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Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
If gengar is the only pokémon on your team that can defeat a weakened cbtar, you've done some bad team building.
That's a really interesting set Lavos, but I'd probably just go with Max Speed on that. Your chances of those 8 extra Special Attack EVs actually doing anything Special are much smaller than having the chance to speed tie with other base 110s running Hidden Power [Fire]. As for underrated sets, this is something I've been using a lot on one of my stall teams.
Milotic @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
Milotic is actually really good, especially given how well it does against most things under Rain that aren't Thundurus-T. It switches in on Keldeo, Politoed and Rotom-W nicely, while even Ferrothorn doesn't want to switch in risking a Scald burn. Special Attackers in general have a really difficult time taking Milotic down, and once you can get a couple layers of Spikes up, it's stupidly easy to whittle down entire teams with this thing. For a lot of teams in general I find it really nice to have a status absorber, especially one that doesn't mind being asleep. I'm sure there's a better EV spread for this but it works fine as it is, but yeah you really should try this thing if you're looking for a new bulky water.
Milotic @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
Milotic is actually really good, especially given how well it does against most things under Rain that aren't Thundurus-T. It switches in on Keldeo, Politoed and Rotom-W nicely, while even Ferrothorn doesn't want to switch in risking a Scald burn. Special Attackers in general have a really difficult time taking Milotic down, and once you can get a couple layers of Spikes up, it's stupidly easy to whittle down entire teams with this thing. For a lot of teams in general I find it really nice to have a status absorber, especially one that doesn't mind being asleep. I'm sure there's a better EV spread for this but it works fine as it is, but yeah you really should try this thing if you're looking for a new bulky water.
who is switching Tyranitar into Gengar unless they carry Chople Berry? I mean i get that Focus Blasts accuracy sucks, but 2HKOing Bulky Ttar variants also sucks when you can OHKO most with Focus Blast ,maybe calcs would help others to understand how much TTar needs to be weakend to get killed by that Brick Break. i am seconding Jimbons concern about running max speed Latios really often carries HP Fire and being able to tie with it is often more worthwhile than the 8 EVs you get otherwise (unless of course they net you an important KO but i doubt that).
The rest of the set even though not really all that new and creative is pretty good and showcases how you can use Gengar as an effective Spinblocker for offensive teams.
@Jimbon the problem with your set is first that RestTalk sucks hard in Gen 5 since once you are asleep you likely will never wake up again and that Milotic is outclassed by every other bulky water in OU that can run a similar set but have a useful secondary typing giving them more resistances and better abilities than Milotic.
This gengar doesn't 2kho cbtar since he is running some ev in Hp : 136 Atk Gengar Brick Break vs 156 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 45,26% - 53,68%
Have you tried life orb ? It seems to be more useful than focus sash imo, with a spread like 20 atk/ 244 spatk / 244 spd @Life Orb you get the 2KHO on CB Tar, and 3KHO against offensive heatran after the rock.
Have you tried life orb ? It seems to be more useful than focus sash imo, with a spread like 20 atk/ 244 spatk / 244 spd @Life Orb you get the 2KHO on CB Tar, and 3KHO against offensive heatran after the rock.
why is everyone mad at brick break
you can't ohko most bulky ttars with focus blast, in fact you can't ohko any of them if they have any sdef + hp at all, come on burningman. unless you're running life orb (which my set isn't because life orb gar sucks) then you're not ohkoing, and even if you were, you're not 30% of the time because focus blast's accuracy is horrible. tying with hp fire latios doesn't even matter because nobody runs that junk and if they do i'm switching out! brick break is professional 100% cbtar killer. (is 2hko after rocks @cyredax)
you can't ohko most bulky ttars with focus blast, in fact you can't ohko any of them if they have any sdef + hp at all, come on burningman. unless you're running life orb (which my set isn't because life orb gar sucks) then you're not ohkoing, and even if you were, you're not 30% of the time because focus blast's accuracy is horrible. tying with hp fire latios doesn't even matter because nobody runs that junk and if they do i'm switching out! brick break is professional 100% cbtar killer. (is 2hko after rocks @cyredax)
That's actually a p cool set imo @ lavos, my main issue with it is that for most games brick break will be a complete waste, and really the only time it's better is vs ttar (since fblast wont OHKO in most cases). fblast is p much better though for everything else low accuracy notwithstanding. I like that idea though, could see that being useful at times.
