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OC Elden Ring Mafia Game Thread D9 Deadline 30/08/24 @ 10pm GMT+1
- Thread starter Duskfall98
- Start date
Posted this on discord but I'll also post this here.
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I agree pulsar's claim is weird. Getting just a 1x cop is...suspicious af. That said, her willingness to seemingly give up her own alias does seem towny. There's a chance it could be a play with an NPC but overall it seems good enough to take a risk early game. Worse case, I guess she's confirmed mafia and gets a power up? But then we have confirmed mafia so
On the flipside, Laurel claimed:
Which if true, could clear them and then Laurel could lead. But for mysterious reasons they are refusing to provide their alias. They've kind of set themselves up to fail in that regard because the way to clear Laurel would be to vote them out, then even said so themself.
But with Laurel now backing out completely without explanation. There is 0 reason to trust them. With backing out, they've made themself seem like mafia who put out a fakeclaim to bait info and are now backing out of a deal they put themself in.
Basically with laurel backing out a this, after claiming they could lead town past death. It is safest to assume they are mafia who made a gambit to get information.
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I agree pulsar's claim is weird. Getting just a 1x cop is...suspicious af. That said, her willingness to seemingly give up her own alias does seem towny. There's a chance it could be a play with an NPC but overall it seems good enough to take a risk early game. Worse case, I guess she's confirmed mafia and gets a power up? But then we have confirmed mafia so
Which if true, could clear them and then Laurel could lead. But for mysterious reasons they are refusing to provide their alias. They've kind of set themselves up to fail in that regard because the way to clear Laurel would be to vote them out, then even said so themself.
But with Laurel now backing out completely without explanation. There is 0 reason to trust them. With backing out, they've made themself seem like mafia who put out a fakeclaim to bait info and are now backing out of a deal they put themself in.
Basically with laurel backing out a this, after claiming they could lead town past death. It is safest to assume they are mafia who made a gambit to get information.
Last edited:
Vote Fudge
Given the Laurel thing... I claim Tarnished. Might as well make sure everyone knows.
Given the Laurel thing... I claim Tarnished. Might as well make sure everyone knows.
NAH, U JUST QUOTED ME WITH NOTHING
(forgot to click but was replying to this message)
this message
..., ok reply quoting doesn't work but to dkkoba's message
That was intentional
so i came back to celever unable to keep my name out of his mouth AND dragging exene through the mud.
let me be very clear about my concerns regarding the tarnished:
"2.a. Tarnished: As a Tarnished, you may participate in the Tarnished vote during the day phase by voting privately to the host. Each day phase, the Tarnished vote will run alongside the main vote in private. The person who receives most Tarnished votes at day end will take damage along with the main day vote.
When only one Tarnished (excluding npcs) is left standing, they will be crowned as the Elden Lord. An announcement “An Elden Lord has been crowned” will be made. At this point, the Tarnished vote will cease and The Elden Lord will instead receive an infinite vig they may use during the day OR night. If used during the day, it will still resolve at day end."
there are X number of tarnished. they all vote. whoever has the most vote takes damage.
there are two possible starting worlds for what mafia know about the tarnished numbers:
1. mafia begin knowing how many tarnished there are total. they know at what point they will have majority. laurel claimed in chat that he thinks the mafia begin with 2/3 tarnished, which means they begin with majority and can disregard whatever 'consensus' vote is agreed upon.
2. mafia do not know the starting numbers and are unaware of how many tarnished total there are. this becomes very important for them to know, so they know the exact point at which they hold majority over the vote.
in the latter world, it behooves mafia to begin organizing the tarnished so they can discover exactly how many there are.
there are five possible starting worlds for tarnished numbers:
1. all tarnished are town. this seems unlikely because role types would appear to be distributed between both teams based on my reading of the op, but it would make some sense if tarnished vote is supposed to be a street justice-type dayvig for weak town roles.
2. all tarnished are mafia. this seems extremely unlikely because it essentially gives mafia a second kill via the vote.
3. tarnished begin with a 50/50 split. possible, but gives mafia a clear edge because they can control the vote after one town dies.
4. tarnished begin with mafia majority, as laurel suggested. seems weird to me because again, it's just a second kill for mafia.
