
It's an okay Special Tank but pretty passive and has an annoying typing to work around. Least it has Roost and some neat tools like Pressure.
Hilariously Articuno is actually better. It doesn't have the same bulk it used to, but be honest, you only used Articuno defensively because it has 570 BST down in the sad echelons of PU. As far as offensive power, it got a 5 point boost to Speed and Special Attack. Also has great 125 Base Attack, but you'd be hard-pressed to find good moves. Mixed sets could maybe work as it does have Ice Shard and decent physical STAB. The biggest hurdle it faces it working around its frustrating type combo.
OU Trivia for you: despite having 125/100 Special Offenses, a lot of players liked using Zapdos defensively thanks to its typing and movepool. Well for you fans of bulky Zapdos, it's now fat as hell. It does suck to loose that naturally good Speed and SpA, as that played a major role in its ability to take hits while applying offensive pressure, but who needs that when you can spam Discharge and punish most Physical Attackers with Static? Paralysis for days.
Shifts some of Zapdos' defenses around for better offensive presence and a really cool typing that no longer has to fear instant suffering from some funny rocks in the air. Flame Body can let it be even tankier than Zapdos if it gets a lucky burn, and the addition of Scorching Sands to its movepool gives it a ton of options to be annoying. Expect Moltres to be good, it certainly has the potential.
Great defenses and Multiscale + Boots gives Dragonite tons of options. I can see defensive variants being popular, but I'm more interested in late-game sweeper sets that use its ability to stomach all kinds of moves to get Dragon Dance's off and go on a rampage.
Lacking. Zeraora is very good at being a fat Electric pivot and Raikou's lack of safe STAB to throw out, Knock Off, and some form of Recovery (rip Volt Absorb) just leaves it in the shadows sadly. Not explicitly bad, but I don't see a reason to use it.
Entei has some cool tricks like Sacred Fire and Eruption, along with good Speed at 115. It can't really compete with Arcanine at anything it does, but it can potentially use Boots + Eruption to really go to town on things. We'll have to see with this one.
Pretty promising Water-type attacker, it has good stats and a workable Special movepool. Might be outclassed by others though.
Nope.
Nope, but more emphatically.
If you're at the point where using Sceptile seems better than Roserade/Whimsicott/Virizion, you should probably stop for a bit, and get outside.
Now this is interesting. 70 in both offensives is pretty lame, but an SD is an SD, and Speed Boost is fantastic as always. Blaziken has a lot of great moves to throw around and trying to revenge it through its ever-increasing Speed and remarkable defenses will not be easy. If you ask me, this is a terrifying late-game wincon, but it probably requires a ton of support to ever make work.
Probably the better of the Water/Grounds, maybe around the same strength as Toad. I'm not how much that means in the grand scheme of things, but it's something.
Have you ever thought, "Man, I sure do miss STEELIX," and wish for its return? If so, I don't like you. Aggron's a horrifying amalgamation of two of the scariest Special Attackers we've had in the meta. 180 Base Special Attack? Check. Phenomenal movepool that lets it hit all sorts of things? Check. The Speed isn't amazing, but it gets Autotomize as well. SturdyBoots makes a return as well, which makes it pretty easy for Aggron to come in on slower Pokemon and apply massive pressure. It even comes packed with that same dreaded Earth Power/Flash Cannon/Dark Pulse combo that hits everything! No STAB on EP and a lack of Sheer Force do tone it down a tad, however. Still, this isn't a Pokemon to ignore. Expect Aggron to be making waves, and in more ways than one since it gets Surf too. I wasn't kidding about the movepool.
??? Use Dragonite. There's no Megas here.
I doubt this will find a niche. It's not that strong and lacks longevity. If anything, you'll win because people forgot what hits Storm Drain Grass/Rock and what doesn't.
Really bad. It's worse than Kabutops as a Rain abuser, and that's worse than Omastar, and we've already talked about Omastar.
Oof.
Faces a lot of competition from Lapras, which isn't even that amazing of a Pokemon.
The fish is here. Relicanth evaded extinction and lived for millions of years just for this one chance to whoop ya'll asses. 100 Speed and 130 Special Attack is amazing for this meta, and it's got great moves in strong Water STAB, Ice Beam, and Earth Power. Swift Swim gives it incredible Speed as well. Meteor Beam with Power Herb gives it a nuclear attack that boosts its damage even further. Even without rain, however, Relicanth manages to make a great Water-type attacker with neat options such as Calm Mind, Stealth Rock, and Yawn.
fat intimidate mence hoo boy who wants fun???
Great Special Attack but kind of slow compared to others. Not bad but not amazing either. At least we have another offensive Steel that can take some hits.
My man out here with 200 Base SpA. Wallbreaker extraordinaire. Earth Power complements its Rock moves nicely, but it is a bit lacking in the overall coverage department, and it really wishes it had Power Gem.
My man out here with 200 Base Atk. It's like Kyurem Black but it has Physical STAB that doesn't suck, and can also explode.
Bootleg Aegislash. You have a lot of nice attacking options but aren't very adept at taking damage. In the right hands I think Registeel will be a serviceable offensive Steel, since it can viably run Physical or Special, perhaps both at once!
/ Great stats on the physical side, yet it also does okay on the rest of their stats either. I think Latios will be better overall, but I don't think either is particularly bad.
Nope.
Nope.
I think this is a step down from the other Box Legendaries, but I'm also not too keen on giving it the light of day. Still, you could probably drop this down from Ubers. It's defensive type leaves it horribly vulnerable to Ice, Rock, Fairy, and Dragon. The biggest problem will definitely come from its huge movepool with Dragon Dance, Dragon Ascent, V-Create, and ESpeed. Plus it's insanely tough to take down even with that 4x Ice Weakness.
252+ SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 352-420 (89.3 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Cool Pokemon.
Offensive sets are a bit better, but it's still really slow and lost a lot of defensive value.
Definitely useable. Bulky support sets with strong STAB might be pretty decent, and it's got a great Speed Tier for what it is.
Bleh.
Not bad Defense, and Flame Body is somewhat different from Arcanine, but it's also lacking a lot of what makes Arcanine so great.
Slow Azelf. It's has some nice options and strong attacking stats, but everything else is uninspired.
It's literally just Mesprit.
Slow Uxie. Noticing a trend here? Whatever you might want to use Uxie for normally, Azelf probably does better.
Nope.
Nope.
FINALLY OH MY GOD This is such a great addition to the meta. Its got a great typing and some killer moves to boot. It never hurts to have another quad-Fairy resist, especially one with decent Speed beating out the base 90s. Offensive Eruption, stallbreaker, defensive support, Heatran, all of these sets look very promising.
Might be able to do something.
Nope x2. Both forms are insane.
Very fast, very strong Psychic-type attacker. Having a Pokemon this strong that outpaces Rhyperior isn't something we've really had to deal with yet, outside of Snorlax/Blissey/Chansey. Trick Choice with Psychic/Moonblast/filler, Calm Mind SP sets, and maybe an offensive support set with Thunder Wave/Lunar Dance gives it tons of options to break down teams and make progress throughout the match. Who would've guessed that Psychic was a good offensive typing? Been a while for sure.
v-create
Use Lickilicky.
We've been through this song and dance before. Relicanth is much more consistent at what it does.
Defeatist is a moot point now. Any value this has comes directly from it's crazy defenses. Certainly a step up from Aerodactyl in most regards, outside of abilities.
So this gets Triple Axel and Ice Shard. Might be halfway decent.
/ Both are pretty hard to take down and have some really annoying options. Torn-T with Regenerator is going to be an excellent pivot.
/ Thund-T has massive Physical bulk while its normal form is fat with Prankster TWave. I think base Thundurus is going to have the upper hand here.
/ Lando is pretty much a really bulky Nidoqueen with slight move differences and Flying instead of Poison. Without that same Speed and Special Attack it doesn't look nearly as oppressive as it typically is. Lando-T meanwhile looks kinda pointless. Like, I don't think it's that bad or anything, but I'm not sure why I would want to use it.
Might not be banned!
Unable to significantly differentiate itself from other Rock-types that do the whole speedy attacker thing. PHerb Meteor Meteor??? idk
Very fast at Base 123, has decent Attack, and a great ability in Refrigerate. Body Slam/Facade are both good moves to abuse, and it gets EQ + STAB Stone Edge/Rock Slide. As far as offensive Ice-types go this looks really clean, and being among the lucky few fast Pokemon that outspeed Rhyperior while also posing an actual threat is huge for its viability.
Sad!
Nope.
Nope.
Very threatening. We all know how good Thousand Arrows is, and Zygarde now boasts better Speed and a great Special Attack stat as well. Of course, it's going to miss all the strength it got from its defenses.
Rock Polish might be pretty fire actually. Better than Carbink at least.
Fat Water that eats Sylv for breakfast. Very nice.
Not bad defensively, it does have Roost and can be quite annoying. Seems like a great enabler of Electric Terrain shenanigans.
Not sure what this does with Psychic Terrain still banned. Even with that, however, not sure what this does.
Imagine having Grassy Glide haha I think Rillaboom is pretty much better than it as a terrain abuser. It still might have its own niche but ouch, that sucks.
Has potential. Misty Terrain on an offensive Pokemon is honestly pretty sweet.
Head Smash Nihilego does serious damage, has great Speed, and is a great all-around answer to Sylveon as it comes packed with PJab and fantastic Physical Defense. Also, Knock Off. I'm very interested in this.
Literally unplayable.
Passive as hell but it's got Rapid Spin + Foul Play + Toxic.
All it has going for it is high Defense. Not sure there's much it can do to stand out.
Trades tankiness for Speed. We finally have an all-around good Flying/Steel and I wouldn't be surprised to see it become really common as a result. Offensive Heavy Slam sets and Defensive sets both looks perfectly viable.
INSANE Special Bulk, but it really lacks any useful moves. Vacuum Wave and Giga Drain are the best options really. Knock Off helps a bit, and it does at least provide Defog support. I can't say if Kartana is good or bad because it's such an unusual Pokemon.
Big Speed. That's it really.
Uninteresting. Yes it's decent defensively but it really lacks anything interesting that makes me want to try it out.
A disaster. Lacks good Special Attacks, super frail physically, awkward Speed tier that doesn't accomplish much at all. If you can find a way to make it Flash Cannon through everything, I guess it can put in work? Beast Boost moment.
Crazy fat and comes with Wisp, Knock, Pain Split, and Foul Play, among others. I think it will be okay.


