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Project Core Analysis Workshop (Discussing Partners for Mega Sharpedo + Tank Chomp)
- Thread starter bludz
- Start date
- Status
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force / Sand Stream
Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
Most of the big threats to the core happen to be faster attackers, particualrly scarfers, and Hippowdon is pretty good at stopping them for the most part (with exception of Keldeo). And though it can get tricked a Scarf from the likes of Latios and Victini, this just means Lopunny and Gaengar will outspeed/tie with the former scarfer so this isn't exactly a bad thing in the long run. It's running a mixed defensive spread here so that it can handle Thundurus, Tornadus-T and Scarf Latios better. Stone Edge is a necessity here since you're mainly fighting back Flying types, some of which carry Taunt like Talonflame and Tornadus-T, and you can't really do that without Stone Edge. Toxic is slashed here in first becuase that enables it to handle Landorus (both formes) better, and lets it cripple swicthins like Rotom and Zapdos. Obviosuly, the core becomes very water-weak as a result, so you should pair this with a Water switchin like Starmie or Celebi, as well as Gliscor check.
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce/Earthhquake/Stone Edge
A lot of fire, ground/rock, and fighting types threaten this core, so Gyarados can do a decent job vs each threat. Dragon Dance allows Gyarados to outspeed many of the faster mons that threaten this core and KO them. Here are calcs for every one of the threats to the core that were mentioned.
Talonflame: Win
-1 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 139-165 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 338-398 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 338-398 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Alakazam: Win with Favorable Situation
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 184-217 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Alakazam: 192-226 (76.4 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Alakazam: 192-226 (76.4 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Aerodactyl: Requires Favorable Situation to Win
-1 248 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 272-324 (82.1 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Gliscor: Win
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Gliscor: 210-248 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 55-65 (16.6 - 19.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 55-65 (16.6 - 19.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Latios: Win without Hax
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 211-250 (63.7 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (loses because of spatk drop)
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-189 (48.3 - 57%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 163-193 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-189 (48.3 - 57%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 163-193 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Landorus-T: Win
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 192-228 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 270-320 (84.6 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 270-320 (84.6 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Tornadus-T: Mainly a Win
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 148-175 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 163-193 (49 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO (wins because lefties+bounce turns)
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 163-193 (49 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO (wins because lefties+bounce turns)
Thundurus-I: Loss (Doesn't need calcs I hope)
Lopunny: Win
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 141-166 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 284-336 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 284-336 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Conkeldurr: Win without Hax
-1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 100-118 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Jirachi: Win without Hax
-1 252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 97-115 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 190-225 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 190-225 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Landorus-I: Win
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 177-208 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 414-488 (129.7 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (uses DD after he takes a sludge wave)
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 414-488 (129.7 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (uses DD after he takes a sludge wave)
Keldeo: Win with Favorable Sitation
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 260-308 (78.5 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Victini: Loss because Scarf Bolt Strike
Latias: Loss because of Recover
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 248 HP / 84+ Def Mega Latias: 147-174 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 141-166 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 141-166 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 16 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 266-314 (80.3 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0- Def Mega Diancie: 260-308 (101.1 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 64 HP / 0- Def Mega Diancie: 260-308 (101.1 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise / Foul Play
Well, seeing as Latios and Mega Lopunny gives this core problems, Klefki is used to be a reliable switch-in to both of these Pokemon while also threatening them with Thunder Wave or a Super-Effective Play Rough. Hippowdon, Landorus-I and Garchomp are turned into set-up fodder for Klefki due to Magnet Rise, which allows it to set up Spikes. This makes it easier for Gengar / Mega Lop to clean-up due to the chip damage. While Klefki doesn't manage to do a lot of damage to Talonflame, Foul Play can be used to heavily damage it or Klefki can paralyze it with Thunder Wave, allowing a teammate to finish it off.
