Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Really late to the party regarding the mighty Hoenn's hopeless ghosts (Dusknoir and Mega Banette), but I'd like to add on to the two posts regarding the mighty Dusknoir and Mega Banette

Adding to that, if you really wanted a ground type spinner, Excadrill would be a better choice than Donphan. It has a better typing and generally better stats. I know Excadrill is more of a sweeper anyway, but the point still stands.

Also, I still keep seeing these, especially in low ladder games:

Don't use either of these:

Why they're bad: Dusclops and Dusknoir look decent at first glance: high defensive stats, an immunity to a common attacking type, only two weaknesses, and able to burn things. However, that's where their good points end. Their other stats, save Dusknoir's attack, are plain awful, especially the HP stats of both, which compromises their large base defensive stats. This might be remedied if they had offensive presence, but they don't. Not even Dusknoir, whose best STAB only has 60 BP, and its coverage moves aren't that great either. They also lack good recovery; by the time they're in low enough health to need Pain Split, they're definitely outsped and likely KO'ed.

Instead, use one of these:

Why they're better: Mega Sableye is easily the best bulky ghost mon in OU right now. Not only does it have good bulk, but arguably a better typing, Calm Mind for something resembling offensive presence, reliable recovery, and Magic Bounce, preventing stuff like Toxic, which flusters most defensive mons that are not immune to poison. If you already have a mega on your team, normal Sableye can also work, thanks to Prankster WoW/Recover/Taunt and access to Knock Off. Lastly, while it isn't exceptional, even Cofagrigus has a niche, with actual offensive presence with NastyRoom as well as Mummy to deter attackers that rely on their abilities.

Edit @ below: You can also use this:

In addition to Sableye, Cofagrigus, and Doublade, you can also use this:

Instead, Use this:

Why it's better:

Gourgeist is another viable bulky Ghost-type that can do far better than Dusclops or Dusknoir ever could. It has more overall bulk because it has far more HP than Dusclops/Dusknoir, and it has Will-O-Wisp as well as Leech Seed to be just as annoying as they are, and more. It also has reliable recovery in Synthesis, making it last far longer than Dusclops or Dusknoir ever can. Gourgeist-Super also has more offensive presence because of Seed Bomb, so it can hit stuff harder and it also hits Keldeo and Tyranitar hard, which is another reason to use it over Dusclops/Dusknoir. If you really want, Gourgeist also has Phantom Force to hit harder and bypass Protect, and can dodge attacks for one turn to be able to further accumulate Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp damage. Leech Seed also gives Gourgeist more longevity than Dusclops/Dusknoir, as it can sap HP from the opponent and constantly give greater recovery each turn.

Don't use this:

Mega Banette on paper seems like a very appealing Pokemon, with a massive attack stat of 165 and Prankster Will-O-Wisp and Destiny Bond. However, it falls flat on its face when in practice. It is pretty frail, has massive 4MSS, has no reliable recovery, and a psychical ghost is almost never good, with Shadow Claw being your only option. Also, Banette doesn't have Prankster before mega evolving, so this can really bite you in the bum when you need an immediate Will-O or Destiny Bond. Plus, there are better options for a Prankster Pokemon.

Instead, use these:

Sableye is a much better option for a Prankster Pokemon, with almost every move Mega Banette gets and more. It has a better typing, reliable recovery, and it has a better mega evolution, giving it more bulk and allowing it to create mindgames with the opponent. Sure, Banette has Destiny Bond and Thunder Wave, but Thundurus is a better T-Wave spammer, and needing to rely on fainting to have some use is pretty bad tbh.

Adding on to this post too, there's another alternative, which, while not a Ghost-type, is a far better option for the main thing to even use Mega Banette for.

Instead, Use This:

Why it's better:

While Mega Glalie is not really that similar to Mega Banette in how it plays, it is a far more rewarding option for a Mega Slot as a suicide Mega. The main reason to even use Mega Banette in the first place is Prankster Destiny Bond to die in order to get a free kill. However, Glalie is a much better for the "die in order to get a kill" Mega Evolution, because it can wallbreak well with Refrigerate Double-Edge and EQ plus fun options like Ice Shard to revenge kill, Super Fang to halve HP, and Freeze-Dry to pester different kinda of Pokemon, in other words putting much more work against a team than Mega Banette before exploding (in other words, letting itself die to get a kill), or succumbing to Double-Edge recoil. Furthermore, unlike Mega Banette, Mega Glalie does not have to deal with mindgames of Prankster Destiny Bond and risk becoming a liability as setup fodder, as Refrigerate Explosion can be clicked and get a free kill for free. As a suicide Mega, Glalie does far better than Mega Banette and is much more worth the Mega Slot as a Pokemon whose main reason to be used is to "kill em and die!".

