There's already a spreadsheet that details the abilities and stats that you gain when you evolve into a certain Pokémon (it's available on post #77 if you want to check it out). It doesn't include the notable moves acquired upon evolving into that Pokémon, though, so that'd be a useful resource to compile.
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Cross Evolution (now with Viability Rankings!)
- Thread starter dsm77773
- Start date
Random ideas. A lot of them involving Wormadam, because literally anything is an improvement over Burmy (citations unnecessary for common knowledge)
Cranidos/Wormadam-Plant. 97/155/80/80/90/58 isn't exactly a bad stat spread, but its real strength is in its amazing Rock/Grass typing with the moves to abuse it.
Drifloom/Wormadam-Trash. 110/90/84/100/94/70 ALSO isn't a bad stat spread, especially with the amazing Ghost/Steel typing.
Ponyta/Wormadam-Plant. 70/115/95/115/125/90 is another good thing. Fire/Grass is another great typing, so this being good would be almost inevitable. But it does have competition.
Lileep/Flareon. 76/116/87/111/132/33 has disadvantages, but Flash Fire with Synthesis and Flare Blitz sounds like an utter terror to deal with in sun, especially with its great defensive typing. It can also run a special set if need be. SPEAKING of Fire/Grass stuff...
Larvesta/Leafeon. 65/140/135/65/55/100 doesn't sound like much at first, but unlike the other Fire/Grass things so far, this has CHLOROPHYLL. It also has U-Turn so it can get out of there when the sun is about to run out.
Cranidos/Wormadam-Plant. 97/155/80/80/90/58 isn't exactly a bad stat spread, but its real strength is in its amazing Rock/Grass typing with the moves to abuse it.
Drifloom/Wormadam-Trash. 110/90/84/100/94/70 ALSO isn't a bad stat spread, especially with the amazing Ghost/Steel typing.
Ponyta/Wormadam-Plant. 70/115/95/115/125/90 is another good thing. Fire/Grass is another great typing, so this being good would be almost inevitable. But it does have competition.
Lileep/Flareon. 76/116/87/111/132/33 has disadvantages, but Flash Fire with Synthesis and Flare Blitz sounds like an utter terror to deal with in sun, especially with its great defensive typing. It can also run a special set if need be. SPEAKING of Fire/Grass stuff...
Larvesta/Leafeon. 65/140/135/65/55/100 doesn't sound like much at first, but unlike the other Fire/Grass things so far, this has CHLOROPHYLL. It also has U-Turn so it can get out of there when the sun is about to run out.
Not sure if this was brought up, but littleo cross-evolving noivern seems op, with stab boomburst, 125 Spa, and 140 speed.
Also, things like kadabra,haunter, etc. cross-evolving nidoking may be a problem too, with sheer force and really high Spa
High def mons like onyx, gligar, etc. crossing chansey would make an op wall, but perhaps balanced by the above mons.
Also, things like kadabra,haunter, etc. cross-evolving nidoking may be a problem too, with sheer force and really high Spa
High def mons like onyx, gligar, etc. crossing chansey would make an op wall, but perhaps balanced by the above mons.
So I've been looking through BSTs and I'd like to point out an alternative to Breloom and Lucario: Hitmonlee.
Hitmonlee: +15 HP / +85 Attack / +18 Defense / +0 Special Attack / +75 Special Defense / +52 Speed
Ability: Limber, Unburden, Reckless
Notable Moves: High Jump Kick, Fake Out, Mach Punch, Rapid Spin, Stone Edge, Earthquake
Tyrogue's garbage stats translate to wicked boosts to its Atk/SpDef/Spd, and it contributes both Mach Punch and High Jump Kick at the cost of a secondary typing. But the kicker (heh) is that it contributes Reckless on top of that. This can be pretty scary on a few Pokemon, such as:
Ponyta: 65 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 65 Special Attack / 140 Special Defense / 142 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
Cranidos: 82 HP / 210 Attack / 58 Defense / 30 Special Attack / 105 Special Defense / 110 Speed (Has Head Smash)
Rufflet: 85 HP / 168 Attack / 68 Defense / 37 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Murkrow: 75 HP / 170 Attack / 60 Defense / 85 Special Attack / 117 Special Defense / 143 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Doduo: 50 HP / 170 Attack / 63 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 110 Special Defense / 127 Speed (Has Brave Bird/Double Edge)
Larvesta: 70 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 50 Special Attack / 130 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
While many of these Pokemon lack access to Swords Dance (just Cranidos), STAB Reckless attacks backed by HJK coverage makes them fearsome wallbreakers from the get-go. While not top tier I think it warrants mention as a specialized option.