New Pokemon Section (Spoilers Below This Point)

spoiler

Regieleki: Say hello to the dumbest damage sponge in the metagame. 200/100/100 defenses. Comes with 80 Speed too. It has an awful movepool and low offenses, but with things like Thunder Cage, Rapid Spin, and Volt Switch, it could be decent situationally.

Regidrago: 200 Speed with decent defensive stats and awful offenses. Unless it still hits stupid strong I don't really see this doing much besides being a fast late-game cleaner that's scared of priority.

Glastrier: Another Ice-type that's been given new life. 100 Speed, 130 Special Attack, 110 Attack. Fantastic mixed attack with some cool options at its disposal.

Spectrier: Same speed as its comrad, but abandons offense with crazy Physical Defense. It lacks any noteworthy moves on the physical end besides Foul Play, and it's Special moveset is let down by a middling 60 SpA. At least it can annoy a lot of Physical threats.

Calyrex: Use Celebi

Calyrex-Glastrier: Great offensive type with better overall stats, better overall ability (technically speaking), and a vastly superior movepool. Maybe not too broken, but it's a big yikes. This might be better off staying banned.

Calyrex-Spectrier: Much, much better. It has a real offensive stat with a real movepool, and it's bulk is pretty crazy at 150/165/85. Has much better team support options than before. The critical weakness to Ghost and Dark is a big problem for it, however. Potential unban.

G-Articuno: Of all the Pokemon THIS one keeps the recovery move. Awesome. It at least has good Physical defense for whatever you can take hits from. Sadly it lacks options to really abuse its good Attack.

G-Zapdos: Without Roost it suffers a lot from any defensive role it might have wanted. As of now it's just an okay at best attacker with neat moves such as Thunderous Kick and lots of coverage.

G-Moltres: Pretty annoying that it doesn't have a good Dark move off its 125 Attack, but it at least got Brave Bird. It's a lot like a tankier Mandibuzz in many regards.

G-Slowking: Physical attacking Slowking has decent Speed and probably enough Defense to comfortably take most strong Priority hits coming it's way. Lack of Poison STAB to abuse hurts a lot, sadly, even though it gets ample coverage and neat tech like Trick.

Old Pokemon Section

DLC has not been kind to the face of the metagame. A surge of new defensive and offensive answers have come around. The biggest challenges are the ones that can do both effectively, prime examples being Nihilego, Celesteela, and Victini, which all outspeed, resist Fairy, and scare the heck out of it with their attacks. This is not to say it's going to be bad, as Sylveon continues to be great both at breaking down walls and terrorizing frail offense, but options to counteract it are abundant now and simply adding Sylveon onto your team as offensive duct tape is not going to work anymore.

Yeah this guy's still broken. There's a lot more offensive answers, but when it comes to being impossible to switch into, Rhyperior is in a league of its own. The only Special Attackers I really see as giving it competition are the newly-added Aggron and Cresselia.

Due to how linear this Pokemon is not much has changed. There's new Pokemon which it can struggle with like Salamence and Volcanion, but Dracovish is still going to be doing the same things... but now, it has Sand Rush unleashed. In fact, the whole of have their Weather abilities unlocked, reaching 558 with a neutral nature and beating any unboosted base 204 Speed Pokemon with max EVs and a +Nature. Guess who's not a fan of this? Me!

