Pokémon Doublade

Status
Not open for further replies.
Seth Vilo

Seth Vilo

Thanks alexwolf ! Hope this is satisfactory!
doublade.gif
680.png
doublade.gif

steel.gif
Doublade
ghost.gif


Stats: 59 HP / 110 Atk / 150 Def / 45 SpA / 49 SpD / 35 Spe

Ability: No Guard

Notable Moves:
(STAB damage-moves in bold)

Level Up:
Pursuit
Autotomize
Shadow Sneak
Aerial Ace
Iron Defense
Night Slash
Iron Head
Sacred Sword

TM/HM:
Toxic
Brick Break
Reflect
Aerial Ace (again)
Rest
Shadow Claw
Gyro Ball
Swords Dance
Rock Slide
Sleep Talk
Substitute

Egg:
Destiny Bond
Shadow Sneak
​
Aegislash has left OU. Whether that's good or bad is a discussion for another place and thread, but with it's leaving the metagame has already started to change. Stall is more threatened than before with the new found freedom of Megas like Gardevoir, Medicham, and Heracross. Many other Pokemon Aegislash previously threatened have been dropping Aegislash-coverage moves in favor of others, like Heracross and Terrakion dropping Earthquake, and Medicham and friends dropping Fire Punch. What is stall to do with these new massively offensive threats on the rise with Aegislash gone? The sword's little sibling might be an answer that is worth turning to.

Doublade is a much more defensive version of what Aegislash was thanks primarily to its ability to hold Eviolite, which as we know adds a 1.5 boost to both of its defenses. Holding this item, Doublade can have the rough equivalent of 249 Defense and 98 Special Defense if each fully invested, respectively. If not invested in, those pseudo-stats are closer to 234 Defense and 82 Special Defense. With the particularly impressive Defense, Doublade rises to stop many of the shiny new threats to stall and, as Agent Gibbs put it in the Stall thread, "those that do without [super-effective coverage moves] get curbstomped by baby Slash".

It's not all defensive for Doublade, though. With a base 110 Attack stat, Doublade has a definite bite as a defensive wall. Compounded with its low Speed and Gyro Ball and excellent STABS, Doublade can effectively fight back against the things it walls, unlike many stall-oriented Pokemon. This allows Doublade to potentially run more offensive tank sets like Aegislash before it (sans Special moves), or go full defensive.

Not all is wonderful for Doublade, though. Its Special Defense, first of all, is nowhere near the base 150 of Shield Forme Aegislash before it, leaving it severely wounded by many Special Attacks even with the Eviolite boost. Its base HP is also lower than Aegislash by one base point - 59 HP versus 60. Even though it has tools to work with it, Doublade's 35 Speed can hurt it at times, leaving it vulnerable to being hit hard before it can fight back, as well as restricting its only healing option in Rest. Finally, though many previous Aegislash threats might be dropping coverage, Fire and Ground moves are still extremely common. Doublade also greatly fears Knock Off, since that removes its biggest perk in Eviolite, as well as hitting super-effectively.

------
Possible Sets:
(First two sets taken from current UU analysis, found at https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doublade.3507007/ )

Swords Dance Tank
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 236 Atk / 32 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Gyro Ball / Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Using it's 110 Attack, Doublade attempts to use both its great STAB and coverage for breaking through an opposing team, as well as walling many things that are no longer prepared for its typing. Potential set up opportunities are non-Earthquake Terrakion and Mega Heracross, Close Combat Pinsir, non-Fire Punch Mega Medicham, and non-Shadow Ball Gardevoir. Gyro Ball from minimum Speed and (almost) maximum Attack hits like a truck, out-performing Iron Head on any opponent with 215 Speed or more. EVs are to minimize residual damage and avoid a 2HKO from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice, with the rest in Attack.

RestTalk
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 236 Def / 32 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Gyro Ball / Toxic / Iron Head
- Shadow Claw / Sacred Sword

Since Doublade has no recovery, and with the "new" mechanics of Sleep in Gen VI that is far more forgiving, a defensive RestTalk set can be used if your team needs a solid wall instead of an offensive tank. Doublade still packs quite a punch even though there is no Attack investment. Sleep Talk also has the added perk of not using Gyro Ball's precious 8 PP when it selects it as Doublade sleeps. Pick your coverage moves as needed for your team. The EVs are slightly different from the UU analysis, as this allows Doublade to always avoid a 2HKO from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice after Stealth Rock, while still having obscene Defense. The HP is to minimize residual and hazard damage.