5. tarnished begin with town majority - the most likely world we are in.
i would suggest that we actually DO NOT want tarnished to organize together like the millers did in mm3 - the fact that bass, the wolf, was the one organizing them aside. since there is only one world where all tarnished are town, in any other situation, this group chat of tarnished would have mafia in it, and would expose the town tarnished's smogon identifies to the mafia.
we do not know what smogon:alias roles mafia have. i will be disappointed in tommy if he put any in, because smogon:alias roles on the mafia are a cheap means of destroying village leadership in an alias game.
we also do not know what info-finding roles mafia have. if they have a role name finder, they can match your alias to your claimed role name. if you have claimed tarnished AND role name to someone, and their role name checker targets your alias, they will instantly know you are tarnished, and will prioritize killing you.
in any world in which the mafia does not currently hold majority over the tarnished, the tarnished are probably their priority class to kill. great enemy have npc info - not a priority. ensuring that a mafia will be the elden lord and gain access to the vig - huge. IF all tarnished mafia are wiped, then this switches and town tarnished become the lowest priority for them to kill, so they never activate the vig. conversely, IF all tarnished town are wiped, town would want to avoid targeting mafia tarnished for the same reason.
if we put all tarnished in a group chat, it is more likely town info could slip, since there are guaranteed mafia in that chat. i don't think centralizing tarnished is actually the correct play here, until town tarnished are able to be cleaned. then they can form a chat together.
now, let's go over what celever has claimed he wants to do:
1. decentralize info and avoid a leader
2. make tarnished votes 'honest' and hold them accountable by having a name to each vote placed
3. make the process democratic
let's go over the problems here.
with 1:
when questioned, celever said the tarnished are NOT in a group chat and are speaking to celever or hydro independently. their vote opinions will be relayed through celever or hydro, to other tarnished, so they remain anonymous. this is LITERALLY centralizing the information. celever and hydro, by keeping tarnished discussions in private, are forcing the vote suggestions to go through them. they can easily tell tarnished 1, 2, and 3 that 4, 5, and 6 want to vote one alias, when 4, 5, and 6 did not say that. hydro is willing to post anonymous summaries which can presumably be matched to each claim.
with 2:
the votes are anonymous. what is stopping the tarnished mafia from voting a town alias, hoping the vote goes over, and then lying and saying they voted the alias celever/hydro told them anyway? heck, if celever and/or hydro are mafia, doesn't that make it even easier for tarnished mafia to sneak a majority here? this whole "celever and hydro are told who each tarnished vote" does not actually make the mafia vote as they claim, it only lets them say "no i totally voted the alias we were supposed to!" because they know what it was supposed to be.
with 3:
see 1, but also, since all vote suggestions have to be shuttled through celever and hydro, is this really democratic? why is the rest of town excluded from this process? the town tarnished are not a separate entity from the rest of town, we should all be working together to pick the best targets. it's bizarre to me that celever treats the tarnished as if they are different from town.
celever has claimed that he does not have all tarnished claims at this time. he also claims that the tarnished have "rnged their vote' already. as far as i can tell this chosen alias has not yet been publicized, and there are several people claiming tarnished who did not claim to celever/hydro, were not informed in this decision, and do not know what the chosen alias is.
please tell me how the tarnished are "more involved in their democratic decision" by celever and hydro randing something in secret than they would be if we publicly discussed as with my method? it is probably a net negative for town to tarnished to organize into a group because then mafia are allowed in. so anyone who does not want to play by celever and hydro's rules is now excluded.
very decentralized!
exene reports that he was told there is a "tarnished server" being made, but he can only be given access if he gives celever and hydro his rolename. so you are gatekeeping the tarnished discussion area behind whether or not people give you two, two uncleaned people whose town status has NOT been verified, information or not?
and then celever has the nerve to go on a rant about exene in pubchat because exene did not want to give him this info.
please tell me where the very democratic, decentralized process is, because i am NOT seeing it with celever's actions. he is forcing tarnished discussion to pass through him and hydro under the guise of anonymity, which i agree is important at this juncture. i do NOT think tarnished should keep pubclaiming, i do NOT think they should out themselves, i do NOT think a tarnished group chat that puts the mafia in and lets them gauge the numbers accurately is a good idea.