Faces a lot of competition from other fat Psychics, and there's a couple new things which it doesn't want to face. Pretty much anything with strong Special Attacks are a big no for Espeon. DLC2 had a lack of Dark-types added, so that's still a shortage being worked around.

Sticks out like a sore thumb in this meta. Chansey just feels a bit cheap, but we can't ignore what's been added to counteract it. Namely, Spectrier. Pure Ghost type that fears zero of Chansey's coverage options, immune to its STAB, and has insane PhysDef. Is Chansey still a potential problem? Not the kind of question you should ask me since the answer will always be yes.

We are going to see a massive shift in which Pokemon can survive the influx of new powerful Pokemon and which ones fall to the wayside. Some stuff has been able to hang on simply because of how specific the metagame's biggest threats were, mainly Salazzle which was adept at taking on standard Sylveon sets, but similar arguments can be made for others. How much success will Roserade find now that Nihilego exists, which is both bulkier and much more dangerous while providing similar utility in Toxic Spikes? Have Clefable's relatively poor stats caught up to it? Is there still a good reason to use Accelgor? In a similar fashion, Pokemon like Hydreigon and Goodra will appreciate new answers to their biggest threats from old, but themselves may struggle to stay relevant in the face of all the new additions. Others have stood as decent measures against common metagame trends or staples of their playstyle: Hitmontop as a priority abuser, or Snorlax as a Speed Demon with a game-ending Belly Drum set. Pelipper and Tyranitar are still going to be the face of their respective weathers, and with new tools at their disposal they've only gotten stronger. I'm not sure these niches will go away anytime soon.

I foresee almost the entirety of C rank being wiped completely, a lot B going down a few notches, and A being completely restructured as old Pokemon settle in lower ranks or adjust to new threats. Sylveon will probably drop from S. If I had to guess the best Pokemon are going to be Rhyperior and Cresselia.

 

[Spiderpig2398]

(108/72/90/129/90/91)
just run volt switch/air slash/focus blast/flash cannon @ choice scarf because this thing gets only those four moves and hyper beam for special ones over 60 power, there's not even any non-rest recovery for it to be a tank


(108/90/72/90/129/91)
Probably worse than regular Terrakion. All it has for special moves are Air Slash, Earth Power, and Focus Blast. May still see use though because Rock/Fighting is a hilarious STAB combo.


(108/129/90/72/90/91)
Honestly, probably the best off of the original three Musketeers, solely because it gets to keep the 129 in an attack stat that has a good number of options. Grass/Fighting is still a meh type combo though, and the speed is at a bit of an awkward tier...


(108/90/129/90/72/91)
Basically Cobalion but as a water type. Definitely going to be a super annoying physical tank because Scald burns when backed by 108/129 physical defense is going to suck. The good part is that its special defense is a little shaky.


(93/85/100/57/95/65)
If it had any sort of recovery, this would be an excellent Eviolite user. Unfortunately it, uh, does not outside of Rest. So it's really mediocre besides being a chunky fire type. It does get Teleport via Let's Go, though, so maybe it can be an okay pivot.


(105/85/95/57/83/65)
Worse defense spread compared to the above, but a typing that isn't weak to as many types at the cost of fewer resistances. However, the higher base HP means it can produce subs not broken in one hit by Night Shade/Seismic Toss for the users of that who are still around.


(37/131/29/131/29/43)
Even if this thing's basically unusable I like looking at this hilarious statline.

 

[flying moose]

Might be able to do something.

Y'know, it's crazy, but I just noticed that Regigigas could just maaaaybe function as another rare Rhyperior/Aggron switch-in. It is neutral to all of their usual coverage and its special bulk is up the wazoo. Unfortunately, both kaiju do have access to Focus Blast, though up until now, I've never seen it used. That said, look at this:

252 SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regigigas: 136-160 (33.7 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aggron Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regigigas: 190-224 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO

Even against a worst case scenario attack from Aggron, it can almost manage.

Focus Blast is not an ideal move for the monsters to be locked into and the monsters would rather run other things. In addition to their Ground or Steel STAB, they want Ice Beam for defensive Dragons, Thunderbolt for Flying and Water types, and probably Fire Blast for the new Kartana. Aggron wants both Flash Cannon and Earth Power. So here's what you get if they choose not to run Focus Blast, or if they go for the STAB move when you switch in.

252 SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regigigas: 76-90 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aggron Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regigigas: 94-112 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- 83.2% chance to 4HKO

So Regigigas would be a great roadblock against standard Rhyperior/Aggron sets. The problem is, its movepool for an AV set is barely functional at best. Its only special moves are Earth Power, Thunder(bolt), and Focus Blast, with no special STAB moves beyond memes like Round, Hyper Beam, Snore (sleep absorber I guess?), and Terrain Pulse (situational use against terrain teams?). This means power is a problem. It does OHKO Aggron with next to no investment, but it can't say the same for Rhyperior, meaning it will struggle to hurt basically everything else.

8 SpA Regigigas Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 264-312 (109 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Regigigas Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 106-126 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO

Furthermore, good Assault Vest users have attacking moves that actually provide utility, such as Knock Off, Rapid Spin, U-turn, and Dragon Tail. All Regigigas gets is Knock Off, but that'll be weak as worms.

So Regigigas will probably be vastly outclassed by Mienshao, but maybe, just maybe, with the right team, it could find a niche.

 

[champion31323]

bro snorlax tho

 

[Pokefan100011]

Volcorona has,to put it lightly,changed.It trades 15 speed to become a tank,and with 105 Attack,this thing actually has good physical stats.Unfortunately,its special defence has become a frail 60,so it gets hurt bad by special attacks.

 

[shnowshner]

Feel like sharing a semi-recent discovery I made



At first I was pretty dismissive about Rillaboom, as its Attack had dropped significantly. What I forgot was that Grassy Glide is a busted move and this funny monkey can still put in work.

Here's a comparison to our best Priority users right now:

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 163-193 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 129-153 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 144-171 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
(Mew was not Psychic in this calc)

This is still devastatingly powerful despite Rillaboom's paltry Base 70 Attack; I'm pretty sure this is the strongest one-turn Priority attack in the meta.

Not only that, but Rillaboom looks extremely valuable as an offensive check to lots of other offensive Pokemon.

LO Jolly used as I think that's its most versatile set, though Band works and has its upsides.

