Pokémon Entei

[Lee]

yeah, Bulldoze is non-negotiable. Spamming Sacred Fire is Entei's thing so rendering yourself infertile against the tier's premiere Flash Fire user is suicide.

 

[TheTraininator]

Bulldoze might be crap

But Heatran a shit

Heatran is the reason a LOT of Pokemon have to run moves they would never run, just to hit it. Entei is already struggling enough vs the meta as is, no reason to run Blitz + Fire and make Entei lose to Heatran too when he has the option to actually OHKO him when Banded. Heatran will be his #1 switch-in, so a way to beat him is practically mandatory.

Being able to freely spam Sacred Fire whenever is key.

Alright, alright, Heatran's a little shit, and your point is very valid. Outside of OU however, I think Bulldoze should not be on any Entei set, and as such you might as well run both Fire Stabs; one's more accurate and powerful, one has no recoil and burns more often than Focus Blast misses, so clearly both have niches on Entei and should both be ran. If Entei actually got legitimate coverage, I'd say don't bother running both, but honestly it might as well, (again, outside of OU.)

 

[Photofluid]

"WoW on Ghosts."

Does that not include Trevenant and Gourgeist?

I mean the almost-special-attacker-exclusive statement later = =

Well, Entei does not really care about the two though

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

No reason to use both fire moves. The set should be Sacred Fire / Extreme Speed / Stone Edge / Bulldoze. Stone Edge allows you to ko both charizards, dragonite and gyarados (non mega). Like seriously, i saw people here saying flare blitz has merits over sacred fire and wtf, sacred fire makes flare blitz (and any other move not named seed flare) look like poop.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

it'll be possible that our Enteis won't get Sacred Fire...same might be said for Tornadus and Aeroblast. I played Battle Subway with my brother and we came across a Klinklang with FOCUS BLAST! AI in the Battle Frontier/Subway/Maison is cheap and a bunch of cheaters, so...it's possible that it might not get it.

I will now take back what I said earlier with the following statement: Gamefreak gave Entei a true gift and I will hope for Tornadus getting Aeroblast.

Anyways, if Hackmons has said anything before with Fire-Type Pokemon getting Sacred Fire, this will make Entei one of the most difficult Pokemon to take out. Opposing Fire-Types, particularly Air Balloon Heatran, check Sacred Fire but are put back down with either Bulldoze or Stone Edge, respectively. Physical Attackers would refuse to switch into Entei, what with the risk of having their Gyarados or Landorus-T crippled for the rest of the match. It doesn't help that Defog's boost and Excadrill's presence has made Hazards less of an issue, meaning that Entei can actually find times to safely switch into battle. Personally, I'm using the Choice Band set to some success and am enjoying many of the merits Entei gives to a team. The only true downside is being Mono-Fire, but that's of no concern anymore. Sacred Fire's 8 PP is migitated afterwards since you can burn Pokemon so easily, which I believe is Entei's new role: A Burning Attacker. This makes it roleplay as a Support Pokemon in an odd way, giving its team a way to stomach Physical Moves once the cleric has been removed (if one exists on the team, that is).

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

Alright, alright, Heatran's a little shit, and your point is very valid. Outside of OU however, I think Bulldoze should not be on any Entei set, and as such you might as well run both Fire Stabs; one's more accurate and powerful, one has no recoil and burns more often than Focus Blast misses, so clearly both have niches on Entei and should both be ran. If Entei actually got legitimate coverage, I'd say don't bother running both, but honestly it might as well, (again, outside of OU.)

Of course, to hit flash fire users in every other tier, *Stone Edge* is nonnegotiable, already putting you up to STAB/ESpeed/Stone Edge. Iron head, as has been mentioned before (or bulldoze), hits a lot of rock users that would otherwise wall this set for more damage: it hits Rhyperior, Golem, Eviolite Rhydon, Tyranitar [if you're playing OU], and others. This easily puts you up to four moves.