Just wanted to throw that in there.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Ok, so I think we may have already passed this, but I still think two things need to be clarified.

I. Viable Pokemon
For the most part, refrain from telling people not to use things that have niche uses in OU. For example, "Don't Use Entei ----> Use Victini!" Overall, yes, Victini is a better physically offensive Pokemon than Entei. However, if you're opting to use Entei, it's because of Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed, two things you aren't getting anywhere else. However, it's totally fine if you're telling me not to use a set of a Pokemon viable in OU. For example, Don't Use Offensive Arcanine ----> Use Entei! Arcanine's defensive set is what makes it viable, and it's fine if you want to tell people not to use Life Orb Arcanine.

II. Dissimilar Pokemon *
This thread is supposed to be Apples:Apples (whether it be Pokemon:Pokemon or Role:Role), not Apples:Oranges. For example, yes, Landorus, Mega Sableye, and Reuniclus all can run Calm Mind. However, thanks to their different typings, stats, and abilities, they all function incredibly differently. You can't just take a team with CM Reuniclus, and say "hmm, Sableye > Reuniclus in general", and then say "Don't Use Reuniclus, Use Sableye!" It doesn't work that way. Similarly, n a team, you can't just take Extreme Speed Lucario, replace it with Extreme Speed Dragonite, and call it a day.

To put it in perspective, say I have a full team with Mandibuzz as my Landorus check and defogger, and find the team incredibly Mega Pinsir weak. By replacing Mandibuzz with Zapdos, you retain a Defogger and a Landorus check while gaining a Pinsir check. Thus, the switch is pretty beneficial for your team. This thread is NOT for that. It's more for switching Mega Charizard X as a defogger with either a better defogger or a better Charizard set.

Thanks guys for reading! Btw this past page has been really good so far, and I hope it continues to stay like this.

*This is only applicable to viable Pokemon. This rule is applied a lot looser to non viable Pokemon, like Mega Banette or regular Venusaur.

 

[Froggyboy]

Don't use these:

These two just seem to keep popping up on the ladder, and I seriously don't know why. First let's start with Scrafty. Scrafty at first may seem appealing, with a decent attack stat, high defenses, great abilities, and Dragon Dance. However, Scrafty fails to make much use out of any of this, because of its low speed stat and HP, as well as its typing, leaving it vunerable to a lot of threats in the tier, like Keldeo, Altaria, Lopunny, Clefable, etc. Its speed stat makes it hard to really clean up late game, and its typing fails to let it be a reliable defensive mon. Combined with no reliable recovery and reliance on High Jump Kick to hit hard, it just really isn't worth the hassle.
Now with Machamp, there really isn't anything wrong with it for what it is suppose to do. It has high attack, good Fighting STAB, decent enough bulk, and good abilities. What makes it not worth to use? Conkeldurr.
Conkeldurr is everything Machamp wants to be, besides lower special defense. Higher attack stat, better HP and psychical bulk, and Drain Punch, giving it recovery(albeit, not that reliable). The only reason to use Machamp over Conkeldurr is No Guard Dynamic Punch, which isn't really worth using since you have to rely on hax in order to have a niche.

Instead, use these:

Pangoro is a MUCH better version of Scrafty, lacking Moxie and Intimidate, but having respectable bulk, the ability to hit hard without needing a boost, Parting Shot, and its also good abilities. Scrappy allows it to beat Sableye, Iron Fist boosts its many punches, and Mold Breaker allows it to bypass Pokemon that usually stop set-up sweepers in their tracks, like Quagsire and Clefable, as well as other abilities that affect Pangoro's damage output.
And Conkeldurr, like explained, is just a direct upgrade from Machamp and does everything it can do and better.