(Other, non-UU oriented sets)

Physically Defensive Wall
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 236 Def / 32 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 spe
- Rest
- Gyro Ball / Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak / Shadow Claw

This is a slightly more offensive version of the RestTalk set seen above, and is seemingly the most popular set being discussed in the Post-Aegis and Stall threads. As before, the EVs allow it to avoid a 2HKO from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice, while not being badly hurt by much of anything physical. Since Rest is the only recovery move on this set, and Sleep Talk is not on this set for the sake of coverage, either be prepared to sacrifice turns or pack a cleric. Since this is more oriented for a full Stall team, one of a Chansey, Sylveon, or Unaware Clefable packing Heal Bell are all excellent choices for both healing Sleep and providing Wish support on a switch-in.

This Doublade can also run a more specially defensive spread if that is more needed for your team, much in a similar way to Mega Aggron; with a Defense stat that high, it can be argued that there is less return to your EV and nature investment. For the sake of example, Adamant Excadrill doesn't OHKO Doublade running a spread of 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD and a Sassy nature. Mind you, it does 2HKO every time, but is also 2HKO's 240 HP / 236 Def Relaxed versions 39.8% of the time as well. Meanwhile, a fully Specially Defensive Doublade greatly increases its ability to take on special Fairies and the like. On a stall team, more than one answer to Mega Gardevoir can be a huge blessing, as well as a full stop to non EQ Mega Heracross.

------
Posted Sets

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Shadow Sneak / Pursuit
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball / Iron Head

Jukain said:
i found sd rly underwhelming cuz it can't sweep but i also hate using rest + bell for recovery if i don't have to which i don't with mola...so i ran this. toxic is actually a great move bc people will bring in stuff like char y, char x, keldeo, mandibuzz, slowbro, mola, gyara, etc and give 0 shits about doublade so you can cripple them with a surprise toxic which really helps in dealing with them. other moves are preference, i found sacred sword important coverage and then you want a steel move, gyro hits fast shit hard & ohkoes gard always but iron head hits fable much harder. i like sneak which isnt bad w. adamant a few evs and 110 atk to pick off faster stuff which saved my ass a few times, but trapping latis w. stuff like keldeo and the celebi set my team had is invaluable. plus i imagine you could trap goth which is incredible. i realized you don't need sassy for gard and latis plus i hate using weak defensive crap when i have a mon that can hit p hard, could prob invest attack up another jump point or so (16 is the first atk jump point) but it's not really that important either way.
Click to expand...

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- Rest

Posted by Ajwf in the Stall thread, along with his team and some replays (hence the mention of other teammates in the quoted summary below. It's on page 45 of the thread if you'd like to look (or this URL: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall.3490051/page-45 )
ajwf said:
Rest doublade is nice. Well, you're asleep alot but it becomes hard to kill and must be respected as it sleeps because if it wakes, it can do nasty things. Not sure about sub yet, but it has come in handy to sub up on latis or other resisted hits (which there are TONS of) and the hyper voice users want nothing to do with doublade. It's solid, but it is very much a passive weapon. I'm struggling to work a lot of non-passive entities into this team. Currently, the team is a tad weak to landorus, and weak to heatran. Besides that, I'm currently very satisfied with the lack of things that come in and present a wincon to this variant. Although jpw234 recently broke this team when it ran alomomola... At the time, magma storm tran was a deadly force. Would actually need rhyperior to be at good health to take it.
Click to expand...

Posted EV Alternatives

EVs: 240 HP / 96 Def / 172 SpD
Relaxed Nature

This EV spread allows Doublade to survive two of Mega Heracross' Earthquakes after Stealth Rock, and either attack back or rest off the damage and continue to never die. The remaining EVs are placed into SpD to make it as specially bulky as possible.

EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Brave Nature

See Jukain's set above. This spread is a more offensive version of Doublade, giving it much needed bite to its 110 Attack stat. The slight Attack EV investment reaches a bonus point.

