Are you sure it outspeeds Relaxed 0 IVs Ferro? Cuz they run that for Gyro Ball.
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Pokémon Decidueye
- Thread starter Jaguar360
- Start date
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Yeah, just had 77 defense instead of 75 for Decidueye before. You actually need 8 Speed IVs to ensure the 4HKO. This still outspeeds Chansey and crew by one point.
Not 100% no, but all of it's most effective sets can be somehwat hindered by low sweep. He has a bit of 4mss tbh. However bisharp and ttar share a good amount of the same checks and counters so youbdon't have to look far for team mates that can deal with them.
I get what you're saying. It can use Low Sweep, it's just not always able to actually run it, 4mss and all. When the info of it first came out, I thought Low Sweep would be its ace in the hole, but it turned out to me more viable without it than I thought?
Its what alot of us have thought.
What we have here is something Empoleon-tier. Okay in OU, much stronger in UU.
I'm just glad he turned out to be good all around. I saw the stats and my biggest fear was he would be awful.
Alright so I fixed up the bulky sd set a with a little help from Jaguar360 I think it's almost optimized.
Decidueye @Decidium Z/Life Orb/Leftovers
Adamant
192 HP 176 Atk 140 Speed
Swords Dance
Leaf Blade/Brave Bird/Low Sweep
Spirit Shackle
Sucker punch/Roost
I feel like keeping STABS is important and speed ev's are still for Rotom-W because I feel that's still rather vital as well to threaten it out. (Rotom will always be relevant lol. This set takes hits much better without sacrificing atk power compared to my adamant set. I've had some pretfy good succes with it. I'll get replays up when I can.
Also, would like to bring up that Tapu Fini is a great partner for this thing. Covers the dark and fire weakness while decidueye can take grass and electric.
Decidueye @Decidium Z/Life Orb/Leftovers
Adamant
192 HP 176 Atk 140 Speed
Swords Dance
Leaf Blade/Brave Bird/Low Sweep
Spirit Shackle
Sucker punch/Roost
I feel like keeping STABS is important and speed ev's are still for Rotom-W because I feel that's still rather vital as well to threaten it out. (Rotom will always be relevant lol. This set takes hits much better without sacrificing atk power compared to my adamant set. I've had some pretfy good succes with it. I'll get replays up when I can.
Also, would like to bring up that Tapu Fini is a great partner for this thing. Covers the dark and fire weakness while decidueye can take grass and electric.
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If you use 192 HP / 176 Atk / 140 Spe with Adamant, you get an extra six Attack points without losing anything. If you do that and move the Low Sweep and Brave Bird slashes to where Leaf Blade is, you've got a really solid set.
While I'm here, I was messing around with special Decidueye and found Roost + 3 Attacks to be pretty good.
Decidueye @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Roost / Substitute
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Baton Pass
This set gives you a nice way to lure Scizor and sustains itself decently well. Energy Ball and Shadow Ball hit hard enough, even if they're not amazing. 188 Spe outpaces defensive Lando-T and Rotoms that speed creep on Belly Drum Azu. Pretty simple set, but effective.
I don't think offensive sets have much merit on this mon outside of gimmick. It isn't that strong, and not fast or bulky enough to easily set up on much.
Personally I've found it to be pretty underwhelming overall, though I haven't yet used it on one of my own teams. The only set ive seen have success is SpDef pivot, which acts as a nice check for Rain teams, and alright utility as a pivot.
Maybe if some monsters in the meta get banned, Decidueye can gain more traction, but I really don't think its combination of traits set it up for much success in OU. The defensive typing is not that good, and it's pretty average in most stats with no real outstanding traits except a nice movepool (which I also wouldn't call outstanding). As an example from last gen OU, Infernape is a mon with an excellent movepool and many touted it as versatile. And yet out of all these things it could do, none were that good. The problem was its lackluster stats (outside of its nice speed) by OU standards and it was relegated to a niche defensive role mostly.
