EVOlution 1 - Part 2 - Pokémon Poll 3!

[tennisace]

One point to make: what would a Houndoom evolution bring to OU that Heatran can't already do? Heatran has Metal Sound, better resistances, is much bulkier, and has Flash Fire. What would you do with a Houndoom evo, boost Special Attack and Speed? Wow thats a great project. We might as well just tweak its stats, and have someone draw up a quick picture.

When making the process for the EVO project, I had the opposite vision than Doug. I wanted it to be used to give evolutions that had a ton of room for improvement, because the more you have to improve, the more creative you can be.

With Houndoom (and I'm not trying to poll jump), I can say that we're going to boost its Defense by about 20 Points, and its Special Attack and Speed by 10 points each.

With Farfetch'd, it could be Physical, it could be Mixed, it could be bulky, it could be a wall, it could be a sweeper. It could be ANY type. It could be anything.

If you want a cookie cutter tweak, vote Houndoom.

If you want change, vote Farfetch'd. (And Obama)

 

[beej]

Vote Houndoom for hope and change we need, rather than more of the same! (aka another CAP)

 

[Yamaha]

Houndoom needs a Evolution because Heatran can outclass Houndoom in almost every fucking way except his typing. Plus the EVO design could be interesting for Houndoom.. :)

 

[Infiltrator]

One point to make: what would a Houndoom evolution bring to OU that Heatran can't already do? Heatran has Metal Sound, better resistances, is much bulkier, and has Flash Fire. What would you do with a Houndoom evo, boost Special Attack and Speed? Wow thats a great project. We might as well just tweak its stats, and have someone draw up a quick picture.

When making the process for the EVO project, I had the opposite vision than Doug. I wanted it to be used to give evolutions that had a ton of room for improvement, because the more you have to improve, the more creative you can be.

With Houndoom (and I'm not trying to poll jump), I can say that we're going to boost its Defense by about 20 Points, and its Special Attack and Speed by 10 points each.

With Farfetch'd, it could be Physical, it could be Mixed, it could be bulky, it could be a wall, it could be a sweeper. It could be ANY type. It could be anything.

If you want a cookie cutter tweak, vote Houndoom.

If you want change, vote Farfetch'd. (And Obama)

Tennis made a huge point on why Doom doesn't need EVO and he is absolutely right....VOTE OBAMA!.

 

[tennisace]

Houndoom needs a Evolution because Heatran can outclass Houndoom in almost every fucking way except his typing. Plus the EVO design could be interesting for Houndoom.. :)

Replace Houndoom with Farfetch'd and replace Heatran with "Every Flying Type".

 

[Darth Meanie]

Farfetch'd allows us more room to create ideas. Farfetch'd is an open canvas, Houndoom is pretty much set in stone. Also, I really can't see Houndoom becoming much different than Heatran if he evolved; he couldn't add much to the metagame.

Edit: Basically Tennisace said everything better too.

 

[Calad]

One point to make: what would a Houndoom evolution bring to OU that Heatran can't already do? Heatran has Metal Sound, better resistances, is much bulkier, and has Flash Fire. What would you do with a Houndoom evo, boost Special Attack and Speed? Wow thats a great project. We might as well just tweak its stats, and have someone draw up a quick picture.

When making the process for the EVO project, I had the opposite vision than Doug. I wanted it to be used to give evolutions that had a ton of room for improvement, because the more you have to improve, the more creative you can be.

With Houndoom (and I'm not trying to poll jump), I can say that we're going to boost its Defense by about 20 Points, and its Special Attack and Speed by 10 points each.

With Farfetch'd, it could be Physical, it could be Mixed, it could be bulky, it could be a wall, it could be a sweeper. It could be ANY type. It could be anything.

If you want a cookie cutter tweak, vote Houndoom.

If you want change, vote Farfetch'd. (And Obama)

Yes. I think the same, and I changed my vote to Farfetch'd... because... is more creative project [And have multiple choices, like Latinoheat said: "farfetch'd stats don't really lean in any direction"] than a Boosted Houndoom.

 

[Infiltrator]

Houndoom needs a Evolution because Heatran can outclass Houndoom in almost every fucking way except his typing. Plus the EVO design could be interesting for Houndoom.. :)

Tennis just explained why Houndoom won't need Evo even if it gets EVO Tran will still be more Bulkyer than Doom and Heatran's SP.atk will still overpower Doom's Sp.atk and so the only Doom will Outclass tran in if he gets evo is speed.