there are at least two tarnished who were excluded from celever and hydro's rand vote and did not have a say in this process, and will continue to be excluded unless they give up info to celever and hydro. again, how is this decentralized?
celever has been trashing my name for hours today and claiming this is me having an ego problem. no, celever, it's really not. i am happy to let anyone lead IF they are cleaned. YOU are not cleaned. hydro is not cleaned. laurel is not cleaned. none of you have done anything to warrant getting information and ESPECIALLY not to gatekeep the tarnished from being able to discuss their own vote, because they will not give you info for free.
please note that by going with my methods, or even anyone else's suggestion, celever directly has LESS control and access to tarnished info. he is saying that i have an ego problem and don't want other people to do things but HE is the one whose power is disadvantaged directly by following my idea and not his own. HE stands to lose his ability to shuffle a fraudulent alias suggestion between anon tarnished. i do not.
there is, however, a weird lie going on between celever and exene:
Celever — Today at 6:53 PM
For the record we’ve already RNGed our D1 vote. We asked tarnished to confirm it’s not their alias before going public with it. Exene confirmed it’s not him. Shortly later he posts hat he’s tarnished and that people should contact him in this chat.
Presumably the alias we randed is his partner lol.
vs
Yeti — Today at 8:07 PM
what is the alias they randed
Exene — Today at 8:08 PM
Celever keeps saying you're in my pocket and keep telling me what to say and do. I'm positive you're the "partner" he refers to
But idk the exact alias, they didn't tell me ofc. But they might the one they randed is yours
Yeti — Today at 8:09 PM
wait you are tarnished but they didnt tell you what alias tarnished are voting?
Exene — Today at 8:09 PM
No
how can exene have 'gone public to protect his partner' if he doesn't know the alias? one of them is lying.
when exene asked for tarnished because he felt uneasy about celever's control celever instantly started attacking him, along with laurel, accusing him of sheeping me, being in my pocket or me in his (being in a pocket implies not scum together but apparently exene is mafia and protecting his teammate's alias lol)
Celever — Today at 6:17 PM
Yeah it’s my view not ours
Should be clear on it
I think it’s possible Laurel’s right and Exene is town who for some reason just listens to Yeti without thinking
why are you attacking a new player? maybe you and i are both town and exene is mafia and he's buddying up to me. good for him. well played. maybe he's town and is looking for someone to guide him because people like you make him uncomfortable, demanding info out of him so he can sit at the Big Tarnished Table and participate.
if you're mafia and know exene is town this is really low from a mod. you can run your mouth at me because i'm a big girl and can sling it back but don't flame a newer dude because you're ego clashing with me.
let me be very clear about my concerns regarding the tarnished:
"2.a. Tarnished: As a Tarnished, you may participate in the Tarnished vote during the day phase by voting privately to the host. Each day phase, the Tarnished vote will run alongside the main vote in private. The person who receives most Tarnished votes at day end will take damage along with the main day vote.
When only one Tarnished (excluding npcs) is left standing, they will be crowned as the Elden Lord. An announcement “An Elden Lord has been crowned” will be made. At this point, the Tarnished vote will cease and The Elden Lord will instead receive an infinite vig they may use during the day OR night. If used during the day, it will still resolve at day end."
there are X number of tarnished. they all vote. whoever has the most vote takes damage.
there are two possible starting worlds for what mafia know about the tarnished numbers:
1. mafia begin knowing how many tarnished there are total. they know at what point they will have majority. laurel claimed in chat that he thinks the mafia begin with 2/3 tarnished, which means they begin with majority and can disregard whatever 'consensus' vote is agreed upon.
2. mafia do not know the starting numbers and are unaware of how many tarnished total there are. this becomes very important for them to know, so they know the exact point at which they hold majority over the vote.
in the latter world, it behooves mafia to begin organizing the tarnished so they can discover exactly how many there are.
there are five possible starting worlds for tarnished numbers:
1. all tarnished are town. this seems unlikely because role types would appear to be distributed between both teams based on my reading of the op, but it would make some sense if tarnished vote is supposed to be a street justice-type dayvig for weak town roles.