EDIT: One more I forgot to mention...
Meinfoo: 60 HP / 170 Attack / 68 Defense / 55 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 117 Speed
Say hello to Mienshao 2.0. (Mienshao itself also provides Reckless HJK and does offer Swords Dance and U-turn, but it gives a lot less Attack, less Speed and loses Mach Punch and a few utilities.)
Hitmonlee: +15 HP / +85 Attack / +18 Defense / +0 Special Attack / +75 Special Defense / +52 Speed
Ability: Limber, Unburden, Reckless
Notable Moves: High Jump Kick, Fake Out, Mach Punch, Rapid Spin, Stone Edge, Earthquake
Tyrogue's garbage stats translate to wicked boosts to its Atk/SpDef/Spd, and it contributes both Mach Punch and High Jump Kick at the cost of a secondary typing. But the kicker (heh) is that it contributes Reckless on top of that. This can be pretty scary on a few Pokemon, such as:
Ponyta: 65 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 65 Special Attack / 140 Special Defense / 142 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
Cranidos: 82 HP / 210 Attack / 58 Defense / 30 Special Attack / 105 Special Defense / 110 Speed (Has Head Smash)
Rufflet: 85 HP / 168 Attack / 68 Defense / 37 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Murkrow: 75 HP / 170 Attack / 60 Defense / 85 Special Attack / 117 Special Defense / 143 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Doduo: 50 HP / 170 Attack / 63 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 110 Special Defense / 127 Speed (Has Brave Bird/Double Edge)
Larvesta: 70 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 50 Special Attack / 130 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
While many of these Pokemon lack access to Swords Dance (just Cranidos), STAB Reckless attacks backed by HJK coverage makes them fearsome wallbreakers from the get-go. While not top tier I think it warrants mention as a specialized option.
EDIT: One more I forgot to mention...
Meinfoo: 60 HP / 170 Attack / 68 Defense / 55 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 117 Speed
Say hello to Mienshao 2.0. (Mienshao itself also provides Reckless HJK and does offer Swords Dance and U-turn, but it gives a lot less Attack, less Speed and loses Mach Punch and a few utilities.)
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Ponyta is listed twice but with different stats and attacks, so I'm guessing one is wrong.So I've been looking through BSTs and I'd like to point out an alternative to Breloom and Lucario: Hitmonlee.
Hitmonlee: +15 HP / +85 Attack / +18 Defense / +0 Special Attack / +75 Special Defense / +52 Speed
Ability: Limber, Unburden, Reckless
Notable Moves: High Jump Kick, Fake Out, Mach Punch, Rapid Spin, Stone Edge, Earthquake
Tyrogue's garbage stats translate to wicked boosts to its Atk/SpDef/Spd, and it contributes both Mach Punch and High Jump Kick at the cost of a secondary typing. But the kicker (heh) is that it contributes Reckless on top of that. This can be pretty scary on a few Pokemon, such as:
Ponyta: 65 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 65 Special Attack / 140 Special Defense / 142 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
Cranidos: 82 HP / 210 Attack / 58 Defense / 30 Special Attack / 105 Special Defense / 110 Speed (Has Head Smash)
Rufflet: 85 HP / 168 Attack / 68 Defense / 37 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Murkrow: 75 HP / 170 Attack / 60 Defense / 85 Special Attack / 117 Special Defense / 143 Speed (Has Brave Bird)
Doduo: 50 HP / 170 Attack / 63 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 110 Special Defense / 127 Speed (Has Brave Bird/Double Edge)
Ponyta: 70 HP / 170 Attack / 73 Defense / 50 Special Attack / 130 Special Defense / 112 Speed (Has Flare Blitz/Wild Charge)
While many of these Pokemon lack access to Swords Dance (just Cranidos), STAB Reckless attacks backed by HJK coverage makes them fearsome wallbreakers from the get-go. While not top tier I think it warrants mention as a specialized option.