252+ SpA Rhyperior Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 180-212 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 268-316 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 135-159 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I shouldn't have to mention that Glide KO's. Specs Ice Beam is a problem but you can still live since Rillaboom's SpDef is honestly fantastic.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron in Grassy Terrain: 333-394 (138.1 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Avalugg in Grassy Terrain: 238-281 (120.8 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Both of these have Sturdy, which means they need to not be at full to drop. I thought about Jolly Bullet Seed as an answer: You do have a chance to drop Avalugg with just two hits, and since you outspeed that's really useful. Aggron lives sadly, but with some luck you could break past it.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax in Grassy Terrain: 185-218 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Decent chance to KO Lax, and if it took any chip from hazards/BD it pretty much drops.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey in Grassy Terrain: 286-339 (118.6 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Chansey drops too. Its so fast that you could tech some Defense EVs to live, but then you sacrifice the Chansey mirror and maybe some Scarfers.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon in Grassy Terrain: 121-142 (46.3 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon in Grassy Terrain: 204-242 (78.1 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 195-229 (62.7 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

This is where our low attack starts to be an issue. Sylveon can be RK'd at low health but otherwise can get off a strong Quick Attack. If we in turn are healthy, a Wood Hammer can severely dent it, or just potentially KO with Band.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish in Grassy Terrain: 173-204 (59.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

This isn't too impressive either, as Vish needs to be put in range to fall. At the very least you can outspeed non-Scarf without Sand up and smash it with Hammer.
252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish in Grassy Terrain: 296-348 (101.7 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's not the most amazing thing out there but it's really good Priority that handles a lot of big threats or at least can scare them out. In particular I think SD sets could be really dangerous versus Offensive teams.

On a related note I do think we're in a position to possibly unban Psychic Surge, now that a viable option exists that can nullify its Priority-blocking effects, whilst also packing strong Priority itself. There are a few mons which hold me back from being sure about this, but there is at least a form of counterplay to it.

 

[in the hills]

Flipped is Leader's Choice for April! Congrats flying moose !

 

[shnowshner]

It's been a long time, hasn't it? Crazy to think that I joined Smogon almost 2 years ago in this very thread, which is cool because it's nostalgic, but also sucks because my older posts are way less funny and nicely formatted as the ones I make now, and it hurts seeing them.

Anyway I never make good posts so we'll move on. Despite not having any real activity for over a year we've been working on things the past couple months in anticipation of hijacking the illOMinati in order to be playable on main again winning OMotM/LCotM, so there are a couple new things and developments we have to share.

1. As per the discovery of the stat overflow glitch, we just so happen to be one of few playable Metagames where one of our legal Pokemon is affected. Chansey's base Speed of 250 is high enough that a set running 240 or more Speed EVs and a +Speed nature results in a raw Speed stat of 0. After testing I confirmed that all this does it make you the slowest mon possible, so there's no wacky shenanigans going on here like there is with the other stats. What this does mean is that Chansey's unboosted Speed is hard capped to 654, achieved via 236 EVs, 31 IVs, and a Boosting nature. Any further investment is actively harmful outside of purposefully making your Chansey the slowest Pokemon on the field. Yes, this means that Chansey occupies both of the naturally fastest and slowest unboosted Speed Tiers in the metagame. Keep in mind you can still use something like Choice Scarf or Tailwind, since those are "external" modifiers not connected to the Base Stat.
2. Speaking of Speed Tiers, we've compiled a preliminary Speed Tier Compendium! It should see itself polished up and available to the public very soon. A lot of it is speculatory since we've got very little metagame data to work off of, but it should help users figure out important benchmarks and quickly compared potential stat spreads.
3. This is a bit overdue but the bans on Psychic Surge and Psychic Terrain are (probably) getting lifted (when we are playable [This better happen you two]). The ban was a somewhat temporary decision in the beginning stages, as the metagame was dominated by Shell Smashers and Glass Cannons. Psychic Terrain was a low-skill, high-reward method of protecting these dangerous Pokemon from the powerful forms of Priority that were used to keep said mons in check, and pretty much made all of them overwhelming. The ban on Psychic Terrain is being lifted for multiple reasons:
   • Shell Smash and Steelix are banned, two of the main culprits for the highly offensive metagame prior.
   • The introduction of new presumably viable Terrain setters, which grants teams a form of counterplay against Psychic Terrain that barely existed prior (the only options before were Weezing-Galar and Pincurchin). New Defog users also helps a tad in this regard.
   • Chansey's mere existence poses a threat to a lot of other fast mons, but its otherwise unimpressive Attack and lack of setup makes it less of an issue for defensive mons compared to stuff like Snorlax, which is significantly stronger and can boost with Belly Drum.
   • Two waves of DLC throwing the previous metagame out the window so we might as well unban it lol
4. There isn't any confirmation on this yet, but expect to see some more quickbans on things in the near future. We're likely going to follow suit with a lot of OMs and just axe King's Rock/Bright Powder/Lax Incense because they're dumb and we make the rules here. We've also been discussing some Pokemon that might get banned, but I'm not going to mention any of them except for Dracovish since we probably should have done that one sooner than later. The rest need a lot more data and testing to be sure of and I'd rather not skew opinions of them too early.

With all that housekeeping out of the way we should be good to delve into the largely unexplored and untapped Crown Tundra metagame! I'm beyond excited to play this again and really can't express my gratitude towards OM Leadership for accepting my $1,000 cash value bribes giving us another chance before the next generation of Pokemon comes out.

 

[flying moose]

Very excited that Flipped is back. Last time we were active was before Crown Tundra and Isle of Armor, so the meta is filled with exciting new beasts.

To help navigate this new world of upside-down mons, we have compiled preliminary speed tiers. They are listed below and will also be added to one of the reserved posts for resources on the first page of the forum.

These speed tiers are very much in flux as they are based mainly on what the council thinks looks goods in theory. We will add and remove pokemon as the meta develops. Please share your thoughts on which are major threats and which don't work well in practice.

Speed Tiers

Speed Tier values are presented in the following order:

Base Stat: xi (xii) +A, B, C, -D (x1.5=E, x2=F)

xi= notable offensive pokemon (more likely to run max speed)
(xii)= notable defensive pokemon (unlikely to invest in speed)
A= max speed (252 EVs with positive nature)
B= invested speed (252 EVs with neutral nature)
C= uninvested speed (0 EVs with neutral nature)
D= minimum speed (0 EVs and 0 IVs with negative nature)... only shown when relevant
E= max speed with 1.5x boost (e.g. Choice Scarf or Dragon Dance)... only shown when relevant
F= max speed with 2x boost (e.g. Rock Polish or Swift Swim)... only shown when relevant



Tier 1: Ultrafast (Outspeeds Rhyperior)
250:

+654, 599, 536 (max speed is 654 instead of 658 due to the stat overflow glitch)

200:

+548, 499, 436

160:

+460, 419, 356 (x1.5=690)

150: (

)+438, 399, 336

130:

+394, 359, 296

125:

+383, 349, 286 (x1.5=574)

123:

+379, 345, 282 (x1.5=568)

120:

+372, 339, 276 (x1.5=558)


Tier 2: Fast (Outspeeds Galar Fossils & Goodra, Can Outspeed Snorlax if Scarfed)
115:

+361, 329, 266 (x1.5=541)

114:

+359, 327, 244

110:

(

)+350, 319, 256 (x1.5=525)

109:

+348, 317, 254 (x1.5=522)

108:

+346, 315, 252 (x1.5=519)

105:

+339, 309, 246 (x1.5=508)

100:

(

) +328, 299, 236 (x1.5=492, x2=656)

97:

(

) +322, 293, 230 (x1.5=483, x2=644)