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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Rotom-W can beat Talonflame, Landorus-T, Torn-T, Mega Aerodactyl and can handle Scarf Latios, Landorus and Jirachi to an extent. It's decent for picking up momentum on most of these pokemon and getting Lopunny or Gengar in for free because of its fairly slow Volt Switches.
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Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower / Knock Off
Choice Band Azumarill is an absolutely fantastic partner to both Gengar and Mega Lopunny alike. One one hand, Azumarill absolutely loathes facing the likes of Mega Venusaur, which completely stonewalls our little water bunny. Gengar is easily able to 2HKO both offensive and defensive variants of it with it's powerful STAB moves. On the other hand, Lopunny & Azumarill soften up physical walls for each other while also forming the ever so popular bunny spam core.
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Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance/Dragon Dance
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
Most things stopping this core are weak to either water or ice. (With exceptions being Jirachi and Latios)
What do you notice about this thing's typing? It is both dark and water, meaning its STABS naturally eliminate threats to this core. It gives the core another source of priority, but also provides a set up sweeper, something this core currently lacks. This would be for a more offensive build opposed to balance, but it is a great teammate anyway.
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Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
Talonflame can handle offensive threats such as Mega Gallade, Conkeldurr, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Alakazam. It also beats scarfed mons such as Latios and Landorus-T (after an SD and some prior damage). Lopunny and Gengar help wallbreak so that Talonflame can sweep late game. Gengar beats Slowbro, and Mega Lopunny beats Tyranitar, which Talonflame hates.
Totally relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 273-322 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 244-288 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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A good partner I would suggest for this core is scarf Magnezone. It is able to beat out Banded Scizor who otherwise pursuit traps Gengar and 2HKOs Mega Lopunny with bullet punch. It also outspeeds adamant Talonflame, non-scarf Keldeo, and OHKOs them with Thunderbolt.
Calcs:
252 SpA Magnezone Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 312-368 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(This is weaker than Thunderbolt, but it gains momentum and allows you to safely bring in Gengar while guaranteeably OHKOing Talonflame in return.)
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 320-380 (99 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
also:
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
(All guaranteed OHKOs with stealth rock)
It's more likely than not going to render Scizor useless, or at least heavily weaken it for Gengar to finish.
A moveset like this should work:
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Sp. Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk, 30 Speed
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
Calcs:
252 SpA Magnezone Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 312-368 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(This is weaker than Thunderbolt, but it gains momentum and allows you to safely bring in Gengar while guaranteeably OHKOing Talonflame in return.)
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 320-380 (99 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
also:
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
(All guaranteed OHKOs with stealth rock)
It's more likely than not going to render Scizor useless, or at least heavily weaken it for Gengar to finish.
A moveset like this should work:
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Sp. Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk, 30 Speed
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
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If you want to outspeed Adamant T-Flame and non-Scarf Keldeo, use a Timid Nature instead as Magnezone needs all the speed it can get to revenge kill as efficiently as possible.
Serperior @ Coba Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Synthesis
All right, so this is a bit of a niche set, but its actually a pretty cool Tflame lure, and HP Ground/Fire aren't necessarily needed because their targets (Tran and Ferro) are handled by Gengar and M-Lop. Scizor is still kinda a problem though. Generally speaking, M-Lop takes on offense, Gengar takes on balance, Serperior takes on Stall, so yeah.
Whoops. That was a typo. I meant to write timid. Let me fix that.
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Considering that the majority of the Pokémon that are threats to Mega Lopunny and Gengar are Pokémon that are faster than the duo, i think Thundurus-I would make a decent partner for the core, thanks to Prankster Thunder Wave.