------
So what do you think, Smogon? Now that Aegislash has left us, will its little brother reign? Is it greatly viable, or is it still too niche to use? It it only home in a stall team, or can it find a home on offense or balance as a solid wall (with bite) as well? Discuss away!

(Reminder, this is NOT a place to discuss Aegislash's ban and opinions on it. Some comparisons to defending and walling ability are okay, but do not discuss the ban.)
 
Last edited:
Sadly, I don't see Doublade being viable. The lack of any item other than eviolite really hurts it as it can no longer have a balloon, leftovers, or even weakness policy. Also, it's weaknesses are too prevalent for it to get many chances to deal damage. Lack of King Shield is a finishing blow as well.
 
Nononono no more swords please
Honestly, I can't really see this thing being to useful. I guess it's a decent Physical wall but Skarmory can pull that off better with out this thing having Evolite. And since Knock Off is so common it's hard to use this thing. It's still fun in RU but OU is a stretch.
 
LeftLegofExodia said:
Sadly, I don't see Doublade being viable. The lack of any item other than eviolite really hurts it as it can no longer have a balloon, leftovers, or even weakness policy. Also, it's weaknesses are too prevalent for it to get many chances to deal damage. Lack of King Shield is a finishing blow as well.
Click to expand...

Ohioisonfire said:
Nononono no more swords please
Honestly, I can't really see this thing being to useful. I guess it's a decent Physical wall but Skarmory can pull that off better with out this thing having Evolite. And since Knock Off is so common it's hard to use this thing. It's still fun in RU but OU is a stretch.
Click to expand...

No shit it's not going to be as good as Aegislash lol.

Point is that it has identical typing, and it's actually physically bulkier.... by a lot. And Aegis' ban is helpful for it cause now every other mon won't be running Earthquake anymore.

Skarmory loses horribly to Mega Heracross and Medicham. Chansey loses horribly to most Garde sets. Doublade is niche but it's a good answer to them, which is appreciated cause they're absolutely absurd stall breakers.
 
Doublade doesn't need a Balloon, the things it counters don't have powerful Ground moves, and due to its massive bulk after Eviolite, it can tank a stray Earthquake anyway much better than Aegislash ever could. An Air Balloon is also a bad item for a dedicated wall, since it's a one-time-use item and is easily popped. Lefties isn't a valid argument either because, for example, Chansey is much better than Blissey because the better bulk from Eviolite easily trumps the 6% recovery per turn.

The reason you use Doublade in OU is to counter the leading wallbreakers all at once in just one teamslot; Mega Heracross, Gardevoir and Medicham, and it also counters other important things like Latios, Terrakion and so on. It's a legit mon, and will no doubt see some good use on stall teams in the future since it's basically a great "glue mon" as it patches up common problems that standard stall cores have.
 
I'd just run max spdef to be honest, gets you past a 3hko from Gard's Hyper voice. The nice thing about Doublade is the fact that the meta has reverted so hard out of the aegi ban that now Pinsir, Hera, Medi, Gard and Terrakion, all of which prepared for aegi, don't prepare for doublade. Now, it certainly isn't as effective as it does lack quite a lot of attack but it is spectacular due to the situation the meta sits at.
 
What I've come up with for myself after playing around with calcs is 240 HP / 96 Def / 172 SpD with a Relaxed or Impish nature (depending on if I'm running Gyro Ball, which I'm usually not). That avoids a 2HKO from Mega Hera's Earthquake after Stealth Rock, with the rest poured into SpD to add as much as possible after that benchmark. I've gone over from Gyro Ball to Iron Head though, since a lot of the targets of your Steel moves are slower, like Clefable, Sylveon, and Azumarill.

In my experience, as Ajwf said, everyone has very hard-core dropped their previous Aegis coverage moves. I love it so far, and have been running it on a bulky offense team as a sort of "catch-all" for the post Aegis megas that are nuts, as well as anything physical.
 
Last edited:
With a low speed, lack of King's Shield and Stance Change, reliance on Eviolite and position amongst the prevalence of buffed Dark and Ghost type moves (knock off say what), as well as weaknesses to common types such as the aforementioned Dark and Ghost, Ground and Fire, Doublade isn't having nearly as much fun in OU as his older brother.