95:

(

) +317, 289, 226 (x1.5=475)

93:

+313, 285, 222

91:

+309, 281, 218 (x1.5=463)


Tier 3: Moderate Speed (Most Likely to Run Bulky Offense or Boost Speed with Weather/Rock Polish/etc)

90:

+306, 279, 216 (x1.5=459, x2=612)

89:

() +304, 277, 214, -164 (x1.5+456, x2=608)

88:

(

)+302, 275, 212 (x1.5=453)

85:

(

) +295, 269, 206, -157 (x1.5=442, x2=590)

80:

(

) +284, 259, 196, -148 (x1.5=426, x2=568)


Tier 4: Average Speed (Can Outspeed Rhyperior if Scarfed w/ Max Speed)
79: (

)+282, 257, 194, -146

78: (

) +280, 255, 192

75:

+273, 249, 186 (x1.5=409)

73:

+269, 245, 182

71: (

) +265, 241, 178, -132

70:

(

) +262, 239, 176, -130 (x1.5=393, x2=524)

68:

(

) +258, 235, 172, -126 (x1.5=387)

65:

(

) +251, 229, 166, -121 (x1.5=376)


Tier 5: Slow (Base 60 or Less, Some May Utilize Trick Room)

60: (

) +240, 219, 156, -112

59: (

) +238, 217, 154, -110

57: (

) +234, 213, 150, -107

55:

(

) +229, 209, 146, -103

53:(

) +223, 205, 142, -99

50:

(

) +218, 199, 136, -94 (x2=436)

 

[Hpdsd]

I think you forgot to implement Baton Pass Clause

 

[BOTW Enjoyer]

First post and I suck at really everything so hopefully this is at least an acceptable set, but I present to you: worse Rhyperior!

Nidoqueen @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 140 HP / 248 SPA / 112 SPD
Modest Nature
-Ice Beam
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power

Essentially, it’s slower specially bulkier Rhyperior. It does a lot of the stuff Special Nidoking does in normal OU but better.

Calcs:
252+ SpA Rhyperior Earth Power vs. 140 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Nidoqueen: 218-258 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ SpA Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rhyperior: 254-300 (114.9 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It survives a hit from Rhyperior and then OHKOs it. Not exactly worse, but not better
Edit: credit to Shnowshner for their Rhyperior set that I used in the calcs

 

[Hpdsd]

Should Shadow Tag be banned, It lacks any abusers bar gothitelle which can only trap weak physical attackers which lack pivoting moves

Edit: All trapping abilities are unbanned at the moment

 

[Hpdsd]

First post and I suck at really everything so hopefully this is at least an acceptable set, but I present to you: worse Rhyperior!

Nidoqueen @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 140 HP / 248 SPA / 112 SPD
Modest Nature
-Ice Beam
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power

Essentially, it’s slower specially bulkier Rhyperior. It does a lot of the stuff Special Nidoking does in normal OU but better.

Calcs:
252+ SpA Rhyperior Earth Power vs. 140 HP / 112 SpD Assault Vest Nidoqueen: 218-258 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ SpA Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rhyperior: 254-300 (114.9 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It survives a hit from Rhyperior and then OHKOs it. Not exactly worse, but not better
Edit: credit to Shnowshner for their Rhyperior set that I used in the calcs

Use Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb

 

[TailGlowVM]

Some initial thoughts on the new mons in the meta (I've been using an old team I found in the thread due to lack of knowledge, the one with Cloyster/Drifblim/Tyranitar/Espeon/Salazzle/Ditto, and it still seems usable):

(151/37/137/37/137/71 stats) Pheromosa is clearly a big threat in this metagame, thanks to its newfound incredible bulk, pivoting and Rapid Spin. Its typing is surprisingly good for key moves like Rhyperior's Earth Power too.

(200/50/100/50/100/80) I've only seen it used for screens, but it's also extremely fat.

(50/200/100/100/50/80) Why is no one using this? You get 200 base attack and very good coverage with Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Earthquake / something like Superpower or Explosion.

(109/31/59/131/181/59) I've seen a lot of Kartanas, but none of them have done much - it's slow, has a horrible special movepool, and paper-thin physical bulk.

(121/90/110/80/100/79) Very bulky and doesn't die quickly thanks to Regenerator, although it's now pretty passive, stuck with the very weak and unreliable Hurricane or the restrictive Acrobatics for STAB.

 

[flying moose]

Hi everyone. Quick update regarding the legality of a few components in the meta. There were a few oversights on my part when making the banlist, which resulted in Baton Pass, Zygarde-Complete, and Melmetal being legal yesterday. These were meant to remain banned. The banlist is now fixed and these bans are now implemented on the server (thank you Kris).

 

[Nighstar o3o]

I have no idea why, but i have thoroughly enjoyed this meta. It's weird, it's fun, and, as you might of guessed, completely 'flipped' Everything on it's head. Anyway, I thought I might as well share a few dumb teams I have made. So, without Further Ado, I'm Stars, and my username on Showdown is Starsychan. I'm not the best or greatest player, however, I am Someone who will play dumb sets and teams to try and find cool stuff to go off of. So, lets get right into the two teams

So, this first team was the first I made and played with. The second team originally had Melmetal in it, but I saw he was supposed to be banned (Rip my fast special sweeper boi) But I can see why he needed to be banned with how fast he was and how hard he hit, especially in this mode where everything seems to be glass canons. The third team I'm really happy with, since it has a theme Now, By no means are my teams good, but I do like to think they give people better Idea's of what to play, instead of everyone playing the same mons over and over. After all, that's what OM's are for, no?

https://pokepast.es/b3be8e46ce5f19b5

So, this team was a hodgepodge coddled together after reading the flipped forum board (IE, here) So I'll do my best to break down the team and my reasoning.

So, first up, hitmontop with technician. Now since this mode is dominated by speedy glass canons, I got to thinking, there needs to be counters. So, why not a slow Canon that has priorty? And so, I came across people messing with Ol' toppy. He hits like a 4ton train with both fake out and bullet punch, and I've seen him do 40% damage with fakeout against rhyperior, And bullet punch finishing the job. Unfortunately, he suffers from what almost everyone in this mode does, way, way weaker defenses. Later on you'll notice I try to balance my defenses, but The more I play, the more I realize you need to pick def or spD, it's hard to do both. So, since most fast attackers are now SpA, I went with SpD.

Zeraora: Trades speed and attack for better overall bulk. However, still gets acess to moves like bulk up, so it isn't that much of a loss. However, he is slower, but can more effectively take a hit, so it's easier to get in a quick BU before you start attacking. That was my thought process anyway. Has moves like CC, PR, and PF for attack, although I can see one getting swapped for drain punch for recovery or blaze kick to hit the now glassy steel types. By no means is this set the best, But I had fun with it.