 

[InvisibleWater]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT USE THIS:

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Horn Leech / Phantom Force

Why it's bad:
Trevenant looks decent at first glance. It has an excellent support movepool, many forms of recovery, the ability to burn things, and it resists Keldeo's STABs. However, that's where the good things end. 85/79/82 bulk is very bad for a wall, especially one that's weak to Knock Off, and its Deoxys-S level base speed of 56 prevents it from doing anything about it unless it has a Sub up. This woiuldn't be a problem if any of its recovery methods were reliable. Harvest + Sitrus Berry, its best method, and probably the reason why someone would end up using Trevenant in the first place, is a gimmick that will often fail to work unless the opponents switches into Phantom Force, due to its (previously mentioned) low defenses and speed.

Instead, use this:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder

Why it's better:
If you wish to troll the lower ladder with Harvest shenanigans and aren't fighting Heatran every other battle, then go ahead and use Trevenant. But if you're looking for a defensive Grass-type to use on more serious teams, Mega Venusaur is a much better option. It can't hold an item (due to it being a Mega Evolution), but it's much better in almost every other way. It has better bulk, offensive presence (making it a better Keldeo check), reliable recovery, and a better ability in Thick Fat.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Belly Drummers:

Don't use this:

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Return/Aromatherapy
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch

Why it's worse:

1136 attack can OHKO most pokemon in OU metagame and boosted Unburden speed can reach to 534/486 dealing with many scarfers like Land-T, but OU Tier is steel Tier; Scizor and Mega-Metagross resist Drain Punch easily...if Bullet Punch don't kill it. Talonflame revenge-kills easily. Also, a Whirlwind from Skarmory leaves Slurpuff without its boost attack being completely useless piece of pink poo (hehe i said poo)

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 482-570 (157.5 - 186.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 216-254 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 210-248 (68.6 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 267-315 (87.2 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Remember the maximum HP Slurpuff can have is 75%

Oh, and if you will try to use it on next gen's reset, to counter Kangaskhan, don't even try it. Aegislash will rekt it.


Instead use this:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough/SuperPower
- Waterfall/Knock Off

Why is better?:

Better moveset, that can handle pokes who resist and kills Slurpuff like Amoonguss, priority STAB to deal with scarfers things, Dark type resist so can live a SuckerPunch,great defensive type with better bulky stats than him, it's more cute, but the great advantages of Azumarill are: Steel resist (yeah bitch) so fuck Metagross, scizor, Doublade, etc. And the most important thing, Slurpuff +0 does nothing. Azumarill unboosted does stuff. Can revenge kill, learns knock off, then rival can thing it's AV or CB so you may be able to outsmart,etc... Slurpuff it's not bad but Azumarill does the same and better.

Well, except for one thing. Slurpuff can learn Aromatherapy


(...)

P.D: If you see Linoone Belly Drum in low ladder (lel) tell me to post it here.

I have to do some corrections about this post. Slurpuff, at the time he gets the set up, is able to recover HP freely, something that Azumarill can't do. So there's some niche to use slurpuff as some type of bulky Belly drummer? Maybe some Sub Belly Drum set like this?

Slurpuff @ Salac Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough


FUCK NO!

Use this instead:

Chesnaught @ Salac Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb

Why is better: Thanks to the new ORAS movesets Chesnaught no longer loses speed with Hammer Arm to use its main STAB attack. His 88/122/75 bulk stats he gets an easy set up on heavy physical attackers like Land-t or Gyarados, and gain a great 387 speed to outspeed anyone but most of non-scarfed pokes, dealing with stuff like Scarf Tyranitar, Weavile or Adamant Mega-Bunny. He can resist non-flying priority moves easily so most of them are physical like Quick Attack or Mach Punch. I'll leave some examples

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chesnaught: 64-76 (20.1 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chesnaught: 136-162 (42.9 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chesnaught: 72-85 (22.7 - 26.8%) -- 32.5% chance to 4HKO

But the best thing that make Ches a great Belly Drummer is the Sub, so he can set up on will-o-wispers like Rotom-W or Mega-Sableye (evolved ofc) or Sub-Toxic Gliscor. Chesnaught's main sets (bulky leech seed for example) is quite annoying and the opponent will look for a way to toxic or burn to avoid the leech seed recovery and stall. A great opportunity that Slurpuff can't enjoy. Even if the opponent guess you're a belly drummer, Chesnaught's bulk and it's common resistances (Dark, Steel, Ground, etc.) Slurpuff is so squishy and predictable you can only set up safely on Chansey (maybe on some more pokes too i guess).

