Pokémon Empoleon

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Ixeilon

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#395
Water / Steel
84 HP / 86 Atk / 88 Def / 111 S.Atk / 101 S.Def / 60 Speed

Abilities

Torrent- When HP is below 1/3rd, Water’s power increases to 1.5 times.
Defiant- Attack is raised by two stages when the Pokémon has its stats lowered. Doesn't work on self inflicted stat drops or drops from allies.

Notable moves

Scald
Hydro Pump
Surf
Flash Cannon
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Agility
Roar
Yawn
Knock Off(Gen 5 tutor)
Stealth Rock(Gen 5 tutor)
Defog(Gen 4 HM)


Empoleon still has its claim of being the only pokemon in the game to have Water/Steel typing. This gives it 10 resistances(Ice and Steel being 4x) 1 immunity(Poison) and weaknesses to Ground, Fighting and Electric.

Potential Movesets

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Roar
- Protect / Stealth Rock

Advantages of this set over SpD Heatran are:

- Checks Azumarill, mostly AV sets, but can check CB Azumarill once
- Can keep CM Suicune in check until late-game
- Counters Greninja
- Counters SubBounce regular Gyarados with Roar
- Checks Manaphy
- Fares better against choiced Keldeo, giving your team a good switch-in to its Water attacks
- Fares much better against rain teams, thanks to its ability to check all of Kabutops, Omastar, and Kingdra (though not all together, it will get worn down), as well as Politoed itself
- Doesn't fear Earthquake from Latios as much as Heatran

Basically, if your team is very Water-weak Empoleon is a decent choice for a special tank to consider over Heatran. And here is the offensive set:

Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam

Empoleon is one of the few offensive Pokemon able to counter CM Clefable and CM Suicune, which is a pretty big deal for offensive teams. It also outspeeds and deals 68% damage minimum to Jolly max Speed Azumarill, which is always a OHKO after SR, Belly Drum, and Sitrus. Its power is also great and the only things that wall it are Chansey, SpD Sylveon, SpD Rotom-W, and Cresselia, all of which except from Chansey are very rare. Flash Cannon easily 2HKOes +1 Clefable and max HP Mega Venusaur after SR, Grass Knot has a 87% chance to 3HKO +2 Suicune, so you have a pretty good chance at beating it if you switch into it immediately, and Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn. Ice Beam is nice for Dragon- and Grass-types, but Flash Cannon already 2HKOes both Latios and Latias and they can't OHKO back with Thunderbolt, but if your team appreciates getting the OHKO with Ice Beam on Latios as it comes in with SR, then Ice Beam is for you. Ice Beam is also nice to do more to Amoonguss and SpD Celebi, but Flash Cannon already 2HKOes Amoonguss (granted, he can switch out, but so can you) and SpD Celebi is kinda rare from my experience, while Flash Cannon 2HKOes PhD Celebi. It faces huge competition with Keldeo and Greninja as a special Water-type nuke, but Clefable is such a massive threat that Empoleon is worth using sometimes, especially because it also handles some other Pokemon those two can't (checks Lati@s without Thunderbolt, Suicune, can switch into BD Azumarill unlike the other two, checks Greninja).
 
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It's really too bad that Empoleon has come all this way and still doesn't have a reliable recovery move. I think Slack Off or Recover would very easily make him top tier. But then again I don't think any of the Bulky water starters have been given a proper recovery move.
 
I think the bigger problem is having a Water pokemon on your team that doesn't resist Fire. Makes him a hard sell for any FWG core, despite having many niche capabilities like Defog and Stealth Rock. Its also hard to function as a special wall when you can't wall Rotom-W. Still the Specs set has some potential merit because of his SR resistance, good switch in opportunities and unique move pool, but utility sets seem the most useful.
 
For me, it's best use is to set up SR while having great offensive presence. But then Heatran is far better, being stronger, bulkier and having much better defensive typing (yes, Fire typing here outdoes the mighty water typing defensively).
Well, Defog now sets Empoleon apart, so you'll have to make use of it if you don't want Empoleon to get outclassed.

That said, Assault Vest doesn't seem a bad idea. Ground and Fighting attacks are mostly physical (Earth Power and Aura Sphere are somewhat rare, and Focus Miss always misses), and while being neutral to fire, it's also neutral to grass. And still has all those resistances and good SpA to work with. Though all that could be said for Heatran too...
 
Jaroda said:
I think the bigger problem is having a Water pokemon on your team that doesn't resist Fire. Makes him a hard sell for any FWG core, despite having many niche capabilities like Defog and Stealth Rock. Its also hard to function as a special wall when you can't wall Rotom-W. Still the Specs set has some potential merit because of his SR resistance, good switch in opportunities and unique move pool, but utility sets seem the most useful.
Click to expand...
A water pokemon which doesn't resist fire AND is weak to earth, meaning it has a generally hard job supporting either side of the core, especially given his lack of reliable recovery. He's a cool pokemon but despite them being two of the best defensive typings in the game, steel actually isn't a great secondary typing for water pokemon.
 