Avvalugg: Ah yes, the super slow iceburg, no refurbished to be a fast special sweeper, maybe because global warming made him slick so now he's fast AF? Anyway, not much to say here, except he has some great coverage options with surf, ice beam, Flash canon, and Rapid spin for hazard removal. Low Bulk tho, but high enough speed and SpA to Offset this.

Ahhh, good ol' torkoal. Hes now faster, hits harder, and now can't take much of a hit. The ban of shellsmash hinders him, but he can provide a good fire sweeper in the right circumstance, and even go against some water users with the drought bonus and solarbeam. I suppose you could also go like, a banded route for physical fire moves. Otherwise, pretty self explanitory

Mandibuzz, a mon that doesn't change all that much in the grand scheme of things, thanks to it's average stats.
The only thing that changes is that it loses def for a better spA stat, but, unfortunately, I almost never see anyone running spA moves anyway with mandibuzz, unless someone spams snarl. Feel free to call me an Idiot though

And lastly, the frail regilieki has now become a super bulky boy, with over 600 hp and solid def stats to take hits. However, with its limited movepool, you really only have 2 options, run light clay to be a screen setter, or run thundercage, Rapid spin, Thunderwave, and maybe something like elctroweb/ Eerie impulse to trap and shutdown the influx of SpA in the mode. Good for chip damage and tanking blows, bad at, well, coverage. Still like my boi tho


Team 2, electric Boogaloo (RIP Melmetal, you will be missed.)

https://pokepast.es/a61aca543c62cd8e

Dragu: So, our speedy heavy hitter becomes a bulky wall. Kinda cool if you think about it, as now you have a reliable wisper as well moves like DD to get your attack and Speed back up, with phantom force for a stab move and sucker punch to try and kill those speedy glass canons. Otherwise, Not much else to say. Its kinda cool seeing the roles of mons change in this mode, however.

Melmetal (RIP my shiny boi) Before he was banned today, Melmetal was by far my favorite flipped mon. Access to great spA coverage moves, super fast, and hits like a train with its own spA moves. Throw on expert belt, and you got yourselves a decent spA sweeper. Useless ability now, tho.

Next up we Have Volcanion, with one of the coolest type combinations, and decent stats, now flipped! He his now slightly faster with better def, with a loss to spA, but nothing evs and IV's won't fix. Great moves for coverage, like earth power, Steam erup, sludge, etc.

Thunderus! Wooo! This lad becomes slower, but DAMN is he bulkier. More hp, more defenses, and access to prankster moves, the speed loss is negligable. You can run a taunter twave defogger, or a more offensive rought with flying stabs and bulk up and defiant. Lots of options for this guy.

Next, tangrowth! He loses hp, but he becomes SO much more defensive and faster, as he loses his high attack for high SpD. His spA and def stay the same tho, so you got yourself a tank with low hp. Moves like leech seed and giga drain help keep him alive, with sludge bomb and toxic to screw over mons who overstay thier welcome. Lots of options for this lad, which is why I played around with him.

Next is a bit of an Odd choice, but I live with it. Goliospod is one of my favorite mons, but he changes Drastically when in flipped.
No longer a slow, defensive heavy hitter, he is now a faster, specially definsive spA. Wether this is good or bad, I don't know, but the loss of hp coupled with his mediocre ability hurts him in the long run. I'm curious to see if anyone can build a more impressive set.

Now, on to team three, Regiregiregi!
All the regis share one thing in common, each usually have a massive stat in something, now, with flipped, we can see them used in interesting ways.
Behold!

https://pokepast.es/ce3198c7b6f14eee

So, first up, we have The icey lad. He is no longer a special sweeper, instead, he now has more offensive physical capabilities than ever, and as Tailglow said above me, with access to the punch moves and explosion, he is a force to be reckoned with if the oppenet doesn't take it seriously

Now is the game of thrones reference, Drago! Fast and bulky is the name of the game here, so Thats why I built this bad boi with screensetting, as well as breaking swipe and draco to hinder physical attackers. He's fast enough to outspeed mons like Rhyperior, so its nice to be able to quickly set up screens.

Since the screensetter slot is taken, Regi lieki now has a role as a chip damage user and trapper. Again, super bulky with chip damage potential, As well as a good switch in for Final gambit users like accellgor since he has the hp to tank the hit, He's here to kill off glass canons threats and clear the field with rapids spin

Now we have The steely boi, who switches from a defensive role to an offensive role, however, I tried to do a mix of both, with ID and amnesia for longevity, and charge beam for coverage and SpA boost and Flash canon for a great stab move. Fairys beware. Still cool as hell, tho, and I like how he changed.

Now, the solid ROCK of a lad, Regirock. Holy crap, it's special attack is INSANE. With a powerherb and stab Meteor beam, at a +1 special A boost he is almost at 900 spA, more than enough to kill off any non spc d tank. Thunderbolt, earth power compliment this impressive sweeper, with ancient power for a stab spA move that fishes for that omniboost. Can easily run away with the game if the oppenet isn't careful

Lasty, its the Papa Regi himself, Gigas! He..He's really funky in flipped. Now a spD tank, he's SLIGHTLY faster with decent bulk. still a terrible ability, but now your slightly bulker with less defensive capabilities, He still gets moves like PUP and Twave, so he has decent utility, and can now switch in to special attackers. Also has other interesting moves, and you can now run him as a SpA himself since he now has the option of doing so, but lack luster spA moves hinder this. Thunderbolt, ancient power, Focus blast, maybe icywind, and thats about in, unless you wanna go with a one hit KO with hyperbeam or somethin, since everything is squisher


Well, there you have it, folks, three teams I made, and three dumb teams I made, Ahah, Feel free to leave a comment or suggestions, I LOVE talking to you guys. Really happy with this mode.

 

[Hpdsd]

I have no idea why, but i have thoroughly enjoyed this meta. It's weird, it's fun, and, as you might of guessed, completely 'flipped' Everything on it's head. Anyway, I thought I might as well share a few dumb teams I have made. So, without Further Ado, I'm Stars, and my username on Showdown is Starsychan. I'm not the best or greatest player, however, I am Someone who will play dumb sets and teams to try and find cool stuff to go off of. So, lets get right into the two teams

So, this first team was the first I made and played with. The second team originally had Melmetal in it, but I saw he was supposed to be banned (Rip my fast special sweeper boi) But I can see why he needed to be banned with how fast he was and how hard he hit, especially in this mode where everything seems to be glass canons. The third team I'm really happy with, since it has a theme Now, By no means are my teams good, but I do like to think they give people better Idea's of what to play, instead of everyone playing the same mons over and over. After all, that's what OM's are for, no?

https://pokepast.es/b3be8e46ce5f19b5

So, this team was a hodgepodge coddled together after reading the flipped forum board (IE, here) So I'll do my best to break down the team and my reasoning.

