Pokémon Cloyster

[Assertingfire3]

Aegislash is just going to troll Cloyster with King's Shield if you attempt to use Razor Shell on it.
It's best to go for the 2HKO with Icicle Spear and leave that moveslot for Ice Shard.

Your right about aegislash trolling you with king shield but even if you attack with icicle spear you're still beaten.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 160-195 (49.3 - 60.1%) -- approx. 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While aegislash will just sacred sword then shadow sneak leaving cloyster ko.

 

[lalala45]

Maybe this is why I like barbaracle as a shell smasher much better, he's much stronger so that way he can kill a lot more things.

AND HE GETS EARTHQUAKE.

if only he had glasses to hit those moves when I need them to hit.

 

[Assertingfire3]

Maybe this is why I like barbaracle as a shell smasher much better, he's much stronger so that way he can kill a lot more things.

AND HE GETS EARTHQUAKE.

if only he had glasses to hit those moves when I need them to hit.

But that skill link stab icicle spear is really going to be missed if you use barbaracle.

+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 290-342 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

And its still likely you will be checked, but it is admitily harder for aegislash to check barbaracle. Earthquake will also activate weakness policy if aegislash is holding one.

 

[lalala45]

Thats why I run life orb on my barbaracle (because then it ohkos), to reach the most damage possible. :)

I think I like life orb on my sweepers too much.

 

[Assertingfire3]

Thats why I run life orb on my barbaracle (because then it ohkos), to reach the most damage possible. :)

I think I like life orb on my sweepers too much.

So do i recoil less life orb magic gaurd clefable for the win! But barabarcle has a glaring 4x gras weakness in a metagame where mega venusaur roams. Now lets stop getting distracted and start discussing cloyster again. So the general consensus is running ice shard over razor shell right?

 

[lalala45]

Eh, I don't know it seems 50/50 right now. I still think razor shell is needed for not being laughed at by steels and water is a really good offensive stab anyway. Ice shard is not powerful enough to kill most priority users.

Natural gift idea is still a good idea I think.

 

[Assertingfire3]

Eh, I don't know it seems 50/50 right now. I still think razor shell is needed for not being laughed at by steels and water is a really good offensive stab anyway. Ice shard is not powerful enough to kill most priority users.

Natural gift idea is still a good idea I think.

I'm with you in thinking razor shell is better but ice shard is useful, and to me natural gift seems gimmicky sure you can attack with a pretty much 80bp hidden power but once used your item less and have a move wasting a move slot.

 

[lalala45]

I'm with you in thinking razor shell is better but ice shard is useful, and to me natural gift seems gimmicky sure you can attack with a pretty much 80bp hidden power but once used your item less and have a move wasting a move slot.

With liechi berry its a 100 bp grass move which is cool. I think natural gift is suited for those with a good offensive stab combo like water/ice, fire/flying, so that way even though you used the one timer, you can still sweep.

 

[Assertingfire3]

With liechi berry its a 100 bp grass move which is cool. I think natural gift is suited for those with a good offensive stab combo like water/ice, fire/flying, so that way even though you used the one timer, you can still sweep.

Liechi berry makes the base power 80bp not 100bp. Also if your holding a useless berry you cant hold focus sash, life orb, mystic water, nevermeltice, or kings rock which are superior options. Another thing natural gift is once use only after that your done. Why have two attacks and an attack you can use once. When you can have three attacks that can be used multiple times. And if the pokemon you attack sutvives your still walled. And if it dies congratulations you ko the first counter now ko next oh wait you can't you already used natural gift once before. Sorry if this sounds rude but i can see no use for a move such as natural gift. I guess it can be used a last resort move, but there is most likely a much better option.