Skarm is pretty much always a better option for stall. SC and KS were what made Aegi so scary. I guess Steel/Ghost can pave the way for good type synergy within teams but that isn't really a reason to try and stretch Doublade into OU.

Not saying he's totally unviable but come on - iirc didn't some guy make it to the top of the ladder with a Stunfisk on his team? Doublade can keep trying to abuse the gaps Aegi's departure left in the tier but I expect he'll still be almost always outclassed in some way.
 
A weakness to Dark and a reliance on Eviolite this thing is just asking to get wrecked by knock off. Having your physical wall unable to switch into a knock off is a bit off putting to say the least.
 
Sunodasuto said:
A weakness to Dark and a reliance on Eviolite this thing is just asking to get wrecked by knock off. Having your physical wall unable to switch into a knock off is a bit off putting to say the least.
Click to expand...
I didn't know Gardevoir, Medicham, Terrakion and Latios got Knock Off.... o wait. Hera has it, but it doesn't use it often atm, and Hera doesn't really have counters at all if you take his whole movepool into account. Doublade still holds the title of being pretty much the closest thing to a standard Hera counter, and since he also counters a number of other prominent threats that you'd need another dedicated counter for regardless, countering Mega Heracross becomes a bonus at that point anyway.
 
I actually think it's not that bad, it's hp and speed kinda suck but it's good with an air balloon do to the poison/normal immunity with a ground immunity from the balloon it can cause problems maybe a max hp ev investment will make it good
 
I think the No Guard ability on this Pokemon is pretty funny (in a bad way).

Moves with 80 accuracy or lower: 0
Moves with 85 accuracy: 1 (Metal Sound)
Moves with 90 accuracy: 3 (Toxic, Rock Slide, Swagger)
Moves with 95 accuracy: 2 (Fury Cutter, Cut)
All of his notable moves have 100 accuracy: (Pursuit, Shadow Sneak, Aerial Ace, Night Slash, Iron Head, Sacred Sword)

Some of these are a bit of a stretch, but it would have been cool if Doublade could learn:
Stone Edge (many non-Rock types get it just because they have sharp edges on their body)
Zap Cannon (lots of Steel types get it, though I guess it's not very fitting for the Aegislash series)
Iron Tail (by hardening that fluttering cloth tail of his)
Cross Chop (pretty obvious)
Dual Chop (pretty obvious)
 
Yeah, No Guard is actually a detriment to Doublade since annoying stuff like Hydro Pump will always hit him. That said, most of the things he's used to counter only use 100% accuracy moves themselves anyway, so despite being technically bad, it shouldn't be too much of a deal breaker. If only he got WoW like most other ghosts do...
 
i've actually been using doublade a little bit w. mola and it's pretty fuckin cool. i made a cool semi-stall team with some fun things like magic coat mola and ctc's modest 3 atks recover celebi set to use in on and it performed. it handles hera (even eq ones) gard cham pinsir terrak |nonhp fire latis| aeromega (which has gained a bit of popularity recently) no knock azu. you cant ohko this thing on the physical side and it beats all of the more potent megas after the aegi ban. kinda shit on by mawile tho thats on its way out so there should be no worries then. aegis defensive typing is just so godly, doublade has the same one so it can actually beat a lot of similar things.

here's the set i'm running.

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Shadow Sneak / Pursuit
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball / Iron Head

i found sd rly underwhelming cuz it can't sweep but i also hate using rest + bell for recovery if i don't have to which i don't with mola...so i ran this. toxic is actually a great move bc people will bring in stuff like char y, char x, keldeo, mandibuzz, slowbro, mola, gyara, etc and give 0 shits about doublade so you can cripple them with a surprise toxic which really helps in dealing with them. other moves are preference, i found sacred sword important coverage and then you want a steel move, gyro hits fast shit hard & ohkoes gard always but iron head hits fable much harder. i like sneak which isnt bad w. adamant a few evs and 110 atk to pick off faster stuff which saved my ass a few times, but trapping latis w. stuff like keldeo and the celebi set my team had is invaluable. plus i imagine you could trap goth which is incredible. i realized you don't need sassy for gard and latis plus i hate using weak defensive crap when i have a mon that can hit p hard, could prob invest attack up another jump point or so (16 is the first atk jump point) but it's not really that important either way.
 