EDIT: One more I forgot to mention...
Meinfoo: 60 HP / 170 Attack / 68 Defense / 55 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 117 Speed
Say hello to Mienshao 2.0. (Mienshao itself also provides Reckless HJK and does offer Swords Dance and U-turn, but it gives a lot less Attack, less Speed and loses Mach Punch and a few utilities.)
Also I'm seeing Murkrow > Rufflet, the small difference in bulk does not matter much because they're both extremely frail, but the extra Speed/Attack are worthy.
Oh yeah, the second one should be Larvesta.
Rufflet's there mainly because it has outstanding Attack, decent Speed and a recoil move not named Double-Edge. Still, it can U-turn where Murkrow and Doduo can't so it could see niche use as a Scarfed mon.
Rufflet's there mainly because it has outstanding Attack, decent Speed and a recoil move not named Double-Edge. Still, it can U-turn where Murkrow and Doduo can't so it could see niche use as a Scarfed mon.
oh.. DAMMIT i knew i was too late xD
While we're on the topic of Hitmons, Hitmontop evos are also an absolute terror; especially Steel-types.
Hitmontop: +15 HP / +60 Attack / +60 Defense / +0 Special Attack / +75 Special Defense / +35 Speed
Ability: Intimidate, Technician, Steadfast
Notable Moves: Close Combat, Bullet Punch, Rapid Spin, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Pursuit
Less notable moves include Fake Out, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and High Jump Kick (incompatible with Sucker Punch).
Less Attack and Speed than Lee, but significantly more Defense and two great abilities to choose from! Tyrogue's glorious breeding pool is still there and the one move that stands out is Bullet Punch. Basically, Hitmontop lets you turn any Stage 1 Steel into Scizor (although you miss out on U-turn).
Klink: 55 HP / 115 Attack / 130 Defense / 45 Special Attack / 135 Special Defense / 65 Speed
The weakest candidate, but it has an ace in the hole with Shift Gear and Technician Gear Grind. Still, Klinklade exists and probably outcompetes it. Dishonorable mention to Beldum, who trades its entire personal movepool for dual Psychic typing and marginally better stat distribution.
Aron: 65 HP / 130 Attack / 160 Defense / 40 Special Attack / 115 Special Defense / 65 Speed
Awful defensive typing but it's as strong as Scizor and with STAB Edge/Quake it's better at deterring the usual Steel checks. You can Head Smash too if you care more about seeing bodies fly than the recoil.
Honedge: 60 HP / 140 Attack / 160 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 112 Special Defense / 63 Speed
Technician Bullet Punch AND Shadow Sneak? With Swords Dance to boost Attack? Now I'm starting to get scared. At least it can't get much worse, right? ...right?
*beat*
Pawniard: 60 HP / 145 Attack / 130 Defense / 40 Special Attack / 115 Special Defense / 95 Speed
Run, run, run, run, run run, run, run, RUN!!!
But if none of these strike your fancy, there's always the defensive Intimidate Rapid Spinners to consider!
Bronzor: 72 HP / 84 Attack / 146 Defense / 24 Special Attack / 161 Special Defense / 58 Speed
Ferroseed: 59 HP / 110 Attack / 151 Defense / 24 Special Attack / 161 Special Defense / 45 Speed
Shieldon: 45 HP / 102 Attack / 178 Defense / 42 Special Attack / 163 Special Defense / 65 Speed
Again, dishonorable mention to Beldum which is outclassed by Bronzor. Aron can probably do Shieldon's job better.