2. all tarnished are mafia. this seems extremely unlikely because it essentially gives mafia a second kill via the vote.
3. tarnished begin with a 50/50 split. possible, but gives mafia a clear edge because they can control the vote after one town dies.
4. tarnished begin with mafia majority, as laurel suggested. seems weird to me because again, it's just a second kill for mafia.
5. tarnished begin with town majority - the most likely world we are in.
i would suggest that we actually DO NOT want tarnished to organize together like the millers did in mm3 - the fact that bass, the wolf, was the one organizing them aside. since there is only one world where all tarnished are town, in any other situation, this group chat of tarnished would have mafia in it, and would expose the town tarnished's smogon identifies to the mafia.
we do not know what smogon:alias roles mafia have. i will be disappointed in tommy if he put any in, because smogon:alias roles on the mafia are a cheap means of destroying village leadership in an alias game.
we also do not know what info-finding roles mafia have. if they have a role name finder, they can match your alias to your claimed role name. if you have claimed tarnished AND role name to someone, and their role name checker targets your alias, they will instantly know you are tarnished, and will prioritize killing you.
in any world in which the mafia does not currently hold majority over the tarnished, the tarnished are probably their priority class to kill. great enemy have npc info - not a priority. ensuring that a mafia will be the elden lord and gain access to the vig - huge. IF all tarnished mafia are wiped, then this switches and town tarnished become the lowest priority for them to kill, so they never activate the vig. conversely, IF all tarnished town are wiped, town would want to avoid targeting mafia tarnished for the same reason.
if we put all tarnished in a group chat, it is more likely town info could slip, since there are guaranteed mafia in that chat. i don't think centralizing tarnished is actually the correct play here, until town tarnished are able to be cleaned. then they can form a chat together.
now, let's go over what celever has claimed he wants to do:
1. decentralize info and avoid a leader
2. make tarnished votes 'honest' and hold them accountable by having a name to each vote placed
3. make the process democratic
let's go over the problems here.
with 1:
when questioned, celever said the tarnished are NOT in a group chat and are speaking to celever or hydro independently. their vote opinions will be relayed through celever or hydro, to other tarnished, so they remain anonymous. this is LITERALLY centralizing the information. celever and hydro, by keeping tarnished discussions in private, are forcing the vote suggestions to go through them. they can easily tell tarnished 1, 2, and 3 that 4, 5, and 6 want to vote one alias, when 4, 5, and 6 did not say that. hydro is willing to post anonymous summaries which can presumably be matched to each claim.
with 2:
the votes are anonymous. what is stopping the tarnished mafia from voting a town alias, hoping the vote goes over, and then lying and saying they voted the alias celever/hydro told them anyway? heck, if celever and/or hydro are mafia, doesn't that make it even easier for tarnished mafia to sneak a majority here? this whole "celever and hydro are told who each tarnished vote" does not actually make the mafia vote as they claim, it only lets them say "no i totally voted the alias we were supposed to!" because they know what it was supposed to be.
with 3:
see 1, but also, since all vote suggestions have to be shuttled through celever and hydro, is this really democratic? why is the rest of town excluded from this process? the town tarnished are not a separate entity from the rest of town, we should all be working together to pick the best targets. it's bizarre to me that celever treats the tarnished as if they are different from town.
celever has claimed that he does not have all tarnished claims at this time. he also claims that the tarnished have "rnged their vote' already. as far as i can tell this chosen alias has not yet been publicized, and there are several people claiming tarnished who did not claim to celever/hydro, were not informed in this decision, and do not know what the chosen alias is.
please tell me how the tarnished are "more involved in their democratic decision" by celever and hydro randing something in secret than they would be if we publicly discussed as with my method? it is probably a net negative for town to tarnished to organize into a group because then mafia are allowed in. so anyone who does not want to play by celever and hydro's rules is now excluded.
very decentralized!
exene reports that he was told there is a "tarnished server" being made, but he can only be given access if he gives celever and hydro his rolename. so you are gatekeeping the tarnished discussion area behind whether or not people give you two, two uncleaned people whose town status has NOT been verified, information or not?
and then celever has the nerve to go on a rant about exene in pubchat because exene did not want to give him this info.