Jirachi as a Partner
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- U turn
Scarf rachi is one of the best partners for this core. The core has a common psychic weakness, and a unresisted flying weakness. Jirachi takes care of them both. It checks/counters Alakazam, Mega Aero, Gliscor, Latios, Lando-T, Torn-T, Lando-I, Conkeldurr, Diancie, Mega Latias pretty effectively. Even Thundurus-I can be killed if u are willing to sacrifice rachi, and cb talon dies to Zen Headbut. Only given partner it does not beat is Victini and well... other Jirachi. On the other hand, Mega Lop takes care of rachi's dark and ghost weakness while Gengar can switch into the ground attacks aimed at him.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- U turn
Scarf rachi is one of the best partners for this core. The core has a common psychic weakness, and a unresisted flying weakness. Jirachi takes care of them both. It checks/counters Alakazam, Mega Aero, Gliscor, Latios, Lando-T, Torn-T, Lando-I, Conkeldurr, Diancie, Mega Latias pretty effectively. Even Thundurus-I can be killed if u are willing to sacrifice rachi, and cb talon dies to Zen Headbut. Only given partner it does not beat is Victini and well... other Jirachi. On the other hand, Mega Lop takes care of rachi's dark and ghost weakness while Gengar can switch into the ground attacks aimed at him.
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Well I finally got around to updating the OP to include the previous 3 cores we fully discussed. A big thanks to Enki for providing me a cached version of the OP. Unfortunately there won't be any links with those cores to threats / partners so it's a bit incomplete but it's still nice to have :)
A reminder that today is the last day to nominate partners for this core, a new core is going up tomorrow.
A reminder that today is the last day to nominate partners for this core, a new core is going up tomorrow.
Ok thanks again everyone for your contributions. Here is the new core for this week:
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost
Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Mega Charizard X lures Heatran while also dealing with Mega Venusaur, Volcarona and Charizard Y for Serp and of course checking Scizor variants very well which can otherwise take down a weakened Serperior with Bullet Punch. Serperior beats bulky water, rock, and ground types for Charizard X such as Hippowdon, Slowbro, Tyranitar, Azumarill, Mega Diancie and also plowing through dragon type checks to Charizard X (since it is not carrying Dragon Claw) such as Latis, Dragonite, and Garchomp while also beating Rotom-W which walls this Zard X set. Glare paralyzes switch-ins like Talonflame and Tornadus-T.
Time to discuss threats to this core. Threat discussion will end on Thursday and we will begin nominating partners.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost
Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Mega Charizard X lures Heatran while also dealing with Mega Venusaur, Volcarona and Charizard Y for Serp and of course checking Scizor variants very well which can otherwise take down a weakened Serperior with Bullet Punch. Serperior beats bulky water, rock, and ground types for Charizard X such as Hippowdon, Slowbro, Tyranitar, Azumarill, Mega Diancie and also plowing through dragon type checks to Charizard X (since it is not carrying Dragon Claw) such as Latis, Dragonite, and Garchomp while also beating Rotom-W which walls this Zard X set. Glare paralyzes switch-ins like Talonflame and Tornadus-T.
Time to discuss threats to this core. Threat discussion will end on Thursday and we will begin nominating partners.
DDD Mega Altaria please :D
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Aqua Tail
- Roost
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 150-177 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 213-251 (70.7 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 308-366 (95.3 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
So, can switch in on any move from Charizard-X and is likely to OHKO back.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 200-238 (66.4 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 282-332 (96.9 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Once again, switches into Leaf Storm from full, and always OHKOs back after LO damage.
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Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
Back to back weeks of Talonflame, what do ya know. Serperior allows Talonflame to come in virtually for free. None of Serperior's coverage moves are effective off the bat and Serperior gets picked off by Brave Bird the next turn. Even Glare really doesn't hurt too much because neither of these two are priority attackers. Char-X has 75% chance to be OHKO by +2 Brave Bird, so not exactly a solid answer there.
Everything is Talon weak plz ban.
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Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
Scarf Latios, while uncommon, is a potent revenge killer of both pokemon in this core. Mega Charizard X gets revenge killed even at +1 and Serperior is KO'd after switching into rocks twice, or usually KO'd after one rocks switch-in and one round of LO recoil. The third slot on Latios is really just filler, you can slap on things from Surf to Memento (Although the latter should definitely not be used against Serperior).
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