Hey I was just wondering what some of the C rank gang do, like what does p2 do over any of the other fat normal types? Trick room? What does Cradily do over any of the other rock types? Suction Cups + Sand for specially defensive baton pass recipient that can't be phazed? What does Camerupt do in general like I can't think of anything aside from cheese trick room. What does mesprit do? Isn't it the slower than both uxie and azelf while also being frailer and weaker respectively? Is it just for role compression or what?
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Gen 4 DPP OU Viability Rankings: mk. IV
- Thread starter BKC
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it is a utility counter which checks gyarados and dragonite with boltbeam coverage and it traces plenty of great abilities from otehr pokesmon such as levitate from flygon and flash fire from heatran, it can also trace intimidate to help vs gyarados. it can eventually trap magnezone and force a twave on it with teampartner such as brick break scizor which can beat parad magnezone. that is pretty much about it.it can also be a trick room setter for teams with the traits of switching into pokemon like heatran and gengar, to set trick room on them with its okay defensive stats. porygon2 supports teammates such as bronzong, heatran, machamp and other pokemon, for abusing trick room. but trick room isnt its main niche in dpp ou.
is a very niche curse-sweeper with having recovery and it can check water-types such as swampert and suicune due to its great typing.
on the other hand can act under trick room, due to its natural low speed its an effective trick room-abuser. furthermore it has great special attack to profit from under trick room with its stab-options in fire blast and earth power, which makes it difficult to switch into. furthermore it can run hidden power ice to nail latias and moreover flygon.
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P2's entire niche is Trace, which lets it copy Heatran's Flash Fire to hard counter it, Gyarados's Intimidate to check it very nicely, and even Magnezone's Magnet Pull to trap & para it and Flygon's Levitate. It's very nice to pair it with SD Scizor because of this. P2 definitely needs a lot of support but can be a fantastic option solely on that basis.
Baton Pass is banned, so Cradily is primarily a Curse sweeper which utilizes sand and Suction Cups for immense bulk & staying power. Dugtrio's ban nerfed it quite a bit since Breloom can't be reliably trapped anymore.
I wrote a post on Camerupt here, check it out
Mesprit has access to both Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, unique from Uxie and Azelf, so it can soft check DD Gyara and Dnite. It also uniquely has access to Healing Wish, which also distinguishes it from the other two. Mesprit's bulk isn't Uxie level, but it's not as passive with more offensive moves since it's pretty well-rounded stat-wise.
Sorry to be this guy, but this post for the most part couldn't miss the mark more than it did. Porygon2 is never viably setting up Trick Room and Camerupt is never running Earth Power or HP Ice, nor is it an amazing trick room abuser in the first place. It's nice to try to chime in and help out, but it may be better to refrain from posting about metagames that you're not well-versed in to not be misleading. I just saw you edited in the additional info about P2 but the point still stands.
it can also be a trick room setter for teams with the traits of switching into pokemon like heatran and gengar, to set trick room on them with its okay defensive stats. porygon2 supports teammates such as bronzong, heatran, machamp and other pokemon, for abusing trick room. but trick room isnt its main niche in dpp ou.
Are there any other changes that will happen to DPP OU?
An arena trap ban happend some time back, and the general consensus from what I've gathered is that Clef and Jirachi are quite problematic.
Also, what is Jolteon's and Heracross's current use in the OU tier? I haven't found a way to reliably use either
An arena trap ban happend some time back, and the general consensus from what I've gathered is that Clef and Jirachi are quite problematic.
Also, what is Jolteon's and Heracross's current use in the OU tier? I haven't found a way to reliably use either
Jirachi is always annoying regardless of the metagame. The departure of Dugtrio means that the most annoying variant of Jirachi has counters that don't keep looking over their shoulder to see if Dugtrio's shadow is lingering behind the corner. Besides, Jirachi can just live a duggy hit, BS, tect and linch to death and somehow find itself at full later n the game when you're having those dreaded mirror stall games, so yeah Duggy definetly did not make Jirachi alot more maangeable, quite the opposite. Same with Clef. I'd argue that Clefable was far more annoying when paired with Dugtrio, it's become much more tamed now. I like it this way.