If you have some question, here is the set discussion (check EVs spread) http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/chesnaught-revamp-qc-0-3.3523167/page-3#post-5969388

Thanks to Aragorn The King for remind me about this set :D

 

[firehusky]

But the best thing that make Ches a great Belly Drummer is the Sub, so he can set up on will-o-wispers like Rotom-H or Mega-Sableye (evolved ofc) or Sub-Toxic Gliscor

Rotom-H can break your subs. I assume you mean rotom-w?

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Rotom-H can break your subs. I assume you mean rotom-w?

Ops, fixed

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT USE THIS:

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Horn Leech / Phantom Force

Why it's bad:
Trevenant looks decent at first glance. It has an excellent support movepool, many forms of recovery, the ability to burn things, and it resists Keldeo's STABs. However, that's where the good things end. 85/79/82 bulk is very bad for a wall, especially one that's weak to Knock Off, and its Deoxys-S level base speed of 56 prevents it from doing anything about it unless it has a Sub up. This woiuldn't be a problem if any of its recovery methods were reliable. Harvest + Sitrus Berry, its best method, and probably the reason why someone would end up using Trevenant in the first place, is a gimmick that will often fail to work unless the opponents switches into Phantom Force, due to its (previously mentioned) low defenses and speed.

Instead, use this:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder

Why it's better:
If you wish to troll the lower ladder with Harvest shenanigans and aren't fighting Heatran every other battle, then go ahead and use Trevenant. But if you're looking for a defensive Grass-type to use on more serious teams, Mega Venusaur is a much better option. It can't hold an item (due to it being a Mega Evolution), but it's much better in almost every other way. It has better bulk, offensive presence (making it a better Keldeo check), reliable recovery, and a better ability in Thick Fat.

Although Trevenant is not viable in OU neither UU, i think M-Venusaur should not be its substitute, he works different from Trev. A closer Pokemon could be Gourgeist-XL (As will-o-wisper and "leech seeder") or Celebi i guess?, who is a good special Wall with grass type

 

[michaeloche]

Guess what I just saw on the suspect ladder?

Don't use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- whatever

Why it's bad: If you want Clefable to never die, buffing its defenses may sound like a good idea, and Charge Beam helps with the special attack. However, you have to dedicate two moveslots to it, which is not an ideal situation, especially considering Clefable gets Calm Mind. Furthermore, Charge Beam is weak, doesn't provide much in the way of coverage, and doesn't even raise your special attack all the time. Many Steel types, particularly Excadrill, wall this set completely, and if it's SD, can set up on it; Scizor and Rock Polish Metagross can do the same thing. And then there's Stored Power. Yes, after 6 Cosmic Powers, it hits a beefy 260 BP, but it's not STAB, poor coverage, has no special attack boosts, and does absolutely nothing to Dark types. And there's no guarantee you'll even get to +6 anyway.

And please, DON'T forgo Moonblast, like the guy I saw did. I was able to set up on him with Mega Sableye (twice, in fact, first time he switched, second time he forfeited).

Instead, use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / other coverage move

Why it's better: If you want to set up with Clefable, Calm Mind is the way to go. With it, you get offense and defense boosts in one move, plus you free up moveslots for coverage and recovery. On the topic of coverage, Flamethrower is the best overall, but some sort of Hidden Power (I suggest Ground or Ghost) can also fit in.

 

[Kurona]

Because it's been coming up in the Serperior thread recently and it actually has like 2.5% usage or something

Don't use this:

16 HP/252 SpA/240 Spd
Why it's bad:
At first this seems like a no-brainer. Serperior holds the unique speed tier of 113 which is matched by no other Pokémon in the entire game. The only (OU-relevant) Pokémon directly under it in terms of base speed are Scolipede at 112 and then Thundurus at 111. ... and, uh, Tornadus I guess. Ignoring Scolipede because few run max speed and it's gonna speed boost with protect anyway and lol going against Scolipede with Serperior; it therefore seems to make sense that you should only want enough speed to match Thundurus, right? This gives you a few extra EVs to place elsewhere so that's nice. Well... no. Here's the problem. This gives you 3 extra stat points in HP, Defence and Special Defence. And I can absolutely guarantee you that those three extra little points will never, ever let you survive anything you couldn't without them. They're completely inconsequential. But hey, it's alright, because nothing's outspeeding me that couldn't if I did have those 3 extra speed points, right? Wrong again. You are now outpaced by other Serperior running 252 Speed, and even those with HP Fire that takes away one of their Speed IVs. And again, I can guarantee you that trying to speed tie other Serperior - or even outspeed should they be running HP Fire and you're not - that while situational, will come into play far more than three special defence points will.

