Distrurbing tendencies in DP battles.

[Phiphler]

But you dont NEED to counter it with something that is neutral to it. Bronzy + Milotic make an excellent tanking pair for example, you just gotta predict right. Exploit the fact that mence is SR weak.

Mixed sweepers may indeed be the way to go, my gripe with those is that they shut down with status... Oh well, time for Guts Machamp and Lum Berry DDnite.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Blissey is need for this meta, because the closest thing to Blissey in terms of sp. walling is Cresselia.But even that falls to Specmance easily

Bold Cresselia hit by average specmance(252Spatk modest) is 50.23-59.01% Then after getting hit again by it it does about 23-29%. That means that Creeslia is going to die unless it's carrying moonlight.

As somebody else said in some other thread, "Blissey is just to ease prediction". And that's entirely true. Actually, I find that the teams I make without Blissey function better then the teams with Blissey. Usually Salamence loses much of it's health when coming in. After that, it's "Switch to a resist or Sacrifice" time. While it may not sound inviting, it usually ends in my opponent losing a Pokemon too, usually when my Revenge killer comes out after a sacrifice or prediction gone wrong. After all, Pokemon is 6 vs 6, not 1 vs 1.

 

[Flash_gearz]

Also, I think that some of out UU friends can help us kill mence, and a few ohers. My favorite is Froslass. With some pridiction you can scard mence away and bring in somthing to kill their special wall. Then use Froslass to kill mence

 

[Boa1891]

Also, I think that some of out UU friends can help us kill mence, and a few ohers. My favorite is Froslass. With some pridiction you can scard mence away and bring in somthing to kill their special wall. Then use Froslass to kill mence

You'd switch a Froslass into a Specsmence?
Suicide is blasphemy, you know.

 

[Flash_gearz]

Yes, after a few...suicides >_<

 

[Steeler]

I think it's just styles of play and such...you kill sweeper with your sweeper, opponent revenge kills...you revenge that...it's also has to do with "sacrificing" your Pokes, either to get something in, scare off whatever killed your poke, and set up or to sacrifice and revenge it. I didn't see a whole lot of sacrificing in Advance but I suppose it's a bit more common now...

 

[Forsety]

Mixed sweepers may indeed be the way to go, my gripe with those is that they shut down with status...

Actually one of the top points of Mixed attackers is that they are less effected by status than most. For one thing Burn doesn't hurt them near as bad.

Also most mixed attackers usually don't have the ability to invest in speed opting to be slightly bulkier and therefore aren't as hurt by paralysis as well. Infernape and Chainchomp are probably the exceptions.

Also, I think that some of out UU friends can help us kill mence, and a few ohers. My favorite is Froslass. With some pridiction you can scard mence away and bring in somthing to kill their special wall. Then use Froslass to kill mence

The only UU who has any business switching into an incoming Salamence Draco Meteor is Mantine, Hypno or Probopass.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Hey, I could swear a player with a somewhat good prediction and using Heatran, Bronzong, Jirachi or Empoleon (*points sig*) could be able to Counter Specsmence.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

Specsmence isn't that hard to kill. Hell, all I did was use a Careful Swampert and Specsmence couldn't OHKO it. I Avalanched it in return.

 

[MegaBuddha]

This is the reason I'm playing BL/UU. With the best things banned, everything has a better chance. With no PZ specsmence and zelf, this means other special walls actually can work. It's just more balanced. But that's just my opinion

 

[OldSchoolNub]

As far as breaking through Blissey, I like using Weavile and Scizor for that role. Specifically Scizor, because Pursuit is less predictable on him. They either leave Blissey in to potentially die, or switch it out and take a lot of damage from Pursuit. Next time you bring out your special sweeper, switch instead of attacking. That way, you get a second chance to attack Blissey before it can Softboil, and they have to guess on whether you'll Pursuit again or not. It works pretty well if you can predict your opponent's actions.