So, first up, hitmontop with technician. Now since this mode is dominated by speedy glass canons, I got to thinking, there needs to be counters. So, why not a slow Canon that has priorty? And so, I came across people messing with Ol' toppy. He hits like a 4ton train with both fake out and bullet punch, and I've seen him do 40% damage with fakeout against rhyperior, And bullet punch finishing the job. Unfortunately, he suffers from what almost everyone in this mode does, way, way weaker defenses. Later on you'll notice I try to balance my defenses, but The more I play, the more I realize you need to pick def or spD, it's hard to do both. So, since most fast attackers are now SpA, I went with SpD.

Zeraora: Trades speed and attack for better overall bulk. However, still gets acess to moves like bulk up, so it isn't that much of a loss. However, he is slower, but can more effectively take a hit, so it's easier to get in a quick BU before you start attacking. That was my thought process anyway. Has moves like CC, PR, and PF for attack, although I can see one getting swapped for drain punch for recovery or blaze kick to hit the now glassy steel types. By no means is this set the best, But I had fun with it.

Avvalugg: Ah yes, the super slow iceburg, no refurbished to be a fast special sweeper, maybe because global warming made him slick so now he's fast AF? Anyway, not much to say here, except he has some great coverage options with surf, ice beam, Flash canon, and Rapid spin for hazard removal. Low Bulk tho, but high enough speed and SpA to Offset this.

Ahhh, good ol' torkoal. Hes now faster, hits harder, and now can't take much of a hit. The ban of shellsmash hinders him, but he can provide a good fire sweeper in the right circumstance, and even go against some water users with the drought bonus and solarbeam. I suppose you could also go like, a banded route for physical fire moves. Otherwise, pretty self explanitory

Mandibuzz, a mon that doesn't change all that much in the grand scheme of things, thanks to it's average stats.
The only thing that changes is that it loses def for a better spA stat, but, unfortunately, I almost never see anyone running spA moves anyway with mandibuzz, unless someone spams snarl. Feel free to call me an Idiot though

And lastly, the frail regilieki has now become a super bulky boy, with over 600 hp and solid def stats to take hits. However, with its limited movepool, you really only have 2 options, run light clay to be a screen setter, or run thundercage, Rapid spin, Thunderwave, and maybe something like elctroweb/ Eerie impulse to trap and shutdown the influx of SpA in the mode. Good for chip damage and tanking blows, bad at, well, coverage. Still like my boi tho


Team 2, electric Boogaloo (RIP Melmetal, you will be missed.)

https://pokepast.es/a61aca543c62cd8e

Dragu: So, our speedy heavy hitter becomes a bulky wall. Kinda cool if you think about it, as now you have a reliable wisper as well moves like DD to get your attack and Speed back up, with phantom force for a stab move and sucker punch to try and kill those speedy glass canons. Otherwise, Not much else to say. Its kinda cool seeing the roles of mons change in this mode, however.

Melmetal (RIP my shiny boi) Before he was banned today, Melmetal was by far my favorite flipped mon. Access to great spA coverage moves, super fast, and hits like a train with its own spA moves. Throw on expert belt, and you got yourselves a decent spA sweeper. Useless ability now, tho.

Next up we Have Volcanion, with one of the coolest type combinations, and decent stats, now flipped! He his now slightly faster with better def, with a loss to spA, but nothing evs and IV's won't fix. Great moves for coverage, like earth power, Steam erup, sludge, etc.

Thunderus! Wooo! This lad becomes slower, but DAMN is he bulkier. More hp, more defenses, and access to prankster moves, the speed loss is negligable. You can run a taunter twave defogger, or a more offensive rought with flying stabs and bulk up and defiant. Lots of options for this guy.

Next, tangrowth! He loses hp, but he becomes SO much more defensive and faster, as he loses his high attack for high SpD. His spA and def stay the same tho, so you got yourself a tank with low hp. Moves like leech seed and giga drain help keep him alive, with sludge bomb and toxic to screw over mons who overstay thier welcome. Lots of options for this lad, which is why I played around with him.

Next is a bit of an Odd choice, but I live with it. Goliospod is one of my favorite mons, but he changes Drastically when in flipped.
No longer a slow, defensive heavy hitter, he is now a faster, specially definsive spA. Wether this is good or bad, I don't know, but the loss of hp coupled with his mediocre ability hurts him in the long run. I'm curious to see if anyone can build a more impressive set.

Now, on to team three, Regiregiregi!
All the regis share one thing in common, each usually have a massive stat in something, now, with flipped, we can see them used in interesting ways.
Behold!

https://pokepast.es/ce3198c7b6f14eee

So, first up, we have The icey lad. He is no longer a special sweeper, instead, he now has more offensive physical capabilities than ever, and as Tailglow said above me, with access to the punch moves and explosion, he is a force to be reckoned with if the oppenet doesn't take it seriously

Now is the game of thrones reference, Drago! Fast and bulky is the name of the game here, so Thats why I built this bad boi with screensetting, as well as breaking swipe and draco to hinder physical attackers. He's fast enough to outspeed mons like Rhyperior, so its nice to be able to quickly set up screens.

Since the screensetter slot is taken, Regi lieki now has a role as a chip damage user and trapper. Again, super bulky with chip damage potential, As well as a good switch in for Final gambit users like accellgor since he has the hp to tank the hit, He's here to kill off glass canons threats and clear the field with rapids spin

Now we have The steely boi, who switches from a defensive role to an offensive role, however, I tried to do a mix of both, with ID and amnesia for longevity, and charge beam for coverage and SpA boost and Flash canon for a great stab move. Fairys beware. Still cool as hell, tho, and I like how he changed.

Now, the solid ROCK of a lad, Regirock. Holy crap, it's special attack is INSANE. With a powerherb and stab Meteor beam, at a +1 special A boost he is almost at 900 spA, more than enough to kill off any non spc d tank. Thunderbolt, earth power compliment this impressive sweeper, with ancient power for a stab spA move that fishes for that omniboost. Can easily run away with the game if the oppenet isn't careful

Lasty, its the Papa Regi himself, Gigas! He..He's really funky in flipped. Now a spD tank, he's SLIGHTLY faster with decent bulk. still a terrible ability, but now your slightly bulker with less defensive capabilities, He still gets moves like PUP and Twave, so he has decent utility, and can now switch in to special attackers. Also has other interesting moves, and you can now run him as a SpA himself since he now has the option of doing so, but lack luster spA moves hinder this. Thunderbolt, ancient power, Focus blast, maybe icywind, and thats about in, unless you wanna go with a one hit KO with hyperbeam or somethin, since everything is squisher


Well, there you have it, folks, three teams I made, and three dumb teams I made, Ahah, Feel free to leave a comment or suggestions, I LOVE talking to you guys. Really happy with this mode.

Running max speed with a boosting nature on Regice, Regirock and Registeel would make that team so much better

 

[Nighstar o3o]

Running max speed with a boosting nature on Regice, Regirock and Registeel would make that team so much better

I tried it out, but they lose the ability to OHKO setup mons. Speed is nice, but good health is also omportant

 

[Schpoonman]

I've been very much enjoying Kartana so far. Been using a terrible Trick Room team and its ability to sweep outside Trick Room thanks to its obnoxious typing, absolutely stupendous Special bulk*, self-boosting, and access to just enough coverage and some priority in the very rare Vacuum Wave have made it the most reliable member of my team.