 

[Nasty Pass]

I like how we all fail to mention Nasty Plot the potential to go mixed when referring to Heatran still having more over Houndoom+.

 

[Deck Knight]

Farfetch'd allows us more room to create ideas. Farfetch'd is an open canvas, Houndoom is pretty much set in stone. Also, I really can't see Houndoom becoming much different than Heatran if he evolved; he couldn't add much to the metagame.

Edit: Basically Tennisace said everything better too.

We have every single CAP project for an open canvass.

Essentially you want EVO and CAP to be indistinguishable.

Or, to put it in simpler terms "Get it on with CAP6 already!"

 

[Wichu]

This thread needs more Farfetch'd love...
TBH, I can't see where the "Staraptor clone" argument is coming from. Does Staraptor take neutral damage from SR? Does Farfetch'd (evo) get Intimidate? Does Staraptor get Fighting STAB? Its stats will probably end up a lot different, anyway...
Also, on the issue of Stick, what about hax items clause?

 

[Deck Knight]

This thread needs more Farfetch'd love...
TBH, I can't see where the "Staraptor clone" argument is coming from. Does Staraptor take neutral damage from SR? Does Farfetch'd (evo) get Intimidate? Does Staraptor get Fighting STAB? Its stats will probably end up a lot different, anyway...
Also, on the issue of Stick, what about hax items clause?

The argument was more in the vein of "Staraptor+" than Staraptor clone.

If Farfy does pull it out, to agitate bangwagoners Ima gon' give my vision of Fetch'd 2.0 as great passer. Maybe even with NP >_>

 

[Nasty Pass]

Wichu: Have we determined any of this yet?

 

[Infiltrator]

Farfetch'd allows us more room to create ideas. Farfetch'd is an open canvas, Houndoom is pretty much set in stone. Also, I really can't see Houndoom becoming much different than Heatran if he evolved; he couldn't add much to the metagame.

Edit: Basically Tennisace said everything better too.

I agree because if Doom get EVO nothing much will change its Move pool will stay the same and they Stats barely tweaks and is still outclassed by Tran.....and nothing much will change. But for Farfetch'd EVO its stat, Movepool and Ability changes.

 

[tennisace]

I like how we all fail to mention Nasty Plot the potential to go mixed when referring to Heatran still having more over Houndoom+.

Same base attack, with moves like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Iron Head, and Metal Sound is almost the same as Nasty Plot.

We have every single CAP project for an open canvas.

Essentially you want EVO and CAP to be indistinguishable.

Or, to put it in simpler terms "Get it on with CAP6 already!"

Actually, I wanted EVO and CAP to be quite close. I'm not going to deny that at all. I was under the impression that it was actually supposed to be the same as a normal CAP, except we had a bit of a head start. Houndoom is a big head start, since its basically done already. What would you do besides raise the stats? It doesn't need anything else in its movepool really, and it has great abilities. Its very fanboyish just to increase the stats. Its not very fanboyish to make a completely new mark on the metagame.

 

[sbc]

Agreeing with what tennis said in general, basically we're going to give Houndoom more speed and special attack but it's still going to be Heatran-lite with SR weak, likely unable to take down Blissey and a frail bastard.

Farfetch'd gives a lot more scope for stat distribution than Houndoom and has a lot more potential niches than just "Gengar/Azelf check" or random nasty plotting

 

[Infiltrator]

Agreeing with what tennis said in general, basically we're going to give Houndoom more speed and special attack but it's still going to be Heatran-lite with SR weak, likely unable to take down Blissey and a frail bastard.

Farfetch'd gives a lot more scope for stat distribution than Houndoom and has a lot more potential niches than just "Gengar/Azelf check" or random nasty plotting

True and with it being physical,mixed,sweeper or wall it will be able to take down Bliss and other Bulky types.

 

[phalanx]

voted for farfetch'd due to the fact that houndoom is already useful, whereas farfetch'd is currently useless and has potential, and i dont think would be as broken as a houndoom evo.

 

[Infiltrator]

voted for farfetch'd due to the fact that houndoom is already useful, whereas farfetch'd is currently useless and has potential, and i dont think would be as broken as a houndoom evo.