With this Landorus-I dominated metagame, I've been using this Tyranitar to great sucess:
Tyranitar (F) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Crunch / Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Superpower
It looks a lot like the Choice Band set, it even has the same EVs. Except that it has a different item and different moves. It loses out a lot of wallbreaking power, but that is not a problem if you pair it with Pokémon like Choice Specs Keldeo.
The main reason why I have been using this set is because of this situation: your opponent brings in Latias (a common counter for Landorus), then you Pursuit their Latias. OK, you OHKOed their main counter to your Landorus. However, now they bring their own Landorus, which can absorb Pursuit and proceed to destroy your entire team. This set is designed to combat that. Nobody is expecting Tyranitar to fire off an Ice Beam (which OHKOes 4/0 Landorus and 200/0 Landorus-T); it is so funny, but SO FUNNY AND SATISFYING, to see their Landorus killed by Ice Beam.
Generally, the best moveset to use is Crunch / Pursuit / Ice Beam / Fire Blast. Crunch and Pursuit puts Latias and Celebi in a check-mate position. Thanks to the EVs, Adamant nature and Expert Belt, Crunch will OHKO them if they decide to stay in. Should you predict a switch, Pursuit OHKOes them. Ice Beam OHKOes both Landorus' forms, and deals with many Dragon-types such as Dragonite. It also hits Gliscor. On the last slot, Fire Blast is used, so that Steel-types like Scizor and Ferrothorn do not wall Tyranitar. Stone Edge can replace Crunch for a STAB option that hits harder than Crunch in general. It also hits Volcarona and Gyarados, in addition to hitting Flying-types harder. Without Crunch, however, Tyranitar will be unable to OHKO Latias. As this set is meant to feign a Choice Band set, only use Stone Edge if you really have problems with Volcarona and Gyarados. Superpower can be used instead of Fire Blast, as without it, Heatran, Terrakion, and opposing Tyranitar have free reign. Also, Blissey and Chansey can surprisingly wall Tyranitar without Superpower! In addition, this move still cover most Steel-types. However, there are many Steel-types not weak to Fighting, such as Jirachi and Scizor. A good side of Superpower is that it can help in bluffing a Choice Band set, as most CBtar use Superpower for coverage.
A Lonely nature should be used. As most of Tyranitar's weakness are commonly seen as physical moves (Earthquake, Close Combat, U-Turn, as well as priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch), a Lonely nature is the best and does not hinder Tyranitar that much. Other natures are suboptimal for a variety of reasons. Naughty, because Tyranitar needs to preserve its special bulk to tank attacks like Draco Meteor, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and even Surf. Adamant, because with a negative nature, Ice Beam fails to OHKO Landorus (even with Expert Belt). A nature that augments an stat other than Attack is also not recommended, because without an Attack-boosting nature, Tyranitar fails to OHKO 252 HP Latias with Crunch, even with Expert Belt and 252 Attack EVs. This OHKO is important because it helps in feigning a Choice Band set, which is the only common Tyranitar set that can OHKO Latias. An Expert Belt is needeed to gain the OHKO on Latias with Crunch and the OHKO on Landorus with Ice Beam.
Tyranitar (F) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Crunch / Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Superpower
It looks a lot like the Choice Band set, it even has the same EVs. Except that it has a different item and different moves. It loses out a lot of wallbreaking power, but that is not a problem if you pair it with Pokémon like Choice Specs Keldeo.