 

[Lee]

Specsmence isn't that hard to kill. Hell, all I did was use a Careful Swampert and Specsmence couldn't OHKO it. I Avalanched it in return.

That doesn't prove SpecsMence is easy to kill. It proves your opponent is an idiot for leaving him in with Swampert if he couldn't KO.

Blissey is great for the metagame as a whole. Even if at times it seems like teams consist of 5 Pokemon + Blissey, it encourages the use of prediction and more interesting movesets. McIceGar for example.

Blissey also gives free turns to a lot of physical sweepers. Something like Infernape can come in on her, Swords Dance on the switch and then OHKO 90% of the Pokemon around.

 

[Treedweller]

Bronzong with HP Ice is obviously a premier counter for SpecsMence outside of Blissey -or Gyro Ball if you're desperate-, people just have to start using creative typing to their advantage and factor that into their EV spreads and damage calculations when creating a team. Hell, even something like Slowking (needs Leftovers, though) can work as long as you create the rest of your team with his unique advantages and disadvantages in mind. There's nothing written on the wall that says you must use Blissey, and if you're really that desperate to break through Bliss, like MANY have mentioned in this topic, begin using creative mixed sweepers, because frankly, pokemon with extremely solid typing and stats in both offensive spectrums (like Lucario) are getting sorely overlooked, and would make extremely effective wall breakers that punish incorrect prediction effectively.

In other words, start getting creative, or you'll never keep up with the best players and pokemon in the current metagame.

 

[y2zipper]

My personal favorite switch-in on salamance of any kind is my vaporeon. That thing can survive DD Earthquake twice with leftover recovery and kill with ice beam. Specsmence is easy to deal with if I switch vaporeon into a flamethrower.

As far as special walls go, I invite blissey into the game because it usually allows me to set up whatever physical sweeper is going to win me the game due to it's slowness and it's unwillingness to stay in on pokemon with STAB fighting moves.

I disagree with the idea that mix sweepers are prime for this generation because they just don't hit as hard as a sweeper with only physical or special attacks because you have to give in EVs somewhere. These pokemon are walled by things with general bulk like bulky waters, cressy, and duskinor.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

That doesn't prove SpecsMence is easy to kill. It proves your opponent is an idiot for leaving him in with Swampert if he couldn't KO.

How was he supposed to know he couldn't KO it? Most normal Swamperts don't live through Draco Meteor.

 

[Lee]

Well, to be fair, Swampert doesn't even need Careful. With max HP, a neutral nature and as little as 68 Sp.Def EV's, he survives it 100% of the time, barring Stealth Rock.

SpecsMence going for an OHKO on Swampert is pure desperation. If he switches in, then yeah.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

Well, to be fair, Swampert doesn't even need Careful. With max HP, a neutral nature and as little as 68 Sp.Def EV's, he survives it 100% of the time, barring Stealth Rock.

SpecsMence going for an OHKO on Swampert is pure desperation. If he switches in, then yeah.

Ok. That's good to know.

 

[Hyphy]

I agree with Treedweller; people overlook a lot of Pokemon. MixApe is absolutely DESTRUCTIVE; I'm surprised that not everyone carries one. MixLuc, Electivire (TBolt version), MixMortar (<--- unsure of this one), MixZapdos, Tyraniboah, Blaziken (with Agility)....All of these Pokemon have POTENTIAL. Maybe they aren't as effective as you would like, but with more thought I'm sure they could be deadly. Tons of Pokemon could break up the normal pace of the game if people would just think out of the box and stop thinking of Cressy, which walls almost anything in the game and isn't worth trying to OHKO without stat uppers. My point is, just get a Mixer, leave it for mid-late game, and watch as it completely owns walls and sweepers alike.

Edit: And now I am going to sleep, so I won't be able to respond to arguments.