Use this instead:

4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Why it's better:
... basically everything I said above.
Oh and come to think of it it's probably better to dump the remaining 4 EVs in special defence to fuck over Porygon2

 

[Karxrida]

Because it's been coming up in the Serperior thread recently and it actually has like 2.5% usage or something

Don't use this:

16 HP/252 SpA/240 Spd
Why it's bad:
At first this seems like a no-brainer. Serperior holds the unique speed tier of 113 which is matched by no other Pokémon in the entire game. The only (OU-relevant) Pokémon directly under it in terms of base speed are Scolipede at 112 and then Thundurus at 111. ... and, uh, Tornadus I guess. Ignoring Scolipede because few run max speed and it's gonna speed boost with protect anyway and lol going against Scolipede with Serperior; it therefore seems to make sense that you should only want enough speed to match Thundurus, right? This gives you a few extra EVs to place elsewhere so that's nice. Well... no. Here's the problem. This gives you 3 extra stat points in HP, Defence and Special Defence. And I can absolutely guarantee you that those three extra little points will never, ever let you survive anything you couldn't without them. They're completely inconsequential. But hey, it's alright, because nothing's outspeeding me that couldn't if I did have those 3 extra speed points, right? Wrong again. You are now outpaced by other Serperior running 252 Speed, and even those with HP Fire that takes away one of their Speed IVs. And again, I can guarantee you that trying to speed tie other Serperior - or even outspeed should they be running HP Fire and you're not - that while situational, will come into play far more than three special defence points will.

Use this instead:

4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Why it's better:
... basically everything I said above.
Oh and come to think of it it's probably better to dump the remaining 4 EVs in special defence to fuck over Porygon2

Unless you're running an item that's not Life Orb, don't dump that 4 into HP. With 0 investment and an HP IV of 29 you get a Life Orb number, and any investment will ruin that.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Guess what I just saw on the suspect ladder?

Don't use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- whatever

Why it's bad: If you want Clefable to never die, buffing its defenses may sound like a good idea, and Charge Beam helps with the special attack. However, you have to dedicate two moveslots to it, which is not an ideal situation, especially considering Clefable gets Calm Mind. Furthermore, Charge Beam is weak, doesn't provide much in the way of coverage, and doesn't even raise your special attack all the time. Many Steel types, particularly Excadrill, wall this set completely, and if it's SD, can set up on it; Scizor and Rock Polish Metagross can do the same thing. And then there's Stored Power. Yes, after 6 Cosmic Powers, it hits a beefy 260 BP, but it's not STAB, poor coverage, has no special attack boosts, and does absolutely nothing to Dark types. And there's no guarantee you'll even get to +6 anyway.

And please, DON'T forgo Moonblast, like the guy I saw did. I was able to set up on him with Mega Sableye (twice, in fact, first time he switched, second time he forfeited).

Instead, use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / other coverage move

Why it's better: If you want to set up with Clefable, Calm Mind is the way to go. With it, you get offense and defense boosts in one move, plus you free up moveslots for coverage and recovery. On the topic of coverage, Flamethrower is the best overall, but some sort of Hidden Power (I suggest Ground or Ghost) can also fit in.

You saw this set because it's actually a common set. Was used on X/Y. It may not be used anymore cuz Mega-Metagross and Sableye's meta but it was used a lot.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/clefable.3490223/

 

[AM]

You saw this set because it's actually a common set. Was used on X/Y. It may not be used anymore cuz Mega-Metagross and Sableye's meta but it was used a lot.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/clefable.3490223/

It's not a good set and all those pokemon threads are mostly outdated so I wouldn't be getting your information from the OP of those threads. The point is, that common doesn't always mean good.

 

[pika pal]

You saw this set because it's actually a common set. Was used on X/Y. It may not be used anymore cuz Mega-Metagross and Sableye's meta but it was used a lot.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/clefable.3490223/

The point of this thread is to address sets that are not good and have better alternatives. If that set is common despite its mediocrity, then the post needed to be made all the more.

 

[havokchomp123]

Haven't seen a post here in a while, well that's about to change...