The main reason why I have been using this set is because of this situation: your opponent brings in Latias (a common counter for Landorus), then you Pursuit their Latias. OK, you OHKOed their main counter to your Landorus. However, now they bring their own Landorus, which can absorb Pursuit and proceed to destroy your entire team. This set is designed to combat that. Nobody is expecting Tyranitar to fire off an Ice Beam (which OHKOes 4/0 Landorus and 200/0 Landorus-T); it is so funny, but SO FUNNY AND SATISFYING, to see their Landorus killed by Ice Beam.
Generally, the best moveset to use is Crunch / Pursuit / Ice Beam / Fire Blast. Crunch and Pursuit puts Latias and Celebi in a check-mate position. Thanks to the EVs, Adamant nature and Expert Belt, Crunch will OHKO them if they decide to stay in. Should you predict a switch, Pursuit OHKOes them. Ice Beam OHKOes both Landorus' forms, and deals with many Dragon-types such as Dragonite. It also hits Gliscor. On the last slot, Fire Blast is used, so that Steel-types like Scizor and Ferrothorn do not wall Tyranitar. Stone Edge can replace Crunch for a STAB option that hits harder than Crunch in general. It also hits Volcarona and Gyarados, in addition to hitting Flying-types harder. Without Crunch, however, Tyranitar will be unable to OHKO Latias. As this set is meant to feign a Choice Band set, only use Stone Edge if you really have problems with Volcarona and Gyarados. Superpower can be used instead of Fire Blast, as without it, Heatran, Terrakion, and opposing Tyranitar have free reign. Also, Blissey and Chansey can surprisingly wall Tyranitar without Superpower! In addition, this move still cover most Steel-types. However, there are many Steel-types not weak to Fighting, such as Jirachi and Scizor. A good side of Superpower is that it can help in bluffing a Choice Band set, as most CBtar use Superpower for coverage.
A Lonely nature should be used. As most of Tyranitar's weakness are commonly seen as physical moves (Earthquake, Close Combat, U-Turn, as well as priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch), a Lonely nature is the best and does not hinder Tyranitar that much. Other natures are suboptimal for a variety of reasons. Naughty, because Tyranitar needs to preserve its special bulk to tank attacks like Draco Meteor, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and even Surf. Adamant, because with a negative nature, Ice Beam fails to OHKO Landorus (even with Expert Belt). A nature that augments an stat other than Attack is also not recommended, because without an Attack-boosting nature, Tyranitar fails to OHKO 252 HP Latias with Crunch, even with Expert Belt and 252 Attack EVs. This OHKO is important because it helps in feigning a Choice Band set, which is the only common Tyranitar set that can OHKO Latias. An Expert Belt is needeed to gain the OHKO on Latias with Crunch and the OHKO on Landorus with Ice Beam.
Start of turn 12
Kill The Buzz called Hippowdon back!
Kill The Buzz sent out Latios!
Keldeo used Hydro Pump!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Latios lost 49% of its health!
The sandstorm rages.
The foe's Latios is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Vivian is buffeted by the sandstorm!
_KKuroshiro: ice perchè ridi?
Start of turn 13
CutieBoyDarkAngel called Keldeo back!
CutieBoyDarkAngel sent out Tyranitar!
The foe's Latios used Draco Meteor!
Tyranitar lost 159 HP! (41% of its health)
The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
The sandstorm rages.
The foe's Latios is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Start of turn 14
The foe's Latios used Draco Meteor!
Tyranitar lost 78 HP! (20% of its health)
The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
Tyranitar used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
The foe's Latios lost 38% of its health!
The foe's Latios fainted!
The sandstorm rages.
•Dark-Ice•: xke
Kill The Buzz sent out Landorus!
Start of turn 15
The foe's Landorus used Rock Polish!
The foe's Landorus's Speed sharply rose!
Tyranitar used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
•Dark-Ice•: voglio vedere se entri negli imperial
The foe's Landorus lost 44% of its health!
The foe's Landorus fainted!
The sandstorm rages.