 

[sparktrain]

All in all, Cloyster just needs more support from its partners than it did in BW. Natural Gift can potentially help you get by a check/counter once, in exchange for not running a much more useful item and only having two other offensive moves to use. This spreads Cloyster's talents too thin in my opinion, and it should stick to what it does best, Shell Smashing and getting great damage off on non-Steels. Leave the supporting to Cloyster's team mates; it'll just become an inferior version of itself if it tries to do everything.

 

[Idyll]

Guys, you shouldn't really be staying in on an Aegislash. For one, it has Shadow Ball. With Cloyster's (lowered) Special Defense you're probably gonna get KO'd in one shot. Observe:

252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 268-316 (110.7 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO - This is Aegis' most notable set on the ladder.
252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 178-211 (73.5 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - This is when you haven't set up yet.

Another thing, you can't give major hurt for the most part. Razor Shell hits 55% max; Hydro Pump less so. That alone lets you get hit to die. It doesn't matter whether you pack Hydro or Razor for Aegis. You still lose anyway. So yeah, if you want to sweep with this thing, you need a reliable answer for Aegis (and Steels in general).

___________

Ice Shard has its uses. One thing is you won't get picked off as easily by priority. Another thing is it's a good way to check fast dragons, although Mamoswine outclasses it in that job. In my opinion, coverage on Cloyster is not something to pass up.

 

[Assertingfire3]

Guys, you shouldn't really be staying in on an Aegislash. For one, it has Shadow Ball. With Cloyster's (lowered) Special Defense you're probably gonna get KO'd in one shot. Observe:

252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 268-316 (110.7 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO - This is Aegis' most notable set on the ladder.
252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 178-211 (73.5 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - This is when you haven't set up yet.

Another thing, you can't give major hurt for the most part. Razor Shell hits 55% max; Hydro Pump less so. That alone lets you get hit to die. It doesn't matter whether you pack Hydro or Razor for Aegis. You still lose anyway. So yeah, if you want to sweep with this thing, you need a reliable answer for Aegis (and Steels in general).

___________

Ice Shard has its uses. One thing is you won't get picked off as easily by priority. Another thing is it's a good way to check fast dragons, although Mamoswine outclasses it in that job. In my opinion, coverage on Cloyster is not something to pass up.

I completely agree, steel types in general are the bain of its existance, unless packing razor shell you are not likely muscle pass. Another thing thats annoying is that even with magnezone to handle steels, aegislash is ghost type meaning its immune to trapping.

 

[Der Richter]

What do you think is the actual avaiability of Cloy in this gen? I'm using the standard Shell Smash lately, and still makes wonders. Actually with investment he's faster than you would think; sometimes, when didn't feel enough safe for set up, I went for an attack, moving surprisingly first!
The best check to him (beside Aegi, but you already talked enough about it) that I found is Vaporeon, that even at +2 doesn't give a shit about Rock Blast. Probably Skarmory is even better at this. But many many offensive mons get wrecked badly.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Just throwing out some calcs:

Defensive Calcs:

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252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 134-162 (55.3 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 132-156 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 196-231 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 192-226 (79.3 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 211-249 (87.1 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 144-170 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 144-171 (59.5 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Aggron Iron Head vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 115-136 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 172-203 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 160-189 (66.1 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 178-211 (73.5 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 153-181 (63.2 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 144-169 (59.5 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive Calcs:

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252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Dragonite: 280-340 (86.4 - 104.9%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 245-290 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latias: 280-340 (76.9 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 335-395 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- approx. 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 150-180 (42.6 - 51.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Offensive threat calcs are dissapointing, but the defensive calcs are ammazing considering the -1 defense drop.

 

[Der Richter]

Well, yeah, that offensive calculations are quite lame, but besides Dragonite and maybe Latios they're all mons against which Cloyster shouldn't set up, or even show his face. I usually bring him in mid game, when some damage has already been done, but if some of the above mentioned walls is present, I wait till they're decently weakened.

Besides, Klefki and Cloy are bff, compensating some of their weaknesses, and the former giving support, making much easier for the latter to set up.