Additionally, I think that Bulldoze could see serious use on non-choiced entei sets. For instance, it would help ease prediction for an assault vest user: bulldoze something on the switch, then outspeed and finish it off with the appropriate coverage move. With 196 Spe Adamant, after a bulldoze Entei can even outspeed Accelegor and Scarfed base 80s, giving the move some definite uses. Finally, against set up sweepers who can't be burned (think Dragon Dance M-Charizard-X if you don't carry stone edge, or else Swords Dance Floatzel (Water Veil)) Bulldoze provides a way to stop set up outside of trying for a 50% burn chance. Not great, but in a movepool as sparse as Entei's, it's still usable. In practice, I believe Entei will hardly ever use all eight pp of sacred fire, and flare blitz's power is just too similar to net any particularly important KOs.

Assault Vest set I think Bulldoze is definitely the right move; with Choice Band it'll be interesting to see.

 

[November Blue]

On coverage moves:

Rock-types, such as Tyranitar, and some bulky waters "wall" Entei. Sure, it;d need to run coverage moves to get past them, but think about it. Are any of them even going to stand in Entei's way?

Tyranitar doesn't wall Sacred Fire. The burn would ruin it. Bulky waters? No more Leftovers, I guess?

So, the set would be: Sacred Fire for obvious reasons. Extremespeed, because it's priority. Bulldoze for Heatran.

Bulldoze is super effective on Fire-types that shrug off Scared Fire, but Stone Edge is a more powerful option that threatens Talonflame switchins.

So Entei arguably doesn't need coverage; its role isn't that of a sweeper or cleaner. It threatens almost everything with Sacred Fire, so it just needs to be able to break the pokes that Sacred Fire doesn't threaten.

 

[Jaroda]

Let's just say this.

If there were reasons to run Flare Blitz then Entei would be OU already.

This can not be argued. If you aren't using Sacred Fire, don't use Entei It's that simple.


0+ Atk burned Assault Vest Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 175-207 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 136-162 (34.6 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk burned Dragonite Earthquake vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 141-166 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 115-136 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk burned Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 140-170 (35.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 158-188 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Just showing some defense calcs. Many of these switch ins are devastated by the burn and damage. Choice Band Azumarill can't even 2HKO with Aqua Jet. Assault Vest is great for spreading more burns around, Choice Band is better if you are intent on killing things.

 

[Always!]

Let's just say this.

If there were reasons to run Flare Blitz then Entei would be OU already.

This can not be argued. If you aren't using Sacred Fire, don't use Entei It's that simple.

This in a nutshell.

Entei's only thing is Sacred Fire. Please don't use him otherwise.

 

[Hiphopanonymous]

I'm actually LOVING Entei right now, Sacred Fire is amazing. Using LO at the moment, sacrificing longevity for the ability to switch moves. It pairs up pretty well with Rotom-W as well, both of whom cover each other's weaknesses decently, and smashing each other's counters. Having a Wish Passer on the team is amazing, as it lets Entei not really give a damn about SR in most situations, especially Florges, who doesn't like Flash Cannons.

I'm using Adamant 252atk/252spe/4hp if anybody's wondering. Out of curiosity, would a bulky set with SF/Toxic/Bulldoze/whatever be useful? Using SF to spread Burn and hitting some counters with Toxic SOUNDS pretty awesome in theory, wondering if anybody's tried a bulky set yet.

 

[Rotosect]

Even with Sacred Fire I don't find Entei to be particularly threatening.
Consider this: with WoW now having 85% accuracy, how many teams already packed something that can absorb burn? Disregarding obvious fire- and water-type switch-ins, Gliscor, Conkeldurr and Reuniclus come to mind.
Sure it also deals damage but its coverage moves pretty much suck. Any team prepared to deal with burns will have no trouble dealing with Entei.

 

[TrippingRocks]

Even with Sacred Fire I don't find Entei to be particularly threatening.
Consider this: with WoW now having 85% accuracy, how many teams already packed something that can absorb burn? Disregarding obvious fire- and water-type switch-ins, Gliscor, Conkeldurr and Reuniclus come to mind.
Sure it also deals damage but its coverage moves pretty much suck. Any team prepared to deal with burns will have no trouble dealing with Entei.