Kill The Buzz: lol
Kill The Buzz sent out Jirachi!
_KKuroshiro: io ho raggiunto i 1443
CutieBoyDarkAngel: hue
PROBLEM LANDORUS?
Kill The Buzz called Hippowdon back!
Kill The Buzz sent out Latios!
Keldeo used Hydro Pump!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Latios lost 49% of its health!
The sandstorm rages.
The foe's Latios is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Vivian is buffeted by the sandstorm!
_KKuroshiro: ice perchè ridi?
Start of turn 13
CutieBoyDarkAngel called Keldeo back!
CutieBoyDarkAngel sent out Tyranitar!
The foe's Latios used Draco Meteor!
Tyranitar lost 159 HP! (41% of its health)
The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
The sandstorm rages.
The foe's Latios is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Start of turn 14
The foe's Latios used Draco Meteor!
Tyranitar lost 78 HP! (20% of its health)
The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
Tyranitar used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
The foe's Latios lost 38% of its health!
The foe's Latios fainted!
The sandstorm rages.
•Dark-Ice•: xke
Kill The Buzz sent out Landorus!
Start of turn 15
The foe's Landorus used Rock Polish!
The foe's Landorus's Speed sharply rose!
Tyranitar used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
•Dark-Ice•: voglio vedere se entri negli imperial
The foe's Landorus lost 44% of its health!
The foe's Landorus fainted!
The sandstorm rages.
Kill The Buzz: lol
Kill The Buzz sent out Jirachi!
_KKuroshiro: io ho raggiunto i 1443
CutieBoyDarkAngel: hue
PROBLEM LANDORUS?
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect/U-Turn
- Iron Head/Toxic
May not be creative, but works pretty decent for me. A mixed semi-wall. The idea is to take one hit (Physical or Special), cripple the enemy with Thunder Wave. If you're confident that you can take another hit, then you can Wish+Protect. Alternatively, as soon as you cripple your enemy with Thunder Wave, you can use U-Turn to do little damage and then bring in your appropriate counter to that Pokemon (I prefer the T-Wave & U-Turn combo). This set of Jirachi can greatly support team by spreading paralysis to your enemy while surviving through Wish. If your completely want this set to be a support set, you can run Toxic instead of Iron Head to stall out stuff.
it's the creative sets thread, not the common sets thread. the only thing even moderately original about that jirachi set is toxic slashed with iron head, which is a horrible idea because why would you be running a paraflinch jirachi without the flinch? plus double status is just inherently bad in bw since nobody switches anymore...slight exaggeration but you get my point.
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/jirachi explains why you shouldn't be running any variations on that set.
tabuu, why aerial ace over something like pursuit or bullet punch? if it's solely for abusing technician i suggest you go ahead and run swarm instead, u-turn will appreciate the power boost in odd scenarios where it'd be relevant.
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/jirachi explains why you shouldn't be running any variations on that set.
tabuu, why aerial ace over something like pursuit or bullet punch? if it's solely for abusing technician i suggest you go ahead and run swarm instead, u-turn will appreciate the power boost in odd scenarios where it'd be relevant.
Scizor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe [Feel free to invest HP from Attack]
Moveset: U-Turn | Superpower | Iron Head | Aerial Ace
Ability: Technician
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe [Feel free to invest HP from Attack]
Moveset: U-Turn | Superpower | Iron Head | Aerial Ace
Choice Scarf Scizor may not be the muscle man we all love from Choice Banded Scizor but Choice Scarf definitely brings danger to the table in its own rights. First off, the biggest boon to using Scarf Scizor is the fact that nobody sees it coming. Swords Dance and Choice Band sets are rampant and nobody looks to Scarf thinking its revenge-killing capacities are outdone by Banded Bullet Punch and other Pokemon. However Scizor is not meant to really be played as a Revenge Killer. He's meant to trap certain threats with the surprise Scarf brings to the table. For example that HP Fire Latios is a big threat to Banded Scizor. However Scarf Scizor [Let's assume Latios isn't scarfed as well] will quickly U-Turn out and decimate that threat.