Hitmontop: +15 HP / +60 Attack / +60 Defense / +0 Special Attack / +75 Special Defense / +35 Speed
Ability: Intimidate, Technician, Steadfast
Notable Moves: Close Combat, Bullet Punch, Rapid Spin, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Pursuit
Less notable moves include Fake Out, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and High Jump Kick (incompatible with Sucker Punch).
Less Attack and Speed than Lee, but significantly more Defense and two great abilities to choose from! Tyrogue's glorious breeding pool is still there and the one move that stands out is Bullet Punch. Basically, Hitmontop lets you turn any Stage 1 Steel into Scizor (although you miss out on U-turn).
Klink: 55 HP / 115 Attack / 130 Defense / 45 Special Attack / 135 Special Defense / 65 Speed
The weakest candidate, but it has an ace in the hole with Shift Gear and Technician Gear Grind. Still, Klinklade exists and probably outcompetes it. Dishonorable mention to Beldum, who trades its entire personal movepool for dual Psychic typing and marginally better stat distribution.
Aron: 65 HP / 130 Attack / 160 Defense / 40 Special Attack / 115 Special Defense / 65 Speed
Awful defensive typing but it's as strong as Scizor and with STAB Edge/Quake it's better at deterring the usual Steel checks. You can Head Smash too if you care more about seeing bodies fly than the recoil.
Honedge: 60 HP / 140 Attack / 160 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 112 Special Defense / 63 Speed
Technician Bullet Punch AND Shadow Sneak? With Swords Dance to boost Attack? Now I'm starting to get scared. At least it can't get much worse, right? ...right?
*beat*
Pawniard: 60 HP / 145 Attack / 130 Defense / 40 Special Attack / 115 Special Defense / 95 Speed
Run, run, run, run, run run, run, run, RUN!!!
But if none of these strike your fancy, there's always the defensive Intimidate Rapid Spinners to consider!
Bronzor: 72 HP / 84 Attack / 146 Defense / 24 Special Attack / 161 Special Defense / 58 Speed
Ferroseed: 59 HP / 110 Attack / 151 Defense / 24 Special Attack / 161 Special Defense / 45 Speed
Shieldon: 45 HP / 102 Attack / 178 Defense / 42 Special Attack / 163 Special Defense / 65 Speed
Again, dishonorable mention to Beldum which is outclassed by Bronzor. Aron can probably do Shieldon's job better.
Angry slowly heads into the thread, drops out some sets, Then runs out of the thread, fast
Also Seeing how this meta is kinda half-dead, Here is something to discuss:-
Nidoking (Magmar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Typing: Fire/Ground
Stats: 85/125/77/130/105/113
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power/Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
A really great Cross-evo, Magmar is literally from if not the best abuser of Magmar, Even though its typing isn't exactly good, it still is not awful with the neutrality to SR, and also it gains multiple options from Nidoking, whether it is BoltBeam, Great capabilties or even more, add in LO and Sheer Force, and just wreak havoc here and there
Serperior (Gurdurr) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Typing: Fighting
Stats: 100/120/105/55/70/70
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Glare
Glare the opponent and paralyze him, Then slowly begin boosting up with some powerful Contrary'ed superpower, Add in Drain Punch and the fact it can setup much easier, Gurdurr surely shines
Zoroark (Misdreavus) @ Life Orb
Typing: Ghost
Stats: 80/100/80/125/105/125
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
Look what is back, Illusion is! With a great ability, Great Movepool that Zoroark+Misdreavus support for great coverage, and the nice 100/125/125 Attacking stats with mediocre bulk, Misdreavus surely fits the trickster feeling that Zoroark can make, This is one out of 100s of sets this thing can run with its wonderful movepool, I mean who knows, Maybe you can illusion as physical attacker or a tank then take out 1 or 2 pokemons
Scolipede (Gabite) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Type: Dragon/Ground
Stats: 88/135/55/65/45/147
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
With Great speed, After 1 speed boost it would literally outspeed everything, Even Deo-S with positive nature and fully invest, In other words after 1 swords dance this thing is literally undefeatable, EQ and Dragon Claw are nice coverage with each other, and poison jab works as a Fairy Lure, All in all this thing can rekt anything without Skarmory's typing
Hydreigon (Magneton) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Typing: Electric/Steel
Stats: 70/80/115/180/90/110