Mienshao Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator/Reckless
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
Nature: Jolly
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Knock off
-Fake Out/Poison Jab

Here's the thing with Mienshao. In the X/Y days it was a viable and good choice for a fast physical attacker. Sure it did face some stiff competition from Terrakion, the prevelance of talonflame was a problem, and the new fairy type didn't do it any favors, but Knock off's buff, U-turn, reckless high jump kick, and a decent special attack to use HP ice gave it enough of a niche to have viability in the OU tier. But then everything changed when the Lopunny nation attacked.

Mega Lopunny @Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EV's 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-High Jump Kick
-Return
-Fake Out
-Substitute/Power up Punch

Granted, Mienshao still retains it's niche of u-turn, reckless High jump kick hits harder than Lopunny's, and it doesn't take up a mega slot, but all of these niches aren't enough to save mienshao from being outclassed by Mega Lopunny. It also should be noted that Meinshao is completely walled by Mega Sableye who Mega Lopunny is able to get past thanks to scrappy. But overall Lopunny has more going for it than Mienshao. Lopunny has higher attack and speed, Elemental punches, Scrappy, Secondary stab, Better Bulk, and (barring shedninja) perfect coverage in it's STAB moves. Sorry mienshao maybe next gen you can get an awesome mega and get access to power whip (seriously it's arms are whips it should get it).

 

[jzplr]

Mega Lopunny @Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EV's 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-High Jump Kick
-Return
-Fake Out
-Substitute/Power up Punch

Wait Adamant and Power Up Punch Lopunny is a thing?

 

[Der Twist]

I know Sub-PuP Mega Lop is a thing. Not all that sure about just Sub or just PuP Lop though. And Jolly is generally preferred for any set.

 

[Karxrida]

Haven't seen a post here in a while, well that's about to change...

Mienshao Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator/Reckless
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
Nature: Jolly
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Knock off
-Fake Out/Poison Jab

Here's the thing with Mienshao. In the X/Y days it was a viable and good choice for a fast physical attacker. Sure it did face some stiff competition from Terrakion, the prevelance of talonflame was a problem, and the new fairy type didn't do it any favors, but Knock off's buff, U-turn, reckless high jump kick, and a decent special attack to use HP ice gave it enough of a niche to have viability in the OU tier. But then everything changed when the Lopunny nation attacked.

Mega Lopunny @Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EV's 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-High Jump Kick
-Return
-Fake Out
-Substitute/Power up Punch

Granted, Mienshao still retains it's niche of u-turn, reckless High jump kick hits harder than Lopunny's, and it doesn't take up a mega slot, but all of these niches aren't enough to save mienshao from being outclassed by Mega Lopunny. It also should be noted that Meinshao is completely walled by Mega Sableye who Mega Lopunny is able to get past thanks to scrappy. But overall Lopunny has more going for it than Mienshao. Lopunny has higher attack and speed, Elemental punches, Scrappy, Secondary stab, Better Bulk, and (barring shedninja) perfect coverage in it's STAB moves. Sorry mienshao maybe next gen you can get an awesome mega and get access to power whip (seriously it's arms are whips it should get it).

Mienshao is actually considered viable. It hits slightly harder than Lopunny with LO and/or Reckless, has access to Knock Off, and makes a passable Scarfer.

 

[havokchomp123]

Wait Adamant and Power Up Punch Lopunny is a thing?

I dunno the point was that there really isn't much reason to use Mienshao over Mega Lopunny not the set itself.
And Karxrida it isn't considered Viable otherwise it's OU analysis wouldn't have been taken down. Knock off doesn't really matter when Mega Lopunny has perfect coverage to begin with, Mienshao is walled hard by Mega sableye, and Mega Lopunny has better stats than Mienshao. Granted, Mienshao has merit, that's true all pokemon do. I gonna put Mienshao in the same boat as something like forretress. Both of these pokemon have merit to them, but in the end they just aren't worth being used over the surperior options in OU.

 

[Kurona]

I dunno the point was that there really isn't much reason to use Mienshao over Mega Lopunny not the set itself.
And Karxrida it isn't considered Viable otherwise it's OU analysis wouldn't have been taken down. Knock off doesn't really matter when Mega Lopunny has perfect coverage to begin with, Mienshao is walled hard by Mega sableye, and Mega Lopunny has better stats than Mienshao. Granted, Mienshao has merit, that's true all pokemon do. I gonna put Mienshao in the same boat as something like forretress. Both of these pokemon have merit to them, but in the end they just aren't worth being used over the surperior options in OU.