Its not that Doom's EVO will be broken its just that not much will change the movepool will stay the same stats barely budges(Tran's sp.atk still outclasses Doom's evo) so it wouldn't make much sence giving doom EVO and as you said about Farfetch'd he has alot of potential.

 

[Deck Knight]

Same base attack, with moves like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Iron Head, and Metal Sound is almost the same as Nasty Plot.



Actually, I wanted EVO and CAP to be quite close. I'm not going to deny that at all. I was under the impression that it was actually supposed to be the same as a normal CAP, except we had a bit of a head start. Houndoom is a big head start, since its basically done already. What would you do besides raise the stats? It doesn't need anything else in its movepool really, and it has great abilities. Its very fanboyish just to increase the stats. Its not very fanboyish to make a completely new mark on the metagame.

By this logic, Rhyperior and Dusknoir would be pointless because of their previous forms presense in the last metagame.

Moreover, you completely overlook what we could do with Houndoom aside from a limited Heatran- spin. There is already a Houndoom set that can beat Blissey, Substitute + Reversal. Nothing precludes us, for example, of giving Houndoom 110 Atk and Flare Blitz/Superpower, for example (110 Base Attack seems to be Superpower's cutoff).

In other words, you're psyched about what you could do with Farfy, but completely discount all but the most myopic visions of Houndoom. (All this and I didn't even vote for Houndoom in any other poll, LOL)

 

[DesignOfAges]

Meh, I'm split between the two.. I like them both, but I voted for Houndoom...

 

[Infiltrator]

I wonder if some of the people voting here are even reading the comments on the reasons why to vote for the pokemon.

 

[tennisace]

By this logic, Rhyperior and Dusknoir would be pointless because of their previous forms presense in the last metagame.

Dusknoir was pointless, because Dusclops was OU already. Rhyperior ended up BL, which IIRC was where Rhydon was anyway. So yeah, they were pretty much pointless.

Moreover, you completely overlook what we could do with Houndoom aside from a limited Heatran- spin. There is already a Houndoom set that can beat Blissey, Substitute + Reversal. Nothing precludes us, for example, of giving Houndoom 110 Atk and Flare Blitz/Superpower, for example (110 Base Attack seems to be Superpower's cutoff).

Ok, so 110 attack, 110+ Special Attack, 110+ Speed. Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Superpower, Dark Pulse. I think that just about takes the metagame, because what could take it down save a revenge kill by Scarftran or Dugtrio? Thats really completely illogical for a Houndoom evolution. Either way, its two moves added to the movepool and a stat tweak.

 

[Goodbar]

The question I have is - is houndoom evo going to be much different than infernape? It'll probably have higher base stats, but I can't see it filling much of a different niche.

 

[Deck Knight]

Dusknoir was pointless, because Dusclops was OU already. Rhyperior ended up BL, which IIRC was where Rhydon was anyway. So yeah, they were pretty much pointless.



Ok, so 110 attack, 110+ Special Attack, 110+ Speed. Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Superpower, Dark Pulse. I think that just about takes the metagame, because what could take it down save a revenge kill by Scarftran or Dugtrio? Thats really completely illogical for a Houndoom evolution. Either way, its two moves added to the movepool and a stat tweak.

HORROR! Why... It would be... as if we were taking a pokemon that previously existed, and then giving it one or two more moves than its previous form and enough stats to work in the OU Metagame, and then daring to call that an evolution. Madness I say.

It would also still have Houndoom's paper defenses. So uh, Weavile Brick Break for one. Any Scarfer with Earthquake. Rhyperior. Swampert. Infernape.

And how is it illogical, bearing in mind that I've been tweaking and come up with Houndoom+ set with 110/125/105 Atk/SA/Speed. Houndoom's highest stats in order are SA, Speed, Attack. Even faster evolutions have been known to have an attack stat pass above their speed slightly.

And here we go again with the comparisons of different pokemon that are barely warranted. Even if we went with my vision, Infernape would still have SR neutrality, Fighting STAB and different weaks/resists, Grass and Electic attacks not named Hidden Power, etc. If we're banning any pokemon that could possibly have a similar role to an existing pokemon, we should quit now and spare ourselves the trouble.