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt /Discharge/Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
Again, A fabulous stat (this time SpA) with nice coverage options and also a very great typing allowing it to tank some hits fairly nice, there is not much more to say really except rekt everything with your coverage
Sylveon (Murkrow) @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
Typing: Fairy/Flying
Stats: 100/95/57/150/107/96
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Heat Wave
With Nice Coverage, Nice Typing and Nice literally everything, This little murkrow just leaved its darkness and gained a fairy part to be Fairy/Flying one of the best typings, It has great coverage and great movepool, also instead of the scarf set, it can run Calm Mind, Toxic, Or whatever it want from its great dualpool
Ability: Sheer Force
Typing: Fire/Ground
Stats: 85/125/77/130/105/113
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power/Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
A really great Cross-evo, Magmar is literally from if not the best abuser of Magmar, Even though its typing isn't exactly good, it still is not awful with the neutrality to SR, and also it gains multiple options from Nidoking, whether it is BoltBeam, Great capabilties or even more, add in LO and Sheer Force, and just wreak havoc here and there
Serperior (Gurdurr) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Typing: Fighting
Stats: 100/120/105/55/70/70
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Glare
Glare the opponent and paralyze him, Then slowly begin boosting up with some powerful Contrary'ed superpower, Add in Drain Punch and the fact it can setup much easier, Gurdurr surely shines
Zoroark (Misdreavus) @ Life Orb
Typing: Ghost
Stats: 80/100/80/125/105/125
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
Look what is back, Illusion is! With a great ability, Great Movepool that Zoroark+Misdreavus support for great coverage, and the nice 100/125/125 Attacking stats with mediocre bulk, Misdreavus surely fits the trickster feeling that Zoroark can make, This is one out of 100s of sets this thing can run with its wonderful movepool, I mean who knows, Maybe you can illusion as physical attacker or a tank then take out 1 or 2 pokemons
Scolipede (Gabite) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Type: Dragon/Ground
Stats: 88/135/55/65/45/147
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
With Great speed, After 1 speed boost it would literally outspeed everything, Even Deo-S with positive nature and fully invest, In other words after 1 swords dance this thing is literally undefeatable, EQ and Dragon Claw are nice coverage with each other, and poison jab works as a Fairy Lure, All in all this thing can rekt anything without Skarmory's typing
Hydreigon (Magneton) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Typing: Electric/Steel
Stats: 70/80/115/180/90/110
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt /Discharge/Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
Again, A fabulous stat (this time SpA) with nice coverage options and also a very great typing allowing it to tank some hits fairly nice, there is not much more to say really except rekt everything with your coverage
Sylveon (Murkrow) @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
Typing: Fairy/Flying
Stats: 100/95/57/150/107/96
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Heat Wave
With Nice Coverage, Nice Typing and Nice literally everything, This little murkrow just leaved its darkness and gained a fairy part to be Fairy/Flying one of the best typings, It has great coverage and great movepool, also instead of the scarf set, it can run Calm Mind, Toxic, Or whatever it want from its great dualpool
Also Seeing how this meta is kinda half-dead, Here is something to discuss:-
- Which way is better for balancing the Meta: The restricting 600 BST total rule which would take out a lot of fusions but also let us unban the pokemon unable to Cross-Evo currently (Scyther,Sneasel etc.) and unban gyarados
- OR the idea of making this meta uber based, which could allow us to see some interesting combos like Zekrom in Voltturn teams or more like adding Groudon/Kyogre to set weather for the SS or Chlorophyll users to abuse (If we add in uber, There will steal be some bans due to having a meta filled with Pdon is unhealthy when something can be as strong as metapod :P)
I feel uber based wouldn't be half bad. But I think the majority of the Pokemon there will be banned, even with the cross evolutions. I don't know what else to say about it.