I still wouldn't add it just yet because in the viability rankings threads there's a bit of a controversy as to whether or not it should be ranked. I'd wait until if it is decided to be unranked.
Also not every Pokémon viable in OU gets an analysis iirc; some D 'mon like Rotom-H.

 

[havokchomp123]

I still wouldn't add it just yet because in the viability rankings threads there's a bit of a controversy as to whether or not it should be ranked. I'd wait until if it is decided to be unranked.
Also not every Pokémon viable in OU gets an analysis iirc; some D 'mon like Rotom-H.

It was completed and removed shortly after due to it's inviability. Sure time will tell but I still feel that there isn't much reason to use Mienshao over Mega Lopunny because of it's Greater strength (and i don't mean in attacking power)

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

I was browsing the usage stats and saw this:
Galladite 97.817% | | Other 2.183%

Hopefully this post will fix it.

DON'T USE THIS:

Gallade @ Any item other than the galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off

Why it's bad:

To put it bluntly without it's mega evolution gallade is one of the worst choices for an OU team. The first problem is base 80 speed is rather slow and it has no priority to comphensate for it(I know it has shadow sneak but that's awful and can't even fucking kill mega beedrill). The second part that makes it awful is it's lack of resistances and it's physical bulk is just flat out awful to the point where resisted hits like a life orb terrakion's close combat will just 2hko it. Finally using any item that isn't galladite is super dumb as you miss out on mega gallade(Read:The reason to use gallade in the first place.)

Instead Use:

Gallade @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off

Why it's viable at all unlike fcking regular gallade:

For starters it has 110 speed which is miles better then 80 and this means it can speed tie with lati@s gengar mega diance, All very dangerous threats in the meta while outspeeding terrakion,keldeo,and the crowded base 100 speed mons. Also the boosted physical defense means it won't die to a sneeze and it still has decent special bulk and it hits just as hard as regular gallade without being a complete burden for you're team and it is. Plus did I mention unlike normal gallade mega gallade has a cape? If you want to use gallade use it's mega and don't throw the entire purpose of using it down the shitter.

 

[Kurona]

The one problem I have with the above post is that it can apply to literally any Mega whose base form isn't viable in OU - and there's a lot of those - and the usage of non-galladite Gallade is extremely low. The difference between this and the mega post I did way earlier on the thread on Blastoise, Aggron, Aerodactyl, Absol and... I forget the other one atm (edit: houndoom, that was it -- I'd also done another post on Swampert); is that those five had very significant usage as a non-mega in comparison to their Mega form. I'd personally put the baseline for non-mega stone usage at 10% for one of these.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Just a point. Gallade is useless, but if he would not be, he wouldn't be outclassed by its Mega. It'd be outclassed by Conkeldurr. (Similar sets Gallade had in RU)

 

[DarkNostalgia]

What? Gallade is definitely outclassed by its mega.

But anyway, I saw February's usage stats and I was shocked. Shocked as in like holy-shit-how-can-this-happen shocked.
www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/ou-1825.txt
If you don't wanna see it for yourself, here is the TL;DR version: Pikachu has higher usage than Cobalion, Rhyperior, Absol, Sharpedo, Omastar, Reuniclus, and a dozen other viable stuff besides. I said Pikachu.

Don't Use This:

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod / Static
EVs: Whatever spread
Naive Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- whatever

Why it's bad:

Despite being the mascot of Pokemon, Pikachu is frankly, extremely bad. The fact that with a Light Ball Pikachu hits decently hard is not enough to disguise it's poor bulk, speed and coverage. It is outclassed by almost any other Electric type, since they have more bulk, better coverage options, and in some cases, another STAB option to work with.

Instead, Use This:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power Ice

Why it's better:

Thundurus is a much better Pokemon in general and outclasses Pikachu in almost every single way. Thundy can also run mixed, so theres no argument to 'mega manectric doesn't outclass pikachu since manectric can't run mixed'. In addition, Thundurus hits harder, and has better utility options in Knock Off (Pikachu with Knock Off is event iirc) and Taunt, as well as more bulk and the ability to beat things like Chansey which Pikachu would normally struggle against, not to mention the fact that Thundurus has WAY more moves in it's arsenal including stuff like Nasty Plot which Pikachu does not have.

TL;DR: Never ever use Pikachu

I dunno if it's pokeaim's fault for using a baton pass team with pikachu-belle in one of his vids or ben gay for using it in SPL, but please, do not.