Even if the novelty of Choice Scarf Scizor has worn off to your opponent, it is still VERY useful. That extra speed seriously hinders Pokemon such as Starmie, Latias and non-Scarf Latios, because a U-Turn from Scizor is looking pretty deadly. One can also opt for Bug Bite or Pursuit to ensure a kill. However, they are pretty situational and U-Turn will carry you through.
This set is very good if you want a Speedy Trapper.
Smogon analysis did your job before you!
I prefer Pursuit over Aerial Ace for the psy trapping ability. First step, bring your scizor on a resisted move ( such as Psyshock or DP), your opponent has two choices: flee away expecting a U-turn/BP or choose a second attack to kill scizor ( hp fire, hp pump). Either he chooses to switch and take double damages or he is caught by the unexpect speed of scizor. Awsome
I prefer Pursuit over Aerial Ace for the psy trapping ability. First step, bring your scizor on a resisted move ( such as Psyshock or DP), your opponent has two choices: flee away expecting a U-turn/BP or choose a second attack to kill scizor ( hp fire, hp pump). Either he chooses to switch and take double damages or he is caught by the unexpect speed of scizor. Awsome
it's the creative sets thread, not the common sets thread. the only thing even moderately original about that jirachi set is toxic slashed with iron head, which is a horrible idea because why would you be running a paraflinch jirachi without the flinch? plus double status is just inherently bad in bw since nobody switches anymore...slight exaggeration but you get my point.
This set isn't common, my input is the mixed defensive EVs and how you play it, no one really does that. The idea of this set is not to annoy people with both Para and Flinch, just to spread paralyses to support your team so that your sweeper can be aided to sweep. This just isn't the standard ParaFlinch.
Toxic may not be a choice, but its still usable. I know people don't really switch out these days, and lol, good to see you said that too. And that's not "slight" that's way too much bashing :p I get your point though, with people hating to switch plus tons of steel does kind makes less of a choice for people to use it. But really, it isn't as bad as you might be thinking >_>
EDIT: While we're on Scarf Scizor, I have one question, I know Scarf T-Tar cannot outspeed Timid Starmie, does a Scarf Jolly Scizor outspeed a Timid Starmie?
This set isn't common, my input is the mixed defensive EVs and how you play it, no one really does that. The idea of this set is not to annoy people with both Para and Flinch, just to spread paralyses to support your team so that your sweeper can be aided to sweep. This just isn't the standard ParaFlinch.
Toxic may not be a choice, but its still usable. I know people don't really switch out these days, and lol, good to see you said that too. And that's not "slight" that's way too much bashing :p I get your point though, with people hating to switch plus tons of steel does kind makes less of a choice for people to use it. But really, it isn't as bad as you might be thinking >_>
EDIT: While we're on Scarf Scizor, I have one question, I know Scarf T-Tar cannot outspeed Timid Starmie, does a Scarf Jolly Scizor outspeed a Timid Starmie?
Timid @Life Orb / Water Gem
252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Rain Dance
-Surf
A bit situational; although it can remove TTar from the game. I've used on a team with CM Latias with the aim of eliminating Tyranitar so that it can sweep later. Needs a bit of prediction: Rain dance on the switch then nail it with Surf. This can also be particularly useful on a rain team, where it can give you the edge in the weather war.
Timid @Life Orb / Water Gem
252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Rain Dance
-Surf
A bit situational; although it can remove TTar from the game. I've used on a team with CM Latias with the aim of eliminating Tyranitar so that it can sweep later. Needs a bit of prediction: Rain dance on the switch then nail it with Surf. This can also be particularly useful on a rain team, where it can give you the edge in the weather war.