Oh, I forgot to say this in my post, But here is something that wasn't clear in the thread:
You can still normal evo and choose not to Cross-Evo!
Pretty much off, You can still normal evo to choose normal evolutions without doing it with nicknames, The benefit of that is still having megas/Eviolite/Specific items in the meta but only for their original to use, In other words:-
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
&
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
Are still possible to use!
Other would be unbanned unless determined OP by anyone
You can still normal evo and choose not to Cross-Evo!
Pretty much off, You can still normal evo to choose normal evolutions without doing it with nicknames, The benefit of that is still having megas/Eviolite/Specific items in the meta but only for their original to use, In other words:-
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
&
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
Are still possible to use!
Well, Currently the only things that would be banned from Uber if we choose to make it like that would be the Primals and M-Mewtwo Y/X
Other would be unbanned unless determined OP by anyone
Tbh we can't know if the metagame is "unbalanced" so I don't see neither of them necessary. Evolutionary Cross is sadly not coded yet, so anything about it is pure theorymonning. We don't really know what will happen if this gets coded. We might end up with an unbalananced metagame, or we might need to ban Milotic, yes, but we can get a balanced metagame as well. And even if Evolutionary Cross ends up unbalanced, I'm still for banning anything over-centralizing unless that implies banning half of the meta.
I agree, But as I said in the post, It doesn't mean any of these ideas will gain a higher chance, it is just the fact that we would know what the community think about the OM/What or how they would like it to be, Get me?
I personally feel like Uber because I prefer unbanning things for it to get balanced then banning a heck lot of things to do the same Purpose
Man, I just noticed that I had Wailmer listed as a stage 2 cross-evolver, and nobody informed me. Fixed that error. -_-
Anyway, another idea came to my mind: Final Gambit. Finding a good balance between HP and Speed is difficult, however, especially because of cross-evolvers who have too little Defense (i.e., 45 or less) to inherit from Ninjask or Accelgor. The highest possible HP stat for use with Final Gambit would be Munchlax -> Primeape/Raticate/Dugtrio with 160, but that would have a measly base 30 Speed. On the other hand, the fastest possible Final Gambit would be Voltorb -> Ninjask/Accelgor with base 220 Speed, but that would have a measly base 70 HP. For reference, any base HP with max investment is roughly equivalent to 30 more base HP uninvested; e.g., 70 max ≈ 100 uninvested. Also, Staraptor is the only stage 3 with Final Gambit, and Chansey cannot cross-evolve into that (because too much HP).
So, here are the two best candidates that I found:
Ninjask (Lickitung) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Frustration
- Wish
Base Stats: 120/100/30/80/95/150
Typing: Normal/Flying
Just FYI: I believe Ninjask is more preferable as a cross-evolution than Accelgor because of stronger U-turn, the extra immunity to Ground and Spikes, and, most of all, Infiltrator. (Also, Lickitung lacks Hyper Voice, which would otherwise be its STAB choice if cross-evolving into Accelgor.) Final Gambit does ridiculous damage coming off of 443 HP, and even if it loses HP to Stealth Rock, it's still left with a respectable 333 HP. U-turn is an obligatory pivot move, Frustration (or Return if you prefer) is STAB to fall back on if it just needs to revenge kill, and Wish, while pretty much filler, could be situationally useful in granting a last-ditch heal if used on the turn it faints. Knock Off is an alternative option if Wish does not appeal.
(HP = 443; Speed = 438 -> 657)
Ninjask (Gligar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Base Stats: 95/120/60/55/85/205
Typing: Ground/Flying (unchanged)
While this alternative has less HP and is more prone to Aqua Jet and Ice Shard, it is faster, stronger, and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock. (Also, Electric seems like a more useful immunity than Ghost, especially because of Thunder Wave.) The set functionally works the same way, but Gligar does not get Wish and has a different STAB move in Earthquake.