 

[xc_hawk]

Having a knockoff-er can actually help quite a bit when combatting the standard walls. My favorite is tentacruel (@lum berry, he's my starter), he takes lol% from cress's charge beam, and sets up t-spikes in her face (toxic + no lefties = one sad blissey). Yes I also run a gliscor, don't even start...

Random plug: tenta also survives specmence's draco meteor and ohko's with a faster ice beam the next turn.

 

[Flash_gearz]

But I think no one uses Mixed sweepers, because as a pokemon, mixing Special and physical gives you versitility, at the price of being able to hit harder.

 

[Treedweller]

Obviously, but no one said your entire team has to consist entirely of mixed sweepers... Mixed pokemon are merely a 'trump' card to begin busting through walls and reward correct prediction, and even a single mixed member should suffice if you feel you need it.

 

[MadRhetoric]

I've gotten into a stallwar once this metagame, with my Cresselia, and after that I chucked Skarmory and Cresselia out of my team. I'm now using a team of sweepers and bulkier attackers (like Swampert and Metagross), and I NEVER get caught in stall wars anymore because quite frankly, its impossible as I don't stall. I've fought pure stall teams before but they just don't stand up to the onslaught. Like Surgo said earlier, stall wars happen when both sides lack power. If you think your matches are boring, then stop making them so.

I'm not saying a team lacking ANY walls at all is best, because I do find myself wishing I had a Blissey to throw myself back on at times, but my point is it takes two to stall-war.

 

[Stallion]

I agree with Treedweller; people overlook a lot of Pokemon. MixApe is absolutely DESTRUCTIVE; I'm surprised that not everyone carries one. MixLuc, Electivire (TBolt version), MixMortar (<--- unsure of this one), MixZapdos, Tyraniboah, Blaziken (with Agility)....All of these Pokemon have POTENTIAL. Maybe they aren't as effective as you would like, but with more thought I'm sure they could be deadly. Tons of Pokemon could break up the normal pace of the game if people would just think out of the box and stop thinking of Cressy, which walls almost anything in the game and isn't worth trying to OHKO without stat uppers. My point is, just get a Mixer, leave it for mid-late game, and watch as it completely owns walls and sweepers alike.

Edit: And now I am going to sleep, so I won't be able to respond to arguments.

I make it a rule for most of my teams to carry a mixed sweeper most of the time. I use Mixape and it absolutely rapes sh-it, you switch in on Bliss and most people will be like "ahh a physical ape, ill switch to my Swampert or other bulky water, and I use that to Nasty Plot on the switch. If Bliss comes back in, then it gets raped by CC, and with Life Orb, it does circa 60 % to Cressy and can still survive a potential Psychic. I'm also a huge fan of SpecsCario as nothing can switch in on it easily except Spiritomb. 2HKOes Bliss with Aura Sphere. The point I'm getting at, is that Bliss isn't the be all and end all special wall, true it is extremely good at what it does, but there can be better alternatives to counter threat x than that.

 

[Alice]

There's one wallbreaker that doesn't need to be mixed, or use choice items to do its job: Glaceon

Just use fake tears and ice beam/shadow ball walls into oblivion XD

and YES, it works :3 (even if they switch out after taking some FT, the incoming poke is going to be hit with the strongest stabbed ice beam, lol )

And I think Cressy is better than blissey; It can wall specsmence and chain chomp, and with t-wave and reflect it can even manage to deal with heracross, SDweavile/ape and T-Tar crippling them for easy revenge kills

 

[Shen]

My problem is that Mixed sweepers tend to need to stick with either Life Orb, which handicaps their durability, or Expert Belt, which just lacks oomph. Noir and Cress wall them pretty easily even without splitting EVs, and Burn + Life Orb is serious damage without you even doing anything, moreso if you had Stealth Rock up.

Oh, and whenever I switch in my big physical attackers in on Blissey or Cress, I tend to get paralysed. Know how useful a paralysed sweeper is? Not very.