Actually, you have a better chane of KOing if you just Surf on the switch instead of using Rain Dance since WG boosted Surf does a minimum of 53.36 and the second one will do a minimum of 39.63, which after Stealth Rock, is a guaranteed OHKO. Rain Dance isn't really necessary on the set, at least, it isn't needed to beat Tyranitar. Especially since, if you Rain Dance as I switch in Tyranitar, you can bet I'll be switching out immediately.
Are you sure ? Because Sandstorm boosts Sp. Def of Rock types ...
Yep, that was all calculated with the SDef boost. A rain boosted, Water Gem Surf has a 100% chance to OHKO as well, but this helps to alleviate pressure from prediction. Then again, having an extra way to set up your weather can never really hurt, so it could work.
252 SpA Water Gem Latios Surf vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 206-244 (53.36 - 63.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 138-164 (35.75 - 42.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
So add 12% from Stealth rock and that's a guaranteed OHKO.
Timid @Life Orb / Water Gem
252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Rain Dance
-Surf
A bit situational; although it can remove TTar from the game. I've used on a team with CM Latias with the aim of eliminating Tyranitar so that it can sweep later. Needs a bit of prediction: Rain dance on the switch then nail it with Surf. This can also be particularly useful on a rain team, where it can give you the edge in the weather war.
I think this is viable because one of Tyranitar's top priorities is trapping frail Psychics and Ghosts. This is great for combating Sandstorm teams.
Due to the abundance of rain teams, this could be used on a non-Politoed Rain team. Once Tyranitar is removed, Ludicolo/Kingdra/Kabutops/Seismitoad can sweep.
i don't understand why the latios set is good. if you predict the switch and rain dance as tyranitar comes in, there's three possible outcomes assuming you stay in and surf, and the opponent stays in as well. the first is that tyranitar is cb, meaning you ohko it. the second is that tyranitar is scarf, meaning it uses crunch and you die. the third is that tyranitar is specially defensive, meaning it lives your water-gem-boosted surf under rain 100% of the time and ohkos in return with crunch. (252 SpAtk Water Gem Latios Surf vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Tyranitar (+SpDef) : 82.67% - 97.52%.) that means, even if you do manage to make the correct prediction, you're still losing 2/3rds of the time. i get that it's a good cbtar killer, but it seems inferior overall to standard latios.
Actually way less than 1/3 if it all(Choice Scarf is only like 10% of usage and that's not counting the risky prediction involved with scarf tar were pursuit won't kill if it stays in and the fact that it's complete setup bait if it uses crunch) you lose, don't forget Stealth Rock. I think the purpose of the set is to be more of a momentum grabber for its fellow rain team. It seems to do that really well. A nice unconventional way to get rid of ttar for Latios' rain team. Pretty original imo.
why do you only lose 1/3rd of the time? and for that matter, why is stealth rock an assumed precondition to damage calculations? i played in today's bw tour and in 3 of the 6 games i ended up competing in, stealth rocks were never activated on one or both players' sides of the field. they're definitely not a prerequisite to bw ou battles...and even if they are up you still don't ohko sdef ttar 100% of the time. plus there's a lot of prediction involved. say you have latios out vs forretress, you expect the switch to ttar and you rain dance. instead, they predict you won't hp fire and instead volt switch, letting them in on your set plus giving them on the switch advantage. it's all a big mind game with this set and i don't like it. too much pressure is put on the latios user to make the correct prediction. finally, cbtar isn't even obligated to stay in on you, they can switch out whenever they want whereas you have pursuit to worry about. it's a win-win for the ttar user.
Stealth Rock is just that prevalent(it's usually set up in the first turn, fyi), I thought that was assumed by pretty much everyone. As for ttar switching out, I think it did its purpose(get that momentum). It forced it out and it's likely to rack up more hazard damage and leave(which further removes the need for latios to set up rain again and nab an OHKO) the sand team in an unfavorable position by potentially guaranteeing that they lose their weather starter. Yeah, it's situational, but almost everything on this thread is, lol. That's kinda the whole prospect of using "creative" sets, is take a pig plunge for a potentially huge reward.