(HP = 394; Speed = 559 -> 838)
Anyway, another idea came to my mind: Final Gambit. Finding a good balance between HP and Speed is difficult, however, especially because of cross-evolvers who have too little Defense (i.e., 45 or less) to inherit from Ninjask or Accelgor. The highest possible HP stat for use with Final Gambit would be Munchlax -> Primeape/Raticate/Dugtrio with 160, but that would have a measly base 30 Speed. On the other hand, the fastest possible Final Gambit would be Voltorb -> Ninjask/Accelgor with base 220 Speed, but that would have a measly base 70 HP. For reference, any base HP with max investment is roughly equivalent to 30 more base HP uninvested; e.g., 70 max ≈ 100 uninvested. Also, Staraptor is the only stage 3 with Final Gambit, and Chansey cannot cross-evolve into that (because too much HP).
So, here are the two best candidates that I found:
Ninjask (Lickitung) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Frustration
- Wish
Base Stats: 120/100/30/80/95/150
Typing: Normal/Flying
Just FYI: I believe Ninjask is more preferable as a cross-evolution than Accelgor because of stronger U-turn, the extra immunity to Ground and Spikes, and, most of all, Infiltrator. (Also, Lickitung lacks Hyper Voice, which would otherwise be its STAB choice if cross-evolving into Accelgor.) Final Gambit does ridiculous damage coming off of 443 HP, and even if it loses HP to Stealth Rock, it's still left with a respectable 333 HP. U-turn is an obligatory pivot move, Frustration (or Return if you prefer) is STAB to fall back on if it just needs to revenge kill, and Wish, while pretty much filler, could be situationally useful in granting a last-ditch heal if used on the turn it faints. Knock Off is an alternative option if Wish does not appeal.
(HP = 443; Speed = 438 -> 657)
Ninjask (Gligar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Base Stats: 95/120/60/55/85/205
Typing: Ground/Flying (unchanged)
While this alternative has less HP and is more prone to Aqua Jet and Ice Shard, it is faster, stronger, and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock. (Also, Electric seems like a more useful immunity than Ghost, especially because of Thunder Wave.) The set functionally works the same way, but Gligar does not get Wish and has a different STAB move in Earthquake.
(HP = 394; Speed = 559 -> 838)
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Funny story, Showdown actually work against you here, because it removes nicknames that are other Pokemon. So to even get this off the ground you'll have to either tweak team-validator.js, or re-implement it...
Anyway, I was bored and this seemed fun enough, and AWailOfATail said it was okay so I did this (sorta).
config/formats.js: http://pastebin.com/A4CbjkgN
mods/crossevolution/scripts.js: http://pastebin.com/GeiduU4Q
mods/crossevolution/items.js: http://pastebin.com/23kEPziF
This entire OM doesn't work without removing the hardcoding in team-validator.js though, so whoever wants to host this also has to do the following (or they can reimplement all of the TeamValidator in the mod, I guess):
I cannot guarantee this doesn't break everything ever, but it's been stable when I tested it...
It's the first time I do anything like this, so if it crashes and burns please tell me. :(
Anyway, I was bored and this seemed fun enough, and AWailOfATail said it was okay so I did this (sorta).
config/formats.js: http://pastebin.com/A4CbjkgN
mods/crossevolution/scripts.js: http://pastebin.com/GeiduU4Q
mods/crossevolution/items.js: http://pastebin.com/23kEPziF
This entire OM doesn't work without removing the hardcoding in team-validator.js though, so whoever wants to host this also has to do the following (or they can reimplement all of the TeamValidator in the mod, I guess):
Code:
if (this.getTemplate(name).exists) {
return ["Your Pokémon cannot have a nickname that is another Pokémon.", "(Your " + team[i].species + "'s nickname is " + name + ")"];
}It's the first time I do anything like this, so if it crashes and burns please tell me. :(
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tagging urkerab to maybe implement this on ROM if the code works
Chansey (Nosepass) now has 180 HP, 135 Def and 130 SpD. The +44% boost to SpA won't go unnoticed either.