Decidueye may end up being OU simply based on usage, much like Sylveon and Conkeldurr were for a while, but I'm failing to see a lot of viability to be honest. This isn't to say there is no point in trying it out and discovering new sets -- the meta is young -- but I'd be surprised if this didn't end up being a niche pick with usage defined more by fan favoritism than viability.
Personally I've found it to be pretty underwhelming overall, though I haven't yet used it on one of my own teams. The only set ive seen have success is SpDef pivot, which acts as a nice check for Rain teams, and alright utility as a pivot.
Maybe if some monsters in the meta get banned, Decidueye can gain more traction, but I really don't think its combination of traits set it up for much success in OU. The defensive typing is not that good, and it's pretty average in most stats with no real outstanding traits except a nice movepool (which I also wouldn't call outstanding). As an example from last gen OU, Infernape is a mon with an excellent movepool and many touted it as versatile. And yet out of all these things it could do, none were that good. The problem was its lackluster stats (outside of its nice speed) by OU standards and it was relegated to a niche defensive role mostly.
Decidueye may end up being OU simply based on usage, much like Sylveon and Conkeldurr were for a while, but I'm failing to see a lot of viability to be honest. This isn't to say there is no point in trying it out and discovering new sets -- the meta is young -- but I'd be surprised if this didn't end up being a niche pick with usage defined more by fan favoritism than viability.
Proof of fan favoritism: this mon's thread has more replies than any other thread in Uncharted Territory. It has even more replies than Pheromosa, which is probably the most influential new pokemon in OU. You can tell there's a lot of people that want this thing to be good. I expect this thing to have Charizard syndrome, where its usage stats are greatly inflated in the 1000 range as compared to the 1600 and up range.
Awesome dude thanks for the follow up! Much appreciated!
Say what you will but the thing actually has a niche thats usable. However people are more than likely going to misjudge how to use it.
This isn't Garchomp or something that'll be a mainstay in OU forever, people want to figure out how to make Decidueye a solid pick. I can't say "Solid" is the best word as there are notable flaws but the flaws he carrys aren't so overburdening that he's useless. Its a case of "We want him to be X but he's better at Y". I can't say its Charizard Syndrome when Charizard literally brought nothing to the table (Not until he got a mega evolution). Meanwhile Decidueye's entire existence relies on Spirit Shackle. Call it a gimmick all you want but the ability to trap your opponent into an ideal switch/target is one of the most powerful moves in the game in the right hands. Will it shake up OU? I don't think so, will it offer a new territory to play around with in OU? Definitely.
I said it once and I'll say it again: I heard someone say Decidueye is "Celebi 2.0" and that couldn't be any closer to the truth than most statements I keep reading.
EDIT: Said Silvally and was thinking something else. Whoops.
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Fan favoritism definitely drives this thread a lot, but I don't think it's inflating Decidueye's competitive perception. Like for me, I like Decidueye as much as Primarina (I'm even choosing Popplio as my starter), but you don't see me hyping her up. Decidueye's actually got an interesting movepool and defined niches that can't be taken away from it. It's far from a Charizard...that's Intimidate-less Incineroar right now, and it's still not getting much attention. Comparisons to Empoleon, Celebi, and Infernape are more accurate imo in terms of its viability and versatility.
The defensive sets are definitely the best since they actually check relevant threats and take advantage of the utility options it gets. I made sure to list them first in the OP. The offense sets do work though, so I don't think they should be dismissed. They are just more "C-rank" sets than they are "B-rank" sets and fun to use.
I do agree with the general sentiment of this post however. Decidueye will find its way onto OU teams for spinblocking, hazard removal, passing for sweepers or checks to certain mons, but may not be an OU staple or reach OU usage.
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To be fair I think that's because Pheromosa is both one-dimensional and about to be quickbanned with Aegislash out of the tier. At that point there's little to discuss. There's like one good Phero set and everyone knows what it does.
A large part of the Decidueye discussion is what spread and set to use because people have been reporting success with everything from SpDef wall to offensive LO SD wallbreaker to SubPass to random shit like Curse, and its not conclusive whether or not base 70 is worth investing EVs into speed for. Beyond fan favoritism, it's just a really interesting Pokémon to discuss.