Using Hera and Jolteon is probably best to use once you have a firm understanding of the metagame as a whole. Then you can really build around them. If you look into it, Heracross: (This isn't what everyone uses and this is simply based on experience of over 10 years in DPP)
1) RK Frail mons which collapse to Pursuit (once theyre slightly weakened) -> you can see that this a double edged sword since you'd be most likely scarf and the fact is that you're now set up bait. Pairing this with a scarf ghost of your own is great in addition to something which can really deter those mons that can set up on you (think Lucario / Dragonite / Gyarados / ttar isnt as big of a deal since you can RK on the switch back).
2) Stall is stall and using this Pokemon with lures such as Mix Rachi / Mix Gon / Taunt status mons etc. can really dismantle alot of stall builds that get overwhelmed via that route.
3) Act as a soft check to Loom / sleep absorber since you SHOULD be running sleep talk on a choice set ALWAYS. Dont let anyone else tell you otherwise, you're just wasting a really good perk if you aint doing this.
4) You have decent bulk and can switchin to alot more things than other "gimmick" mons.
5) If you want to go with a set up route, just know that it isnt the hardest thing to RKO you, salac sucks since priority is everywhere and weather, additionally players dont even need to bring in their choice scarf Lati or Ghost to RK you so you dont even benefit the team by getting the jump on them later with ttar if you catch my drift.
Also, damn everyone, where the hell is my brother INFERNAPE. Bring the demon back :(
Ahh, thanks for the explanation! People spam the crap of those two mons in low ladder and it's not the easiest thing to handle without running stuff like Infernape or Breloom.
Ahh, will definitely run Pursuit and ScarfTom in my next team!
What about Jolteon?
Man, I tried LO Infernape and it dies even quicker than me seeing Mag in SS OU and predicting the wrong set. Has it fallen off due to Lati in the tier, like some thought it did?
Also, does UTurn work on MixApe?
Saw Clef mentioned, so I thought now's as good a time as any to chime in with some observations.
In the Dugtrio meta, it was pretty unanimously regarded as a top 5 mon in the tier, to my understanding. With its biggest enabler banned, though? I'd almost argue it warrants a slight drop in the VR.
It does not fare well against Tar/Tran/Rachi, still hates Breloom, and can't rely on Dug to just remove these mons from the game anymore. It has an abysmal winrate in SPL atm at 25% (with 16% usage); in numerous matches we're able to see successful teams taking a knock off or twave and bludgeoning it to death anyway.
The metagame just isn't as kind to Clef as it was previously, and while it remains a strong choice with an incredible niche, I personally don't think it stands among the elite of the tier anymore.
In the Dugtrio meta, it was pretty unanimously regarded as a top 5 mon in the tier, to my understanding. With its biggest enabler banned, though? I'd almost argue it warrants a slight drop in the VR.
It does not fare well against Tar/Tran/Rachi, still hates Breloom, and can't rely on Dug to just remove these mons from the game anymore. It has an abysmal winrate in SPL atm at 25% (with 16% usage); in numerous matches we're able to see successful teams taking a knock off or twave and bludgeoning it to death anyway.
The metagame just isn't as kind to Clef as it was previously, and while it remains a strong choice with an incredible niche, I personally don't think it stands among the elite of the tier anymore.
Jolteon isn't really used that much is due to Baton Pass being banned. Rotom and Zapdos are just better overall Electrics since the former has actual defensive utility + Wisp while the latter has Roost to keep it healthy throughout the game.
Tbf, the meta has gotten more hostile for it thanks to its numerous issues coming to light. It generally gets worn down really fast throughout games, and unlike Breloom, doesn't have the reliable recovery so it ends up easy to revenge kill. I would say that Latias's addition to the tier wasn't really that big of an issue for Ape, but rather how much usage Dugtrio accumulated prior to its ban. The best set atm is Leftover Ape since it actually gives Infernape some reliable recovery throughout games despite the loss of power.
Since it's Ape's way of predicting a Lati switch, yeah.
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