please tell me where the very democratic, decentralized process is, because i am NOT seeing it with celever's actions. he is forcing tarnished discussion to pass through him and hydro under the guise of anonymity, which i agree is important at this juncture. i do NOT think tarnished should keep pubclaiming, i do NOT think they should out themselves, i do NOT think a tarnished group chat that puts the mafia in and lets them gauge the numbers accurately is a good idea.
there are at least two tarnished who were excluded from celever and hydro's rand vote and did not have a say in this process, and will continue to be excluded unless they give up info to celever and hydro. again, how is this decentralized?
celever has been trashing my name for hours today and claiming this is me having an ego problem. no, celever, it's really not. i am happy to let anyone lead IF they are cleaned. YOU are not cleaned. hydro is not cleaned. laurel is not cleaned. none of you have done anything to warrant getting information and ESPECIALLY not to gatekeep the tarnished from being able to discuss their own vote, because they will not give you info for free.
please note that by going with my methods, or even anyone else's suggestion, celever directly has LESS control and access to tarnished info. he is saying that i have an ego problem and don't want other people to do things but HE is the one whose power is disadvantaged directly by following my idea and not his own. HE stands to lose his ability to shuffle a fraudulent alias suggestion between anon tarnished. i do not.
there is, however, a weird lie going on between celever and exene:
Celever — Today at 6:53 PM
For the record we’ve already RNGed our D1 vote. We asked tarnished to confirm it’s not their alias before going public with it. Exene confirmed it’s not him. Shortly later he posts hat he’s tarnished and that people should contact him in this chat.
Presumably the alias we randed is his partner lol.
vs
Yeti — Today at 8:07 PM
what is the alias they randed
Exene — Today at 8:08 PM
Celever keeps saying you're in my pocket and keep telling me what to say and do. I'm positive you're the "partner" he refers to
But idk the exact alias, they didn't tell me ofc. But they might the one they randed is yours
Yeti — Today at 8:09 PM
wait you are tarnished but they didnt tell you what alias tarnished are voting?
Exene — Today at 8:09 PM
No
how can exene have 'gone public to protect his partner' if he doesn't know the alias? one of them is lying.
when exene asked for tarnished because he felt uneasy about celever's control celever instantly started attacking him, along with laurel, accusing him of sheeping me, being in my pocket or me in his (being in a pocket implies not scum together but apparently exene is mafia and protecting his teammate's alias lol)
Celever — Today at 6:17 PM
Yeah it’s my view not ours
Should be clear on it
I think it’s possible Laurel’s right and Exene is town who for some reason just listens to Yeti without thinking
why are you attacking a new player? maybe you and i are both town and exene is mafia and he's buddying up to me. good for him. well played. maybe he's town and is looking for someone to guide him because people like you make him uncomfortable, demanding info out of him so he can sit at the Big Tarnished Table and participate.
if you're mafia and know exene is town this is really low from a mod. you can run your mouth at me because i'm a big girl and can sling it back but don't flame a newer dude because you're ego clashing with me.
Tapping the sign
tl;dr
celever reacts poorly to efforts to remove his power over tarnished vote despite claiming he wants to decentralize the vote
celever says exene knew the rng vote alias and overreacted to it, exene says celever refused to tell him & won't let him be involved if he doesn't give role name
celever reacts poorly to efforts to remove his power over tarnished vote despite claiming he wants to decentralize the vote
celever says exene knew the rng vote alias and overreacted to it, exene says celever refused to tell him & won't let him be involved if he doesn't give role name
want a break from the cringe?
looking for ways to organize a tarnished vote without outing any info to suspicious individuals?
I recommend this strawpoll!
i made it in 5 minutes, you can change your vote on it, and i will have no idea whose vote is whose!
https://strawpoll.com/3RnYXlOd9ye
Why the fuck would anybody contact you for anything? You have lost literally all credibility that you had when you backpedaled about being voted today to prove your role.
Shut the fuck up, sit down, and wait for pulsar to flip so we can claim to a real village leader.
Vote Fudge
this is extremely stupid and possibly mafia, as theres no way to prove any of the votes are actually tarnished and not just mafia buddies teaming up to lynch town as ive said on discord