Your type changing code looked all wrong (in general, but particularly not for Bellossom) so I rewrote it. (I also changed some of the coding style more to my preference, but not for correctness reasons.) I haven't tested the code yet, so please remember to mention any crashes to me because they won't otherwise ping me. (On an unrelated note, my list of other metagames is getting cluttered. Any ideas for how to reduce the clutter? Again, mention them to me on the server. Thanks.)
Also tagging Snaquaza to implement it on Aqua if he wants to (and if the code works ofc)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-3325
For some reason, Imposter doesn't work (it definitely was Imposter and not Limber, I checked). My 252+ Speed (I checked) Misdreavus Lucario (115 base) was outsped by a Mega Metagross (110 base), but that one might be something to do with the teambuilder not saving the EVs.
EDIT: Transform doesn't work either
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-3341
For some reason, Imposter doesn't work (it definitely was Imposter and not Limber, I checked). My 252+ Speed (I checked) Misdreavus Lucario (115 base) was outsped by a Mega Metagross (110 base), but that one might be something to do with the teambuilder not saving the EVs.
EDIT: Transform doesn't work either
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-3341
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Here's a decent option for a bulky hazard-setting lead:
[95/105/135/65/95/80; BST: 575]
Masquerain (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- U-turn / Knock Off / Earthquake / Roost
- Roost / Knock Off / Earthquake / U-turn
Gets both Stealth Rock (through Gligar) and Sticky Web (through Masquerain), both useful hazards to set up with nearly any team style. The current EV spread I'm using aims to maximize Special Defense, as Intimidate already cushions physical blows and its base Defense is much higher than its base Special Defense to begin with; the spread is customizable if you want to check certain threats it wouldn't be able to with the current spread, though, so feel free to change them as your team demands. The third and fourth moves are also customizable: U-turn and Roost are the preferred options as they allow Gligar->Masquerain to pivot and heal off HP, respectively, which are both important to its status as a bulky hazard-setter; however, Knock Off (to remove items in addition to doing a bit more damage than U-turn) and Earthquake (a powerful, reliable STAB) are also good options depending on what your team wants. With Earthquake, it's probably a good idea to increase its Attack investment so it'll do a bit more damage.
[95/105/135/65/95/80; BST: 575]
Masquerain (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- U-turn / Knock Off / Earthquake / Roost
- Roost / Knock Off / Earthquake / U-turn
Gets both Stealth Rock (through Gligar) and Sticky Web (through Masquerain), both useful hazards to set up with nearly any team style. The current EV spread I'm using aims to maximize Special Defense, as Intimidate already cushions physical blows and its base Defense is much higher than its base Special Defense to begin with; the spread is customizable if you want to check certain threats it wouldn't be able to with the current spread, though, so feel free to change them as your team demands. The third and fourth moves are also customizable: U-turn and Roost are the preferred options as they allow Gligar->Masquerain to pivot and heal off HP, respectively, which are both important to its status as a bulky hazard-setter; however, Knock Off (to remove items in addition to doing a bit more damage than U-turn) and Earthquake (a powerful, reliable STAB) are also good options depending on what your team wants. With Earthquake, it's probably a good idea to increase its Attack investment so it'll do a bit more damage.
Cross Evolution was written as a forme change, which Imposter/Transform can't copy as it only works with real Pokémon. Mix and Mega works around this by creating a virtual Pokémon which Imposter/Transform can then copy, but it has the advantage of only needing to do this when you explicitly mega evolve. It might be possible to create the necessary virtual Pokémon at the beginning of the battle, which would solve that problem.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-3378
Decided to do a mirror match test against myself, and Braixen's actually pretty incredible after a +1 from QD when cross evolved with Vivillon
Decided to do a mirror match test against myself, and Braixen's actually pretty incredible after a +1 from QD when cross evolved with Vivillon
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