I still hate TrollFreak for not granting it Roost... I mean, it's a penguin! But still, I agree with Jaroda, its utility sets remain its most attractive sets, given that it is still neutral to common attacking types that other bulky waters do resist. However, I am lured by your idea with Assault Vest... That does sound like it would aid in countering Special attackers; though we have to admit, it would still be (pretty) weak to Physical attackers that way...
 
How you you transfer Defog on Empoleon from gen 4 to gen 6? Isn't that a HM and needs to be removed before transfering to gen 5?
 
  • The Pokémon cannot know Hidden Moves (Cut, Fly, Surf, Strength, Defog, Whirlpool, Waterfall, Rock Climb) - Do note that you can send Pokémon with Defog through HeartGold & SoulSilver and Pokémon with Whirlpool through Diamond, Pearl & Platinum
    Click to expand...
From Serebii.
 
subfer1 said:
I still hate TrollFreak for not granting it Roost... I mean, it's a penguin! But still, I agree with Jaroda, its utility sets remain its most attractive sets, given that it is still neutral to common attacking types that other bulky waters do resist. However, I am lured by your idea with Assault Vest... That does sound like it would aid in countering Special attackers; though we have to admit, it would still be (pretty) weak to Physical attackers that way...
Click to expand...

Scalding them does help in that regard, even if it's not as reliable a way of padding one's defenses as a WoW burn is. It's also notable as being able to carry Knock Off as well, making it an interesting mix of tricks. If you were -really- desperate to surefire debuff, it can have Featherdance bred to it but that'd negate the use of Assault Vest.

Scald/Knock Off/Aqua Jet/(Flash Cannon or Ice Beam) might work well with Assault Vest.
 
Yeah even though it doesnt fly it should get roost only fair. ANyways im using this thing on showdown alongside Gourgeist and Rotom-H and it does fine. Must take Defog pff however if its apparently untransferable
 
I'm so mad at Gamefreak my favorite pokemon did not get roost this generation

But the cool thing is that he is an amazing Assault Vest abuser.

Modest Nature
100 HP/ 252 spatk/ 152 spdef
Assault Vest
Scald
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Flash Cannon

Yawn on his special wall set is really nice. Honestly Empoleon is a great pokemon (I'm not just biased because he's my favorite), it just takes the right usage.
 
Terminate421 said:
I'm so mad at Gamefreak my favorite pokemon did not get roost this generation

But the cool thing is that he is an amazing Assault Vest abuser.

Modest Nature
100 HP/ 252 spatk/ 152 spdef
Assault Vest
Scald
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Flash Cannon

Yawn on his special wall set is really nice. Honestly Empoleon is a great pokemon (I'm not just biased because he's my favorite), it just takes the right usage.
Click to expand...

Assault Vest means it can't run Defog or Stealth Rock, the two main reasons to use it right now. I'd rather have:

Empoleon@Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (rework as needed)
Nature: Calm
-Defog
-Stealth Rock
-Scald
-Ice Beam / Yawn

It's not like it has that great coverage anyways, or much offensive presence either.
 
AOPSUser said:
Assault Vest means it can't run Defog or Stealth Rock, the two main reasons to use it right now. I'd rather have:

Empoleon@Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (rework as needed)
Nature: Calm
-Defog
-Stealth Rock
-Scald
-Ice Beam / Yawn

It's not like it has that great coverage anyways, or much offensive presence either.
Click to expand...

Yeah i similar but with Flash Cannon as last move since the rest of my team can cover the ground/grass weakness
 
AOPSUser said:
Assault Vest means it can't run Defog or Stealth Rock, the two main reasons to use it right now. I'd rather have:

Empoleon@Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (rework as needed)
Nature: Calm
-Defog
-Stealth Rock
-Scald
-Ice Beam / Yawn

It's not like it has that great coverage anyways, or much offensive presence either.
Click to expand...


I know damn well about that set.

But what if I want to use my own methods?

I run Trick Room as one of my main team strategies and my Empoleon has several different varieties of specs he can be using. Remember, this isn't just what YOU'D want on my team. Honestly, the Empoleon I'm running focuses on an offensive presence, assault vest lets him take those hits better.

This doesn't mean I don't use the defensive method either.

I know you can breed aqua ring onto him via milotic, think teamed up with leftovers he could set up effective recovery?
 
I know you can breed aqua ring onto him via milotic, think teamed up with leftovers he could set up effective recovery?
Click to expand...
Recovery that vanishes everytime you swap out, and defense is all about swapping in and out.

It's not reliable at all, or else you'd be seeing it a lot more.
 