jbtc10 said:
I didn't know Gardevoir, Medicham, Terrakion and Latios got Knock Off.... o wait. Hera has it, but it doesn't use it often atm, and Hera doesn't really have counters at all if you take his whole movepool into account. Doublade still holds the title of being pretty much the closest thing to a standard Hera counter, and since he also counters a number of other prominent threats that you'd need another dedicated counter for regardless, countering Mega Heracross becomes a bonus at that point anyway.
Click to expand...
It's good niche to counter such big threats but I don't see Doublade getting much use outside of stall teams. Any neutral special attack will seriously hurt it.
 
wow aegislash is to powerfull and his 2nd evoloution took over not that powerfull but still good eviolite works good and his moves. Doublade i never thought id see him lol
 
What teammates do you think work well with this guy?

I'm feeling potentially Umbreon or Mandibuzz-they both resist Ghost and Dark which is nice, and both have their weaknesses covered by Doublade. Obviously they fulfill different roles-Umbreon being a cleric and Mandibuzz being more of a Defogger/Anti-Physical Booster, hell you could even run both (but that might be too much overlap).

As for Megas, type-wise Doublade and Mega-Heracross go together really, really well. Fire is the only shared weakness and nearly everything else is covered by the other (Mega Heracross is fairly bulky too, so while you don't want to just switch into random shadow balls it's not the end of the world). As do Doublade and Mega-Aerodactyl.
 
Aragorn the King said:
Well, the thing is Doublade beats Gardevoir, Medicham, Heracross, and Pinsir, while Skarmory only beats one of the four. Obviously Doublade isn't as good as Aegislash, but I think it still has a niche on stall as a counter to those four terrifying megas.
Click to expand...

It doesn't beat them, it switches in stopping them from killing something while they then switch out leaving you with a dented mon with no recovery, common weaknesses, and numerous switchins.

Edit: Deoxys are gone, spare me the "Hazards" spin. Also it doesn't beat pinsir that carry EQ still rofl, 2hkoed by +2 EQ while you can't 2hko back.

You literally need pursuit/toxic for this thing to not be useless as shit. It can't even carry its weight in UU where it has LESS switchins and things that destroy it.
 
Last edited:
Nysyr said:
It doesn't beat them, it switches in stopping them from killing something while they then switch out leaving you with a dented mon with no recovery, common weaknesses, and numerous switchins.
Click to expand...

It lacks offensive presence for sure but all four of those megas are quite easily worn down by SR/random attacks they take coming in/sandstorm/status, so just surviving (which Doublade does very well against them, like it is barely scratched by Hera/Medi/Pinsir and not too bad from Gard) is often enough. Plus, it has at least a default amount of pressure available with Toxic. It's not a great mon, but definitely a serviceable one for stall.
 
Doublade chill af. It's like gen 5 gastrodon where it hangs in ou to counter rain but it's like nu actually.

It has an incredible niche that makes it super useful in ou despite its lower tier staus (but ru is the bomb anyway). It's also real strong. Ferro gyro ball hurts a lot. Doublade has like double the attack of ferro. Shadow sneak is fun too.

It's held back by the fact that its only role really is to check things (and taking a reactive approach to teambuilding isnt ideal), but if you are solid except for checkin stuff, then doublade it up. At least it has priority.
 
TURBODERP said:
What teammates do you think work well with this guy?

I'm feeling potentially Umbreon or Mandibuzz-they both resist Ghost and Dark which is nice, and both have their weaknesses covered by Doublade. Obviously they fulfill different roles-Umbreon being a cleric and Mandibuzz being more of a Defogger/Anti-Physical Booster, hell you could even run both (but that might be too much overlap).

As for Megas, type-wise Doublade and Mega-Heracross go together really, really well. Fire is the only shared weakness and nearly everything else is covered by the other (Mega Heracross is fairly bulky too, so while you don't want to just switch into random shadow balls it's not the end of the world). As do Doublade and Mega-Aerodactyl.
Click to expand...
Sylveon is a FANTASTIC teammate for Doublade. It resists Dark, and Doublade ABSOLUTELY requires wish support on defensive teams to perform well all throughout the match. Essentially--Doublade pairs well with any fairy cleric.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top