Decidueye for Smash, amirite?
Really the pivot sets are best, because it has the resistances, special bulk, and recovery to come in easily to stop important threats, the ability to force switches due to the threat of trapping, and a slow U-turn to bring something else in safely. Long Reach is gonna be great once released so it won't be screwed over by Rocky Helmet Skarm or something else it can't hurt, as its Grass STAB isn't really its main strength. Mostly its secondary sets work because of the surprise factor, and because the threat of Spirit Shackle forces a commitment.
I don't see offensive sets as a gimmick at all. I by no means think they are optimal, I think the pivot set is easily the best, but I also think you guys might be underselling this thing just a little bit. There are definitely mons that hit harder, but once the meta becomes a bit more defined I think you'll be surprised at how easily this thing gets opportunities offensively thanks to it's rare typing and decent bulk.
Edit: Did not read all the way through to catch up before posting and will correct myself, I agree with the majority ofnwhat you guys are saying. It's not groundbreaking or amazing in OU tbh, but it has a niche for itself that can't really be used by anything else exceptaybe Dhelmise if you want to sacrifice recovery. I do also think the offensive sets could be useful too though simply for the bulk, amd unpreditability of it's movepool outside of SS.
Edit: Did not read all the way through to catch up before posting and will correct myself, I agree with the majority ofnwhat you guys are saying. It's not groundbreaking or amazing in OU tbh, but it has a niche for itself that can't really be used by anything else exceptaybe Dhelmise if you want to sacrifice recovery. I do also think the offensive sets could be useful too though simply for the bulk, amd unpreditability of it's movepool outside of SS.
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How is the proof? I'm sure if you included the posts going on in metagame discussion about whether pherro should be banned or not, she'd easily tie or eclipse Decidueye in terms of amount of discussion.
Decidueye is definitely fan favorite, but he does legitimately bring stuff to the table and is pretty diverse in the amountof sets he can run.
With Aegislash out of the meta, and potentially Pheromosa out of the picture to boot (I can't say anything definite about Genesect at this point in time), I can reasonably argue that Psychic-types will see a sharp rise in the meta, namely the ridiculous Tapu Lele + M-Alakazam core.
The good thing is, outside of a Specs Shadow Ball/Psyshock from Lele (which most commonly runs Psychic), Decidueye has a decent shot against them. It still takes a huge risk coming in if there's SR on the field and/or it's taken prior damage, but with the combination of Roost and Spirit Shackle, it has a significant fighting chance.
This also makes the Decidueye + M-Gyara core that much stronger. It's definitely more prediction-reliant than most cores, that much is undisputable, but I would still claim that it will start pulling its own weight a good bit more in the coming weeks of the developing meta.
A lot of people are Decidueye fans so theyll continue to try and figure out some way to make it a thing...I'll be more interested when tiers are formed and its in UU/RU
like yeah, i could see this thing being useful in tiers like RU, but it will have no business in OU, so that's why i'm confused by this threath has so much posts now
Except it is definitely usable in OU. It's not spectacular there and will probably drop to UU, but it checks important mons reliably and is reasonably useful as a specially defensive pivot. Granted there are a number of other Pokes who do similar things and mostly do them better, but its niche is real as long as strong Electrics are running amok, and right now none of them look banworthy. I think it'll at least be C rank in terms of OU viability, and I don't see this as an RU mon unless the power creep really gets crazy.
Decidueye is a fan favorite and a pretty good pokemon, why do people act so surprised that he has discussion lol.
He's a bulky pivot that can challenge bulky water and grass types in addition to all of this lightning spam all around. he's a pretty good anti-lead pokemon and baton passer too. I don't see how this guy is RU lol.
He's a bulky pivot that can challenge bulky water and grass types in addition to all of this lightning spam all around. he's a pretty good anti-lead pokemon and baton passer too. I don't see how this guy is RU lol.
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