Kartana @ Occa Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 29 SpD / 0 Spe
- Steel Beam
- Giga Drain
- Vacuum Wave
- Air Slash

248 HP EVs lets you live two Steel Beams, and 29 SpD IVs nets you SpA boosts from Beast Boost. Air Slash obliterates Pheromosa, but you could replace it with some of Kartana's actually kinda surprising movepool. I originally had Defog there, but Calm Mind, Synthesis, and Tailwind are all options as well. I've been using HDBs but I've listed Occa because the boots have done surprisingly little (I've seen very little Spikes) and I'm very interested in seeing what I can live based on the following damage calculation.

*: +1 252 SpA Rhyperior Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 352-416 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EDIT: After watching a game where both sides are using Latias, I want to highlight her as well.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Outrage
- Psycho Cut
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

As is my standard, I suck at building and the item could probably be something else, but I get shades of Full Power Latias, RIP, whenever I've used her in Flipped. A lot of threatening Pokemon give up HP and Defense for their offense and no one remembers Latias gets Sucker Punch until she's shaved off 70% while they can only chip her thanks to a very stout 110/110/80 bulk. I'm seeing quite a few Dragon Dance sets and while I don't think they're bad I do think there's a lot of Pokemon throwing around SE priority that will wreck her before she can properly get the ball rolling.

 

[Zxcsq5]

Feel like sharing a semi-recent discovery I made



At first I was pretty dismissive about Rillaboom, as its Attack had dropped significantly. What I forgot was that Grassy Glide is a busted move and this funny monkey can still put in work.

Here's a comparison to our best Priority users right now:

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 163-193 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 129-153 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 144-171 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
(Mew was not Psychic in this calc)

This is still devastatingly powerful despite Rillaboom's paltry Base 70 Attack; I'm pretty sure this is the strongest one-turn Priority attack in the meta.

Not only that, but Rillaboom looks extremely valuable as an offensive check to lots of other offensive Pokemon.

LO Jolly used as I think that's its most versatile set, though Band works and has its upsides.

252+ SpA Rhyperior Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 180-212 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 268-316 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rhyperior Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 135-159 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I shouldn't have to mention that Glide KO's. Specs Ice Beam is a problem but you can still live since Rillaboom's SpDef is honestly fantastic.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron in Grassy Terrain: 333-394 (138.1 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Avalugg in Grassy Terrain: 238-281 (120.8 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Both of these have Sturdy, which means they need to not be at full to drop. I thought about Jolly Bullet Seed as an answer: You do have a chance to drop Avalugg with just two hits, and since you outspeed that's really useful. Aggron lives sadly, but with some luck you could break past it.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax in Grassy Terrain: 185-218 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Decent chance to KO Lax, and if it took any chip from hazards/BD it pretty much drops.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey in Grassy Terrain: 286-339 (118.6 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Chansey drops too. Its so fast that you could tech some Defense EVs to live, but then you sacrifice the Chansey mirror and maybe some Scarfers.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon in Grassy Terrain: 121-142 (46.3 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon in Grassy Terrain: 204-242 (78.1 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pixilate Sylveon Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 195-229 (62.7 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

This is where our low attack starts to be an issue. Sylveon can be RK'd at low health but otherwise can get off a strong Quick Attack. If we in turn are healthy, a Wood Hammer can severely dent it, or just potentially KO with Band.

252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish in Grassy Terrain: 173-204 (59.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

This isn't too impressive either, as Vish needs to be put in range to fall. At the very least you can outspeed non-Scarf without Sand up and smash it with Hammer.
252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish in Grassy Terrain: 296-348 (101.7 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's not the most amazing thing out there but it's really good Priority that handles a lot of big threats or at least can scare them out. In particular I think SD sets could be really dangerous versus Offensive teams.




On a related note I do think we're in a position to possibly unban Psychic Surge, now that a viable option exists that can nullify its Priority-blocking effects, whilst also packing strong Priority itself. There are a few mons which hold me back from being sure about this, but there is at least a form of counterplay to it.

Did you do all the calcs with Flipped stats?

 

[shnowshner]

Did you do all the calcs with Flipped stats?

If I hadn't I'm going to invent time travel to kick my teeth in.


Okay yeah after checking on the calc real quick it's accurate. Grassy Glide is really strong priority: 70 BP x 1.3 from Terrain and STAB is equal to 136.5 BP (before any rounding idk if there is off the top of my head). Sure Rillaboom doesn't have amazing Attack, but if we compare the "raw Attack Stat and Base Power" versus say Sylveon:

Rillaboom (Adamant): 262 x 136.5 (70 BP + STAB + Terrain) = 35,763
Sylveon (Adamant): 394 x 72 (40 BP + STAB + Pixilate) = 28,368

That's a significant difference in "attack power" despite Sylveon's maximum invested Attack stat being ~1.5x higher than Rillaboom's. Basically, what Rilla lacks in Attack is made up for in sheer multipliers to STAB moves.

Also yeah, a big reason it's useable is just how physically frail a lot of Pokemon are, and having a decent Speed tier of 100 allows it to get the jump on faster Priority users if it gets the chance, or simply outpace slower offensive mons and smash them with Wood Hammer.

Cool mon I want to try more but unfortunately this is one of the busiest weeks I've had in terms of work so my ability to play is low right now.

 

[Nighstar o3o]

If I hadn't I'm going to invent time travel to kick my teeth in.


Okay yeah after checking on the calc real quick it's accurate. Grassy Glide is really strong priority: 70 BP x 1.3 from Terrain and STAB is equal to 136.5 BP (before any rounding idk if there is off the top of my head). Sure Rillaboom doesn't have amazing Attack, but if we compare the "raw Attack Stat and Base Power" versus say Sylveon:

Rillaboom (Adamant): 262 x 136.5 (70 BP + STAB + Terrain) = 35,763
Sylveon (Adamant): 394 x 72 (40 BP + STAB + Pixilate) = 28,368

That's a significant difference in "attack power" despite Sylveon's maximum invested Attack stat being ~1.5x higher than Rillaboom's. Basically, what Rilla lacks in Attack is made up for in sheer multipliers to STAB moves.

Also yeah, a big reason it's useable is just how physically frail a lot of Pokemon are, and having a decent Speed tier of 100 allows it to get the jump on faster Priority users if it gets the chance, or simply outpace slower offensive mons and smash them with Wood Hammer.

Cool mon I want to try more but unfortunately this is one of the busiest weeks I've had in terms of work so my ability to play is low right now.

Have you checked Hitmonstop with all his priorty moves?

 

[Moisture99]

Just curious as to why this mon remains banned.
125/90/90/80/125/90 with no recovery really doesn't seem that overwhelming, especially with some of the defensive behemoths in the tier.
I'm not very experienced in this format, so I'd welcome an informed opinion on this from someone who is.