What makes Sacred Fire such a great move is that it has a good base power AND a good chance of burning the target. Entei's usual counters may not take much damage from Sacred Fire, but they'll run a chance of getting burned. For any physical attacker, they'd be extremely reluctant to switch in on Entei, even if they resist his attacks (unless they're flat out immune to burn). A burn on pretty much anything is good, even if the target isn't a physical attacker, the chip damage from burn quickly racks up. Unlike Will-O-Wisp, Sacred Fire isn't simply a status move. It can't be taunted, it can't be bounced back, and if it hits, it'll likely deal a good chunk of damage to anything that doesn't resist it.

Sacred Fire is a great tool for Entei, providing him with more utility and survivability than Flare Blitz (granted, Flare Blitz has the merit of having more raw power).

 

[alejandrawrrr]

Adamant means you are outsped by Jolly Excadrill by 3 points. You'll also be outsped by max speed Hyderigon, Excadrill, Haxorus, Landorus-T, Lucario, Kyurem-B, Roserade, and Mega Garchomp. Excadrill and Landlos primarily will be a problem unless you use Balloon. Max speed Adamant puts you just over Timid Rotom-W, although that version usually runs Choice Scarf. I think at the least you want 288 Speed to outrun Gyarados and Mega Venusaur/Dragonite/Mamoswine.

Hmm... Keeping that in mind, do you guys think 88 HP/212 Atk/208 Spe the best set for a somewhat bulky Adamant CB set? That's the best one I've been able to come up with, reaching that 288 speed, while not sacrificing too much power (packing as much as positive base 110s).

 

[Jaroda]

I'm looking into what 2HKOs Life Orb nets you over Assault Vest to see if its worth it with Sacred Fire.

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 156-185 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
252 Atk burned Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 204-240 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Life Orb you can 2HKO Landorus-T on the switch with Intimidate and survive if he's burned. Pretty iffy.

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 138-164 (32.8 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
4 Atk burned Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 136-162 (34.6 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Surprisingly you'll win this scenario if you burn him, with Assault Vest its a 4HKO, but this doesn't factor in Slack Off.

252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 396-468 (112.5 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

OHKO on Ferrothorn regardless, making him a good switch into him barring Thunder Wave.

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 101-121 (27.7 - 33.2%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 182-216 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 122-146 (31.1 - 37.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 126-150 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 164-195 (45 - 53.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage

Life Orb Bulldoze is a clean 2HKO if Tentacruel switches into it, otherwise it will take three hits to KO him and thats on top of LO recoil. Assault Vest can take a Scald better and still 3HKO Tentacruel without taking LO recoil on top of it.

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 153-181 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
252+ Atk burned Snorlax Earthquake vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Entei: 122-144 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- 71.2% chance to 3HKO

I say if its going to take 3 hits with Life Orb to kill something then get out, its not in your favor.

Overall it seems the damage differential is not worth the LO recoil and lack of SpD that Assault Vest would provide. Without a means of boosting his At (asside from Flash fire) the recoil does not merit the meager damage buffs. I think this means Flame Charge isn't really worth it since Life Orb doesn't boost your attack enough. I think that means Assault Vest, Balloon or Choice Band/Scarf are your best options.

 

[Lee]

Life Orb is sorta pointless when you're going to be using Sacred Fire 99% of the time and it compromises Entei's great bulk. It may be okay for some one-two-punch 2HKOs with SF + Extremespeed against faster foes but I think Choice Band and Assault Vest are both infinitely superior uses of Entei's unique skillset.

 

[Ogami]

What about good old leftovers? Entei wins plenty of switches, meaning plenty of free turns of healing. I haven't touched the set I posted a while ago, but with 168 Hp ev's and lefties Entei can stick around for a while. I do like the sounds of assault vest however, but with no recovery and a mean weakness to SR (I know, I know defog and all, but rocks can be used against you by a smart opponent, often with the intent of setting up on your defogger/spinner), it iffy to me to attempt a bulky attacker without some way of gaining a little back. Any turn you cause a switch, or get a kill with e speed is free recovery, and that can add up to a lot when he's played correctly.

 

[NotSoClutch]

And here i thought the Raikou vs Jolten argument ended?

To be fair, I hadn't ever played RU, so I was not well versed in entei. I have since seen evidence that the two are different enough to have more than one move niches.