Terminate421 said:
I know damn well about that set.

But what if I want to use my own methods?

I run Trick Room as one of my main team strategies and my Empoleon has several different varieties of specs he can be using. Remember, this isn't just what YOU'D want on my team. Honestly, the Empoleon I'm running focuses on an offensive presence, assault vest lets him take those hits better.

This doesn't mean I don't use the defensive method either.

I know you can breed aqua ring onto him via milotic, think teamed up with leftovers he could set up effective recovery?
Click to expand...

Offensive presence is done a lot better by Jellicent in TR IMO. Water Spout really hurts, and it has reliable recovery, and it's just as slow. It can set up Trick Room too.

Also if you want offensive, you should probably use Hydro Pump to make the best of TR. Empoleon also gets really worn down by taking a few hits. Gengar, for example, 2HKOes it after SR. Nice waste of 4 EVs there, too.

Slight nitpick, but for that AV set, the most efficient EV spread is 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD Quiet with a 0 Speed IV.

Aqua Ring is just horrible.
 
I think Empoleon is best run with SR and Defog on the same set as very few Pokemon (Skarmory and Flygon) boast being able to do both. I use Scald/Knock Off/Stealth Rock/Defog and pair Empoleon with Landorus-T who complements Empoleon's weaknesses perfectly (as does Empoleon) forming a pretty nice defensive core (however you must be wary of BoltBeam)
 
Kyreth said:
Scalding them does help in that regard, even if it's not as reliable a way of padding one's defenses as a WoW burn is. It's also notable as being able to carry Knock Off as well, making it an interesting mix of tricks. If you were -really- desperate to surefire debuff, it can have Featherdance bred to it but that'd negate the use of Assault Vest.

Scald/Knock Off/Aqua Jet/(Flash Cannon or Ice Beam) might work well with Assault Vest.
Click to expand...

Good point... Indeed, the last move would just revolve around what other support its team provides. I'd say Ice Beam because Flash Cannon would be of use against fairies if it weren't because most of them would still probably take it pretty well given their high special defense (thinking of Sylveon and Florges). Maybe even Steel Wing could come in handy in that case (call me crazy, but I see it as perhaps stronger against them).
 
subfer1 said:
Good point... Indeed, the last move would just revolve around what other support its team provides. I'd say Ice Beam because Flash Cannon would be of use against fairies if it weren't because most of them would still probably take it pretty well given their high special defense (thinking of Sylveon and Florges). Maybe even Steel Wing could come in handy in that case (call me crazy, but I see it as perhaps stronger against them).
Click to expand...

Flash Cannon depending on your team could simply be for Azumarill and neutral hits but thats fair enough
 
Empoleon fortunately is a good pairing for most Dragon/Flying types. Empoleon 4x resists Ice and resists Rock, Fairy and Dragon. Dragonite and Salamence are immune to Earthquake and resist Fighting types while being neutral to Electric, but Dragon/Ground types are immune to those. Empoleon can also Defog the rocks away for Dragonite to preserve Multiscale and use Yawn to help him or Salamence get turns to Dragon Dance.
 
I use this set:
Empoleon @ Blue Air Balloon
252HP/252SpD/4SpA
Sassy(for a really slow Defog, you want to go after they set up hazards)
0 speed IVs
-Defog
-Scald
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
The air balloon is for free switch ins against EQs so you can Defog hazards/scald and possible burn whatever is in. it also helps you avoid spikes, which i think is good for a defogger. Stealth Rock is there to, well, have SR on my team. Roar is there to prevent you from being absolute set-up bait, as i prefer Roar over yawn as yawn is ineffective against resttalkers like mega gyrados and the like. The EVs are maximize Special bulk, and the -speed and sassy are to give you as slow of a defog as possible, as if you are against a hazard setter you cannot muscle past with scald, you want the hazards off the field for the switch in.
 
For doubles I've been pairing him with Mega-Gardevoir and found some success in spreading burns, and then being major special walls with her. (She heals him and herself while he provides most of the damage.)
 
This my favorite set on empoleon (offensively)

Empoleon @Petaya Berry
252 sp.atk/252hp/4def
Modest
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam

For having such a great sp. atk Empoleon gets no moves like C-Mind,N-Plot, Ect. Secondly Empoleon gets no recovery moves other than rest & aqua ring so iv'e put together a set That lets you get a sp.atk boost AND Recovery. The strategy behind this is that after taking a few hits empoleon gets the boost. When you know your in range within a next attack of getting the boost you can then use rest and sleep talk away! Although sleep talk chooses by random you still have a 66.6% chance of getting a damaging move. Whats also great about this is with 252 HP and average defenses Empoleon can take neutral/not very effective hits very well! So all in all iv'e had great success with this set-up for Empoleon!
 
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