 

[November Blue]

I haven't used entai yet, I'm more of an Emboar fan as far as fire type poké's go in RU. If I had to use it my move set would be:

Entei: Choice Band
Adamant
EVs: 252 attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 Hp

Flare Blitz/Sacred Fire
E-speed
Stone Edge
Iron Head

There are lots of things wrong with this. One, don't put the 4 remaining EVs in HP; it will make Entei's HP an even number, which increases Stealth Rock damage. 25% of an odd numbered HP will leave Entei with 1% when it switches in a fourth time, rather than be KOed.

Two, don't use Iron Head. Its coverage is awful, and Entei needs Bulldoze to get past Heatran.

Three, do not use Flare Blitz. Ever. Sacred Fire is the only reason that Entei is seeing any use, as its inferior to many other Fire-types without it.

Read through the last few pages of this thread. There's some valuable information here.

 

[midend]

Entei laughs at Aegislash

He avoids the ATK down penalty by Aegislash's KS due to Sacred Fire not making contact

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 344-408 (106.1 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 266-314 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Aegislash is forced out, and the incoming switch-in takes massive damage from another banded SF.

I won't use the word, but I have to.
This is g** as hell.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

Good thing no one is gonna switch Aegislash into Entei. Come on, post something that actually makes him stand out, not "he roasts steel types dumb enough to switch in like every fire type ever"

 

[midend]

Im saying that Entei is good at forcing switches with its Banded Set. One can use this opportunity to weaken teammate counters or simply pull a double to turn the tides in your favor, in this case the forced switch of Aegislash

 

[alexwolf]

I prefer Leftovers to Assault Vest on Entei. Entei is a pretty good check to Pokemon such as Aegislash, Scizor, and Gensect, two of which are constantly spamming U-turn. Not only this, but i usually like to keep Entei alive as long as i can, to burn as much stuff as i can and have his useful priority to deal with dangerous sweepers, which means that Leftovers gives to Entei better overall longevity than Assault Vest would have.

 

[aVocado]

Even with Sacred Fire I don't find Entei to be particularly threatening.
Consider this: with WoW now having 85% accuracy, how many teams already packed something that can absorb burn? Disregarding obvious fire- and water-type switch-ins, Gliscor, Conkeldurr and Reuniclus come to mind.
Sure it also deals damage but its coverage moves pretty much suck. Any team prepared to deal with burns will have no trouble dealing with Entei.

You do realize out of the 3 Pokemon you mentioned, only Gliscor has the ability to reliably switch in and not get 2HKO'd by CB Entei's Sacred Fire, and only thanks to Poison Heal recovery?

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 258-304 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 213-252 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 160-189 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO

And, in return:
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 236-282 (63.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 87-103 (23.3 - 27.6%) -- 79.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 130-154 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Granted, you shouldn't keep Entei if Gliscor isn't in the KO range of Sacred Fire anyway, but that was just to show that Entei can hurt Gliscor pretty badly.

And for the people who use AV or bulky Leftovers Entei, can you post the exact set/EV spread please?

 

[innki]

You do realize out of the 3 Pokemon you mentioned, only Gliscor has the ability to reliably switch in and not get 2HKO'd by CB Entei's Sacred Fire, and only thanks to Poison Heal recovery?

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 258-304 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 213-252 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 160-189 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO

And, in return:
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 236-282 (63.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 87-103 (23.3 - 27.6%) -- 79.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 130-154 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Granted, you shouldn't keep Entei if Gliscor isn't in the KO range of Sacred Fire anyway, but that was just to show that Entei can hurt Gliscor pretty badly.

And for the people who use AV or bulky Leftovers Entei, can you post the exact set/EV spread please?

I use assault vest and my EV spread is 252 ATK/ 252 SPEED/ 4 HP. Moveset is Sacred Fire/ Bulldoze(to counter heatran mainly)/ Stone Edge and Extreme speed.

 

[November Blue]

I use assault vest and my EV spread is 252 ATK/ 252 SPEED/ 4 HP. Moveset is Sacred Fire/ Bulldoze(to counter heatran mainly)/ Stone Edge and Extreme speed.

One, don't put the 4 remaining EVs in HP; it will make Entei's HP an even number, which increases Stealth Rock damage. 25% of an odd numbered HP will leave Entei with 1% when it switches in a fourth time, rather than be KOed.